Believing in delusions make them true?

[I told you I was trouble]

Personally I think everyone should have one of these hats. My whole internet experience has changed since I started wearing this. :wink2:

I completely agree (and it doesn't look at all silly).



Handy for when you're in Italian cooking mode too.

 

[Glenda]

I completely agree (and it doesn't look at all silly).

Style and protection, combined. It is advisable to remove the hat prior to going to the supermarket (or work, etc.) - or so I have discovered. :wink2:

 

[lotus]

OHHHHHHHHHH
AYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sister is back



Dark times and atonement are gone
Sex - chocolate and wine are back again

I was almost dying in the deadly seriousness deep dark well
Don't do that anymore

So happy to see you Glenda

 

[Free to shine]

Just so this thread is not totally derailed - tin foil hats and garlic can come in very handy with delusions.

 

[Hypatia]

I personally would like to slap the shit out of the pr flak who invented the advertising slogan "think for yourself".

 

[Glenda]

Just so this thread is not totally derailed - tin foil hats and garlic can come in very handy with delusions.

That was my exact point. I knew someone would get it. Woo hoo.

Oh God have I got stories to tell...

I could be real serious and describe the "delusional crap" I have run into (mine and others). I could discuss the cruel parameters that belief systems wrap around the cognitive ability of individuals and how damn dangerous that is. I could dissect how it impacts on the behaviour and emotional experiences of individuals. The numbness, the illogical irrational weird conclusions reached. It is like seeing the world through a narrow tunnel but thinking you are actually holding a broad "sensible" view. Delusion.

 

[Glenda]

OHHHHHHHHHH
AYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sister is back



Dark times and atonement are gone
Sex - chocolate and wine are back again

I was almost dying in the deadly seriousness deep dark well
Don't do that anymore

So happy to see you Glenda

Happy to see you too sister. Very happy.

The things I saw, and heard, during my sabbatical - OMG. It's a scary world out there. Delusion hides in interesting places. But ya know what? The work I have done is holding up well and I didn't join any mind controlling cults or sell my soul to any devils. Whew.

It is so good to be back! My [STRIKE]world[/STRIKE] village view has shifted. I have learned more about myself. I understand the cult experience even deeper now and the potential for it to, years later, automatically impact without one being aware of it. Thankfully I have the "tools" (& a good support network) to dive in and inspect what the hell is happening - but it wasn't sweet stuff to dig out.

So let's get the really good chocolate out, and dance!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I personally would like to slap the shit out of the pr flak who invented the advertising slogan "think for yourself".

You can start with Hubbard - his 'if it's not true for you, it's not true" is just as bad. BTW, I think I know what Hubbard's favorite plant was....

 

[Glenda]

I was listening to a youtube vid when someone who seemed to be an ex talked about how they still subscribe to the dogma 'whatever is true for you is true'.

Horse biscuits.

Just because someone believes in a fallacy doesn't make it automatically true. If what is 'true to them' happens to really be not true, then they are simply deluded. If they think they have the power to make something true by simply believing it's true, why do they think they need the cult?

I believe Hubbard was an 'ultra-thelemist', which means he considered his will to do something gave him the right to do it. I also think he believed he could alter reality with his 'postulates' and that the more people he got believing something, the more true it would be, or something along those lines.

Huh-uh. Doesn't happen.

Sure, you can delude lots of people to believing something that isn't true, but it doesn't make it true, no matter how 'true' it is to you!

It's distressing to me to find out about people that have broken away from the cult, but continue to hold on to these false doctrines. This is just one of a few I've ran across.

I say throw the baby out with the bathwater, because I think it was Rosemary's.

Belief is dangerous stuff. Especially when it is dangling delicious carrots such as "eternal freedom"; "freedom from the birth-death cycle"; "cleaning up the entire planet"; blah blah blah.

I too have run into folk who have left what they term "organised scientology" but who are shut down to moving towards acceptance that the system Hubbard designed (stolen from others, etc., etc.) was a somewhat sophisticated form of spiritual slavery. I hesitate to judge these folk who remain confined within what I term the "mind control tunnel" because, for me, it was damn hard work to break out of the mental prison. I realise the fears others face. However, ultimately it comes down to choice.

The "false doctrines" you mention, to me are like the tunnel walls - the invisible prison walls that one is conditioned to never look through. Dismantling those walls (the deeply entrenched conditioning) takes work, real work. It is not a one-step-all-is-fixed - flick a switch - process. The scientology conditioning actually works hard against individuals even when they do decide to "give it all up". The training, right from day one, creates an identity, a perspective, that one is capable of "super powers", is "better than", elite. That conditioned in arrogance removes humility which is absolutely necessary if one is to make any genuine personal growth, and move towards one's own sense of self. That sense of self is not based on any system, religion, others ideas, etc.

