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Mark 'Marty' Rathbun: Scientology Top Management (video of Marty being ambushed)

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks Karen for sharing this story about Jenny. It's important for me to see the humanity in people like Jenny. I mean it's important for me to see that she is vulnerable and I'm sure not why but it is. We had humanity when we were in. We laughed and learned and did great things and suffered and we were real people if a bit nutty. Seeing Jenny adopting a smarmy, attack-dog persona is hard to stomach. She looks so artificial and nasty and mean and low and repulsive. Simply denigrating Jenny's behavior doesn't do anything for me. However, watching very closely it's obvious that she's playing a game that isn't her, but it's convincing except when considering how much effort and energy she's putting into it. If my ex-girlfriend drove 200 miles to tell me I'm unimportant and she doesn't care about me, I'd have to think of her actions say otherwise.

If Jenny and Davey really, truly didn't care about Marty, they wouldn't have even stopped.

It's insane to think of the abuse Jenny has suffered and still asks for more and even thinks she is doing the right thing by helping "mankind".

:omg:

I think the most depressing thing about Jenny is the timeline when that 7 days without sleep would have occurred. See Dave broke up her marriage to Tom Devotch, one of his supposed closest friends, when he decided he'd like to have a fling with his wife. So Jenny was promoted up the rank and much like Lou became a "communicator" for Dave. Once he was bored with her, he didn't just send her back to flag or some other post...no. He kept her at INT and began slowly torturing and abusing her.

It wasn't enough to make her a sexual plaything for his sick ego, he then needed to degrade and hurt her further by humiliating and abusing her over the next several years at INT. I think he best way to describe her is a abused girlfriend/manchurian candidate. The years of abuse were to one way for him to be sure she was still totally loyal and devoted to him, regardless of what evil shit he does to her.

Given the godlike status and adulation DM demands, I'm sure Jenny still "loves" or is obsessed with him in a romantic way and her still being at INT and going on all these humiliating psycho missions for Dave (CNN interview, Mike Rinder parking lot ambush, and now the LAX episode) are her way of proving her love and loyalty to DM. DM knows this and it's way to ensure he has a virtual slave to do his bidding and long as she harbors some faint hope that one day Dave will take her back and realize she is the most loyal woman he will ever find.

I think that's one of the main reasons Jenny looks so psychotic - she is - she's a victim of domestic violence, stockholm syndrome and cult abuse.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...
--snipped--

If Jenny and Davey really, truly didn't care about Marty, they wouldn't have even stopped.


Great point!

Which reminds one of Jenny's (unintentional) rhetorically paradoxical statement to Marty. . .

M1Vq9yL.gif


*


That is, perhaps, one of history's greatest examples of inadvertent cult adianoeta, because "NOBODY" (does in fact) "gives a fuck" about (Marty).

The ironic pathos that Jenny necessarily misses about her own statement is that the lethal combination of her cult's treachery, plus her own compromise & complicity, has effectively "erased" her own individuality--to the point of her becoming a "nobody". The fact that she stopped and returned several times to spew ugly abjurations in a crowded airport is ample (affirmative) evidence that "nobody gives a fuck" about Marty.

One day, if she ever recovers from her psychotic episodes, perhaps Jenny can write her memoirs in a book called "Adianoetics, the Modern Science of Mental Hell".



* Rights to re-publish this cultcam capture of a Scientology robot was graciously provided courtesy of "Paul's Robots".


 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the most depressing thing about Jenny is the timeline when that 7 days without sleep would have occurred. See Dave broke up her marriage to Tom Devotch, one of his supposed closest friends, when he decided he'd like to have a fling with his wife. So Jenny was promoted up the rank and much like Lou became a "communicator" for Dave. Once he was bored with her, he didn't just send her back to flag or some other post...no. He kept her at INT and began slowly torturing and abusing her.

It wasn't enough to make her a sexual plaything for his sick ego, he then needed to degrade and hurt her further by humiliating and abusing her over the next several years at INT. I think he best way to describe her is a abused girlfriend/manchurian candidate. The years of abuse were to one way for him to be sure she was still totally loyal and devoted to him, regardless of what evil shit he does to her.

Given the godlike status and adulation DM demands, I'm sure Jenny still "loves" or is obsessed with him in a romantic way and her still being at INT and going on all these humiliating psycho missions for Dave (CNN interview, Mike Rinder parking lot ambush, and now the LAX episode) are her way of proving her love and loyalty to DM. DM knows this and it's way to ensure he has a virtual slave to do his bidding and long as she harbors some faint hope that one day Dave will take her back and realize she is the most loyal woman he will ever find.

