Death and Rebirth

[Voltaire's Child]

I have some thoughts on this. I didn't use the term "reincarnation" because that means to be reborn with one going higher or lower on the karmic wheel, sometimes with the implication that a supreme being is supervising, so to speak. Though there are many interpretations, and I do get that. So I'll just say rebirth.

I do believe in past lives. I remember some of them. Mostly snippets and impressions. Some solid memories included in that, though. I don't believe I have to work out any karma other than what I've assigned to myself. I do agree with Hubbard's ideas about that, though, where this gets aberrated and tangled up in many respects. He goes into a lot of detail about that, of course. Basically, though, it's postulates and irresponsibility. That's pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell. The rest (of Hubbard's stuff on this) are the hows and wherefores.

I was heavily into Dianetics last lifetime. I died soon after Scn was intro'd but hadn't thought it was a good idea. I thought people weren't ready for it. Looking around me at people I know who actually like it and other people who don't like it anymore, I think I may have been correct. I mentioned that here once and I kind of got yelled at but there is no need for anyone to feel bad about my saying that because when I said that I meant that it included me as much as anyone else. But in any event, I've been working on this stuff for a while, now.

Scientology has some great theories in it and I personally think that many of them are quite correct. I do think that it's much harder to actually deal with and straighten this stuff out (whether that be through auditing or Buddhist principles and meditation or anything else that produces effects) but what I want to look at in this thread is the nature of death and rebirth.

I had a big turning point a couple years ago when I found out whom I'd been last lifetime. It was no surprise to me that I'd been into Dianetics. But here's what did surprise me-- I am truly nothing like that person. We have some similar views on Dn and Scn and maybe a few traits in common- and when I was a kid I used to test out really well on aptitude tests on stuff that it seems that that person was good at but that I have zero aptitude at in this lifetime. Every time I used to get test scores, I used to crack up laughing over that one area.

But I'm really really different from this other person. This has led me to see that death isn't just about losing bodies and loved ones and even, sometimes- hey, man,where's my stuff? It's about losing one's identity. One's carefully honed and formed and crafted identity. I always figured, hey, same being, same personality. And my husband told me about something he did a couple hundred years ago that I can totally imagine him doing now. Classic John. But overall, it really does seem that with a new body, one picks up and evolves a new personality. Sure, some of it would be because one is shaped by life's experiences. (LRH even used to say that-- "Man is the sum total of his experiences"-- I used to go around saying that (this lifetime) and found to my surprise that LRH actually used to say exactly the same thing. But I always thought I'd known him before. Not bosum bodies, not claiming to have been someone who was there developing stuff with him...I just knew him a bit. A lot of people in the early days did. ) But back to this identity thing. I think that just picking up the new body and its genetic makeup already starts one on the creation of a new identity. The genetic makeup, the gender, how that body feels. I think maybe astrology plays a part to the same extent that being in Body A rather than Body B would on the same spiritual being. I had my chart done years ago and it was pretty spot on. Then a friend of mine was talking about websites that combine Chinese astrology with Western so a person might be a Dragon Leo or something. So I read mine and Jesus-- it was uncanny. (Oh, and guess what. I have Dark Sexuality. Whee! Couldn't resist sharing that)

So I think all these influences start affecting a person from Day One. It's not something that happens instead of or completely overrides one's nature as a being, Thetan X being Thetan X, but Thetan X who was born in a small wiry quick body that has a tendency toward asthma born under the sign of Capricorn and who was raised in a gypsy family is going to be really different from Thetan X born in a body that tends toward the tall and endomorphic under the sign of Libra with a bunch of planets in Gemini who was raised on the Kennedy compound.

I think that loss of identity is maybe the scariest thing for some people about death.

I'd be interested in thoughts about this but I do want to say that I put this in the Independent Field section for a reason. I don't need agreement or anything like that, but if someone comes on here slappin' me upside the head about how I shouldnt' be a Hubbardite and Scn is crap and I don't know what I'm talking about or you have more tech training than I and my granny wears combat boots- I will put you on permanent ignore. But polite debate's AOK with me. But I would also like to hear from other heretics about this.

 

[Abaddon]

That's a really interesting view. I've always believed that, while the soul may 'reincarnate', the being itself is different due to genetic and environmental variables. Perhaps that is just part of the journey? It would be a lot like hell to just repeat the same thoughts, attitudes, etc. over and over.

