The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[afaceinthecrowd]

this is a listing question, so watch yourself

define the word "game"

What game are you playing?

(this can be dynamite)

If you understand "game" there are known opponents, playing field, positive scores, penalties, your identity in the game, teammates, and much more.


We could be prosaic and say someone is playing the game of 1950s housewife. She would dress appropriately, please her husband, get her hair done, keep the kids in control, etc. If she was losing at the game, she might be drinking a few too many at lunch.

We could say the game of "messiah" There have been a number of people who tried out for this game. You can name them, as well as I. How did they do?


To define your game you need to know where your goal posts are located. Did you score when you helped someone? Or did you score when you put order into chaos. Perhaps when you read a book and learned to apply something that you read.

The game flows from your personal primal dichotomy. If you value knowledge over stupidity the highest, that would be a primary dichotomy. Or love over individuation or order over chaos.

What are you trying to accomplish in your game?

If anyone winds up in a mess because of this post, please PM me, and we'll fix you up.

From the overall picture of the game, then you fill in milestones and wins and losses.

Remember, it is the journey, not the destination.

A good game lasts for millennia.

This lifetime games last only for this lifetime. Find the bigger picture, then re create the smaller foci.

Oh Damn...Damn...dammit...this is good...this is gooder than gooder's good.

You'll prob'ly be gettin' a PM from me in a week or two once I start messin' 'round with this and wind up in my customary mess...I'm pretty much most the time a train wreck still headin' down the tracks, anyway.

Oh Damn...Damn...dammit...

Face

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

For the record...

this is a listing question, so watch yourself

define the word "game"

What game are you playing?

(this can be dynamite)

If you understand "game" there are known opponents, playing field, positive scores, penalties, your identity in the game, teammates, and much more.


We could be prosaic and say someone is playing the game of 1950s housewife. She would dress appropriately, please her husband, get her hair done, keep the kids in control, etc. If she was losing at the game, she might be drinking a few too many at lunch.

We could say the game of "messiah" There have been a number of people who tried out for this game. You can name them, as well as I. How did they do?


To define your game you need to know where your goal posts are located. Did you score when you helped someone? Or did you score when you put order into chaos. Perhaps when you read a book and learned to apply something that you read.

The game flows from your personal primal dichotomy. If you value knowledge over stupidity the highest, that would be a primary dichotomy. Or love over individuation or order over chaos.

What are you trying to accomplish in your game?

If anyone winds up in a mess because of this post, please PM me, and we'll fix you up.

From the overall picture of the game, then you fill in milestones and wins and losses.

Remember, it is the journey, not the destination.

A good game lasts for millennia.

This lifetime games last only for this lifetime. Find the bigger picture, then re create the smaller foci.

I'm fine with this CarmelO - and it gives me support and a more solid base from which to perhaps operate and expand/expound a bit.

EP

 

[FoTi]

this is a listing question, so watch yourself

define the word "game"

What game are you playing?

(this can be dynamite)

If you understand "game" there are known opponents, playing field, positive scores, penalties, your identity in the game, teammates, and much more.


We could be prosaic and say someone is playing the game of 1950s housewife. She would dress appropriately, please her husband, get her hair done, keep the kids in control, etc. If she was losing at the game, she might be drinking a few too many at lunch.

We could say the game of "messiah" There have been a number of people who tried out for this game. You can name them, as well as I. How did they do?


To define your game you need to know where your goal posts are located. Did you score when you helped someone? Or did you score when you put order into chaos. Perhaps when you read a book and learned to apply something that you read.

The game flows from your personal primal dichotomy. If you value knowledge over stupidity the highest, that would be a primary dichotomy. Or love over individuation or order over chaos.

What are you trying to accomplish in your game?

If anyone winds up in a mess because of this post, please PM me, and we'll fix you up.

From the overall picture of the game, then you fill in milestones and wins and losses.

Remember, it is the journey, not the destination.

A good game lasts for millennia.

This lifetime games last only for this lifetime. Find the bigger picture, then re create the smaller foci.

Thanks Carmelo. Hmmmm......let's see now.....which soup shall I fall in this time?

 

[lkwdblds]

Well, when you put it that way, I'll reconsider....

Lakey,

You didn’t do anything wrong re: the SO. I t was just part of your path. Often, IMO, our paths are not manifest and, often, are not well lit, nor marked.

There is no one but you that could have created this thread…and you would not be here with all of us, for all of us, as you are, at this moment in time, if you had not walked your path.

There exist not the words with which I can thank you properly.

Face

Uh, er a I er uh, gulp, I don't know what to say, Face. The thing that comes to mind is kind of corny but... God Bless You! Carmelo called me yesterday while I was out and left a message that Mike Horton blew out on this thread yesterday and now you come up with this!

