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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes Foti, but you must must must understand that it a MAJOR OVERT against ALL HUMANITY to go and buy them for $59 on Amazon when the Org desperately deserves to be paid 3000$ for all of the hard work they put in to get these books printed for you. Just think about it. And report to HCO.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In one of my conversations with another lady from CLO, I asked her about the Basic Books to libraries program. There are 18 public libraries along with several college libraries in the area where I live and none of them have the Basic books. I asked her why that is. She said she didn't know. I told her.....go check the libraries around the country and let me know why those books aren't in the libraries. She said she would, but I doubt that she will. It appears that the CoS just filched the public for the money for the Basic Books, but didn't deliver them to the libraries and kept the money instead. If they put them in the libraries, why would anyone pay over $3,000 to read them if they can just go to the library and read them for free? I also saw on Amazon.....the whole set of 18 books is for sale there for $59.00. How the hell do they think they can sell people those books when people can get them so cheep online, if they wanted to have them. I didn't see any of the DVDs, though....just the books.

She also was raving about how they have highest stats ever. I should have asked what stats she was talking about.....maybe that's stats on BS (that stands for bull sh*t :bullshit: , not book sales). She went on and raved about the way the books and tapes have all been organized now with ALL the data (at least until DM gets around to finding more and publishes a whole new set) and raved all about their beautiful new ideal orgs. Sounds like maybe they have become PTS to the middle class.....keeping up with the Joneses, showing off all their money. :dieslaughing:

Thanks for these posts FoTi and Lakey. You are a Joy to read.

It reminds me of when the phone company and the cable company used to try and charge you for the number of audio or visio components hooked up to their system. You could just go to Best Buy and purchase a piece of R6 cable and a splitter or a 2 way telephone adapter plug for a a buck. :melodramatic:

And yes, the glossaries are nice Gary. The pages smell better too. And such a nicer shade of bright white. HelluvaHoax will never have another winter chill.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

any more relatives here of Graeme Hart (born 1955)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Hart

Hart's successful business career has humble origins—in his younger days, he worked as a tow-truck driver and as a panel beater after leaving school at 15.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I got another call from CLO Sat night under the guise of caring about me and wanting to help me to get up the bridge and go free. But of course it was a sales call and they wanted me to buy the basic books.

I was told that people who went to a psychologist prior to Scientology are no longer illegal pcs.....that the illegal pc policy had been misinterpreted for years and a lot of people were treated unjustly and turned away because of this error. Then she asked me if I had ever been given psych drugs or been institutionalized. No. This lady even told me that there are people who had shock treatment that have been recovered and handled and have gone up the bridge. Oh, really?

When I wouldn't buy the basic book pkg, she tried to get me to buy just one book and an extension course. When I told her I wasn't buying any books and I was never coming back, she then said something to the effect of....so why am I trying to help you? I don't know. :confused2: I had already said over and over that I wasn't coming back. :no:

The information these guys had on me was incomplete and mostly incorrect....shows a lot of misduplication within the org lines.

I don't know how they can possibly recover people that have been out and on the net researching what has been going on in regards to those who have been in and left.

I asked a lot of questions and found that they can't answer them....they don't know or they aren't willing to look and find out because they aren't interested in looking at entheta. Well, if they can't look at entheta and handle it, how do they ever expect to get people back? The CoS has enturbulated lots of people thru the years and now doesn't want to look at it or handle it? Good luck on recovering people.

I spent probably a total of about 8 hours over several days talking with them, asking questions.....I wanted to know what kind of answers they would come up with and hoped that maybe I could jog someone's stuck viewpoint, but they are all so solidly stuck and certain of what they have been told that questions are answered with rote answers....just like the GAT training for auditors. They can't really converse, they can only parrot.

The oh so sweet caring turned a little hostile when it finally sunk in that I wasn't coming back and I wasn't going to buy any books or extension courses from her.

I guess they spent a lot of time with me, maybe thinking they had a sucker on the other end of the line since I was talking civil and friendly with them and just asking questions instead of attacking them. Since I wasted hours of their time, and they didn't get a stat out of me, I doubt I will be hearing from them again. :)

Hi FoTi - I just had a new awareness while reading the opening paragraphs of your above post. You say they called pretending an interest in your well being and how you were doing casewise but their real motive was to sell you books. This is all too typical of what they do!

