Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview)

[Jquepublic]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

i don't believe in hubbard

i suppose i have a bit more respect for him than is common on this board but neither he nor his work is an object of belief for me

there's some interesting bits in his last writings and i'll be writing of them soon

very grateful to have you for a reader JQ

and the post was supposed to be a LOL thing

let yer hair down a little sweetheart

Oh, I'm not upset with you. Just blunt and to the point as always. I realize that sometimes makes me come across as warlike but for the most part, I'm not.

Re: a Christian Scientologist and how such a thing can be...It's the question of the hour, one nobody seems to be able to answer without resorting to deception, which is what I see in Juliette's interview. But ftr I'm glad to know you don't take Hubbard all that seriously. I think that's a healthy perspective.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

i'm sure most of you think intelligent christian is an oxymoron but there are many of us

Isn't practicing Christianity a violation of the Auditor's Code?

from: Auditor's Code:
I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

And how many Christians do you suppose would choose to become a "Christian Scientologist" if they were told the truth up front? That according to Hubbard, their existing religion is due to some false beliefs implanted trillions of years ago?

Or if they were to read:



I suspect that most Christians who knew what Hubbard really thought of their religion would not walk, but run out the door.

But deception is the only way he could grow an organization, so no surprise here.

heeheehee...

it's not funny, but it is awfully comic...

christians who take an interest in hubbard's work have always often had their sinuses clear up, smelt the dragon and left the place LIKE A BAT OUT OF HELL!!!

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

Oh, I'm not upset with you. Just blunt and to the point as always. I realize that sometimes makes me come across as warlike but for the most part, I'm not.

Re: a Christian Scientologist and how such a thing can be...It's the question of the hour, one nobody seems to be able to answer without resorting to deception, which is what I see in Juliette's interview. But ftr I'm glad to know you don't take Hubbard all that seriously. I think that's a healthy perspective.

i said ron is not an object of belief

i take the man and his work VERY seriously

hope you'll keep an eye on my COAS writing...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

Isn't practicing Christianity a violation of the Auditor's Code?

no

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

no

It seems to me that if you're receiving auditing everyday and at the same time practicing Christianity, including prayer, that that would be against the code.
Am I wrong?

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

Juliette Lewis - the muse for this thread earlier on stated she celebrated Christmas.

No wonder!

The Roy's for "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation" keep pouring in every year!

We're watching it right now while dressing our tree.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I think an individual interpretation of Scn can occur. I've met the occasional (rare, I think) Christian, even a Moslem once, who was in it.

That being said, I don't think Hubbard had much respect for elder religions, particularly the Abrahamic ones.

I think heresies, like anything else, come about and morph and remorph.

If I were giving advice as to what to believe (I realize that's really rare on Scn debate fora. ) I'd say that the farther one gets from organized religion, the better. Maybe organized religions can be the jumping off point and initial frame of reference. Theological training wheels. Eventually the training wheels need to come off.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

It seems to me that if you're receiving auditing everyday and at the same time practicing Christianity, including prayer, that that would be against the code.
Am I wrong?

you're not wrong

you're larry

christianity is an -ity not an -ism; christian is what you ARE not what you DO, though obviously what you do should proceed from what you are

now, of course, various christian denominations have their own "standard tech" derived from their theology and doctrines and both when auditing and even more so when training one might be well advised to place these on a back burner so to speak. a broken leg is nondenominational. if you have one do you want to be taken to an ER where they first want you to pray for the soul of whoever broke it? of course not. if you're getting a dianetic assist do you want an auditor to have you kneel and pray the lord's prayer after each F/N?

robert altman gives a textbook example of how not to practice medicine (and by extension how not to practice auditing) in M*A*S*H in the character of frank burns.

good questions

thanx

on the "shingle" thread i stated the five pillars of COAS and in placing the auditor's code second noted it is tweaked in favor of CoS. thanx for prompting further articulation

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

It seems to me that if you're receiving auditing everyday and at the same time practicing Christianity, including prayer, that that would be against the code.
Am I wrong?

yeah...

CoS is way fukked up about mixing practices and it does it's thing about slowly squeezing people into the "all ron, only ron, l. ron..." thing.

i never bought that and, many people don't and just have a season with the subject and then on. CoS thinks you have to have O/W's MU's ARCX's PTS, yadayada to move on; some kind of a problem (and if you don't they'll try to give you one) but many come and go often because they got what they wanted out of it. at least it was so back in the day

but anyway, one can try to hang a christian up in the letter of the code but the spirit of the thing is entirely wholesome

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

"....many come and go often because they got what they wanted out of it. at least it was so back in the day".....

When you say "many", do you mean more than 3 people?

During my ten years in I don't recall anyone leaving because "they got what they wanted out of it".

If they were getting what they wanted wouldn't they stick around and get more of it? Or help others get the same "wins" that they received?