I would endure a dozen demotions by Don Keeler, being passed up for 50 promotions by Yvonne, having Kitty Georgius be my boss for a 100 years and have Sandy Wilhere rip up my correct why finding 2 dozen times to contribute in some way in helping guys such as you, Mike Horton and Gary York but especially you Face due to your unique contributions to the LRH and Apollo portions of this thread and your special personal story of overcoming brain damage which was thought to be not overcomeable.

I was right for resuming the Apollo thread in October 2009 after it had sat idle since March. I thought there would be some really good interest in the CCLA portion of my story. As I say, my goal was to hit 10,000 views and maybe make a personal friend or two from those who wrote replies. Never in my wildest imagination did I imagine that writing a thread could lead to so many wins, from making case gain, to making new friends, to having a video on youtube but those all pale to being able to entertain and then cause case gain for others and give hope to others, some very special others at that.

None of this would have ever happened had I not thrown in with Ron and make a major attempt to play his game in order to help others and myself. So as you point out Face, this must have been my destiny, to find LRH and throw in with him and his bunch of boys and girls and believe we were saving a planet.

Thirty seven years later I do end up helping others and also getting help myself by starting this thread and participating very diligently on it with my incomparable associates, Carmelo and Sweetness and the huge cast of all stars whom we have assembled.

One thing about helping others move forward, it has got to be the real game where everyone wins, you never go wrong when you do that, so like Carmelo, two posts up, and Face one post up, I will join them wiping away a tear and march forward knowing that the Sea Org was my destiny and that the world is a wee bit better in that one guy experienced the Sea Org life and got out and still had enough in him to tell his story for the benefit of others. I think the pretty blond auditor who Carmelo pictured above would be happy to know that a guy she audited for over 300 hours ended up being able to give help to some very fine people later on in his life. Now if you will excuse me, my TA is Floating and I am going to go out and enjoy this new state of awareness.
Lakey

 

[thetanic]

What game are you playing?

Artsy geek.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I meant a "Golden Age" for being in Scientology, relatively speaking. I have no desire to go back into Scn. I'm doing quite OK right now, oldest has graduated college and is going to grad school.

re: golden age of education, it's happening behind the scenes. We homeschool, and there are more and more resources coming available.

When were you involved?

many people I know have home schooled.

with all the governmental rules binding schools hands, there has to be an alternative that will catch on.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Mooning Amtrak in Laguna Niguel

Stop the presses!

Our OC representative has been inattentive to the news from Orange Count, CA. Lakey, go stand in the corner. Why weren't you here reporting on this breaking news story?


So it’s Sunday, and time for a bit of silliness, and where better to find it than here in California.

This story comes from the BBC website where I am sure they are certain, after reading this, that many of the people in this state are completely gone, with no chance of return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Q-WP51nC8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zvtWqtcY9w&feature=related[BBC]

The southern Californian city of Laguna Niguel has been enjoying an annual ritual, in which locals and visitors bare their bottoms at passing trains.

For 30 years, the city has hosted “Mooning Amtrak” as crowds line up along the railway tracks, dropping their trousers when a train passes by.

Up to 10,000 people take part, and visitors are encouraged to leave their cars at home and arrive by train.

Local legend has it the tradition began in 1979, after a bar room bet.

A drinker at the Mugs Away Saloon, which stands directly across the road from the railway, offered to buy a drink for anyone who would run outside and moon at the next train.

One customer took him at his word, and a ritual was born.

Each year the event grows, with crowds swelled by word of mouth and enthusiastic reports from radio DJs on local radio stations.

There were reports in 2008 of surging crowds and drunkenness, and police and a helicopter were called in from neighbouring towns to maintain order.

Last year the city, which lies in Orange County between Los Angeles and San Diego, decided enough was enough.

“Avoid the area this year,” the city warned on its website home page. It added in a breezy Twitter feed that the city was “saying ‘NO’ to crack”.

Moon Amtrak enthusiasts were not impressed.

Mugs Away regular Rick Sanchez blamed a “stuffy, yuppie mayor” who had “never even been to a mooning”, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The event even has its own website, this year proudly headed “31st Annual Mooning of Amtrak”. It also promoted a newer offshoot: “5th Annual Mooning of Metrolink”.

It features directions to Camino Capistrano, the road where trousers and dignity are dropped each year, and helpfully lists train times through the day, so that people can schedule their disrobing.

And after 8pm, there is night mooning. “Bring a flash light with plenty of batteries, or better yet, bring a camping lantern,” the website advises.

There is even a “Frequently Asked Questions” section for mooning debutantes. “Can I decorate my butt?” is one FAQ.

Yes, that’s OK, apparently.