I think that's one of the main reasons Jenny looks so psychotic - she is - she's a victim of domestic violence, stockholm syndrome and cult abuse.

Wow, is that sad. :sadsigh: :sadangel:
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Karen for sharing this story about Jenny. It's important for me to see the humanity in people like Jenny. I mean it's important for me to see that she is vulnerable and I'm sure not why but it is. We had humanity when we were in. We laughed and learned and did great things and suffered and we were real people if a bit nutty. Seeing Jenny adopting a smarmy, attack-dog persona is hard to stomach. She looks so artificial and nasty and mean and low and repulsive. Simply denigrating Jenny's behavior doesn't do anything for me. However, watching very closely it's obvious that she's playing a game that isn't her, but it's convincing except when considering how much effort and energy she's putting into it. If my ex-girlfriend drove 200 miles to tell me I'm unimportant and she doesn't care about me, I'd have to think of her actions say otherwise.

If Jenny and Davey really, truly didn't care about Marty, they wouldn't have even stopped.

It's insane to think of the abuse Jenny has suffered and still asks for more and even thinks she is doing the right thing by helping "mankind".

:omg:

Boojum, I hear you. There is warmth and understanding and compassion in your post above.
These are traits that Jenny does not have.
She is feared only 2nd to Miscavige.
Her power and cruelty is a copycat of DM, it has increased exponentially over the years. I could tell you 1000 stories of Jenny but won't waste my time.

But I will give you one anecdote of Jenny in action with "unlimited Ethics powers" to demonstrate her mind set.

Cece served at the Advanced Org Los Angeles AOLA mostly in Treasury for 20 years. She did everything in her power to serve her group at the time. Handling irate delinquent merchants who were fed up not being paid, she expertly managed it all even when numerous vendors were not paid for 90 days.

Money is siphoned off to the "Top of the Org Board" before merchants and vendors are paid.

Then one day Jenny deVocht CMO INT Executive and David Miscavige "PET#1" comes to Los Angeles with her mad lunatic THUGGERY powers and runs into Cece in the elevator. Cece is on a modified scheduled due to a health condition.

Jenny devocht (Linson) has found out about shorter schedule. She tells Cece "you have 15 minutes to pack your bags and get off the Base !" Thus 20 years of savage schedule, less than minimum wage and all contribution was rewarded with Cece ordered off the base leaving behind her kids and husband in the Sea org. There was no compassion that Cece had served 20 years and has a little medical condition needing a modified schedule. She was kicked out for not being able to work ENOUGH.

Cece was thrown out on the curb. There was no $500 parting money to make it for the first week, she was slung out onto L Ron Hubbard Way penniless and with her remaining family left in the Sea Org.

20 years of slave labor, no health insurance, no pension, no retirement. "Get off our property in 15 minutes !" That is Jenny Devocht. The Gestapo Nazi identity could change a life in 15 mins. The year was 1995/1996

I had Cece over to my home for Thanksgiving dinner last year with a bunch of others who made it through the hell and survived. Even now, 20 years later Cece's tears rolled down her cheeks at dinner at how she was brutally kicked off and out enforcing family disconnection impoverished, destitute and without a cent to her name.

A Jenny Linsen PRODUCT.!

This is the Cult. So what else is new ?
ceceheadshot.jpg

Cece Marie Smith
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is the part that makes absolutely no sense.

It is not possible, much less "easy," to explain how Marty could say the things he has recently not about DM, and not only just about LRH, but also the Tech, and then be able to "take over" the Church of Scientology. DM is neither that stupid nor that deluded.

The whole "Marty is planning to take over the COS" thing is dead, and everyone knows it. Or should.

Every one of us exes have accepted stupidities from the cult because it was said with Authority.

I could imagine someone (DM) saying that Marty is dramatizing Refused on the CDEI Scale so that people go into Enforced and try to get him back into the fold, thereby playing the game he wanted all along which is to be elected leader of the "Indies" unopposed all over again and then take over the cult.

Or you could leave the Indies out of the equation (as few on-lines culties would know of their existence) and just keep telling the Faithful that Rathbun is still trying to be King of the Squirrels.

DM reportedly stated that Marty would be the only one who could take over from Him. Everybody else who's left Int has been a "DB" per DM. I personally think He's obsessed with Rathbun (and to a lesser extent Rinder) because He's scared shitless of them. I doubt He feels He ever broke Rathbun like He broke a lot of other SO and that must make the Drunken Maggot shit Hisself.

From what we've seen, the amount of stalking/harassment that Marty has endured is waaaaay more than anyone else. Why?