But, if personality is purely a product of the material organism, what does that leave for the soul?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

That personality can be not only mutable but that it tailors itself to and impinges on the person's body? And that the body impinges on it? That's what I'm starting to think. Two different things. I always thought the former but I'm seeing how the latter comes into play. I think if we all met our last lifetime selves we'd be very startled...

I always did notice that experiences really affect a person- and others have, as well. Nature vs nurture and all that. And I've seen genetics affect things, too. People aren't supposed to say that it can affect humans- that's a slippery slope and has been used by racists as an argument. But there are traits that scientists say may be hereditary. And those who've bred or shown animals know that even tempered sires and dams tend to make for even tempered offspring even though the young often are only around their parents for a few months, at most, generally.

Looking at astrology and other things-- I really think that those things impinge.

Maybe it's like this-- spirit or thetan is like jello poured into a mold. So the jello itself can taste like lime or cherry or be not sweet enough or someone accidentally put too much sugar or put salt in it or fruit chunks (ick!)-- and it will be different from some other one that was made, but it will be in the shape of a Christmas tree or something. It could have been a heart or a clover or something, but it ended up being poured into a Christmas tree.

Now, it can't JUST be about one's experiences. I met a lady who said she'd been abused as a kid and that was why she'd opted to remain single. Her free will, her choice, no way was she going to do that to anybody. And I knew a lady from a poor family. She always wanted to work hard and just live a pleasant productive life- which she did. But other family members did not. So she was raised same as they and made different decisions. Free will comes into play. But, too, it is easier to make nice decisions if one always was in nice surroundings. So it's got to be a combination. I really really think LRH was right to emphasize postulates. He also said that identities/beingnesses get overlaid on one another. So you end up with a guy who's being a this that was also a that and who used to be an XYZ and so he's not just a "this".

 

[Div6]

"Spirit" is an energy production and recording "device" capable of perception and decision.

The hardware changes from lifetime to lifetime. It could be an animal body, a different GE, different entity stacks, and of course different set-ups on the other dynamics. So while I have recalled numerous past existences, both on planet and off, I am not really interested in the content of them beyond recovering whatever "command value" they may have had by virtue of my own "postulates". And of course I find it of value to repair past upsets, etc. and have the restored arc manifest in the present.

As regards death, it has "survival value". Its an engine of change, whether it be escape from unwanted conditions, or the prospect of a new beginning. Of course having a body can be pretty fun at times too. Others, not so much.

 

[Abaddon]

I always did notice that experiences really affect a person- and others have, as well. Nature vs nurture and all that. And I've seen genetics affect things, too. People aren't supposed to say that it can affect humans- that's a slippery slope and has been used by racists as an argument. But there are traits that scientists say may be hereditary. And those who've bred or shown animals know that even tempered sires and dams tend to make for even tempered offspring even though the young often are only around their parents for a few months, at most, generally.

The effect of genetics on one's psychology is pretty well known and widely accepted. My favorite Professor described 'nature and nurture' as a complex dance between the two throughout our lives.

"Most physical traits and conditions — such as height, blood pressure, weight, and digestive activity — stem from many genes that vary in activity depending on environmental contexts. The same is true for all complex behaviors. Each is affected by multiple genes interacting with multiple environmental influences. For any given behavior, relevant genes and environmental factors number in the dozens, hundreds, or perhaps thousands." http://www.aaas.org/spp/bgenes/Chapter2.pdf (This is actually a pretty decent and accessible book, the index of which is available here: http://www.aaas.org/spp/bgenes/publications.shtml)

Maybe it's like this-- spirit or thetan is like jello poured into a mold. So the jello itself can taste like lime or cherry or be not sweet enough or someone accidentally put too much sugar or put salt in it or fruit chunks (ick!)-- and it will be different from some other one that was made, but it will be in the shape of a Christmas tree or something. It could have been a heart or a clover or something, but it ended up being poured into a Christmas tree.

That's an excellent metaphor and a very interesting view.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I have some thoughts on this. I didn't use the term "reincarnation" because that means to be reborn with one going higher or lower on the karmic wheel, sometimes with the implication that a supreme being is supervising, so to speak.