C OF S IS TOO LINEAR
I am sure a term already exists for this but I am coining the word "linear" as a name for what they do.

CURRENT SCENE IN C OF S
1. Someone calls you pretending interest in how you are doing.
2. The conversation is quickly diverted into selling you something.
3. You resist, so they go into a "Hard Sell".
4. You still resist so they do a used car technique (a turnover) a change salesmen
5. Hard sell gets harder, you either buy or hang up on them, usually the latter.

What if they were more sincere in how you were doing, it could go like this.
SUGGESTED IMPROVED SCENE IN C OF S
1. Someone calls you ACTUALLY interested in how you are doing.
2. They listen to you as you tell them what is going on.
3. They listen some more. They acknowledge you
4. They mention that they have some new books which might help you.
5. They thank you for your time and tell you to call them back and give them an update.

A few days later, your problem area gets worse; you remember the great phone conversation you recently had with the person at C of S.

6. You call back that person, ask about the books and tell then that you have decided you want to buy them. You only have $1,000 available for the $3,000 package so the guy recommends the particular books which might help you the most and sells you those books for a bit under $1,000.

7. A couple of months later, you get in some more money and call them back and buy the rest of the package.

8. In the meantime, you have told several of your friends about this helpful man down at the Org and several of them have now called him and purchased books.

Things like this can happen. The Org starts and continues with an "outflow" instead of a "gimme". Per Hubbard's own "tech", this is the way to get more income. Outflow is continued in abundance. Outflow in the form of sincerely caring for the welfare of parishioners is continued. The Org is flooded with money and a good name in its community.

This scene has no chance of occuring in today's C of S. Anyone who championed the softer sales method called sincere caring and outflowing would quickly be sent to the RPF. The only form of persuasion which they do know is LINEAR - brute force in the form of "CRUSH REGGING".
Lakey
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hi FoTi - I just had a new awareness while reading the opening paragraphs of your above post. You say they called pretending an interest in your well being and how you were doing casewise but their real motive was to sell you books. This is all too typical of what they do!

C OF S IS TOO LINEAR
I am sure a term already exists for this but I am coining the word "linear" as a name for what they do.

CURRENT SCENE IN C OF S
1. Someone calls you pretending interest in how you are doing.
2. The conversation is quickly diverted into selling you something.
3. You resist, so they go into a "Hard Sell".
4. You still resist so they do a used car technique (a turnover) a change salesmen
5. Hard sell gets harder, you either buy or hang up on them, usually the latter.

What if they were more sincere in how you were doing, it could go like this.
SUGGESTED IMPROVED SCENE IN C OF S
1. Someone calls you ACTUALLY interested in how you are doing.
2. They listen to you as you tell them what is going on.
3. They listen some more. They acknowledge you
4. They mention that they have some new books which might help you.
5. They thank you for your time and tell you to call them back and give them an update.

A few days later, your problem area gets worse; you remember the great phone conversation you recently had with the person at C of S.

6. You call back that person, ask about the books and tell then that you have decided you want to buy them. You only have $1,000 available for the $3,000 package so the guy recommends the particular books which might help you the most and sells you those books for a bit under $1,000.

7. A couple of months later, you get in some more money and call them back and buy the rest of the package.

8. In the meantime, you have told several of your friends about this helpful man down at the Org and several of them have now called him and purchased books.

Things like this can happen. The Org starts and continues with an "outflow" instead of a "gimme". Per Hubbard's own "tech", this is the way to get more income. Outflow is continued in abundance. Outflow in the form of sincerely caring for the welfare of parishioners is continued. The Org is flooded with money and a good name in its community.

This scene has no chance of occuring in today's C of S. Anyone who championed the softer sales method called sincere caring and outflowing would quickly be sent to the RPF. The only form of persuasion which they do know is LINEAR - brute force in the form of "CRUSH REGGING".
Lakey

The dissem formula and Hard sell is the only thing, that I know of that is in policy, so they don't have much to work with. I don't have the policy, but what I remember of Hard Sell, because I was a letter reg, was using hard sell....caring enough about the person to get them to do their next service....thus "CRUSH REGGING". It's trained into the regges and the rest of the staff as well....they are forced into it. They are trained into pushing people into buying services and doing the bridge so that they will go free...and since they all believe that, they do it.