 

[RogerB]

this is a listing question, so watch yourself

define the word "game"

What game are you playing?

(this can be dynamite)

If you understand "game" there are known opponents, playing field, positive scores, penalties, your identity in the game, teammates, and much more.


We could be prosaic and say someone is playing the game of 1950s housewife. She would dress appropriately, please her husband, get her hair done, keep the kids in control, etc. If she was losing at the game, she might be drinking a few too many at lunch.

We could say the game of "messiah" There have been a number of people who tried out for this game. You can name them, as well as I. How did they do?


To define your game you need to know where your goal posts are located. Did you score when you helped someone? Or did you score when you put order into chaos. Perhaps when you read a book and learned to apply something that you read.

The game flows from your personal primal dichotomy. If you value knowledge over stupidity the highest, that would be a primary dichotomy. Or love over individuation or order over chaos.

What are you trying to accomplish in your game?

If anyone winds up in a mess because of this post, please PM me, and we'll fix you up.

From the overall picture of the game, then you fill in milestones and wins and losses.

Remember, it is the journey, not the destination.

A good game lasts for millennia.

This lifetime games last only for this lifetime. Find the bigger picture, then re create the smaller foci.

Yes, this is an important question/process.

It is one of the questions in Alan's "Vital Fundamentals One Process R/D"

Ideally, when you get the most right answer, it will be an ongoing expression of your Prime Dream and Aspiration (or main goal).

However, there is a nuance here that I would introduce.

As CarmelO has rightly noted, and often, the lead auditor for Alan (Eric W) produced a lot of "out lists." There is a probable reason for this.

In my view, it occurred because the folks who ended up with "out lists" were hung up in the LRH/Scn notion that one had to/should get the most right, truthful, and ultimate item of your existence on the subject being listed. And that, of course, is a tall order. A very tall order.

A more truthful and workable approach to resolving one's case is to recognize that there are quite a number of "right items" to a listing question such as, "What game are you playing?"

The key to it is to recognize the right items . . . note the plural. Don't limit yourself.

What comes off by listing in this manner are the lock items (this notion existed in '62 in Scn listing tech) and also the various expressions of the basic most true item that have existed since it all began. It is to be noted that these are all "right items" . . . just that they apply where and when they apply

The trick to dealing with this then, is to recognize the relative validity of "items" as they come off, certainly don't invalidate them, but also to align them as to their relative applicability and position on the case in PT.

Example. I have recently been running Games Matrices. Don't expect to get the most right, perfect item in the universe first up in listing for the key identities on that. The trick is to get right items that are charged that you can run/process . . . that is, they are right enough to work with . . . and as you process them and lift off the charge in the area, eventually you get to the underlying REAL truth and right answer.

The trick is to recognize you're on the correct gradient of truth to getting the most right, perfect answer; and use the answer you have to progress toward the ultimate.

Don't sell yourself short with the notion that there is only one right answer There are many gradients of "right."

RogerB

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Something reassuring...

...snip...

None of this would have ever happened had I not thrown in with Ron and make a major attempt to play his game in order to help others and myself. So as you point out Face, this must have been my destiny, to find LRH and throw in with him and his bunch of boys and girls and believe we were saving a planet.

Thirty seven years later I do end up helping others and also getting help myself by starting this thread and participating very diligently on it with my incomparable associates, Carmelo and Sweetness and the huge cast of all stars whom we have assembled.

One thing about helping others move forward, it has got to be the real game where everyone wins, you never go wrong when you do that, so like Carmelo, two posts up, and Face one post up, I will join them wiping away a tear and march forward knowing that the Sea Org was my destiny and that the world is a wee bit better in that one guy experienced the Sea Org life and got out and still had enough in him to tell his story for the benefit of others. I think the pretty blond auditor who Carmelo pictured above would be happy to know that a guy she audited for over 300 hours ended up being able to give help to some very fine people later on in his life. Now if you will excuse me, my TA is Floating and I am going to go out and enjoy this new state of awareness.
Lakey

I saw Ed Ames in "Man of La Mancha" around 1968 or '69 at the outdoor "Starlight Theatre" in Kansas City... a terrific, moving performance which I still remember well. I was with my wonderful first wife and close friends fondly remembered still. That first marriage was where the lack of ability to handle the "freedoms of marriage" began to manifest and cause the erosions that eventually brought it to ruin.... interesting, huh?

For whatever reasons my attention flashed to the lyrics of "The Impossible Dream" and this came up on my 1st youtube search. Ed still sounded damn fine 40 years later, didn't he?

A fair few of us here on this thread and ESMB message board are of that generation and "goin' strong" still.

More later,

EP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u28SgvxIWK8

 

[Ted]

Yes, this is an important question/process.