The cult ceased to directly bully me after ONE newspaper article. They've turned off the harassment on a lot of others after similar spotlights were shone, but not Marty.

That alone tells me a lot about how DM views him.

Because NOTHING in this toxic cult really happens unless the Drunken Maggot orders it, the orders are M9'd and clay demo'd, a full program is written and filed and Compliance Reports are chased up.:biggrin:
 

Leland

Crusader
I had made a couple quick vids of the screaming woman....some 1 second clips....that I looped. The vids were no more than 15 seconds long.

PTS Type 4 had suggested I "monetize" my vids on YouTube....after seeing the green witch one. I had never thought of doing that...but a couple clicks on my YouTube manager, and it was done.

Now YouTube has contacted me. Marty Rathbun...and the Company he hired ( I suppose) to manage the copyright and sell his LAX video, filed a complaint against me with YouTube, for Copyright infringement.....LOL LOL LOL LOL

So....I fought it a bit.....but then said ....WTF!

BUT.....then Marty's video management Company.....Continued the MONETIZATION of MY VIDEO WORK......taking the money.

So, I said WTF again, and deleted them.





:melodramatic:


 
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Lulu Belle

Moonbat
ASI only owns Hubbard's pulp sci-fi crap. They have a big building or may look important only because they are officially a "secular" organization supposedly just representing the Hubtard's *cough* literary estate. They do that "Writers of the Future" contest too. They have more of a need to impress the "wogs" since they are supposed to promote Hubbard's non-scientology writing.

I do know a lot of SO thought of ASI as a bit of a plumb position because they got paid far more than a typical SO member, because ASI is "secular" they had to follow minimum wage laws, etc... So you actually got paid at least minimum wage at ASI which is fortune compared to typical SO pay, and things like SS tax, workers comp and unemployment insurance. They wear civvies, etc.. so it actually has some of the comforts of working for secular company as opposed to 100% SO. (Though we know it all is SO and the cult tries to skirt every rule they can to ensure that, but they still have to walk a fine line.) IIRC SO members at ASI got more deducted from their pay and were expected to contribute some portion of their paychecks to the cult because of their substantially higher pay.

They are also probably one of the very few organizations in the SO that are expected to interact, to any substantial degree, with the general public and society at large to promote the non-scio shit of Hubbard. (Of course, the whole point is to use the secular sci-fi crap to spark greater interest in Hubbard in general, and hopefully lead them to the bridge to total free dumb!! )

Some Ex-SO here could probably fill in more details and possibly correct anything I may have misunderstood, but this is the general gist of ASI or was up until the last decade or so - my source of info. is a bit dated so changes could have been made since 2000.


ASI at one time was considered the highest org in Scientology...higher than RTC.

I'm telling you what I know from my perceptions as a service org staff member (amoeba on the food chain) in PAC.

The ASI staff lived in the PAC berthing building. They lived on "the fifth floor". The fifth floor in PAC was the Senior Exec floor. It didn't look like any of the other floors. It was perfectly kept up. The hallways were carpeted. The rooms were decorated in any way the people who lived on that floor requested. They had their own private elevator. Senior execs, people like CO CMO Int and others who would come to PAC regularly, had rooms on the fifth floor. DM had a suite on the fifth floor. There was a large picture window in DM's suite which could be seen from the hallway. Through it you could see, neatly on shelves, his shoe collection, there for public viewing. (Never did quite understand that...)

I was married to someone in Estates, and I would say that a good 80 percent of his time was dedicated to the whims and needs of those on the fifth floor. I remember one day where he was desperately needed for something on the base, but he couldn't do it because he was busy installing gold fixtures in Marc Ingber's bathroom. Or the time he was renovating a room for Bitty Miscavige because there was blue in it. (Bitty didn't like blue.) There was a staff of people who did their laundry, cleaned their rooms, took care of all of their personal needs.

The point is, when the rest of the staff were crammed like sardines into dungeons where the ceilings were on the verge of collapsing, the people who lived on that floor got the royal treatment.

At one point in the 80s DM was running all of Scientology from ASI. This was of course wildly against all corporate rules and regulations, but naturally he didn't give a shit and did it anyway.

It was only years later after I got out that I learned about the abuse of staff by DM at ASI. Stacy Young was a staff member there at one time and wrote quite a bit about what went on there when she used to post to ARS. Unfortunately a lot of the ARS archives have disappeared. At some point I'll try to dig up some of the stuff she talked about. It made me a lot less envious of their supposed "status", believe me. They were up close to the Miscavige insanity and it was not fun.