Actually no. Reincarnation pretty much means "in meat again". Specifically it just refers to undertaking another life. It may be hoped that "spiritual evolution" will result, but this is not a forgone conclusion. Some are slow learners.

Similarly, "transmigration" is the doctrine which specifically implies the entering as different species of lifeforms. This is also not implicit in "reincarnation".

I don't believe I have to work out any karma other than what I've assigned to myself.

Which is essentially what "karma" is. It comes from a root word meaning "action". It refers essentially to the fact that you are responsible for what you have done. That includes your decisions & considerations. Your actions through the "chain of causality" (i.e. cause & effect) condition the circumstances you must subsequently confront. In otherwords: you created it, now undo it.

"Karma" doesn't mean "an eye for an eye". That's a simplistic concept which has been used as a teaching tool.

Basically, though, it's postulates and irresponsibility. That's pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell.

See "karma" above. There may be some interesting additional "twists" - the question of "identity" is a fascinating one. However, I agree "postulates & responsibility" are fundamental to the whole and our major point of "case address".

... but what I want to look at in this thread is the nature of death and rebirth.

I had a big turning point a couple years ago when I found out whom I'd been last lifetime. It was no surprise to me that I'd been into Dianetics. But here's what did surprise me-- I am truly nothing like that person. We have some similar views on Dn and Scn and maybe a few traits in common- and when I was a kid I used to test out really well on aptitude tests on stuff that it seems that that person was good at but that I have zero aptitude at in this lifetime. Every time I used to get test scores, I used to crack up laughing over that one area.

But I'm really really different from this other person. This has led me to see that death isn't just about losing bodies and loved ones and even, sometimes- hey, man,where's my stuff? It's about losing one's identity. One's carefully honed and formed and crafted identity.

Yep. Actually this is a "good" thing. It demonstrates that "identity" is an object and not "self". Buddhist & Vedantic philosophy are very keen on this point. So is scientology, actually. "Be-Do-Have" is all about the "mocking up of identities". It's straight out of vedanta.

There are a lot of considerations about "identity" that need be addressed in the course of spiritual progress. That is what is significant about "clear" & "ot". They mark essential waypoints. The difficulties arise as a result of "identifying" with the "identity", essentially confusion about self. The confusion then leads to losses & other unpleasant experiences.

I think that just picking up the new body and its genetic makeup already starts one on the creation of a new identity. The genetic makeup, the gender, how that body feels.

I liken it to an artist or actor who creates a piece of art or performance. Each individual work is different and stands alone. In each work stylistic elements may occur which cause an observer "to see the artist underneath". Some artists are "one trick ponies". Some have mastered a wide range of expression. All have techniques which they favor or with which they feel most comfortable.

I think that loss of identity is maybe the scariest thing for some people about death.

Very much so. It is "who" they are. Many continue to grasp at an identity long after it has finished being useful. This ties into "valence splitting", "composite case", and other aspects of what is essentially sorting out of "automaticities" in the creation & maintenance of "identity". Certainly from the perspective in which we find ourselves at present it is very fundamental stuff.

In a sense "static" (luminous mind, sunyata, etc.) may well be what's left after you've cleaned off all the "identity" gunk.

One of my all time favorite lines from the Dhammapada:

We are what we think
Having become what we thought. - G.Siddhartha, trans. P.Lal



Mark A. Baker

 

[Dulloldfart]

But I'm really really different from this other person. This has led me to see that death isn't just about losing bodies and loved ones and even, sometimes- hey, man,where's my stuff? It's about losing one's identity.

Michael Newton's research covers this area well. Some details and relevant links in this thread http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11252.

He found that a human being is a composite of an immortal soul part, and a mortal human part, the mortal human part having its own personality and desires and ability to think. Lives get interesting where these two main players have contrasting characters.

Paul

 

[angel]

Good thread Fluffy

I have always combined the theories of the different religions to make the commonalities tell the story. It has always come instinctively to me that we keep comming back around until we pass and can go to the next level, which would be another universe or plane of existense. This is all aside from Scientology. Look around and you can spot people that are at different stages of moral evolution. Sworn Christians that break the 10 commandments and tell lies constantly that think they will go to heaven just because they attend church every Sunday are just not evolved enough to get it. I also think that the ones who found themselves in Scientology and stayed are at a similar stage per se in the evolution of the spirit. They found something that was the closest to Hinduism & Kabalah in the west. I think this is a holding tank on a paradise that we are destroying, again Scientology aside.