It is one of the questions in Alan's "Vital Fundamentals One Process R/D"

Ideally, when you get the most right answer, it will be an ongoing expression of your Prime Dream and Aspiration (or main goal).

However, there is a nuance here that I would introduce.

As CarmelO has rightly noted, and often, the lead auditor for Alan (Eric W) produced a lot of "out lists." There is a probable reason for this.

In my view, it occurred because the folks who ended up with "out lists" were hung up in the LRH/Scn notion that one had to/should get the most right, truthful, and ultimate item of your existence on the subject being listed. And that, of course, is a tall order. A very tall order.

A more truthful and workable approach to resolving one's case is to recognize that there are quite a number of "right items" to a listing question such as, "What game are you playing?"

The key to it is to recognize the right items . . . note the plural. Don't limit yourself.

What comes off by listing in this manner are the lock items (this notion existed in '62 in Scn listing tech) and also the various expressions of the basic most true item that have existed since it all began. It is to be noted that these are all "right items" . . . just that they apply where and when they apply

The trick to dealing with this then, is to recognize the relative validity of "items" as they come off, certainly don't invalidate them, but also to align them as to their relative applicability and position on the case in PT.

Example. I have recently been running Games Matrices. Don't expect to get the most right, perfect item in the universe first up in listing for the key identities on that. The trick is to get right items that are charged that you can run/process . . . that is, they are right enough to work with . . . and as you process them and lift off the charge in the area, eventually you get to the underlying REAL truth and right answer.

The trick is to recognize you're on the correct gradient of truth to getting the most right, perfect answer; and use the answer you have to progress toward the ultimate.

Don't sell yourself short with the notion that there is only one right answer There are many gradients of "right."

RogerB

Right on, Roger!

Good to see you posting here again.

It seems to me that context is the unspoken, missing aspect of scn processing. Playing off another ESMB thread that popped up recently, LRH did not explicitly say, "I write the songs the whole world sings. And you? You sing!"

Facts and truths are not necessarily facts or truths outside the context to which they apply. In auditing, LRH and the auditor supply the hypothesis, the pc/client is expected to supply personal investigation and context. It is assumed by the participants that the hypothesis is always correct. The pc/client "sings." His F/N, cog, VGI's serve as verification of the correctness of the hypothesis.

In that sense, "Why do pigs fly?" will give any pc/client susceptible to such a question his F/N, cog, VGI's, and having attained that venerated triad after some exhaustion of time, energy, spirit, and finance, the truth that pigs fly will cement in place.

There can be one right item, just as there can be one specific time, form, place, event, terminal, etc. for the pc. As life goes on outside of session, the context of the pc's life changes. Then, a formerly right item becomes a wrong item, perhaps, again, and again. I have had it happen. I have seen it happen.

For example, scientology is a right item for many, in the beginning, later to become a wrong item because the context of the pc's life and the scientology experience changes. And we know that when a being runs a wrong item, well, the session or life can just suck.

Many years ago I consulted a doctor who, in his heart of hearts wanted to be a magician. Imagine that. Doctor is a very right item for many. A lot of people never make it. He actually made the grade, yet he was miserable.

Your advice to get the rightest item available then work with that is a very workable solution. The LRH solution of repair, making the tech right, fixed, and inflexible, while making both pc and auditor wrong, is not the best of solutions. Here I am thinking of the LRH brag about a Class 12 being able to assess a list getting reads where an auditor from a lower org got none. Well that might be the auditor's fault, it might also be due to the changed context of the pc's life and auditing environment.

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks EP for this inspirational video!

Thanks EP for your fine post and inspirational video. Its funny that when Heber Jentzsch married Yvonne in 1972 he sang that song at his wedding. I did not attend the wedding but heard him practice it over and over the week prior to the wedding. I Googled Ed Ames and see he is still alive at age 83.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

Speaking of Ed Ames and children of the '50s and '60s, I was watching TV the night this event took place. Funniest damn thing I had ever seen on TV. Just shows you how times have changed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUQ3qnwCFU

 

[lkwdblds]

Roger, nice post, very apropriate as to timing.

Thanks Roger for the valuable tech contained in your post!

The last official auditing I ever got was in 1993 at AOLA from Denise Mulkey, a crackerjack auditor who also had run me on NOTS. I was having business and marital problems (what else is new?) and I was C/Sed to run the Disagreement Rundown.

Deep into the intensive an item which I disageed with arose. It had to do with me coming into my Dad's construction business TO HELP HIM OUT. Instead of allowing me to help him out, after a year or two of grooming me, he decided, probably subconsciously, to do a HAT DUMP and force me to take over his business by just neglecting the things he was supposed to do.