I remember years ago I got called into AOLA for an ARCX session. I really thought they were going to fly my ruds and I would feel better and want to continue. I went in session, but instead of flying my ruds and handling my ARCX, the auditor did a brief list, indicated to me that I was out int (which I wasn't), scolded me and shamed me into getting back on course with her hard sell....telling me ......this is your brief opportunity in time to go free and you are wasting it (I believed this, so she had an edge on me). I then thought I was wrong. She treated me like some kind of scum. I felt like shit and left the session (which wasn't really a session), with my tail between my legs I went and signed up for the mini Book I course to get back on lines so I wouldn't be considered out ethics.

Everytime I said....no...I'm not going to buy your books or I'm not coming back, to these guys at CLO who were trying to get me to buy the Basics over the phone, they went back to the "I care about you or we care about you" ..... I'd get more of that for a while and then to the close again, trying to get me to buy the books. They are so transparent. How can they even think that someone who was in Scientology for over 30 years would not know what they were doing? LOL

There was a feeling I had about Scientology....especially Flag...more so when I was at flag.... and a residual feeling after I left the CoS that I couldn't identify. It was a bad feeling. It just hung with me.

Last night I was reading the Clearbird books on Level 1 and Level 0. There was some discussion here on ESMB re Grade 1....problems. I never did the Grades and was curious what was in them. Just in reading some of the data in these two Clearbird books (which are online for free), I saw so many outpoints in my own auditing and what was happening with the staff. I blew off a bunch of grief.

I also had something happen in my life a couple of years ago that left me totally caved in and unable to function well in life and I couldn't seem to get out of it....I couldn't identify or as-is this sh*t so that I could get on with life. Well, after reading the stuff in the Clearbird books on those two grades, and seeing a lot of the outpoints in my own services in Scientology and what others were living under while working there.... I then twigged on what had been making me feel so awful for the last two years.....I had been duped.....physically, emotionally and spiritually raped.....and I hadn't been able to see what it was. That was it....it was rape. I don't mean forced sex, which seems to be the only definition I can find online for this, but I have The American Heritage Dictionary, Third Edition 1992 and definition #3 is "Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice". I had been underhandedly raped. It helped me to see how rape could be done so covertly. I also think people sometimes do this without even knowing what they are doing. Blew some charge there.



Then I realized that is what the CoS does......financial, mental and spiritual rape and sometimes physical, done in such a way that one doesn't recognize what it reallly is. That was what that sh*tty feeling was that wouldn't go away. I had been raped by the CoS, and watched it happen to others, without seeing it for what it was. RAPE .... pure and simple.

Bate and switch.....taking advantage of people's lack of awareness ... leading them on like lambs to the slaughter = rape.

Even though I saw and experienced the bad stuff happening in the CoS, in reading the parts of the Clearbird materials that I read, I saw how Scientology should have been and that helped me to separate out the bad stuff, blow off the charge and come to the above conclusions. So I'm glad those materials are free on line for anyone who might want to read them and I thank whoever did all the work of putting those materials together and then put them online for anyone to see.

This stuff was really hard to see and sort out when I was in the middle of it.

I'm feeling better, a little more aware of this kind of thing going on in the world inside and outside of the CoS, a little less vulnerable to this kind of crap, a little happier and a bit wiser now. Whew!
 
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FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes Foti, but you must must must understand that it a MAJOR OVERT against ALL HUMANITY to go and buy them for $59 on Amazon when the Org desperately deserves to be paid 3000$ for all of the hard work they put in to get these books printed for you. Just think about it. And report to HCO.

Aye, Aye, sir.

Emma.....I can't find a salute smilie. :nervous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m8iM3Blrnc
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks for these posts FoTi and Lakey. You are a Joy to read.

It reminds me of when the phone company and the cable company used to try and charge you for the number of audio or visio components hooked up to their system. You could just go to Best Buy and purchase a piece of R6 cable and a splitter or a 2 way telephone adapter plug for a a buck. :melodramatic:

And yes, the glossaries are nice Gary. The pages smell better too. And such a nicer shade of bright white. HelluvaHoax will never have another winter chill.