 

[Idle Morgue]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

You sure can ~ until you get to the "part" that you are told all religions are an implant (except Scientology )! Can you spell m-o-n-e-y? Can you say SLAVE LABOR in exchange for nothing but a scam of epic proportions?

That is the why folks that Scientology exists ~ feeding the ego of a delusional science fiction writer that wanted to make a lot of money and smash his name into history!

He did both - but the claims in Scientology - he never accomplished!

L Con Hubbard was an epic failure!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

And how many Christians do you suppose would choose to become a "Christian Scientologist" if they were told the truth up front? That according to Hubbard, their existing religion is due to some false beliefs implanted trillions of years ago?

Or if they were to read:
...snip...

I suspect that most Christians who knew what Hubbard really thought of their religion would not walk, but run out the door.

But deception is the only way he could grow an organization, so no surprise here.

Or his references in lectures to his loyal students about his being the "Anti-Christ" and about Lucifer, etc...etc.

Some of the most ignorant people on the planet about Scientology are COS members.

 

[Freeminds]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

No: you can't be a Christian and a Scientologist. To be a Christian requires you to care, genuinely, about other people. To love your neighbour, to turn the other cheek, and to live a charitable life.

Scientology is all about the self. My case. My bridge. My eternity. My needs. My body thetans. Upgrading my IAS level. There is precious little in a Scientology victim's life that would qualify her for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Scientology was only ever a pseudoreligion, and only because Hubbard failed to sell it as a science. For a time, religious cloaking served to deflect criticism: no longer.

 

[Boomima]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

All of the positive answers to the question in the thread title seem to be "Yes, if you change the meaning of the words Christian and Scientologist."

So...the answer really is no.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

So...the answer really is no.

Correct!

But it's really bad for business to let people know this up front since such a large percentage of the population IS Christian. Too many people would run out the door if they were told the truth up front. Better to turn them into Scientologists as much as possible before allowing them to know Hubbard's real opinion of their religion based upon his "scientific research".

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

When you say "many", do you mean more than 3 people?

During my ten years in I don't recall anyone leaving because "they got what they wanted out of it".

If they were getting what they wanted wouldn't they stick around and get more of it? Or help others get the same "wins" that they received?

yes

many

they are wise and wily and move on quietly. ron spoke of such as "having other fish to fry"

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

All of the positive answers to the question in the thread title seem to be "Yes, if you change the meaning of the words Christian and Scientologist."

So...the answer really is no.

if you take only the simple definition of scientologist as someone who applies scientology to things in life and the simple defininition of christian as someone believes in that which is greater than ourselves, reads and applies scripture, and recognizes even if God did not annoint the nazarene 2000 years of history certainly has, i see no terminal conflict

tell me boomer, do you think someone can be both a christian and a dianeticist?

and...

just by the way...

your private beliefs are personal and your welcome to keep them confidential but it is pertinent to this dialogue to inquire if you are a professing christian

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

No: you can't be a Christian and a Scientologist. To be a Christian requires you to care, genuinely, about other people. To love your neighbour, to turn the other cheek, and to live a charitable life.

Scientology is all about the self. My case. My bridge. My eternity. My needs. My body thetans. Upgrading my IAS level. There is precious little in a Scientology victim's life that would qualify her for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Scientology was only ever a pseudoreligion, and only because Hubbard failed to sell it as a science. For a time, religious cloaking served to deflect criticism: no longer.

but the point is a christian can use the principles of auditing to benefit his neighbor, whom he or she loves and cares for deeply

when i was training in SF and on staff at fcdc i would not violate my own christian pinciples and i mostly received respect for my personal integrity. i never said "but scripture says 'yada-yada'" or proseletyzed in any way. and of course i was eventually disposed of by the fcdc GO.

right...

my primary education in scripture was inflicted upon me at puberty in a hellfire-and-brimstone calvinist church in masachusetts that made the southern baptists look like a pack of unitarians. one sunday i heard from the pulpit "in heaven you will find the good baptists which will surely not be all baptists and... maybe... a few methodists. there certainly won't be any catholics"

and bishop feeney was so notoriously wroth in consigning protestants to damnation even the pope thought he needed some feeneymint

yesyesyesyesyes... people have always told me "a christian can't do..."

yeah...

i figure they're probably right...

they certainly can find verses of scripture to support what they say...

o well...

i do not love for silver
i do not love for gold
my heart's mine to give away
it never will be sold

baby the rain must fall
baby the wind must blow
wherever my heart leads me
baby i must go
you know...
babeeee...
i...
must go

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

"if you take only the simple definition of scientologist as someone who applies scientology to things in life....."

Maybe you have a point here. But I've never seen or heard of anyone using this as a valid definition, except for the purpose of counting "Christian Scientologists".