Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

Perhaps I am dense - but why would people blowing due to Arcx's rather than overts = Hubbard losing control of Scientology? Or is it because he had gone so far down the road of overts = blow, to change horses that drastically would destroy his "Hubbard has it all taped" myth, and all of his believers would see he was no better than the other ologys out there.

You know, if he had done a good job of research and development in the first place, and been the ethical person he claimed he was, none of this would have come to pass. I always wondered why he couldn't see it. Perhaps he did, but by then he had a tiger by the tail...

I was reading some of his OODs that VV publishes - maybe he was more delusional than I give him credit for. Or maybe he had to feed his ego at any cost. He had a captive audience after all.

Mimsey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Perhaps I am dense - but why would people blowing due to Arcx's rather than overts = Hubbard losing control of Scientology? Or is it because he had gone so far down the road of overts = blow, to change horses that drastically would destroy his "Hubbard has it all taped" myth, and all of his believers would see he was no better than the other ologys out there.

You know, if he had done a good job of research and development in the first place, and been the ethical person he claimed he was, none of this would have come to pass. I always wondered why he couldn't see it. Perhaps he did, but by then he had a tiger by the tail...

I was reading some of his OODs that VV publishes - maybe he was more delusional than I give him credit for. Or maybe he had to feed his ego at any cost. He had a captive audience after all.

Mimsey

Seems, to me, to have to more with flows in that once could look at an ARCX as what was DONE to one whereas an overt is what one has done to another or others.

See? It was never what scn DID TO one it was always what one HAD DONE to scn.
Immense difference.....and designed to be introverting.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Perhaps I am dense - but why would people blowing due to Arcx's rather than overts = Hubbard losing control of Scientology? Or is it because he had gone so far down the road of overts = blow, to change horses that drastically would destroy his "Hubbard has it all taped" myth, and all of his believers would see he was no better than the other ologys out there.

You know, if he had done a good job of research and development in the first place, and been the ethical person he claimed he was, none of this would have come to pass. I always wondered why he couldn't see it. Perhaps he did, but by then he had a tiger by the tail...

I was reading some of his OODs that VV publishes - maybe he was more delusional than I give him credit for. Or maybe he had to feed his ego at any cost. He had a captive audience after all.

Mimsey


My take on it is that if its generally recognised that people leave because of ARCX it shows the organisation at fault. Now the ARCX could be because of a missed withold, but most are probably more to do with injustice or similar.

That is a bigger problem to handle than pulling some witholds. However
thats not IMO a good strategy. Pilot said that a good reform would be to give the Chaplain some real teeth. As well as handling the individual with auditing he could investigate the injustice and do something about it which is in fact a beneficial qual handling of outpoints in the org.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
While it is MORE sane to say people blow from ARC-Xs than to say they blow because of O/W's......that is not really the total picture either.

NAZI ALERT!

What if someone escaped a concentration camp?

Was it because they were ARC-Xen?

I don't think so.

That is a very odd, culty way to look at things.

They escaped because they were being tortured, terrorized and killed.

What's wrong with English?

So why did Scientologists "blow"?

The first part of the answer is THEY DID NOT BLOW.

They escaped.

And they didn't escape because of their "case" (ArcX, O/W, etc...)

They escaped because they became smart enough or strong enough to escape.

Or thru sheer desperate self-preservation.

That ain't no ArcX.

That's sanity.

That is sanity. That wasn't a "blow". That was the able becoming more able.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Here is my story about brainwashing

As you know I have tried unsuccessfully to get this posted elsewhere. I have tried also to tell this story many times since it occurred to me that it might be helpful, but it does not seem to be of interest or there is a lot of apathy out there which is certainly understandable. I retell this here as it is about the tech and I think its useful in explaining a lot of what has happened over the years.

Firstly, I swear that this is the absolute and complete truth even though it occurred 37 years ago.

Secondly, a little about me which might put things into perspective as to why I saw what I am about to say as very significant and in a way horrific.I was in the SO for a little under 14 years. I attained the "rank' of Lt. Commander through promotions only by Hubbard. I was OEC and FEBC(trained by Hubbard) , HSDC, Class nine when I left in December 27 1981, as well as DSEC, Nots auditor, plus assorted other stuff. I was OT five plus nots, plus sec checked up the wazoo over the years. I also audited between 3-4000 hours conservatively speaking-probably much more, a lot of this was under Hub as the C/S. I spent about 3 1/2 years working with Hubbard pretty directly on the ship at various posts.I got to know him as well as anybody did.
My last position was Chairman of the Board and ED Int both by directive of LRH personally.

