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The State of Clear

It seems what I'm reading in the opinions of some here on this thread is that if I " FEEL GOOD !" then, most likely, I am clear !

This is such nonsense.

I guess it'd be fair to have a state of " Masturbated to Clear "!

Or WTF ever.

Come on folks, what has been described in this thread can be surpassed by a long way with only a small part of a $10 joint.

Hello?
 
DartSmohen said:
This is a well commented on subject.

The tech dictionary (as I remember it) describes Clear as "Being at cause over mental matter, energy, space & time".

On looking up "at cause" it said ; Able to greate or uncreate.

The state of Clear occurs when the person realises that they ate mocking it all up.

There is NOTHING in Scn materials that stipulates this can only occur whilst engaged in Scn activities.

This leads, of course, to heresy of olympic proportions.

I have successfully rehabbed many people's state of clear where they were doing a wide range of activities; TM, yoga, presence drills, aikido. It does not matter a jot what the person is doing, it is the fact that they have achieved that realization.

Many cases got "parked" because they were denied the truth of this.

It is funny to watch cult fanatics try and grapple with this datum. they go quite demented in trying to enforce the Scn connection with the state.

I am sure many readers out there can connect with this. If you went clear doing something other than Scn, then acknowledge it.

Enjoy.
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"describes Clear as "Being at cause over mental matter, energy, space & time".
But what degree of cause is never mentioned and that is what's missing. Total cause? Partial cause? Shared cause? What cause? The degrees of cause are so subjective that it cannot be measured, quantified or qualified. So the declaration of the supposed state of clear means nothing whatsoever. And those of us who were declared clear have come to realize that it's no more than a fart in the wind promissory state of pretense of beingness that was never truly achieved in spite of our glowing testimonies at the time while we were still entirely deluded.
 
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I've written about it on ESMB way back but just as a point of interest I decided to survey someone I know quite well;

Did you achieve the State of Clear in scientology? Yes.

Was it exactly as described by Hubbard? No.

Did you actually change for the better? Yes.

Does everyone else agree that you changed for the better? No

Has the State persisted/continued/been stable over the years? Yes.

Was the so-called "State of Clear" of any value to you? Yes.

Do you still consider it valuable? Yes.

Is there anything else you'd like the audience to know? Yes.

Uh huh? There is definitely something which occurs when a person actually "goes Clear" in scientology. It might not be anything like what Hubbard described so glowingly but it is something. I find it impossible to say that nothing actually occurred, that would be a lie. Something did occur and it was, for me, life-changing and permanent. I don't recommend scientology to anyone these days but I also can't pretend that it did nothing. Some people here will understand what I mean and some won't, I guess.
 
Panda Termint said:
I've written about it on ESMB way back but just as a point of interest I decided to survey someone I know quite well;

Did you achieve the State of Clear in scientology? Yes.

Was it exactly as described by Hubbard? No.

Did you actually change for the better? Yes.

Does everyone else agree that you changed for the better? No

Has the State persisted/continued/been stable over the years? Yes.

Was the so-called "State of Clear" of any value to you? Yes.

Do you still consider it valuable? Yes.

Is there anything else you'd like the audience to know? Yes.

Uh huh? There is definitely something which occurs when a person actually "goes Clear" in scientology. It might not be anything like what Hubbard described so glowingly but it is something. I find it impossible to say that nothing actually occurred, that would be a lie. Something did occur and it was, for me, life-changing and permanent. I don't recommend scientology to anyone these days but I also can't pretend that it did nothing. Some people here will understand what I mean and some won't, I guess.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 
Panda Termint said:
I've written about it on ESMB way back but just as a point of interest I decided to survey someone I know quite well;

Did you achieve the State of Clear in scientology? Yes.

Was it exactly as described by Hubbard? No.

Did you actually change for the better? Yes.

Does everyone else agree that you changed for the better? No

Has the State persisted/continued/been stable over the years? Yes.

Was the so-called "State of Clear" of any value to you? Yes.

Do you still consider it valuable? Yes.

Is there anything else you'd like the audience to know? Yes.

