an apologia to free to shine

[Commander Birdsong]

Commander, I can think of nothing more devastating than losing a child. A death is worse than disconnection, which by itself is a mini version of hell. Many families go through similar events but scientology exacerbates it to a full version of hell.

You are an auditor, right? What does an auditor do?

An auditor listens per one of the normal dictionary definitions.

A scientology ‘auditor’ has an exactly prescribed method of how they listen and what to think and that is where it goes wrong.

So be a ‘normal’ auditor and just listen to the stories like mine .... absorb them .... they are full of truth. You don’t have to entertain, deflect or be mysterious. Just listen. Compassion and empathy come with understanding what is evil and what is not. By truthfully sharing experiences we can start to let go and live and love again.

well...

getting hit in the head with a sixteen pound sledgehammer swung by an enraged 500 lb sumo wrestler might be more devastating

still a shattered skull and a live son would be preferred

yeah...

a scientology auditor was overly prescribed then and i hear it's worse now. a free auditor can accept cognitions a scio auditor often refuses

but that's another story...

of course i very often do just listen to stories told on esmb

then other times i put in some comment, often contrapuntal. when i get back to bahhstin i'll expand on my response

nice to hear from ya, i feel the condolence you express and am grateful for it...

 

[Type4_PTS]

<snip>
it is my contention that by reason of my personal bereavement i have a unique right to speak in favor of the virtues of the subject in the presence of those who have suffered loss by reason of CoS policy and actions

<snip>

By this reasoning a person who lost family members to the Nazi Holocaust would have a unique right to go onto a message board for Holocaust survivors and sing the praises of Hitler who he happens to be a big fan of.

I disagree, and IMO it's a violation of the ESMB forum rule #1

i do not intend offense in speaking as i speak on esmb and i would submit that the appelation "troll" is only due those who intend offense

Given your history of posting on this board I tend to doubt your sincerity on this point. I could easily dredge up dozens of posts where the intention behind them was clearly to offend.

But even if I am wrong on this point is there any practical distinction between a "troll" who posts with the intention to upset people and an apologist who knows his postings will upset people but just doesn't care?

 

[Commander Birdsong]

"Apologia" is the Latin word from which the English "apology" comes, but the English word has diverged in meaning a bit over the centuries. What the two words have in common is the sense of someone who has offended other people saying something to try to win back their acceptance. The two words now refer to quite different ways of going about that, however. An apologia is not an admission that one was wrong, requesting forgiveness. It is an argument saying that one was not wrong at all: a self-justification. Once upon a time, every educated speaker of English used to know Latin; and so the Latin word 'apologia' is still also sometimes used in English, with its Latin meaning (which in turn comes directly from Greek).

This also means that the English adjective 'apologetic' has two meanings. Ordinarily it means that one is humbly admitting fault and appealing for forgiveness, but it also has a technical meaning in philosophy and theology, based on the Latin apologia, and referring to an assertive argument trying to justify a point of view. Apologetic theology is not apologizing, in the colloquial sense. It's basically proselytizing, in the sense of trying to support a certain religious view with argument. It contrasts with dogmatic theology, which sounds more aggressive but isn't, because dogmatic theology is concerned with simply explaining very clearly exactly what one believes, without any attempt to defend it.

now then SOT...

i do not intend apologia as self-justification or proselytizing

but...

i do advocate a full dialectic process for exscientologists

you are an educated layman. would you be so generous as to do for the word "dialectic" as you have done for the word "apologia"?

so...

there's some food for thought during my hiatus (a subtle jazz allusion for the denizens of the five spot) perhaps grist for conversation

"a full dialectic process for exscientologists"...

what is the commander thinking of?

o...

never mind...

the commander is just playing some sort of game so he can be a further detriment to the community

 

[George Layton]

So many distractions. The auditor training is an enhancement of the passion, vanity. The auditor is made aware of the fact that anyone one born is in need of auditing. Anyone who ever existed, on Earth, along the whole track is in need of auditing. Those special ones that have gone through the auditors training processes developed by hubbard and his team are THE ONLY ONES that have the knowhow that it takes to save humankind. That is what is instilled into the training of an auditor. The saviors of the race. The ONLY saviors of the race. The only ones that have the true training. That training that was discovered only just recently (64 years ago) and the only true hope humankind has. If auditors convince themselves that the above is true data, they fall into the passion of vanity. Some may develop an arrogance that is behind their awareness. They may not see it for that because of the self involvement that has been built up by the training. How difficult it must be to let go of being one of the only saviors of humanity and trade it for the realization that it has been a build up of delusional thinking.

 

[Type4_PTS]

So many distractions. The auditor training is an enhancement of the passion, vanity. The auditor is made aware of the fact that anyone one born is in need of auditing. Anyone who ever existed, on Earth, along the whole track is in need of auditing. Those special ones that have gone through the auditors training processes developed by hubbard and his team are THE ONLY ONES that have the knowhow that it takes to save humankind. That is what is instilled into the training of an auditor. The saviors of the race. The ONLY saviors of the race. The only ones that have the true training. That training that was discovered only just recently (64 years ago) and the only true hope humankind has. If auditors convince themselves that the above is true data, they fall into the passion of vanity. Some may develop an arrogance that is behind their awareness. They may not see it for that because of the self involvement that has been built up by the training. How difficult it must be to let go of being one of the only saviors of humanity and trade it for the realization that it has been a build up of delusional thinking.