OK

Thirdly and to the point of all this preamble, on one night in 1974 I found myself in David mayo's office in the tween decks of the Apollo.
It was very late or early in the morning. We were ,I believe in the port of Safi, Morrocco. A student of mine, I was currently D of T and Mayo was Flag Snr C/S, had blown. Hubbard was extremely angry with us due to this blown student of mine on the FEBC program. In an attempt to show Hubbard what we had done to handle this guy we collected up all the sec checking that he had received over the last 2 months, it had been a lot poor guy, and presented it to him along with an outline of this student's progress on the courses he had taken. We had also wanted to show him how we had been careful that he hadn't gone by misunderstoods, etc.

We waited and waited and about 0300 hrs a messenger came down with a Despatch written by LRH. My memory does not recall any folders being returned. The despatch was entitled Very Confidential underlined. "He went onto say that if you or Franks ever reveal any of this information that I am about to reveal, the consequences will be severe for SCN."
He then wrote" a person does not blow due Overts or Witholds. He blows only due to ARC BKs".
"However, If any of this information ever became public,I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole".signed "LRH"
Both Mayo and me looked at one another completely incredulously. I cannot speak for Dave but I was completely flabbergasted as I realized at that point of digestion that he is talking about something that 75-80% of the tech is premised upon. Furthermore, the OEC/FEBC was currently anchored by the latest" development" at the time -being the L's, L-10,11, & 12.which for tose who don't know is about OW's. I don't believe Mayo or I talked about this again until we were out where I saw him at his auditing facility in Montecito, California in 1983. I believed we were a bit shell shocked about this.
As for me, I began to see more and more that scientology was merely a big prison camp. I stayed in for another 7 plus years but I was always mindful of this and always had in mind changing this "tech". I believe it is the key to what we have all seen and experienced as brainwashing.

That is all. I hope someone who want to use this will do so as there is no doubt that there is good in the tech it is just a matter of where is it.
How do you sort out the good and the bad and at the same time keep the good without throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I regret that I could not fix this during my tenure.

Best, wogman Bill Franks

Fucking bollocks!

I blew because I was tearing off sheets of bogroll, stuffing them in my armpits and making good my escape. I must have swiped a million dollars worth from the London Org.
 

crm1978

Patron with Honors
What a profound insight Hubbard sometimes told the truth may be without realizing it.It may be one of the central control methods that Hubbard used it does a great job of keeping attention focused on the self and off of the tech or the faults of Hubbard It can also be bad for ones spiritual health to be accused of things you did'nt do It has become a way of dealing with disaffected members and is a form of mental abuse Sec checking has become a way of life in the cult of Dave.
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Brainwashing, Bill Franks and the Message Run

Hi,
I talked to Bill about this and have also confirmed the message run through a source close to David Mayo.

It makes sense; did you leave because you committed some huge crime? Probably not. You left because of abuse, human rights violations, or some other form of harrasment.

Does a wife leave because she commits adultery, no she usually leaves because the husband does, she loses trust and feels abused and hurt.

I am currently writing a series of articles on Disconnection which might be of interest, plus have written articles on "Freedom of Thought, and how to Return to Freedom.

My site is: http://www.scientologyrecovery.com which has a thought stopping exercise which helps with mind control and "brainwashing".

I was trained by Hubbard and am counseling again.

I help anyone who feels they have abused by Scientology or other destructive groups.

Glenn


I left staff because I couldn't take it anymore. I just wasn't surviving working 9am to midnight getting my stats up and yet not having a paycheck to cover just basic expenses. It went on too long. I was in comm with everybody on staff, no upsets with the other staff, no O/W's I committed. I was in HCO, the most "ethical" person in the group and I was doing that. But I couldn't take it anymore, money was not coming in. And because I knew I would have to get auditing for sec checks, I just blew. I made the decision and just left one day. It really had nothing to do with the god dam tech of it. It was just survival. So I guess one could also call it escape.

