"Clear cognition" is on Scientology's website! Fraud!

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
The Grade Chart sequence was changed after release of the issue about "Dianetic Clear is Clear". Prior to the change one could attest to Dianetic Clear as if it was a different State to a Clearing Course Clear.

Changing the sequence of Bridge actions was the only way continue to get people to do the Grades in light of the Non-Interference Zone datum and "Once you're Clear your next step is... etc".

By altering it the CofS continued to have a Bridge. All of which is kinda amusing. :)

That old grade chart doesn't say "Dianetic Clear". It says "Dianetic case completion". However DMSMH does talk about "clear" as a result of Dianetic auditing.

This is really interesting because this means that SCN could not admit (even in SCN tech) that Hubbard's assertion about Dianetic Clear was not entirely correct? So instead of correcting Hubbard's old stuff, thus saying that he made a mistake about "clear", they changed the grade chart instead? I am laughing and shaking my head. :duh:

A link to further corroboration on this item would be nice!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Yes. I remember attesting to Dianetic Case Completion. I might be mistaken but I think there was also a State of Dianetic Clear which could be attested to. I'd guess it was whenever someone originated the actual Clear Cog in the course of Dianetics. I myself attested to Dianetic Clear and probably have the Cert gathering dust somewhere. After that I continued auditing on the Grades and completed them. Then "Dianetic Clear is Clear...." came out and I was interviewed by the DofP and as a result of that interview invited to attest to Clear without the "Dianetic" qualifier. That's how I remember it. :confused2:

Re: Links. I'd guess Veda would be the best prospect, I can only just muster up sufficient interest to comment in general.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is the same EP as the current, correct?


Grade_Chart_1970.png

That EP looks like the EP from the late 70s and early 80s.

In the 80s they changed the EP to that no longer has his own reactive mind hogwash

Is this a currect grade chart? Did they change it back to the mental matter EP?

Gads they are like musical chairing the grade chart.

Rd00
 

RogerB

Crusader
The original Grade Chart was released in 1965 . . . I have something like 5 or 6 or is it 7 different versions? in my archives . . .

You'll see them arrayed side by side in these videos (if you want to spend some time on twoddle with an ace Twoddler . . . His presentation covers about 4 videos (4 parts of the presentation due to length limitations on YOuTube)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-pkN3Vxlxo&NR=1&feature=endscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=4m_xHTkSNis&feature=endscreen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkPsgpRA1Wo&NR=1&feature=endscreen
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Kinda hard to sue a new age cult for saying that some nebulous state could be achieved. Don't get me wrong- I think it's great to challenge them on this- and point to the fact (could even give specifics, mention people who are "Clear" and "OT") that these people routinely act irrational, things in their lives don't go well, they are obviously not exterior to their body.

But, boy, if I could sue them- if I were willing to spend the hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, if I had legal beagles, fistfuls of cash and a desire to get even more new gray hairs- here're the grounds on which I'd have loved to sue:

Treatment of staff
Not letting them leave
the insane freeloader debts where a person can work his or her ass off for years, with almost no money and still have to pay them
Enforced disconnection, abortion
Ruining people's businesses- those who were disconnected from by business partners, those who were pushed to give loans that were never paid back, etc
Slander and libel. The cult does this stuff all the time.
Poor conditions in the SO. Poor medical care. Lousy and insufificient food. Overwork.
Imprisonment- RPF, the Hall, etc.


Every single ex to whom I've ever spoken or corresponded has had horrific examples of all kinds of stuff that, in other venues, would be considered actionable.

Like here're a couple examples of smaller matters, but like I said, they pile up and it's inexcusable.

A young woman I know was discouraged from going to college since there'd be psych courses taught there. (Like so what, just ignore them if they offend your religious sensibilities. ) and then talked into joining staff.

Years ago, John and I were going to this event. The church changed the time. So then we couldn't go. John had just gotten back from being away for work 2 years, and we were trying to spend time together. I'd arranged something- a concert or something else, can't remember now- so when the cult changed the time of the event, it conflicted. So John told the Sea Org chickie that we couldn't go. And she said "Your wife is stopping you from going up the bridge, isn't she."

Ok, to me, that's slander. Again,very small potatoes compared to all the other crap that happens. But my point is, they chip away at people in a thousand different ways in addition to the more notorious and large scale abuses.

So that's what I'd sue for. Not achieving some pie in the sky wet dream.
And some of them are relatively little things but still egregious and they pile up. That's in addition to the big stuff.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
The emphasis on own is a get out of jail free card for scientologists. It puts the responsibility for any manifestation of "aberrated behavior" after going Clear squarely on the shoulders of others, in this case Entities/BTs/Valences etc.


... also suppressive connections and personal out-ethics. A person might be deemed to have a BT case but none of that matters in the Sec Check.

Get out of jail free card is exactly right. Dissonant "technical" philosophy and practices, yikes! :omg:

Hey dude, congratulations! You are Clear ... but you are not Clear.
 