Jen

 

[uniquemand]

Good OP, Fluff. I'm not a "believer", but it would make sense to me that if you had "past lives", you would no longer be the same personality, and likely have almost nothing in common with "who you were", other than access to their memories and triggers from those experiences.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Peregrinations of an Ethics Particle...

What can I add to Claire's good thread that would be of any value to a reader...:confused2: Perhaps the same question could be posed in respect to a lifetime - what can I contribute or leave behind this lifetime that might possibly be of some use to future generations, lifeforms, spirits... whatever.

Experience is about all that comes to mind and let me just ramble and reflect a bit now - as the proverbial "threescore and ten" is upon me and to quote my wonderful first father-in-law's comment, made in his late 80's - "I've got a whole lot more to look back on than to look forward to!"

Maybe I should also note that I continue to enjoy perfect health, have plenty of everything including energy and all my children are grown, healthy and self supporting.

But it is patently obvious to me that this current identity is approximately 7/8ths expended and before too many more years the body is going to start to fail for real and "I" will be no more.

Fifteen or twenty years ago, this thought of "end of cycle" appeared from time to time and while it never persisted, some anxiety was present and dwelling on the eventuality was somewhat uncomfortable.

Lately I've noticed that I have become curious regarding what, if anything, comes next - and that the curiosity has to a greater or lesser degree, supplanted previous anxieties.

One of the anomalies of existence that interests me is the things that I have found, and continue to find, that I can do and accomplish - despite having no training or experience with them this lifetime.

Carpentry, cabinet making and all sorts of mechanical repairs seem to have been inherent in my original makeup this lifetime. For this, I have no explanation, especially not the carpentry and cabinet making. I note now, thinking about this, that the ability manifested strongly after the passing of a favorite uncle who was a carpenter and built houses including the cabinetry as a way to make enough money to enjoy life.

Other things, like sailing a sailboat and shooting a bow and arrow, I have found to be skills inherent in most all people - the difference being the degree of interest shown by the individual...that varies widely, but the inner "knowingness" is almost always there.

When a boy and enamored with hunting, fishing and the natural world in general; I yet disliked killing and grieved at habital destruction and depletion of the species which decline was already apparent if one observed with any care at all.

Some of my old friends and schoolmates continue to hunt even today and I suppose among them are some who would not particularly hesitate to shoot the last Buffalo, Elk or catch the last wild salmon...and then maybe not bother to even eat it.

What is the defining or essential difference between us as individuals that make some choose death and some life (to vastly over simplify the issue)?

I'm curious about this and many other issues as well...at one time I thought that Scientology held some of the answers I was looking for.

While I cannot say that I found those answers in Scientology; I can say with certainty, the search was neither in vain nor all wasted time.

Your opinions are as valid and useful as mine, if not more so. I hope some here offer some of their thoughts, experience and opinions along the way.

Love,

Mike

 

[NeXTep]

I have always combined the theories of the different religions to make the commonalities tell the story. It has always come instinctively to me that we keep comming back around until we pass and can go to the next level, which would be another universe or plane of existense. This is all aside from Scientology. Look around and you can spot people that are at different stages of moral evolution. Sworn Christians that break the 10 commandments and tell lies constantly that think they will go to heaven just because they attend church every Sunday are just not evolved enough to get it. I also think that the ones who found themselves in Scientology and stayed are at a similar stage per se in the evolution of the spirit. They found something that was the closest to Hinduism & Kabalah in the west. I think this is a holding tank on a paradise that we are destroying, again Scientology aside.

Jen

Jen, agree with you on that. In my view identiy is irrelevant and only serves to be able to be a player in the game. The level of spiritual evolution at the time of death is the only thing that we do take across from one life to the next.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Great thread, Fluffy!

I'm glad we get to talk about this. I'm all for spiritual evolution, myself...

Have you ever had a dream where you knew it was you in the dream, but you looked totally different, had a different body or form? But you knew yourself. I think past/future lives are a bit like that. Some things about your personality or consciousness don't change, and some do. The awareness of awareness unit is still there (here?) everywhere and still functioning.