I just found a piece of information from Stacy's affidavit in the late 90s about ASI and the position it held at one time.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/dec_sy970313.html


24. In early 1982, I was posted as the Special Project PR Assistant under my husband, Robert Vaughn Young. Several months later, Special Project became what is now Author Services, Inc. (ASI) as described earlier, a for-profit company whose ostensible purpose was to be L. Ron Hubbard's literary agency. I was taken out of PR and made the Organizing Officer for ASI in April, 1982. Miscavige appointed Terri Gamboa Executive Director of ASI. He gave Norman Starkey the title of Legal Affairs Director of ASI. He gave Lyman Spurlock the title Corporate Affairs Director. In my position as organizing officer, I worked directly under David Miscavige, who was chairman of the Board of ASI, ("COB ASI"), to carry out his orders concerning the staff of ASI.

25. David Miscavige, known as DM, has been the head of Scientology since 1981. He ran the Scientology Empire from ASI until early 1987. He moved the seat of power of Scientology from ASI to the Religious Technology Center ("RTC") in 1987, during a period of time when the IRS wall investigating ASI's ties to the non-profit corporations of Scientology. At that point, he appointed himself Chairman of the Board of RTC, which is his current title. The fact is that Miscavige runs Scientology as a dictator regardless of which corporation he is part of. The corporate structure of Scientology is purely a cloak used to shield Scientology from all outside control.

26, Although ASI was established as a for-profit, non- religious corporation, in reality, while DM was COB ASI, the staff of ASI ran the entire Scientology network. This included the Church of Scientology of California, ASI had complete control over the management of all Scientology orgs and missions, all Office of Special Affairs activities (the Office of Special Affairs is the successor organization to the functions previously performed by the Guardian's Office), all transfers of funds between Church accounts and LRH accounts, every aspect of life of anyone who was a Scientologist, whether staff or public, (These powers were moved to RTC in 1987, when Miscavige appointed himself COB RTC.)

 
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Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Boojum, I hear you. There is warmth and understanding and compassion in your post above.
These are traits that Jenny does not have.
She is feared only 2nd to Miscavige.
Her power and cruelty is a copycat of DM, it has increased exponentially over the years. I could tell you 1000 stories of Jenny but won't waste my time.

But I will give you one anecdote of Jenny in action with "unlimited Ethics powers" to demonstrate her mind set.

Cece served at the Advanced Org Los Angeles AOLA mostly in Treasury for 20 years. She did everything in her power to serve her group at the time. Handling irate delinquent merchants who were fed up not being paid, she expertly managed it all even when numerous vendors were not paid for 90 days.

Money is siphoned off to the "Top of the Org Board" before merchants and vendors are paid.

Then one day Jenny deVocht CMO INT Executive and David Miscavige "PET#1" comes to Los Angeles with her mad lunatic THUGGERY powers and runs into Cece in the elevator. Cece is on a modified scheduled due to a health condition.

Jenny devocht (Linson) has found out about shorter schedule. She tells Cece "you have 15 minutes to pack your bags and get off the Base !" Thus 20 years of savage schedule, less than minimum wage and all contribution was rewarded with Cece ordered off the base leaving behind her kids and husband in the Sea org. There was no compassion that Cece had served 20 years and has a little medical condition needing a modified schedule. She was kicked out for not being able to work ENOUGH.

Cece was thrown out on the curb. There was no $500 parting money to make it for the first week, she was slung out onto L Ron Hubbard Way penniless and with her remaining family left in the Sea Org.

20 years of slave labor, no health insurance, no pension, no retirement. "Get off our property in 15 minutes !" That is Jenny Devocht. The Gestapo Nazi identity could change a life in 15 mins. The year was 1995/1996

I had Cece over to my home for Thanksgiving dinner last year with a bunch of others who made it through the hell and survived. Even now, 20 years later Cece's tears rolled down her cheeks at dinner at how she was brutally kicked off and out enforcing family disconnection impoverished, destitute and without a cent to her name.

A Jenny Linsen PRODUCT.!

This is the Cult. So what else is new ?
ceceheadshot.jpg

Cece Marie Smith

That's awful! I am forever thankful that I left when I did (1991). When I was in, the cult was crazy, but afterwards it went into a full on psycopathic spin!

Karen, did she get her kids back?
 

Leland

Crusader
ASI at one time was considered the highest org in Scientology...higher than RTC.

I'm telling you what I know from my perceptions as a service org staff member (amoeba on the food chain) in PAC.