Gib

Crusader
... also suppressive connections and personal out-ethics. A person might be deemed to have a BT case but none of that matters in the Sec Check.

Get out of jail free card is exactly right. Dissonant "technical" philosophy and practices, yikes! :omg:

Hey dude, congratulations! You are Clear ... but you are not Clear.

From a 1991 article by David Mayo, on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

Could David Mayo have also said, lets just imagine, that it was marketing considerations for any level EP of the "bridge to total freedom" ?

I mean, if one looks at any EP or ability gained on any level or grades of auditing,

one has to ask how could one go "PTS" and lose their case gain?

I mean in ARC straightwire completion, EP is knows he/she won't get any worse. So how can the person get worse from meeting or being involved with or listening to a supposed "SP". This no make sense to me.

And what I write above is what I thought when I first started reading the internet just 1 year ago after getting that debbie cook email.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

:lol:
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Here is the state of "Clear" defined on Scientology's own website:

[h=3]WHAT IS THE STATE OF CLEAR?
[/h] Clear is the name of a state achieved through auditing and describes



The full glory of the state of Clear has no comparable description in any writings existing in our culture. It is a goal Man has dreamed of achieving for more than 2500 years, yet the state of Clear is far above anything anyone even conceived of previously. Indeed, that one could become something far higher and better than a human being, personally and in a single lifetime, is a brand-new concept.

The state of Clear does exist today and is attainable by all. Thousands upon thousands of Scientologists all over the world are Clear and more achieve this state with every passing day.

I can't wait until the church of scientology gets sued for this fraud! Can someone please show me ONE CLEAR? Just one fricken clear, please???:whistling:

Hubbard laid out exactly what the whole con was, one piece at a time, in the PDC tapes.
* You get what you put your attention on. So... The first communication you get about Scientology and Dianetics defines - the reactive mind.
* Reality is agreement. You agree you have such a thing
* Games, players and pieces... You are now on the way to playing a really big game, and saving the whole planet...
(Does anyone hear the echoes of the movie Total Recall - the scene where the Recall salesman is selling Arnold Schwartzenegger a trip to Mars, with a special on traveling as a secret agent?)

That really big game is entirely in your head. You have a reactive mind because you are fighting a reactive mind. It's fucking brilliant (and really appalling) and it never ends. You are playing for blood, and so are all of the people around you, thus reality.

God, run as fast as you can, this stuff is a disaster.

And Miscavige is blowing it because he's busy making all of the current membership, dwindling as it is, into pieces, not even players. No one gets to play but his assholiness. If it weren't for Miscavige's case (which, doesn't really exist except in the game he's busy ending) this whole thing could go on for decades more. Hell, it was a lot of fun, to be part of saving a whole planet. The space opera was an exciting reality to hold, that we were all at one time racing through space, omnipotent and powerful beings, godlike.

And maybe there is a piece of that that is truth, because it still rings true.

But in Scientology any truth was and is completely corrupted.

zoltan-motivational.jpg
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
For Polliwog

Polliwog- you may've missed this one (and others like that) given some things you shared with me on a couple occasions. Thought I should go ahead and bump it for you.

BUMP

Kinda hard to sue a new age cult for saying that some nebulous state could be achieved. Don't get me wrong- I think it's great to challenge them on this- and point to the fact (could even give specifics, mention people who are "Clear" and "OT") that these people routinely act irrational, things in their lives don't go well, they are obviously not exterior to their body.

But, boy, if I could sue them- if I were willing to spend the hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, if I had legal beagles, fistfuls of cash and a desire to get even more new gray hairs- here're the grounds on which I'd have loved to sue:

Treatment of staff
Not letting them leave
the insane freeloader debts where a person can work his or her ass off for years, with almost no money and still have to pay them
Enforced disconnection, abortion
Ruining people's businesses- those who were disconnected from by business partners, those who were pushed to give loans that were never paid back, etc
Slander and libel. The cult does this stuff all the time.
Poor conditions in the SO. Poor medical care. Lousy and insufificient food. Overwork.
Imprisonment- RPF, the Hall, etc.


Every single ex to whom I've ever spoken or corresponded has had horrific examples of all kinds of stuff that, in other venues, would be considered actionable.

Like here're a couple examples of smaller matters, but like I said, they pile up and it's inexcusable.

A young woman I know was discouraged from going to college since there'd be psych courses taught there. (Like so what, just ignore them if they offend your religious sensibilities. ) and then talked into joining staff.

Years ago, John and I were going to this event. The church changed the time. So then we couldn't go. John had just gotten back from being away for work 2 years, and we were trying to spend time together. I'd arranged something- a concert or something else, can't remember now- so when the cult changed the time of the event, it conflicted. So John told the Sea Org chickie that we couldn't go. And she said "Your wife is stopping you from going up the bridge, isn't she."