How nice, the smell of the pages! I remember taking a waft of the pages of a freshly printed book from time to time when I used to do a lot of reading of the major classics and also New York Times best sellers. Sometimes, the ink smells good too.

Helluva Hoax should consider buying his Basic Books on Amazon for only $59. On those cold winter nights, it might be cheaper to burn those books than it would be to buy home heating.

I just got a Yellow Pages left on my front porch today. What good is it? The internet has made this once indispensable book more out of date than a Model T. "One could still use the yellow pages old saying, "Let your fingers do the walking!" but know they walk over the keys of your computer keyboard and not the Yellow Pages Book.

I hear there is a way now to have your computer be your telephone. You by some very inexpensive part, plug in and you have basically free phone service. I see these new electronic "tablets" where complete books are loaded in and you cary the tablet around and read that instead of the book. Its cheaper and more compact than most books and one tablet holds umpteen books. Two things, you can't dog ear the pages, nor can you smell the paper and the ink. Is that enough to keep paper books on the market, I doubt it.

Where is it all going to end. So many things that were the staples of society from time immemorial have now gone the way of the buggy whip. Some of the most key items to be phased out of society are:
Film Cameras
Polaroid Cameras
Sending letters in the mail largely replaced by email
Fax Machines, once a great tech breakthrough are being replaced by email
The Yellow Pages
Paper Books
Satellite radio - supplanted by I phones with all those tunes.
Thomas Bros. Map Books, carried in one's car to find how to drive somewhere.
Map Quest, once the rage has now been replaced by GPS's
GPS only machines have now been replaced by I phones containing GPS.
Where are we going with all this? What are the next products to disappear?
Lakey
 
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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Nor do you salute when not wearing a cap or other headgear.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The actual salute was good, but the dude is out of uniform. So that's not a pass. And Navy doesn't salute uncovered or indoors.

Nor do you salute when not wearing a cap or other headgear.

Pickey, pickey.....nit pickers

I didn't make the video. I couldn't find a smilie salute, so I just used this video instead.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You are quite correct, gentlemen.

In British Military tradition, one can never salute when not wearing some form of hat, as one is "out of uniform."

Though when I was doing National Service in my youth, a group of us ran into a conundrum while returning from a work duty.

The three of us were walking on the perimeter road back to barracks carrying our shovels and picks, etc., when we spotted an officer coming towards us. It happened that this officer was actually formerly of the English army and a bit of a picky son-of-a-bitch.

For those familiar with salutes, when carrying a rifle, one puts it on the shoulder and salutes by swinging one's opposite hand across the lower chest to rest it palm down on the rifle.

But here we were with our hands full of gear, so what to do? Failure to saluted earns you some discipline when in basic bootcamp training :grouch:

So we got smart and "sloped arms" (the command for placing a rifle on the shoulder) . . . and render the SOB a salute with our shovels and tools. :biggrin:

The outcome was rather good, said stiff English officer saw the humor in the idiocy of the situation, and returned our salute with quite a smile on his face as he walked on by us.

The real outcome of our little "thing" was that he ever after saw us as intelligent, fun people and treated us with more respect than he had before.

Rog
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The dissem formula and Hard sell is the only thing, that I know of that is in policy, so they don't have much to work with. I don't have the policy, but what I remember of Hard Sell, because I was a letter reg, was using hard sell....caring enough about the person to get them to do their next service....thus "CRUSH REGGING". It's trained into the regges and the rest of the staff as well....they are forced into it. They are trained into pushing people into buying services and doing the bridge so that they will go free...and since they all believe that, they do it.
.........snip..............

I still have one thing in common with my brother, I am not all that computer literate. Can someone tell me how to copy just one paragraph from another's post to comment on. All I know is to copy the entire post and then delete everything but the one paragraph.

Anyway, LRH had some sort of quote on outflowing which was read to us on occasion at staff meetings at CCLA. I don't know the exact words but it contained something like, "....Outflow is holier, more noble, and more remuniterive than inflow..." The gist of it is that it is better for a spiritual being to engage in outflow than in inflow and if one does that, he will have an abundance of good things flowing in, including money.