At the time, I had two areas of skill, Scientific Computer programming for aeospace corpotations, 9 years of that, plus nearly a Full Hat in Scientology Treasury Division. only 2 years in that but they were a very intensive 2 years. I knew nothing of construction and did not consider myself fit to run a construction company and manage all those workers and subcontractors.

I was listing with Denise on disagreeing with my job and an item came up. I don't remember the wording but it concerned being the victim of a Hat Dump by my Dad, and ending up having to run a construction company. We took up this heavily charged button and shortly, I muttered something under my breath and my whole space altered, it was like an earthquake inside my mind. Denise asked, "What did you just say" and I answered, never mind, let's move on, its not that important. Denise looked up and said, "Lakey, your TA just blew down 5 dials, and is still blowing down, tell me what you just muttered under your breath."

I said to her, "I am not an E.D. type person, I am supposed to work as the back up to the E.D." "I would never be Simon Bolivar but I WOULD BE one of Simon Bolivars top aides!" I resent the fact that my Dad dumped his hat on me and now I am the E.D. (Executive Director) of his friggin stupid construction company and I am not suited for this job, I should be doing something else! She said that my TA was floating and we would be ending off. As I stood up and walked back to the waiting room, my entire space had shifted and I was looking at things from a different angle, a different perspective.

I was puzzled because it was such a big win and yet it led me to be a smaller being and avoid being an Executive Director. I longed for my comfort zone, where I could be a top advisor to the Big Honcho who was runing the show. I have never been able to secure this type of job in this life.

Roger, your post help me sort this thing out, because I erroneously was looking for one huge button which would free me into my proper game and though this win was huge, it did not do that.

I can see immediately that both the Sea Org and my Dad, made decisions for me preventing me from playing the game I was good at and forcing me to play their games instead. The Sea Org decides where one is needed and never consults the Sea Org member to find out what area that person would like to go into. By doing this they are operating under a deadly false datum, originated by LRH, that a Sea Org member can do any post he or she is assigned to. Ron asserts, "No Case on Post" and the Sea Org Members necessity level rises up to the level where he has no case on post.

There are so many holes in this logic that I would be willing to take LRH on in a debate concerning this and I am 100% confident that I, or any body else who could think straight, would easily defeat LRH in the debate. If his point of view was true, why not just say that ones post was "Life" or to "Live a productive and successful Life." Then just apply "No Case on Post" and "A Sea Org member can do any Job Assigned" and "Make it go Right" and one could save $300,000 or $400,000 and 1000's of hours of time in getting auditing. Hatting Colleges could be closed down for that matter.

SUMMARY If and when I resume audting or Knowledgism or Idenics or some other form of self betterment, I now have an item to shoot for, thanks to Rog's post. I need to do more of that Disagreement Rundown, peel off more layers of charge and find out ultimately what my true game is!

Another cognition on this area, that late 18th century life where I was a singer in operettas and operas and also composed a bit myself was the last time I had a job where I consulted with the top brass of my organization. Schikaneder consulted with me and other key members of his troupe as to various things to try in our productions so as to make them more popular. He would consult us about set design, costumes, props and other non musical topics and we could even give him suggestions about altering his story lines but he seldom acted on them. In 1789, Schikaneder rekindled his friendship with Mozart, whom he had met about 10 years earlier when the Schikaneder troupe was performing Shakespeare on tour in Salzburg. Much to my surprise, Mozart sought me out and asked me for my advice regarding his new opera,"The Magic Flute". being done in conjenction with Schikaneder. By seeking my advice, that great man forever endeared himself to me.
That life was once a 70% / 30% proposition, 70% chance of being true and 30% chance of being dub in or delusion. Right now, the ratios are about 96% to 4%. As I have various cognitions more and more detail is filling in about that life. The memories are now exactly the same as early memories from this life so far as depth of details, emotions and perceptions.

Lakey

 

[RogerB]

Right on, Roger!

Thanks, Ted. Yes, it is "right on." I'll give an example below of how this worked out with a client of mine this last couple of weeks.

Good to see you posting here again.

Thanks. I nearly didn't come back. Who needs abuse for gifts given? Who needs to be lied about? But the fact is, this issue opened up by CarmelO on the question: "What game are you playing?" is one that has to be gotten right. Folks could get right hung up not knowing they actually have gradients of the "right" item answer to the question. And the other fact, based on observation, is that folks do not get the real, true, basic basic, rightest possible absolute answer to that question too easily. It takes a little time and processing to get to it. But when you have it, it is worth having.

It seems to me that context is the unspoken, missing aspect of scn processing. Playing off another ESMB thread that popped up recently, LRH did not explicitly say, "I write the songs the whole world sings. And you? You sing!"