The ASI staff lived in the PAC berthing building. They lived on "the fifth floor". The fifth floor in PAC was the Senior Exec floor. It didn't look like any of the other floors. It was perfectly kept up. The hallways were carpeted. The rooms were decorated in any way the people who lived on that floor requested. They had their own private elevator. Senior execs, people like CO CMO Int and others who would come to PAC regularly, had rooms on the fifth floor. DM had a suite on the fifth floor. There was a large picture window in DM's suite which could be seen from the hallway. Through it you could see, neatly on shelves, his shoe collection, there for public viewing. (Never did quite understand that...)

I was married to someone in Estates, and I would say that a good 80 percent of his time was dedicated to the whims and needs of those on the fifth floor. I remember one day where he was desperately needed for something on the base, but he couldn't do it because he was busy installing gold fixtures in Marc Ingber's bathroom. Or the time he was renovating a room for Bitty Miscavige because there was blue in it. (Bitty didn't like blue.) There was a staff of people who did their laundry, cleaned their rooms, took care of all of their personal needs.

The point is, when the rest of the staff were crammed like sardines into dungeons where the ceilings were on the verge of collapsing, the people who lived on that floor got the royal treatment.

At one point in the 80s DM was running all of Scientology from ASI. This was of course wildly against all corporate rules and regulations, but naturally he didn't give a shit and did it anyway.

It was only years later after I got out that I learned about the abuse of staff by DM at ASI. Stacy Young was a staff member there at one time and wrote quite a bit about what went on there when she used to post to ARS. Unfortunately a lot of the ARS archives have disappeared. At some point I'll try to dig up some of the stuff she talked about. It made me a lot less envious of their supposed "status", believe me. They were up close to the Miscavige insanity and it was not fun.


I just found a piece of information from Stacy's affidavit in the late 90s about ASI and the position it held at one time.

http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/dec_sy970313.html


24. In early 1982, I was posted as the Special Project PR Assistant under my husband, Robert Vaughn Young. Several months later, Special Project became what is now Author Services, Inc. (ASI) as described earlier, a for-profit company whose ostensible purpose was to be L. Ron Hubbard's literary agency. I was taken out of PR and made the Organizing Officer for ASI in April, 1982. Miscavige appointed Terri Gamboa Executive Director of ASI. He gave Norman Starkey the title of Legal Affairs Director of ASI. He gave Lyman Spurlock the title Corporate Affairs Director. In my position as organizing officer, I worked directly under David Miscavige, who was chairman of the Board of ASI, ("COB ASI"), to carry out his orders concerning the staff of ASI.

25. David Miscavige, known as DM, has been the head of Scientology since 1981. He ran the Scientology Empire from ASI until early 1987. He moved the seat of power of Scientology from ASI to the Religious Technology Center ("RTC") in 1987, during a period of time when the IRS wall investigating ASI's ties to the non-profit corporations of Scientology. At that point, he appointed himself Chairman of the Board of RTC, which is his current title. The fact is that Miscavige runs Scientology as a dictator regardless of which corporation he is part of. The corporate structure of Scientology is purely a cloak used to shield Scientology from all outside control.

26, Although ASI was established as a for-profit, non- religious corporation, in reality, while DM was COB ASI, the staff of ASI ran the entire Scientology network. This included the Church of Scientology of California, ASI had complete control over the management of all Scientology orgs and missions, all Office of Special Affairs activities (the Office of Special Affairs is the successor organization to the functions previously performed by the Guardian's Office), all transfers of funds between Church accounts and LRH accounts, every aspect of life of anyone who was a Scientologist, whether staff or public, (These powers were moved to RTC in 1987, when Miscavige appointed himself COB RTC.)


Thank you Lulu Belle, your post confirms what I had thought, that ASI did run the C of $ for awhile...and was the "top org."

I remember Norman Starkey's speeches at the Shrine Auditorium Events...very well.

Was he Scottish? And what has happen to him? Was he in the hole, along with the other execs....

When on stage...giving his speeches....Well...it was interesting. He was older than DM...And came across as a grown man....unlike Davey Miscabage. But....his the speeches were always a bit of a clone of DM's rhetoric style. (perhaps the same speech writer?) And a bit tooooo forceful...and animated. IMO.

Geeze, it makes me embarssed to think of those Events...and the public and staff at the shrine.....all cheering and clapping and standing....and doing all those things.....

I can recall, observing...whatever speaker was on stage....and their "expecting" what the crowds would do and how they would react...to the cheering and applause....

It was all so scripted......

:eyeroll:
 

Leland

Crusader
I can recall seeing Cece at AO.

Hope she is OK with being forced out.....and is recovering and doing well.

All the best to you Cece.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yea, That confused me too....