You see this principle applied voraciously in parts of Orgs other than Registration and Sales. For examples, the ridiculous amounts of mail sent to a person's house. If they are "in" C of S, they get maybe 4 or 5 pieces of everything when one would suffice. If they are out, no amount of calling in to have your name removed from their mailing list every gets your name removed. Why this enormous waste of promo money and postage? They believe in the dictum, "particles" out equals more particles in. They believe that 5 weeks after something is mailed out, the stats will automatically go up. That is what LRH writes somewhere. THE OTHER REASON THAT YOUR NAME IS NEVER REMOVED FROM THEIR LISTS IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM. IF THEY REMOVE IT, THEIR STATS GO DOWN.

THE MONEY SQUANDERED ON MAILING OUT A SUPERFLOUS AMOUNT OF PROMO PIECES WITHOUT CAREFULLY MAKING SURE THAT THE PROPER TARGETED PEOPLE RECEIVE THEM IS ABSOLUTELY MIND NUMBING. Even so, they could care less. It gets a lot of stats up and they rest assured that in 5 weeks, the promo will cause a boom.

In my post which FoTi replied to, I was suggesting that the Registrars and call in people follow the principle of outflowing in abundance as the other parts of the org do instead of using only the time worn approach of crush regging to get an inflow at all costs.
Lakey
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I still have one thing in common with my brother, I am not all that computer literate. Can someone tell me how to copy just one paragraph from another's post to comment on. All I know is to copy the entire post and then delete everything but the one paragraph.

Anyway, LRH had some sort of quote on outflowing which was read to us on occasion at staff meetings at CCLA. I don't know the exact words but it contained something like, "....Outflow is holier, more noble, and more remuniterive than inflow..." The gist of it is that it is better for a spiritual being to engage in outflow than in inflow and if one does that, he will have an abundance of good things flowing in, including money.

You see this principle applied voraciously in parts of Orgs other than Registration and Sales. For examples, the ridiculous amounts of mail sent to a person's house. If they are "in" C of S, they get maybe 4 or 5 pieces of everything when one would suffice. If they are out, no amount of calling in to have your name removed from their mailing list every gets your name removed. Why this enormous waste of promo money and postage? They believe in the dictum, "particles" out equals more particles in. They believe that 5 weeks after something is mailed out, the stats will automatically go up. That is what LRH writes somewhere. THE OTHER REASON THAT YOUR NAME IS NEVER REMOVED FROM THEIR LISTS IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM. IF THEY REMOVE IT, THEIR STATS GO DOWN.

THE MONEY SQUANDERED ON MAILING OUT A SUPERFLOUS AMOUNT OF PROMO PIECES WITHOUT CAREFULLY MAKING SURE THAT THE PROPER TARGETED PEOPLE RECEIVE THEM IS ABSOLUTELY MIND NUMBING. Even so, they could care less. It gets a lot of stats up and they rest assured that in 5 weeks, the promo will cause a boom.

In my post which FoTi replied to, I was suggesting that the Registrars and call in people follow the principle of outflowing in abundance as the other parts of the org do instead of using only the time worn approach of crush regging to get an inflow at all costs.
Lakey

Lakey, yours in red above.

If you are running a PC (not a Mac) you can highlight any section of copy, then hit "Ctrl C" (control plus C), then place you cursor where you want to stick the piece you're copying to be inserted and hit "Ctrl V" (control+V) to paste it.

Otherwise you can do the right click, copy, then place your cursor where you want to insert and right click, paste.

But, my dear, all this stuff is in your "Help" area which all these wonderful machines are stuffed with :biggrin:

R
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In my post which FoTi replied to, I was suggesting that the Registrars and call in people follow the principle of outflowing in abundance as the other parts of the org do instead of using only the time worn approach of crush regging to get an inflow at all costs.
Lakey

What do you suggest that a Registrar or a call-in person outflow in abundance besides talking you into buying a service and giving them your money or calling you a hundred times asking you to come to an event or asking you to come into the org for services or asking you to buy something? They do outflow their communication in abundance and annoy the hell out of people in doing so. What else do they have to outflow?