Facts and truths are not necessarily facts or truths outside the context to which they apply. In auditing, LRH and the auditor supply the hypothesis, the pc/client is expected to supply personal investigation and context. It is assumed by the participants that the hypothesis is always correct. The pc/client "sings." His F/N, cog, VGI's serve as verification of the correctness of the hypothesis.

In that sense, "Why do pigs fly?" will give any pc/client susceptible to such a question his F/N, cog, VGI's, and having attained that venerated triad after some exhaustion of time, energy, spirit, and finance, the truth that pigs fly will cement in place.

There can be one right item, just as there can be one specific time, form, place, event, terminal, etc. for the pc. As life goes on outside of session, the context of the pc's life changes. Then, a formerly right item becomes a wrong item, perhaps, again, and again. I have had it happen. I have seen it happen.

For example, scientology is a right item for many, in the beginning, later to become a wrong item because the context of the pc's life and the scientology experience changes. And we know that when a being runs a wrong item, well, the session or life can just suck.

Many years ago I consulted a doctor who, in his heart of hearts wanted to be a magician. Imagine that. Doctor is a very right item for many. A lot of people never make it. He actually made the grade, yet he was miserable.

Your advice to get the rightest item available then work with that is a very workable solution. The LRH solution of repair, making the tech right, fixed, and inflexible, while making both pc and auditor wrong, is not the best of solutions. Here I am thinking of the LRH brag about a Class 12 being able to assess a list getting reads where an auditor from a lower org got none. Well that might be the auditor's fault, it might also be due to the changed context of the pc's life and auditing environment.

As an example of how correct you are above, let me relate to you what a client/friend of mine went through recently. I seldom actually take him into session for actual processing. It only infrequently happens if he needs something very special beyond his skill level or if a correcting action is needed, or such. Basically, I am coaching and training him to be fully responsible for his case and to solo process it all. Thus he comes see me each week and we go over his actions and I case advise and coach him.

So, the example, and the actual case issue we handled.

He'd been continuously colliding with fears of failure and difficulty having the high level of success he envisioned and wanted. The recent economic woes didn't help and were highly triggering to him. He's in the selling of capital equipment business, and concurrently trying to set up a business of his own.

So, over a period of time, and after bleeding off various issues of charge and difficulty in his day to day living this following became a sequence of case advancing handling:

Eventually, we got to the point of asking him "What beingness or identity do you go into are are created as when . . . . (here was stated the circumstance he was effect of)?"

The answer that was real to him, and highly charged, was an identity/Beingness that expressed a level on the spectrum of existence between being a success versus a failure. I forget the actual item, but for example it was something like: "A failing entrepreneur."

Now, the thing to know about this, is that that is an expression of existence (his existence and being) that fits somewhere on the scale between success and failure.

What I didn't at that moment tell him was that the rightest item, and the item he was not able to get at yet, was at the top of the scale at "Success" . . . . for the truth is, that is the item underlying all of the case difficulty he was having. It is the basic item/goal/identity he created that began the game . . . which game got screwed and sent him down tone into all the subsequent alterations of the "real deal."

So, we had a right item, and a highly charged item; the handling of which was to run Alan's identity handling "Presence 3" process. He took off and ran it solo during the week before his next visit.

The process ran fantastically well and to huge gains.

Now, what you folks might not have spotted above is that what we'd actually tapped into was a Games Matrix. My client was to a large degree aware of that fact, but not up to addressing such at that stage. He was simply very happy to get off what ever charge he could get off.

When I saw him next, I observed he was ready to take on the case at the next higher level . . . that is, to address and take off the charge of the highest, most right (as yet undiscovered) item.

Of course, the most right items on any subject on the case are positive items . . . the items that lie at the beginnings of your games (unless you think you are an evil son of a bitch who begins all your games based on a negative or evil intention/goal)

So, in order to move my client into that area of charge and item I asked the following question (this with me in coaching mode, not in formal session): "What is the underlying intention or goal you have in this area (that got charged)?"

He came up with an item in the vein of, "To be a successful business man." As he got it, it turned on heavy manifestations of charge. It was hot. Next C/S for him was to do Alan's "Charge Handling Process R/D" on it. (Which he again handled solo at home)

Note now, we are removing charge off of the hot positive item! We are no longer dealing with or addressing the victimish "failure" stuff.

Next meeting the client reports huge gains and wins, and "feeling better about succeeding/being successful."

Now we were ready for the really hot stuff

Roger's next question of client: "What's the underlying identity or Beingness you created or use to play this game of being a successful businessman?"

He actually "listed off," noted several (candidate/potentials). So I told him to take his time. Get on the meter, and locate the most right item/identity and run "Presence 3" on it.

And I also gave him some tech advice to go along with the action. I told him to be alert to the phenomena, that when he is running the "Presence 3" on the high level positive identity, what he will likely, possibly, become aware of is how it declined down the mood/tone scale as the game changed through time. So I warned him to note it, and any lower level/lower mood scale identities that come to view.