Has anybody else here had a near death experience, having bodily "died" and been brought back, but with the conscious awareness that "you" were just going somewhere else and experiencing something different at the moment of death, and beyond, with total recall? I think maybe RogerB has, from something he said.

It sure made me rock solid in understanding that I am a spiritual being, and also removed all fear of death itself, although the dying process can be a bit of an ordeal depending on the circumstances and one's ability to control, "rise above" and assert one's dominion over one's mest body (which of course, as Thetans we can always be at cause over to a very large extent, once we learn how).

For Ethics Particle, I can tell you that my experience of dying was just like stepping out of an old pair of shoes (think loafers that you can step right out of) and walking barefoot on comfortable ground. Just as easy as that. The body knows how to die, if we don't clench up and fight the process.

I think for us all, it's good to do some mental/spiritual/ emotional work on what you wish to take forward with you, and what you want to leave behind, as not serving you any more. Obviously I'm speaking of attitudes, cognitions, awarenesses, life lessons learned, etc. not mestie stuff. :ghost: It's always good to be conscious, aware, and present in each ongoing moment. This makes the experience much easier than our cultural indoctrination would have you think about it (that it's just the worst thing ever).

Much Love, Sweet

By the way Fluffy, your dear Grandma looks just darling in those army boots! Hope I'm not on ignore! Some rebellious part of my personality likes to live dangerously!

Love you, guys!

 

[FinallyMe]

Wow! The statement about "loss of identity" REALLY hit home with me! That is totally true for me and I never put my finger on it!

I have been ruminating on the scenario described in the Celestine Prophesies - I think it is the 10th Insight, where Redfield's character goes apparently in-between lives. I really like the idea that, in-between, we decide upon one or more issues, traits, problems or whatever, that we need to work out in our next lifetime, and that the circumstances that will produce those issues, traits, problems are set up by your choice of parents, siblings, location, race, etc. It supports my idea that life is a journey, and that people are in my life for a reason. All the people and events contribute in many forms to resolving my targets.

I don't know that I buy the description as set forth, but it certainly forms the basis for my beliefs and additional searching.

 

[ladybeetle]

Jen, agree with you on that. In my view identiy is irrelevant and only serves to be able to be a player in the game. The level of spiritual evolution at the time of death is the only thing that we do take across from one life to the next.

I think it almost same way.

I was never quite sure, were my past lives real or imagined? I think they were real ( I don't mind, what we do on OTVIII )

For one past live -- not the mine -- I have a prove. For me it is hard to know of it, because it made our family life very difficult -- but interesting

I got told the pastlife childhood ofthis person knew her for a lot of years and could follow the present life and compare.

I know absolutely that they are the same individumm in following bodies. The person herself gave me the proof.

I think this is a good answer (for me )

Michael Newton's research covers this area well. Some details and relevant links in this thread http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11252.

He found that a human being is a composite of an immortal soul part, and a mortal human part, the mortal human part having its own personality and desires and ability to think. Lives get interesting where these two main players have contrasting characters.

Paul

To narrow the whole:

This person is our daughter. Really, I was not sure, but I knew her in her past life.
When she joined us -- far away from India -- she was just sitting on the groud, staring at me. After a while she used some words only known by her and me. I overheard them

Some days later she started to collect objects I had from her past life. She was a little bit overdoing it:
I had a big round wicker basket as a memory to her. This is mine, she signalized took herself into it for sleeping, didn't want to leave. It was her bed for some days (There were much more and more frappant proves, but they are too personal to write them down here).

More ineresting:
When she died, she was seriously ill and couldn't see much. So it was in current life and she was almost going blind. Partially she got the same medicines than last time ans she was almost moribund. But finally she survived.

Often she had similar difficulties in her life, grewing up, but there were important differences. It was clearly observable, that she tried all the time to go straight on, not in circle repeting actions of past life. She didn't alwas succed but somehow finally I think she arrived at least some of her goals.
Today she is the same individual with amazingly very similar behaviour, but also quite an other person.

In first 4 years, many people even could see a similarity to the last body. But we never told about it to anybody. In the beginning she often told some episodes from her past life. Some of them were already known to me, but not everything and I was astonished to hear from others, that these events were true

Fortunately after this first 4 years she forgot her past life. Only then had she the full chance to go ahead without selfrestrictions!