Back in the 1990's it was kinda a rumor in Scientology public (in LA ) that ASI was "secretly" the "top org" within the C of $ cult structure. (at least that was what I heard)

I thought this was because ASI controlled the LRH copyrights.

They had a rather substantial building on Hollywood Blvd. Plus right next door was another building...that I didn't know what ORG controlled....( I had heard it was a conference area...or something like that....I've forgotten what the sign said..)

If anyone here could talk about this a bit....and perhaps shed some light on this rumor....I'd appreciate it.

Thanks...

When I joined the SO in 1985, David Miscavige was on the post of ED of ASI. I think he had taken that post to position himself on a direct line to LRH. ASI was created to handle all of LRH's affairs, investments, and so on. They were basicly his personal staff and included his most trusted aides such as the executor of his will. Lyman Spurlock was D/ED of ASI at the time and was also "Archives Ops". That is, he was the direct senior of CST/LRH Archives, which was also not on the org board, but was a pet project of LRH's and was not trusted to the CoS heirarchy who would tear it apart for more important personnel hill tens if they ever got the chance. CST got its orders and its money from ASI. The whole purpose of all the leatherbound autographed books and the prints of the book covers being sold for heaps of money was to pay for the tech preservation project. As with ASI, CST and Archives was manned by SO personel but was not part of CoS.

I was also at Int/Gold for a short period in 1985. I was pretty green as an SO member and found it pretty shocking that the supposed creme de la creme of Scientology management were cloistered away and tightly controlled (not trusted) in every aspect of their lives. One day, everyone was running around looking hounded and basicly just plain scared. "DM's on the base" was relayed in hushed tones. I (being green and unindoctrinated as to SO ways) piped up, "Who's DM?" Someone with a horrified look on their face replied, "David Miscavige". In a nutshell, it appeared that DM was executing a reign of terror on the base. But he was not posted there so it only happened occasionally, at that time.

Within the year, two significant things happened. DM made his first public appearance at LRH's drop the body event, and he busted Vicki Aznaran (Inspector General of RTC) off post, basicly by a coup as he had no actual authority to do anything with her or anyone else in RTC, CMO etc. He replaced her with Greg Wilhere who had most recently been ASI staff and was a subordinate of DM. The other three were also posted at that time, Marty, Mitoff, and IG Admin (Yeager???)

DM continued to appear at events, basicly portraying himself as the head honcho but never saying his post, always introduced by name only. Eventually after a few years, it was revealed that he had appointed himself COB of RTC, putting himself on the new and most senior post in the CoS structure.

And the rest is history....

So Leland, as far as "rumour" that ASI was secretly the top org, it's yes and no. By sheer force, it's yes. ASI staff were always dressed to the nines, drove new cars, the latest model every year, an demanded the best berthing, like a twelve person dorm being cleared out for one person to live in, and so on. Nobody dared even question them, it was just instant compliance.

I guess it's kinda like CoS being a "church". What is official is not necessarily the reality.

I hope this sheds some light on the position and function of ASI.
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
I had made a couple quick vids of the screaming woman....some 1 second clips....that I looped. The vids were no more than 15 seconds long.

PTS Type 4 had suggested I "monetize" my vids on YouTube....after seeing the green witch one. I had never thought of doing that...but a couple clicks on my YouTube manager, and it was done.

Now YouTube has contacted me. Marty Rathbun...and the Company he hired ( I suppose) to manage the copyright and sell his LAX video, filed a complaint against me with YouTube, for Copyright infringement.....LOL LOL LOL LOL

So....I fought it a bit.....but then said ....WTF!

BUT.....then Marty's video management Company.....Continued the MONETIZATION of MY VIDEO WORK......taking the money.

So, I said WTF again, and deleted them.

:melodramatic:


Wow. WTF indeed! That was really stupid of them. For now, my preferred explanation is that the company he hired was simply acting according to their assignment, and Marty wasn't asked - in this case I'm curious what he says when he gets notified by them, although we might not get to know of his reaction, what a pity. :biggrin: However, if he was involved, this was a really, really stupid move of him. :confused2:
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
Why?

Paul

Because at last when a watcher gets to the original video and watches it as well, one will tend to take sides with Marty (in this) and/or Scientology critics, and dislike Scientology Inc. and DM, get more information on Scientology's crimes, etc. :unsure: I mean, isn't this a foot bullet for Marty?
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm not sure he is really the sole source of leadership. Even in its attenuated state, the Co$ is too large and too geographically spread to respond to the control of a single person. What has happened is that executive positions go unfilled, and control of local orgs and global organs devolves to the next lowest person in the COC, violating any number of Laffy's orders about hats and hatting. There are now large numbers of unofficial command systems, broken chains of communication, and I suspect individual fiefdoms in places like Taiwan that are far from Davy's make-believe Navy HQ.