Ideally, one can spot in this manner the lowest level negative identity of the Game and Matrix.

Cut the long story short, when seen next my client had successfully accomplished the following:
1) he got and ran a huge, right item, and while running it, he
2) discovered and opened up a spectrum of descending and gradient degrees of lesser success down through degrees of increasing failure, and these expressed as identities/Beingness for him.
3) he completed the Presence 3 on the identity he originally found as the top positive, but what it led to was the discovery of an even higher, more right . . . indeed the absolutely most right item on this subject/area of his existence.

When I saw him last Wednesday, he was having fun dealing with/processing all these identities that ranged the spectrum from success to failure. (I'll not relay what his items are. You will need to find your own, if indeed you have this kind of situation on your case)

His final action on handling this side of his Matrix will be to run oppose and O/W for and between the key identities of the Matrix.

RogerB

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

As CarmelO has rightly noted, and often, the lead auditor for Alan (Eric W) produced a lot of "out lists." There is a probable reason for this.

In my view, it occurred because the folks who ended up with "out lists" were hung up in the LRH/Scn notion that one had to/should get the most right, truthful, and ultimate item of your existence on the subject being listed. And that, of course, is a tall order. A very tall order.

Of the perhaps dozen individuals, who were audited by Eric, whose listing items I corrected, the above answer was not a part of the out list. Most of the individuals' out list corrections I did were from the 1990s. The most recent was from a session Eric gave nearly a decade ago. I fixed that out list within the last month or two. I cannot and will not say anything about Eric's current ability to do a good job auditing. I have no first or second hand knowledge worth repeating.

Specifically one person was told "your item is ___" without the PC originating it.

Another wanted to look at an area and was told instead that his "item was ______." and that he didn't need to look further.

I was told to my face, in session with Eric as the auditor (Dallas 1996), that my perception was an implant.

In no way, do I wish to negate or make less of the valuable advice regarding listing that you imparted.

I merely wish to say that of the people processed by Eric, whose lists I've personally corrected (my own included), Eric didn't grant enough beingness to allow the client to actually list or ITSA. I think the Eric of the 1990s thinks that the item is the important thing. The process of locating it is secondary to naming it. If the PC had trouble naming it, or was going to take time doing it, Eric just got there faster than the PC, and told the PC what he needed to know.

It has been my feeling that Eric's training was incomplete.

Just so no one misunderstands: I really don't like running someone down publicly. I'm relatively certain that Eric has high ideals and wants to help others. It is my thought that if another auditor had originally listed those exact people alluded to, there would not have been the problems I found.

In 1995, my thought regarding Eric was that he couldn't audit his way out of a paper bag.

That doesn't mean he's a bad person, as has been more or less said by some people in Texas.

I can't sing. That doesn't make me a bad person. I don't think any amount of training can get me to sing, play guitar, or dance better than Alfalfa (of the Little Rascals). I'm not sure that Eric isn't the same way regarding auditing. He has been studying the subject for decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKuoeZuHLs&feature=related

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Speaking of Ed Ames and children of the '50s and '60s, I was watching TV the night this event took place. Funniest damn thing I had ever seen on TV. Just shows you how times have changed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUQ3qnwCFU

I checked this list late. Everybody had begun to chime in. I saw the Ed Ames mention. My knee jerk reaction was to post this Carson show memory (on youtube). i read on, and there it was. Nothing like all of us having fond memories of the same stuff that we can now share.

Your TED video on commerce and not knowing how to make a computer mouse was impressive.

Yesterday, I took my Toyota truck apart, to fix a bad water pump, I got to the point where I have to take the timing belt off to get to the water pump. I left it there. I'm going to have to go to the library today to find out everything I need to know about the timing belt. There is so much more knowledge needed these days to do "simple" repairs. Things were a lot less complex when I was growing up. The same laws of physics apply. The applications have just become more complex.

 

[Enthetan]

When were you involved?

many people I know have home schooled.

with all the governmental rules binding schools hands, there has to be an alternative that will catch on.

Been doing it for the last 16 years. Still doing it.

With the oldest one, it was because she was gifted and the school system was hostile to the idea of me teaching her math well in advance of her grade level (she knew how to do long division and simple algebra in first grade, besides reading similarly well above her level). So I pulled her out and home-schooled.

The younger ones mostly went along with the flow. The youngest one I tried letting go to regular school, but she was dyslexic and I had to pull her out to work on her. She reads above grade level now with no further trace of dyslexia.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Rog,

You are one the main reasons I started posting on this thread.