Uh huh? There is definitely something which occurs when a person actually "goes Clear" in scientology. It might not be anything like what Hubbard described so glowingly but it is something. I find it impossible to say that nothing actually occurred, that would be a lie. Something did occur and it was, for me, life-changing and permanent. I don't recommend scientology to anyone these days but I also can't pretend that it did nothing. Some people here will understand what I mean and some won't, I guess.
Click to expand...

Subjective states that are perceived by the experiencer to be very positive, can be achieved in Scientology, but when they don't fit the definitions of 'Clear' as offered by Hubbard, I don't see much point in calling them 'Clear.'
 
Smilla said:
Subjective states that are perceived by the experiencer to be very positive, can be achieved in Scientology, but when they don't fit the definitions of 'Clear' as offered by Hubbard, I don't see much point in calling them 'Clear.'
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Right! That's probably why so many other practices call these States by other names. :)
 
Panda Termint said:
I've written about it on ESMB way back but just as a point of interest I decided to survey someone I know quite well;

Did you achieve the State of Clear in scientology? Yes.

Was it exactly as described by Hubbard? No.

Did you actually change for the better? Yes.

Does everyone else agree that you changed for the better? No

Has the State persisted/continued/been stable over the years? Yes.

Was the so-called "State of Clear" of any value to you? Yes.

Do you still consider it valuable? Yes.

Is there anything else you'd like the audience to know? Yes.

Uh huh? There is definitely something which occurs when a person actually "goes Clear" in scientology. It might not be anything like what Hubbard described so glowingly but it is something. I find it impossible to say that nothing actually occurred, that would be a lie. Something did occur and it was, for me, life-changing and permanent. I don't recommend scientology to anyone these days but I also can't pretend that it did nothing. Some people here will understand what I mean and some won't,I guess.
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Good guess !
 
Panda Termint said:
Right! That's probably why so many other practices call these States by other names. :)
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My opinion is that what you name it doesn't matter much, and that it might be better not to name it at all.

shush.jpg

 
Smilla said:
Subjective states that are perceived by the experiencer to be very positive, can be achieved in Scientology, but when they don't fit the definitions of 'Clear' as offered by Hubbard, I don't see much point in calling them 'Clear.'
Click to expand...

There are many definitions of 'clear'. Some bear a better likeness to an indivdiual's self perception than others.

FWIW, I prefer the perspective offered up at one time by David Mayo. http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Works for me. :yes:


Mark A. Baker
 
I believe Bhuddist Monks can achieve the state of clear. Scientologists not so much because anger is showing that you are not wentirely rid of something.

Anons can anger scientologists by trolling them very easily
 
AnonKat said:
I believe Bhuddist Monks can achieve the state of clear. Scientologists not so much because anger is showing that you are not wentirely rid of something.

Anons can anger scientologists by trolling them very easily
Click to expand...

Yes, it doesn't take much to get a commited Scientologist to foam at the mouth :lol:
 
Smilla said:
Yes, I've read that a few times. It was quite revolutionary in it's day. I doubt that he'd say the same now.
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Well, in light of the gag order, he definitely wouldn't. As to whether he holds to a similar view after all these years is a separate matter. His earlier remarks about the state of clear pretty much sum up the matter from a scientology perspective as far as I'm concerned.

Whether he does or doesn't though, doesn't really matter. I respect David and his opinions and am always pleased to read whatever he chooses to put out there for others. I suspect strongly he would be the first to insist that he is not 'Source' for others, anymore from my view than hubbard ever was.

Neither is spirituality only about scientology approaches, however useful some of them may be. There are other perspectives on spirituality from other traditions and teachings which shed much light on the process of ongoing spiritual growth. One should never be tied to one view so tightly as to be unwilling to look at another.


Mark A. Baker
 
Yes, remarkable how easy it is to get a scio'gist stuck in anger.

Seems a natural state for 'em.

Or, as we say... psychopaths do as psychopaths.....too much kool-aid
 
uoting myself by popular demand lol

AnonKat said:
I believe Bhuddist Monks can achieve the state of clear. Scientologists not so much because anger is showing that you are not wentirely rid of something.

Anons can anger scientologists by trolling them very easily
Click to expand...

Quoting myself by populair demand
 
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