That's a very interesting point. I have no evidence, but it somehow strikes me as immediately plausible. Little outposts of Scientology are indeed scattered all over the world, after all, and for all Miscavige's micromanagement, he is only one man. So now that you say it, it just seems obvious that there must really be at least two Churches of Scientology — sort of like the old Christian notion of the visible and invisible Church, only somewhat tilted.

Firstly there's the CofS market brand, with its shows and publications and websites and fundraising drives and fancy buildings. This brand is global, although not in the sense of being huge. It has money and spokespeople and lawyers. David Miscavige is firmly in charge of it.

But then there's the CofS as a somewhat loose association of actual people, in small to tiny groups scattered around the world. There are some thousands of these people, in total; at various times in the past, at least, there have been some tens of thousands. And in fact it might be worth distinguishing two Churches within this group: the loosely attached public and the local staff.

Any group bigger than a handful tends to develop layers like this. It's probably also worth recalling that Scientology is more like a business than like a religion, and whereas religions may have clergy and adherents, businesses have employees and customers. The Pope might have a hard time enforcing the excommunication of a lay Roman Catholic, but not even Steve Jobs could do anything at all to stop an Apple fanboy from buying iPads. So it was probably never reasonable to think that Miscavige should ever have had total control over all of Scientology. The connection between top and bottom of the pyramid was always bound to be rather loose.

But maybe there really are signs that in this case the looseness is approaching a point of dissolution. Maybe we'll see a lot of orgs pulling completely away from the central structure.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
That's a very interesting point. I have no evidence, but it somehow strikes me as immediately plausible. Little outposts of Scientology are indeed scattered all over the world, after all, and for all Miscavige's micromanagement, he is only one man. So now that you say it, it just seems obvious that there must really be at least two Churches of Scientology — sort of like the old Christian notion of the visible and invisible Church, only somewhat tilted.

Firstly there's the CofS market brand, with its shows and publications and websites and fundraising drives and fancy buildings. This brand is global, although not in the sense of being huge. It has money and spokespeople and lawyers. David Miscavige is firmly in charge of it.

But then there's the CofS as a somewhat loose association of actual people, in small to tiny groups scattered around the world. There are some thousands of these people, in total; at various times in the past, at least, there have been some tens of thousands. And in fact it might be worth distinguishing two Churches within this group: the loosely attached public and the local staff.

Any group bigger than a handful tends to develop layers like this. It's probably also worth recalling that Scientology is more like a business than like a religion, and whereas religions may have clergy and adherents, businesses have employees and customers. The Pope might have a hard time enforcing the excommunication of a lay Roman Catholic, but not even Steve Jobs could do anything at all to stop an Apple fanboy from buying iPads. So it was probably never reasonable to think that Miscavige should ever have had total control over all of Scientology. The connection between top and bottom of the pyramid was always bound to be rather loose.

But maybe there really are signs that in this case the looseness is approaching a point of dissolution. Maybe we'll see a lot of orgs pulling completely away from the central structure.

Two EXCELLENT posts. It IS difficult to enforce uniformity over such a diverse and spread area. Hmm.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I had made a couple quick vids of the screaming woman....some 1 second clips....that I looped. The vids were no more than 15 seconds long.

PTS Type 4 had suggested I "monetize" my vids on YouTube....after seeing the green witch one. I had never thought of doing that...but a couple clicks on my YouTube manager, and it was done.

Now YouTube has contacted me. Marty Rathbun...and the Company he hired ( I suppose) to manage the copyright and sell his LAX video, filed a complaint against me with YouTube, for Copyright infringement.....LOL LOL LOL LOL

So....I fought it a bit.....but then said ....WTF!

BUT.....then Marty's video management Company.....Continued the MONETIZATION of MY VIDEO WORK......taking the money.

So, I said WTF again, and deleted them.





:melodramatic:



Ahhhhh, so for Marty, it is all about the money . . . . ? :hmm::unsure: :wtf:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
When I joined the SO in 1985, David Miscavige was on the post of ED of ASI. I think he had taken that post to position himself on a direct line to LRH. ASI was created to handle all of LRH's affairs, investments, and so on. They were basicly his personal staff and included his most trusted aides such as the executor of his will. Lyman Spurlock was D/ED of ASI at the time and was also "Archives Ops". That is, he was the direct senior of CST/LRH Archives, which was also not on the org board, but was a pet project of LRH's and was not trusted to the CoS heirarchy who would tear it apart for more important personnel hill tens if they ever got the chance. CST got its orders and its money from ASI. The whole purpose of all the leatherbound autographed books and the prints of the book covers being sold for heaps of money was to pay for the tech preservation project. As with ASI, CST and Archives was manned by SO personel but was not part of CoS.