Ok, to me, that's slander. Again,very small potatoes compared to all the other crap that happens. But my point is, they chip away at people in a thousand different ways in addition to the more notorious and large scale abuses.

So that's what I'd sue for. Not achieving some pie in the sky wet dream.
And some of them are relatively little things but still egregious and they pile up. That's in addition to the big stuff.
 

aegerprimo

Summa Cum Laude
Polliwog- you may've missed this one (and others like that) given some things you shared with me on a couple occasions. Thought I should go ahead and bump it for you.

BUMP

Kinda hard to sue a new age cult for saying that some nebulous state could be achieved. Don't get me wrong- I think it's great to challenge them on this- and point to the fact (could even give specifics, mention people who are "Clear" and "OT") that these people routinely act irrational, things in their lives don't go well, they are obviously not exterior to their body.

But, boy, if I could sue them- if I were willing to spend the hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, if I had legal beagles, fistfuls of cash and a desire to get even more new gray hairs- here're the grounds on which I'd have loved to sue:

Treatment of staff
Not letting them leave
the insane freeloader debts where a person can work his or her ass off for years, with almost no money and still have to pay them
Enforced disconnection, abortion
Ruining people's businesses- those who were disconnected from by business partners, those who were pushed to give loans that were never paid back, etc
Slander and libel. The cult does this stuff all the time.
Poor conditions in the SO. Poor medical care. Lousy and insufificient food. Overwork.
Imprisonment- RPF, the Hall, etc.


Every single ex to whom I've ever spoken or corresponded has had horrific examples of all kinds of stuff that, in other venues, would be considered actionable.

Like here're a couple examples of smaller matters, but like I said, they pile up and it's inexcusable.

A young woman I know was discouraged from going to college since there'd be psych courses taught there. (Like so what, just ignore them if they offend your religious sensibilities. ) and then talked into joining staff.

Years ago, John and I were going to this event. The church changed the time. So then we couldn't go. John had just gotten back from being away for work 2 years, and we were trying to spend time together. I'd arranged something- a concert or something else, can't remember now- so when the cult changed the time of the event, it conflicted. So John told the Sea Org chickie that we couldn't go. And she said "Your wife is stopping you from going up the bridge, isn't she."

Ok, to me, that's slander. Again,very small potatoes compared to all the other crap that happens. But my point is, they chip away at people in a thousand different ways in addition to the more notorious and large scale abuses.

So that's what I'd sue for. Not achieving some pie in the sky wet dream.
And some of them are relatively little things but still egregious and they pile up. That's in addition to the big stuff.

To Claire's list I would add a couple more:

Exposing staff to toxic chemicals (blue asbestos, etc.)
Exposing public and contractors to toxic chemicals KNOWING they are dangerous, for years and years.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
That EP looks like the EP from the late 70s and early 80s.

In the 80s they changed the EP to that no longer has his own reactive mind hogwash

Is this a currect grade chart? Did they change it back to the mental matter EP?

Gads they are like musical chairing the grade chart.

Rd00

If you go to the bottom left of the chart...actually the broadsheet outside the chart itself..you will see it was the grade chart published in 1970.

Also this thread reminded me in my very first few dianetics sessions I was asked for something and I responded that all I had was an image but it was just my imagination. And I was convinced to go ahead and run it. Sucker that I was, I did. :duh:
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you go to the bottom left of the chart...actually the broadsheet outside the chart itself..you will see it was the grade chart published in 1970.

Also this thread reminded me in my very first few dianetics sessions I was asked for something and I responded that all I had was an image but it was just my imagination. And I was convinced to go ahead and run it. Sucker that I was, I did. :duh:

DMSMH - there is a section that states that imaginary incidents can be run. Perhaps this is why some people can get "case gain" on OT3.

Hell if running out pink teddy bears from the 5th dimension rids me of ailments I will do so in a jiffy.

Rd00
 

Lavalyte

Patron with Honors
Here is the state of "Clear" defined on Scientology's own website:

[h=3]WHAT IS THE STATE OF CLEAR?
[/h] Clear is the name of a state achieved through auditing and describes



The full glory of the state of Clear has no comparable description in any writings existing in our culture. It is a goal Man has dreamed of achieving for more than 2500 years, yet the state of Clear is far above anything anyone even conceived of previously. Indeed, that one could become something far higher and better than a human being, personally and in a single lifetime, is a brand-new concept.

The state of Clear does exist today and is attainable by all. Thousands upon thousands of Scientologists all over the world are Clear and more achieve this state with every passing day.

I can't wait until the church of scientology gets sued for this fraud! Can someone please show me ONE CLEAR? Just one fricken clear, please???:whistling:

Easily done. If all you claim is that a clear is someone without a reactive mind, and you're the only one who can define the specious reactive mind, then it's easy to point at someone and say they do or do not have one.
You'll notice in your snippet they don't make any concrete claims on what a clear should be able to do or not do.
 
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