But, I had wogs jobs before, never blew, just guit because I wanted to go on to greener pastures. And all the jobs I quit and moved onto, didn't work out and I got my old job back from the company I had just quit. So now this stupid tech is gonna tell me I had ARCX's or O?W's ----------------BS.

The only tech of it is really the god damn believing the PR of it all, eternity, case, reactive mind, bank, the tech, case gain, only hope for mankind. :wtf: Me sucker:yes:

This is what is true for me. And my comparison of data in my mind.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Hubbard was always spouting that "the only reason for this is that", but he had a habit of changing his mind.

Personally I think that "the only reason anyone anyway blows is O/W's" is idiotic even for Hubbard.

In most cases, I think it was more like "this is rubbish - I've had enough."

But I do understand that the revelation about the ultrah sekrit memo is a big thing for tekkies.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Hubbard was always spouting that "the only reason for this is that", but he had a habit of changing his mind.

Yes, I once had one student on HSDC who mentioned that very thing to me.

The difficulty about it, at that time, was his trying to remember which previous HCOB that contradicted the HCOB that he just read.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Bump_hippo.jpg
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
As a person of considerable technical expertise, I can authoritatively state that the only reason Scientologists blow is over-inflation. Too much pressure.
 

Gib

Crusader
Yes, I once had one student on HSDC who mentioned that very thing to me.

The difficulty about it, at that time, was his trying to remember which previous HCOB that contradicted the HCOB that he just read.

Do you mean like when Golden Age of Tech came out and DM says the blind were leading the blind, and all auditors must retrain, doesn't matter how many hours you have audited or even if you were trained by the guru himself.

:wtf::ripped:
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors

Hey everybody, it's time for a pop tek quiz! There's only one question, but nobody has ever passed it.

1. Per LRH, the ONLY reason for a student of scientology to blow, is:

a) missed withholds
b) misunderstood words
c) overts

Take your time!
 

Gib

Crusader
Hey everybody, it's time for a pop tek quiz! There's only one question, but nobody has ever passed it.

1. Per LRH, the ONLY reason for a student of scientology to blow, is:

a) missed withholds
b) misunderstood words
c) overts

Take your time!

All my creditors called in their chips, so I had to work 24/7 to pay them back, so I could continue on course as a student.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
As a person of considerable technical expertise, I can authoritatively state that the only reason Scientologists blow is over-inflation. Too much pressure.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. There is a section of Hubbard text in which he talks about "responsibility" (I don't remember what HCOB or PL) but most staff or ex staff are aware of it. In this text Hubbard states that every person must take responsibility for every destructive act which occurs. For example, if a car accident occurred in Keokuk, Iowa the previous night where a drunk motorist killed a bicycle rider, the person reading about this must assume responsibility for the event.

Hubbard goes on to say that for most people this statement is "out gradient" but at the top of the "Bridge" the person will look at things in this manner. We staff members sometimes discussed this topic in the coffee shops. Pretty much we all agreed that none of us were at the level where this was true for us but we believed that Hubbard had reached this level and that all of us would some day reach it as well. We were naive, very, very naive to accept this as being true.

This was perhaps Hubbard's ultimate effort to over inflate every staff member!

As to the main issue which G Wells posted and attributed to Bill Franks, it makes perfect sense. Smila's "over inflated" comment still applies because having too much pressure will likely lead to one having an ARC break.

It is so revealing and ironic that LRH would knowingly perpetrate a lie and false data as a major building block in his supposedly pure tech so that he could allegedly keep control of his Staff and Orgs.

In this way, he himself went around permanently with a huge withhold from all staff and public. By finally revealing his withhold to two staff members and demanding their secrecy, the withhold probably became a missed withhold because he could then wonder if his two trusted confidants had told anyone else! This became much more likely after those two left staff in the early 80's when Hubbard was still alive.

So many of the best staff have left, starting in the early 80's and continuing at an accelerated rate to the present day, and all have been falsely labeled as having committed overts against Orgs. Maybe some of them did but probably most of them did not commit overt acts against any Org. Hubbard should have known better. It should have been obvious to him that after he passed on, the Orgs would eventually fail if this lie was left in as part of his "tech". Perhaps he did it intentionally, perhaps he revealed the true data to a successor in a secret hat write up, say to Pat Broeker. Probably, we'll never know.
Lakey
 
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Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Lakey I tend to believe a great part of the SP & disconnection BS had to do with L Con TheTurd's deep desire to keep the group from hearing the true circumstances as to why the person was dispatched.