I was also at Int/Gold for a short period in 1985. I was pretty green as an SO member and found it pretty shocking that the supposed creme de la creme of Scientology management were cloistered away and tightly controlled (not trusted) in every aspect of their lives. One day, everyone was running around looking hounded and basicly just plain scared. "DM's on the base" was relayed in hushed tones. I (being green and unindoctrinated as to SO ways) piped up, "Who's DM?" Someone with a horrified look on their face replied, "David Miscavige". In a nutshell, it appeared that DM was executing a reign of terror on the base. But he was not posted there so it only happened occasionally, at that time.

Within the year, two significant things happened. DM made his first public appearance at LRH's drop the body event, and he busted Vicki Aznaran (Inspector General of RTC) off post, basicly by a coup as he had no actual authority to do anything with her or anyone else in RTC, CMO etc. He replaced her with Greg Wilhere who had most recently been ASI staff and was a subordinate of DM. The other three were also posted at that time, Marty, Mitoff, and IG Admin (Yeager???)

DM continued to appear at events, basicly portraying himself as the head honcho but never saying his post, always introduced by name only. Eventually after a few years, it was revealed that he had appointed himself COB of RTC, putting himself on the new and most senior post in the CoS structure.

And the rest is history....

So Leland, as far as "rumour" that ASI was secretly the top org, it's yes and no. By sheer force, it's yes. ASI staff were always dressed to the nines, drove new cars, the latest model every year, an demanded the best berthing, like a twelve person dorm being cleared out for one person to live in, and so on. Nobody dared even question them, it was just instant compliance.

I guess it's kinda like CoS being a "church". What is official is not necessarily the reality.

I hope this sheds some light on the position and function of ASI.

Good points all

As always with the CofS it is not the "org" it is where the center of gravity is, whatever name it is given.

Davey was head of ASI because, IIRC - as part of MCSO one of the first actions was aimed at getting Hubbard paid his "backlogged" royalties and this had to be done carefully because Hubbard would end up with some whopping tax bill and then came the whole Minimum book stocks with NEP and Pubs allowed to just basically take the org checkbooks and just order the books and ship them and write themselves a check. Orgs that could not afford the book stocks were "given" involuntary SOR loans. All so Hubbard could get 'his' money. Frannie and the other ASI execs made a bundle in bonuses of course - nothing like just waving your fingers and writing checks and wow! Making one's targets!!!

Anyway - just some gossip about why the "Ticks of ASI" liked to cluster around the old sewer...
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
< snip >

Davey was head of ASI because, IIRC - as part of MCSO one of the first actions was aimed at getting Hubbard paid his "backlogged" royalties and this had to be done carefully because Hubbard would end up with some whopping tax bill and then came the whole Minimum book stocks with NEP and Pubs allowed to just basically take the org checkbooks and just order the books and ship them and write themselves a check. Orgs that could not afford the book stocks were "given" involuntary SOR loans. All so Hubbard could get 'his' money.

< snip >
Knowing what I know about this period, it never made sense to me that LRH took so much effort to collect "his money" in the early eighties. His estate rumored to be well over $400 million at his death.

Included was the destruction of the mission network to make this happen, BTW.

Why would someone go through the onerous job of moving the money from the COS and/or SO reserves into his personal control and accounts (facing enormous potential tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks) knowing that his time on earth was pretty severely limited (as he spoke about in the long letter to David Mayo in the early 80's)?

Only at his death just a couple years later to face the onerous job of moving the money from his personal control and accounts back to the COS and/or SO reserves into (facing enormous potential death tax liabilities, legal hassles and risks).

From what I understand, his family got only a tiny bit of the entire LRH estate, a few million, the balance of it going back into SO reserves or somewhere to further his religion.

The transfer of tens, hundreds of millions back and forth at his age and imperiled medical condition only tells me he was not "playing with a full deck" mentally at the time. Just never made sense to me and does not seem that well thought out of an "end-of-life" financial strategy.

I'm not that smart about high finance but I would know enough to not attempt the transfer of that much money (especially at his age and medical condition). He just didn't need it and couldn't spend it or benefit from it. :confused2:

To me this is reliable evidence of a deteriorating mental state and impaired thinking later on in his life.

Comments from anyone better informed than me?
 
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