Sounds like you need some auditing...
































...just kidding.

 

[Balthasar]

By this reasoning a person who lost family members to the Nazi Holocaust would have a unique right to go onto a message board for Holocaust survivors and sing the praises of Hitler who he happens to be a big fan of.

I disagree, and IMO it's a violation of the ESMB forum rule #1

You are forgetting one thing Type4_PTS. The majority of Scn Exes have been perpetrators. Not all though. There are many exceptions. I am talking about the majority. I can hardly see how someone who worked as Exec at any level for prolonged time in the SO or even lower Org, can easily identify himself as victim but not as perpetrator.

My personal observation is, the more Scio advanced in time, the more the ethical values of their members declined. That means, being Scientologist closer to present time would increase also the likelihood of having been a perpetrator. That's because control of members has tightened.

Now, what are your crimes Type4?

 

[Type4_PTS]

You are forgetting one thing Type4_PTS. The majority of Scn Exes have been perpetrators. Not all though. There are many exceptions. I am talking about the majority. I can hardly see how someone who worked as Exec at any level for prolonged time in the SO or even lower Org, can easily identify himself as victim but not as perpetrator.

My personal observation is, the more Scio advanced in time, the more the ethical values of their members declined. That means, being Scientologist closer to present time would increase also the likelihood of having been a perpetrator. That's because control of members has tightened.

I'm not forgetting that one thing B.

And I agree with much of what you say here.

Scientology acts like a virus, first victimizing the hosts and then turning the victims into perpetrators who than in turn infect others.

Now, what are your crimes Type4?

I worked full time for 9+ years for an international terrorist mind control cult disguised as a religion and proceeded to promote this organization on an international basis as well as provided support to others who did the same.

I suppose I should start a thread entitled "An [STRIKE]apologia[/STRIKE] apology to all mankind", or words to that effect.

Could even be a book project.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

That's what happens on Birdsong threads.
However I did say something, though as you probably have me on ignore you can't see it. Or it meant nothing.

Do you mean post #11? I basically saw that as agreeing with me.

And no, I don't have you on ignore.

Helena

 

[eldritch cuckoo]

now then SOT...

i do not intend apologia as self-justification or proselytizing

but...

i do advocate a full dialectic process for exscientologists

you are an educated layman. would you be so generous as to do for the word "dialectic" as you have done for the word "apologia"?

so...

there's some food for thought during my hiatus (a subtle jazz allusion for the denizens of the five spot) perhaps grist for conversation

"a full dialectic process for exscientologists"...

what is the commander thinking of?

o...

never mind...

the commander is just playing some sort of SP/PTS HANDLING game so he can be a further detriment to the SP/PTS community

​

 

[Claire Swazey]

So many distractions. The auditor training is an enhancement of the passion, vanity. The auditopower - but not like what cult leaders do. That's how you tell they're creating a cult, not a freeing movement. made aware of the fact that anyone one born is in need of auditing. Anyone who ever existed, on Earth, along the whole track is in need of auditing. Those special ones that have gone through the auditors training processes developed by hubbard and his team are THE ONLY ONES that have the knowhow that it takes to save humankind. That is what is instilled into the training of an auditor. The saviors of the race. The ONLY saviors of the race. The only ones that have the true training. That training that was discovered only just recently (64 years ago) and the only true hope humankind has. If auditors convince themselves that the above is true data, they fall into the passion of vanity. Some may develop an arrogance that is behind their kkawareness. They may not see it for that because of the self involvement that has been built up by the training. How difficult it must be to let go of being one of the only saviors of humanity and trade it for the realization that it has been a build up of delusional thinking.

I never cared much for auditor training and resented being told I had to be an auditor.

That being said, I think the idea that everyone needs auditing is cribbed from Buddhist ideas of enlightenment. IMO, Hubbard was trying to reinterpret and revise Buddhism. Not that I think he did it or at least didn't improve on Buddhism - but I think that's where he was coming from. Ie: we aren't enlightened.

For someone who derided mysticism and mystics, Hub was quite mystical but wouldn't admit it.

If we humans were all enlightened, there'd be no burglaries, meth labs, rapes, wars...

But, otoh, if Hubbard really wanted to free everyone from all that, he'd not have had high prices, staff contracts, freeloader debts, disconnection, etc. He'd have lived simply and devoted his time to trying to help. A truly altruistic guy wouldn't have dreamed of having an RPF.

Buddha didn't do any of that. The Dalai Lama doesn't, either. (RPF, abuses, etc)I never heard of Jeses, Moss or Maimonodes doing that stuff, either.

I don't begrudge clergy or a sect leader some comforts, decent accommodations, enough for overhead and promotion, and some power to run things. But when it's insanely lavish, staff and other members live in penury and everyone gets punished, then the person is only a cult leader and will not enlighten.