Now are there some people one does better by cutting ties & not being around ? Of course ! And as Hisself pointed out ( having most probably stolen from elsewhere ) that for a lie to 'work" it needs a grain of truth in it.

Both you & I - and most likely the great majority of people here - have seen people "declared" by Hisself" ( many "fair gamed") for purely political reasons. ( More thousands than any of can ever name!)

The Mini Me's of Hisself did their best to carry on the traditional of shattered people to the best of their ability.

He damn well "got" what he was doing. and as , I believe it, lived in stark terror of being his con being found out by his followers and/or the law.

Just my 1/2 cents reply :)
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lakey I tend to believe a great part of the SP & disconnection BS had to do with with L Con TheTurd's deep desire to keep the group from hearing the true circumstances as to why the person was dispatched.

Now are there some people one does better by cutting ties & not being around ? Of course ! And as Hisself pointed out ( having most probably stolem from elsewhere ) that for a lie to 'work" it needs a grain of truth in it.

Both you & I - and most likely the great majority of people here - have seem people "declared" by Hisself" ( many "fair gamed") for purely political reasons.

The Mini Me's of Hisself did their best to carry on the traditional of shattered people to the best of their ability.

He damn well "got" what he was doing. and as , I believe it, lived in stark terror of being his con being found out by his followers and/or the law.


Just my 1/2 cents reply :)

Yep! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'd say that reply was worth at least a buck three ninety eight.:coolwink:

As I've said before on ESMB, IMO, El Ron didn't give a Rat's Ass about what happened to any of Us or Scn after Hisself was gone. What he cared about was Hisself's "Legacy" and Smashing Hisself's name into History. That's why El Ron left most of Hisself's dough to create underground, impenetrable Mausoleums or Temples, a la the Pharaohs to preserve and exalt Hisself's digitally mummified and noble metal scribed Words, Image and Persona.:yes:

Face:)
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
There is a lot of truth to what you say. There is a section of Hubbard text in which he talks about "responsibility" (I don't remember what HCOB or PL) but most staff or ex staff are aware of it. In this text Hubbard states that every person must take responsibility for every destructive act which occurs. For example, if a car accident occurred in Keokuk, Iowa the previous night where a drunk motorist killed a bicycle rider, the person reading about this must assume responsibility for the event.

Hubbard goes on to say that for most people this statement is "out gradient" but at the top of the "Bridge" the person will look at things in this manner. We staff members sometimes discussed this topic in the coffee shops. Pretty much we all agreed that none of us were at the level where this was true for us but we believed that Hubbard had reached this level and that all of us would some day reach it as well. We were naive, very, very naive to accept this as being true.

This was perhaps Hubbard's ultimate effort to over inflate every staff member!

As to the main issue which G Wells posted and attributed to Bill Franks, it makes perfect sense. Smila's "over inflated" comment still applies because having too much pressure will likely lead to one having an ARC break.

It is so revealing and ironic that LRH would knowingly perpetrate a lie and false data as a major building block in his supposedly pure tech so that he could allegedly keep control of his Staff and Orgs.

In this way, he himself went around permanently with a huge withhold from all staff and public. By finally revealing his withhold to two staff members and demanding their secrecy, the withhold probably became a missed withhold because he could then wonder if his two trusted confidants had told anyone else! This became much more likely after those two left staff in the early 80's when Hubbard was still alive.

So many of the best staff have left, starting in the early 80's and continuing at an accelerated rate to the present day, and all have been falsely labeled as having committed overts against Orgs. Maybe some of them did but probably most of them did not commit overt acts against any Org. Hubbard should have known better. It should have been obvious to him that after he passed on, the Orgs would eventually fail if this lie was left in as part of his "tech". Perhaps he did it intentionally, perhaps he revealed the true data to a successor in a secret hat write up, say to Pat Broeker. Probably, we'll never know.
Lakey

Just joking Lakey, I'm not a tech expert, and I think people leave for all kinds of personal reasons.
 
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