You truly give gifts that are very well worth receiving. I have been working my way through the “Oh God” thread. Your posts there, here, elsewhere are a tremendous record of diligence, pragmatism and discovery that will go forward in time and are invaluable contributions to the growing composite of knowledge, wisdom and practical techniques.

You are one of a very small number of folks that I would trust completely as a processor—Ted and Carmelo are on that list, also. I say this not because others are “bad”…I say this because I know I would be perfectly duplicated and that my complete “craziness” would not baffle or frustrate yall too much. I say this because I know you guys know what you are doing and, most importantly, do it for the right reasons from the Heart.

“The unexamined life is not worth living. Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.” Socrates

Thank you, Rog, for examining and sharing.

Love to have those beers together someday.

Face

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Rog,

You are one the main reasons I started posting on this thread.

You truly give gifts that are very well worth receiving. I have been working my way through the “Oh God” thread. Your posts there, here, elsewhere are a tremendous record of diligence, pragmatism and discovery that will go forward in time and are invaluable contributions to the growing composite of knowledge, wisdom and practical techniques.

You are one of a very small number of folks that I would trust completely as a processor—Ted and Carmelo are on that list, also. I say this not because others are “bad”…I say this because I know I would be perfectly duplicated and that my complete “craziness” would not baffle or frustrate yall too much. I say this because I know you guys know what you are doing and, most importantly, do it for the right reasons from the Heart.

“The unexamined life is not worth living. Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.” Socrates

Thank you, Rog, for examining and sharing.

Love to have those beers together someday.

Face

Amen, Brother.

 

[RogerB]

Of the perhaps dozen individuals, who were audited by Eric, whose listing items I corrected, the above answer was not a part of the out list. Most of the individuals' out list corrections I did were from the 1990s. The most recent was from a session Eric gave nearly a decade ago. I fixed that out list within the last month or two. I cannot and will not say anything about Eric's current ability to do a good job auditing. I have no first or second hand knowledge worth repeating.

Specifically one person was told "your item is ___" without the PC originating it.

Another wanted to look at an area and was told instead that his "item was ______." and that he didn't need to look further.

I was told to my face, in session with Eric as the auditor (Dallas 1996), that my perception was an implant.

In no way, do I wish to negate or make less of the valuable advice regarding listing that you imparted.

I merely wish to say that of the people processed by Eric, whose lists I've personally corrected (my own included), Eric didn't grant enough beingness to allow the client to actually list or ITSA. I think the Eric of the 1990s thinks that the item is the important thing. The process of locating it is secondary to naming it. If the PC had trouble naming it, or was going to take time doing it, Eric just got there faster than the PC, and told the PC what he needed to know.

It has been my feeling that Eric's training was incomplete.

Just so no one misunderstands: I really don't like running someone down publicly. I'm relatively certain that Eric has high ideals and wants to help others. It is my thought that if another auditor had originally listed those exact people alluded to, there would not have been the problems I found.

In 1995, my thought regarding Eric was that he couldn't audit his way out of a paper bag.

That doesn't mean he's a bad person, as has been more or less said by some people in Texas.

I can't sing. That doesn't make me a bad person. I don't think any amount of training can get me to sing, play guitar, or dance better than Alfalfa (of the Little Rascals). I'm not sure that Eric isn't the same way regarding auditing. He has been studying the subject for decades.

A good post, CO. And a correct post.

There are lots of nuances on this issue/subject, and as usual one often does not get to them all in one post as I did not in mine on this topic.

What you note above as the "procedure" used by the processor to "give" clients their items is such crazy shit as to be almost unbelievable.

Though I did have to repair my friend/client on just this kind of crap run on him when at the ranch a year of two ago (not by EW).

I remember the period in the '90's we had an exchange on the old Kn list forerunner to the Prosperity List to do with folks having difficulty listing for and getting their correct negative Code item.

When I did mine, my observation was that it spanned a spectrum of the mood scale and that it did change expression as it manifested at different levels on the scale. . . . hey what's new? We ourselves change expression as we change mood

As I noted at the time we discoursed on the subject, one of the things behind many who questioned or went into doubt on the rightness of their negative (or even positive) Code, did so due to having gotten as their item only a single mood expression of it versus getting the core ultimate expression of it that spanned the spectrum. And only getting one expression of it of course triggered all the rest of the mood spectrum expressions of it.

Alan was very much in agreement with this analysis . . . I even think it came to him as a little bit of a cog.

And this phenomenon caused folks to go into a "what's wrong" mode on their items.

In actuality, looking at it now, I'd say it is not so much a "wrong item" as an "incompletely expressed" item.

So it is interesting now to be looking at what the hell went on.

I know the items you were originally correcting (some at least) were Codes items. These recent ones with folks being "given/told" their items . . . were they Codes items? or simply other listed for items?

R