Scientology prohibits any real personal growth (true sense of identity/self) because everything is based on a systemic approach to "spiritual freedom".

I am concerned this may not make any sense. These are fairly deep concepts for an old(er) gal like me.

 

[JustSheila]

Belief is dangerous stuff. Especially when it is dangling delicious carrots such as "eternal freedom"; "freedom from the birth-death cycle"; "cleaning up the entire planet"; blah blah blah.

I too have run into folk who have left what they term "organised scientology" but who are shut down to moving towards acceptance that the system Hubbard designed (stolen from others, etc., etc.) was a somewhat sophisticated form of spiritual slavery. I hesitate to judge these folk who remain confined within what I term the "mind control tunnel" because, for me, it was damn hard work to break out of the mental prison. I realise the fears others face. However, ultimately it comes down to choice.

The "false doctrines" you mention, to me are like the tunnel walls - the invisible prison walls that one is conditioned to never look through. Dismantling those walls (the deeply entrenched conditioning) takes work, real work. It is not a one-step-all-is-fixed - flick a switch - process. The scientology conditioning actually works hard against individuals even when they do decide to "give it all up". The training, right from day one, creates an identity, a perspective, that one is capable of "super powers", is "better than", elite. That conditioned in arrogance removes humility which is absolutely necessary if one is to make any genuine personal growth, and move towards one's own sense of self. That sense of self is not based on any system, religion, others ideas, etc.

Scientology prohibits any real personal growth (true sense of identity/self) because everything is based on a systemic approach to "spiritual freedom".

I am concerned this may not make any sense. These are fairly deep concepts for an old(er) gal like me.

It makes perfect sense. You have a wonderful knack for expressing yourself well.

Welcome back, Glenda. I've missed you hugely, too.

Re. delusions, I've just gotten fast Internet installed and a smartTV so I now have NetFlix. One of the first tv series I watched on it was the 'Happily Ever After' series. It's a lot of fun, with all our favorite childhood characters from Snow White to Robin Hood.

The characters keep changing, though, as they go through different experiences. The good start showing their bad sides, the bad start showing their good sides, and it's fascinating to see how different influences affect them and how those who were once enemies become friends.

Love and humility were the only qualities that kept the characters at their best, but even love sometimes led to some bad or selfish decisions that hurt others. Humility never did.

I don't think the writer intended it that way. It just came out like that. After a while, I got tired of the magical stuff, too. It was just one more ego trip or power trip for the characters.

I think you'd enjoy the series.

 

[Jump]

It makes perfect sense. You have a wonderful knack for expressing yourself well.

Welcome back, Glenda. I've missed you hugely, too.

Me three.

 

[Glenda]

It makes perfect sense. You have a wonderful knack for expressing yourself well.

Welcome back, Glenda. I've missed you hugely, too.

Re. delusions, I've just gotten fast Internet installed and a smartTV so I now have NetFlix. One of the first tv series I watched on it was the 'Happily Ever After' series. It's a lot of fun, with all our favorite childhood characters from Snow White to Robin Hood.

The characters keep changing, though, as they go through different experiences. The good start showing their bad sides, the bad start showing their good sides, and it's fascinating to see how different influences affect them and how those who were once enemies become friends.

Love and humility were the only qualities that kept the characters at their best, but even love sometimes led to some bad or selfish decisions that hurt others. Humility never did.

I don't think the writer intended it that way. It just came out like that. After a while, I got tired of the magical stuff, too. It was just one more ego trip or power trip for the characters.

I think you'd enjoy the series.

Hey dear woman.

Sounds like a fascinating series. Interesting observations you make about love and humility being the qualities that tended to influence the behaviour of the characters for the better. It's got me thinking here. What is strength and what is weakness?

There is a strong tendency to want to "wall up", to put in place self-protective avoidance and denial. Vulnerability feels unsafe and insecure. And vulnerability is often perceived by others as weakness, pathetic and other devaluing terms. Vulnerability tends to allow the cruel to act out their own inability to be truly vulnerable - the ego trips and power trips get unleashed and demand power and control over others. That's how I view Hubbard. A man on a huge ego trip, grabbing as much power and control as he could to ease his own inner emptiness. It failed him, badly, because he died a sad, sick, lonely old man, with only servants in attendance to attend to his needs. No family were there to hold his hand or wipe his brow. All that false power, stolen control - and stashed money - did not bring him anything close to that which every human deeply desires. To feel loved, to belong. It was all so plastic, so contrived, so meaningless.