When I was at Flag, the regges were real friendly if I had money for them or they were trying to get money out of me.....I guess that was their outflow. Once they got their money they no longer were friendly and wouldn't give me the time of day....they were too busy sucking the $ out of the next guy. Even in passing them in the hallway, there was no acknowledgement of my existence. It was like I was a non person unless I had $ in my hand for them. It was pretty obvious that being friendly was a waste of time to them. It didn't produce a stat for them. They were like robots.....tone 40 on their job of getting $ for the org. It made me feel pretty weird that the only reason they ever wanted to talk to me was to get $ from me. I never found reges in other orgs that tight ass.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The actual salute was good, but the dude is out of uniform. So that's not a pass. And Navy doesn't salute uncovered or indoors.

Nor do you salute when not wearing a cap or other headgear.

What about the SO? Do they have to have headgear on to salute? Do they only salute outdoors? Do they salute?
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

What do you suggest that a Registrar or a call-in person outflow in abundance besides talking you into buying a service and giving them your money or calling you a hundred times asking you to come to an event or asking you to come into the org for services or asking you to buy something? They do outflow their communication in abundance and annoy the hell out of people in doing so. What else do they have to outflow?

When I was at Flag, the regges were real friendly if I had money for them or they were trying to get money out of me.....I guess that was their outflow. Once they got their money they no longer were friendly and wouldn't give me the time of day....they were too busy sucking the $ out of the next guy. Even in passing them in the hallway, there was no acknowledgement of my existence. It was like I was a non person unless I had $ in my hand for them. It was pretty obvious that being friendly was a waste of time to them. It didn't produce a stat for them. They were like robots.....tone 40 on their job of getting $ for the org. It made me feel pretty weird that the only reason they ever wanted to talk to me was to get $ from me. I never found reges in other orgs that tight ass.

FoTi - I alluded to what the Registrar's had to outflow in my post before my last one. That was the post which you initially responded to. I suggested they outflow a caring and concerned attitude. To classify as outflow this would have to be GENUINE concern and care, not just the phoney concern and care which they put out for the purpose of leading into their sales close.

The Registrars should put in their TR's that they have been forced to drill over the years and ask genuine caring questions as to how their prospect is doing. Then they should listen and acknowledge.

About the only regging done should be to introduce the products which they are selling and tell the prospect that those might help in solving the prospects problems. The game is to care, care, care about the prospect and to give them a little help plus mention that the products offered would likely give more help. The Reg would then get off the line, hopefully having planted some seeds of good will and hope. It is likely that the prospect would refer the reg to his/her friends and eventually call back ready to make a purchase.

THE ULTRA HARD SALE VERSUS A SOFT FRIENDLY SALE -
The hard well will get more cash in RIGHT NOW, that is true, but look at what costs are incurred to get the money in instantly. Doing it that way, the Orgs wind up dealing with bounced checks and overdrawn credit cards, angry and threatening clients, threats of legal action and a multitude of actual legal actions. Meanwhile, the word out on the street, i.e. their PR image and reputation absolutely stinks.

When you examine the higher flow of sales using crush regging, you should subtract out the bounced checks and factor in the costs of litigation and all the extra handlings to calm down the irate public and staff. Also to be factored in are the mass defections from the ranks of membership and the terrible reputation and PR image with the public.
Lakey
 

FoTi

Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

FoTi - I alluded to what the Registrar's had to outflow in my post before my last one. That was the post which you initially responded to. I suggested they outflow a caring and concerned attitude. To classify as outflow this would have to be GENUINE concern and care, not just the phoney concern and care which they put out for the purpose of leading into their sales close.

The Registrars should put in their TR's that they have been forced to drill over the years and ask genuine caring questions as to how their prospect is doing. Then they should listen and acknowledge.

About the only regging done should be to introduce the products which they are selling and tell the prospect that those might help in solving the prospects problems. The game is to care, care, care about the prospect and to give them a little help plus mention that the products offered would likely give more help. The Reg would then get off the line, hopefully having planted some seeds of good will and hope. It is likely that the prospect would refer the reg to his/her friends and eventually call back ready to make a purchase.