I always found it a pity to forget past lives. But now I think it is vital part of life and death. Not forgetting past life is fixing us to it!
It is then awfully difficult to change something. It es even more difficult, when the family knows about this past life. That's why we alwas hided our knowledge.
Only in forgetting the old is the chance to turn toward the new.

So, I would like to change a part of that what Michael Newton said, so that I can adopt it:

a human being is a composite of an immortal soul part, and a mortal human part. The mortal human part has its own (personality) physical identity and desires and ability to think and is adopting those of the immortal eternal soul part, which is not changing in character. Lives get interesting where these two main players have contrasting characters.

Interesting:

The characteristics of the physical identity of our daughter seemes to be almost the same than those of her as immortal soul. As if she had searched for a compatible body!

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I know exactly what you guys mean, or I think I do. Great observations and speculations.

I do know what you mean, SweetnessandLight. I have had dreams like that. Interesting experience, Ladybeetle. Every single other post, also awesome. Point taken re reincarnation vs transmigration of souls.

I sometimes get this thing where I sort of look down at my arm or whatnot and think "how did I do this? Why do I have an identity? This can't be the right thing." It doesn't feel bad. It doesn't feel good. It's just momentary amazement at this state of affairs, as if I've been sleepwalking and awoke to say, "it's not normal for me to be in the middle of I5 in my nightshirt. I'm sure it's really not." Had I never had this experience, I'd have, hitherto, guessed that the sticking point would be "how did I get into a body?" but it really isn't. The body isn't so much the problem as the identity is.

So it's not just "Dropping the body", is it!

I felt in touch with both parents after they died. I got specific info from my dad which I've written about on ESMB a couple years ago, I think. Got some impressions from my Mom and it was a very different feeling that what I sensed from Dad. I also felt like Dad hung around longer and I'd figured he would. I did not want either of them to do so for too long because I did not want them to be stuck at all.

A friend of mine who'd done a lot of study in metaphysics told me that when people die they tend to either "key out" (the friend was also familiar with Scn ideas and terms) or "Key in". What I'd like is to just be me. I'd like to feel the way I did when I'd exteriorized with full perceptics and I'd like to not worry about going toward the light or not doing so or anything like that.

When my parents died a few years back, I ended up with a couple phenomena that came out of that. One was a measure of certainty about what happens after we die. The other was, for some reason, a feeling of terror about dying. Absolutely ridiculous way for someone who believes as I do to feel. I don't know why and it would be great if I could stop feeling that way. These two things don't go together at all!

 

[ladybeetle]

I sometimes get this thing where I sort of look down at my arm or whatnot and think "how did I do this? Why do I have an identity? This can't be the right thing." It doesn't feel bad. It doesn't feel good. It's just momentary amazement at this state of affairs, as if I've been sleepwalking and awoke to say, "it's not normal for me to be in the middle of I5 in my nightshirt. I'm sure it's really not." Had I never had this experience, I'd have, hitherto, guessed that the sticking point would be "how did I get into a body?" but it really isn't. The body isn't so much the problem as the identity is.

Maybe it is simply giong this way, because you are YOU?

So it's not just "Dropping the body", is it!

I felt in touch with both parents after they died. I got specific info from my dad which I've written about on ESMB a couple years ago, I think. Got some impressions from my Mom and it was a very different feeling that what I sensed from Dad. I also felt like Dad hung around longer and I'd figured he would. I did not want either of them to do so for too long because I did not want them to be stuck at all.

Short time before my dad died, I had an interesting conversation with him:
suddenly he was discussing with somebody. He stared to the door ( I didn't feel much mostly maybe a slight air draught. "No, I don't want to come, I'm not yet ready.... No, don't discuss with me I don't want to continue, not yet." I asked him, who was there and what this person wanted from him and he told me, that this was the advising group. "But I am not yet ready" ,he said "you know, last time. I didn't want to have this body and they wanted me to pick it up. They pretended this to be the right one for me. So they forced me. But I didn't like this father, I wanted to have an other! Suddenly I was in this body and I had to start life." (We never talked about past lives and rebirth, so I listend now very clairaudient ) I proposed him to explain to "them", why he wanted to look around first, I am sure, "they" will understand this. You know dad, maybe you were hesitating a little bit too long last time and they got impatient. But when you can tell them the truth, I'm sure "they" will undrstand you." "so I will do", he said, was happy again and a few days later he went. Several family members told me, they cuold feel him around for 6 more months until he escaped.