His delusions, inflicted on so many others, brought him the opposite of what a "life well lived" tends to bring. I don't think the pursuit of freedom and the "magic" tricks people engage in during that seeking, brings much love. I could be very wrong. Maybe Hubbard was as happy as a pig in mud, dying alone like he did.

I need coffee.

 

[Glenda]

Me three.

Dear Three,



ML
Glenda

 

[lotus]

Delusion hides in interesting places. But ya know what?
The work I have done is holding up well and I didn't join any mind controlling cults or sell my soul to any devils. Whew.

Good for you sis - Standing tall , keeping aligned with the inner wisdom

Now, to me life is like an ''all you can eat'' buffet , an we are all potential obeses
(I don't try anymore to handle all potential obeses...only to watch me - that's a lot of work )

In the begining we can either jump in it or avoid the junk food buffet restaurant not to succumb

then, with a little training,
we can enter the restaurant, when we are real hungry,
take a little time to spot the little good healthy food in the buffet,
eat the good stuff,
and leave withouth any further thorough inspection of what's really happening there... lol
(i.e what stuff and how they cook it- who endlessly eat it and how...)

* I like you mention of both vulnerability and humility - both have been so much supressed and seens as flaws in the cult (replaced with certainty - power over MEST OCDs) but in fact those are the 2 most strong pillars to make a good sail in life. It takes muuucccccchhhhh courage and strenght to let them arise despite priorly feeling naked without any defense wall.

 

[Glenda]

Good for you sis - Standing tall , keeping aligned with the inner wisdom

Now, to me life is like an ''all you can eat'' buffet , an we are all potential obeses
(I don't try anymore to handle all potential obeses...only to watch me - that's a lot of work )

In the begining we can either jump in it or avoid the junk food buffet restaurant not to succumb

then, with a little training,
we can enter the restaurant, when we are real hungry,
take a little time to spot the little good healthy food in the buffet,
eat the good stuff,
and leave withouth any further thorough inspection of what's really happening there... lol
(i.e what stuff and how they cook it- who endlessly eat it and how...)

* I like you mention of both vulnerability and humility - both have been so much supressed and seens as flaws in the cult but in fact those are the 2 most strong pillar to make a good sail in life. It takes muuucccccchhhhh courage and strengt to let them arise withouth felling naked and in fear.

Really like your analogy of the buffet. After so many years of being in the "one-size-fits-all" cult restaurant, the senses get dulled, the internal systems get numbed and dysfunctional. It takes a lot of internal solitary work to get it all working well again.

I think that no one would ever get caught up in destructive controlling cults/relationships if they really deeply knew their own vulnerabilities. Cults lead us away from ourselves, fill us up with false delusional concepts which bond us to the menu - and create more internal blindness (self-destructive patterns).

I don't think I fully grasped the reasons why some remain "faithful" to the menu (the tek) even though they claim to have left the table. Recent events/experiences have helped me observe this in a closer way. I became fascinated by what I observed. Truly experiencing one's own vulnerabilities, healing them (greater or lesser) is possibly the only true freedom. I don't have answers. I probably never will.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Good for you sis - Standing tall , keeping aligned with the inner wisdom

Now, to me life is like an ''all you can eat'' buffet , an we are all potential obeses
(I don't try anymore to handle all potential obeses...only to watch me - that's a lot of work )

In the begining we can either jump in it or avoid the junk food buffet restaurant not to succumb

then, with a little training,
we can enter the restaurant, when we are real hungry,
take a little time to spot the little good healthy food in the buffet,
eat the good stuff,
and leave withouth any further thorough inspection of what's really happening there... lol
(i.e what stuff and how they cook it- who endlessly eat it and how...)

* I like you mention of both vulnerability and humility - both have been so much supressed and seens as flaws in the cult (replaced with certainty - power over MEST OCDs) but in fact those are the 2 most strong pillars to make a good sail in life. It takes muuucccccchhhhh courage and strenght to let them arise despite priorly feeling naked without any defense wall.

Lotus

Cue Tom Petty song "Wall's"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfS6Nl962Qg

 

[Some Random Guy]

"data" and "datums" are two different concepts, sirrah ! ! ! !

Happy motoring.

Thanks mate!

Unfortunately you have displayed the ability of concentrating on the wrong points in my comments .

Maybe that ability is needed to continue to believe in Mr Hubbards' delusion called scientology?

Or are you just being a good adherent by practicing prevarication.

 

[Leon-2]

Not at all. The rest of your post simply did not merit a reply.

 

[Gib]

Not at all. The rest of your post simply did not merit a reply.

Leon, what's your take on the OT levels?

Do have perfect recall of whole track incidents on the time track?

 

[lotus]

Leon, what's your take on the OT levels?

Do have perfect recall of whole track incidents on the time track?

On [STRIKE]this[/STRIKE] those planets ????