THE ULTRA HARD SALE VERSUS A SOFT FRIENDLY SALE -
The hard well will get more cash in RIGHT NOW, that is true, but look at what costs are incurred to get the money in instantly. Doing it that way, the Orgs wind up dealing with bounced checks and overdrawn credit cards, angry and threatening clients, threats of legal action and a multitude of actual legal actions. Meanwhile, the word out on the street, i.e. their PR image and reputation absolutely stinks.

When you examine the higher flow of sales using crush regging, you should subtract out the bounced checks and factor in the costs of litigation and all the extra handlings to calm down the irate public and staff. Also to be factored in are the mass defections from the ranks of membership and the terrible reputation and PR image with the public.
Lakey

I see what you're saying and it would be nice if there was a genuine caring, but I don't think it would work. Without the scare tactics and the pressure factor and the urgency to do it now....in this brief moment of time....I think people would just take their time and do whatever they want at their own leisure. They wouldn't max out their credit cards or sell their homes, or quit school or beg, borrow and steal to get their bridges paid for or donate their kids to the SO without the fear factor and the urgency to get ethics in and clear the planet now. This is what regges use to get people to pay up now. If it was done the way you say, I don't think the orgs would make enough money to pay their expenses or their staff. LRH put Registrars in the system for a reason. He also set up their training for them to do it the way they do. My guess is that he saw that the money wasn't going to come in high enough quantity for the orgs or himself to survive without pushing people to pay, just like sales people do in the real world. For anything to survive in this world, it has to be sold, one way or another. Why do you think there are so many sales courses that emphasize ABC.....always be closing? Because if the sales person is just nice to the customer and cares about them, they might get an occasional sale, but not enough to survive on. The orgs would die.

I agree they've gone way overboard on the "Crush regging" and caused themselves a lot of problems, but just looking at my own experience, had they just been nice to me and not pushed me, scared me or got me to believe stuff that wasn't necessarily true, they would never have got all the money out of me or my family that they did. I would have been a lot better off and so would my family, but the org, LRH or DM would not have been as well off financially. I don't think the orgs would have survived without Regges always trying to close the public and pushing them to buy. Just being nice to people doesn't make them buy. And if they do buy, it would be on their own terms and not the way LRH wanted them to buy, which was ..... pay up now, at all costs.....make the church rich.....make LRH rich.....make DM rich....to hell with the public or staff.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

What do you suggest that a Registrar or a call-in person outflow in abundance besides talking you into buying a service and giving them your money or calling you a hundred times asking you to come to an event or asking you to come into the org for services or asking you to buy something? They do outflow their communication in abundance and annoy the hell out of people in doing so. What else do they have to outflow?

When I was at Flag, the regges were real friendly if I had money for them or they were trying to get money out of me.....I guess that was their outflow. Once they got their money they no longer were friendly and wouldn't give me the time of day....they were too busy sucking the $ out of the next guy. Even in passing them in the hallway, there was no acknowledgement of my existence. It was like I was a non person unless I had $ in my hand for them. It was pretty obvious that being friendly was a waste of time to them. It didn't produce a stat for them. They were like robots.....tone 40 on their job of getting $ for the org. It made me feel pretty weird that the only reason they ever wanted to talk to me was to get $ from me. I never found reges in other orgs that tight ass.


I woulda walked by real fast, turned around to tell them over my shoulder that I need to give them some money that I had just come into, then sped off. I'd do that on my last day there, maybe while on my way to the taxi and airport. :clap::clap::clap:
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sorry to say...

I just found out that my good friend of days gone by, Paul Mogensen, OT-8, recently died suddenly and unexpectedly. He was younger than me by maybe 3 years. I am 63 now.

It has been some years since I have heard from him. At that time he was "on the ship" doing OT-8. He encouraged me to "get my situation handled." I declined as "my situation" was more like "their situation." To be OT one has to be able to recognize sources, and I'll be damned if I am going to clean up someone else's mess in scio-world.

If the information in this post is all there is to it, seems I made the right choice. The situation is a bit perplexing since I was instrumental in putting him on the Bridge and getting him employed first as my Mission staff then as staff of Sterling Management, and I do not now believe extensive OT-7 and OT-8 are a good thing.

:no::no::no:
 
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