What I'd like is to just be me. I'd like to feel the way I did when I'd exteriorized with full perceptics and I'd like to not worry about going toward the light or not doing so or anything like that.

Surely you will! In my auditing, I had one single event, where I was waiting for my next body to be ready. Well I've already chosen it, but it was not born and I decided to fool about a while. It seemes I had full perceptics but very soon after entering the body the memory of it was gone

I'd like to not worry about going toward the light or not doing so or anything like that.

It seems, there is nothing to worry about. All three, my dad, my mom and my sister told me before their leavings that they were thrilled. (they "exercised" the departure for several days. It seemed to me, that other persons around can disrupt process, talking to the leaving person ). They told me, it was a pleasurable feeling and the committee was very very nice.

When my parents died a few years back, I ended up with a couple phenomena that came out of that. One was a measure of certainty about what happens after we die. The other was, for some reason, a feeling of terror about dying. Absolutely ridiculous way for someone who believes as I do to feel. I don't know why and it would be great if I could stop feeling that way. These two things don't go together at all!

Maybe you felt that they had difficulties? When the person (being) is going with open cycles, it is very hard to do so. You want to finish first, but you feel that you don't have more time! That's awful
So it is a benefit to do so! This can be such a tiny thing like "I forgot to say good by to..." up to "Oh I should pay my bills..."
Try to find out, what is open and close it. You can always help to everybody, helping to do so

 

[Dulloldfart]

When my parents died a few years back, I ended up with a couple phenomena that came out of that. One was a measure of certainty about what happens after we die. The other was, for some reason, a feeling of terror about dying. Absolutely ridiculous way for someone who believes as I do to feel. I don't know why and it would be great if I could stop feeling that way. These two things don't go together at all!

So do a free Rub & Yawn session on it and take any charge off that is available and see what gets sorted out.

Paul

 

[NeXTep]

I think it almost same way.

I was never quite sure, were my past lives real or imagined? I think they were real ( I don't mind, what we do on OTVIII )

For one past live -- not the mine -- I have a prove. For me it is hard to know of it, because it made our family life very difficult -- but interesting

I got told the pastlife childhood ofthis person knew her for a lot of years and could follow the present life and compare.

I know absolutely that they are the same individumm in following bodies. The person herself gave me the proof.

I think this is a good answer (for me )



To narrow the whole:

This person is our daughter. Really, I was not sure, but I knew her in her past life.
When she joined us -- far away from India -- she was just sitting on the groud, staring at me. After a while she used some words only known by her and me. I overheard them

Some days later she started to collect objects I had from her past life. She was a little bit overdoing it:
I had a big round wicker basket as a memory to her. This is mine, she signalized took herself into it for sleeping, didn't want to leave. It was her bed for some days (There were much more and more frappant proves, but they are too personal to write them down here).

More ineresting:
When she died, she was seriously ill and couldn't see much. So it was in current life and she was almost going blind. Partially she got the same medicines than last time ans she was almost moribund. But finally she survived.

Often she had similar difficulties in her life, grewing up, but there were important differences. It was clearly observable, that she tried all the time to go straight on, not in circle repeting actions of past life. She didn't alwas succed but somehow finally I think she arrived at least some of her goals.
Today she is the same individual with amazingly very similar behaviour, but also quite an other person.

In first 4 years, many people even could see a similarity to the last body. But we never told about it to anybody. In the beginning she often told some episodes from her past life. Some of them were already known to me, but not everything and I was astonished to hear from others, that these events were true

Fortunately after this first 4 years she forgot her past life. Only then had she the full chance to go ahead without selfrestrictions!

I always found it a pity to forget past lives. But now I think it is vital part of life and death. Not forgetting past life is fixing us to it!
It is then awfully difficult to change something. It es even more difficult, when the family knows about this past life. That's why we alwas hided our knowledge.
Only in forgetting the old is the chance to turn toward the new.

So, I would like to change a part of that what Michael Newton said, so that I can adopt it:

a human being is a composite of an immortal soul part, and a mortal human part. The mortal human part has its own (personality) physical identity and desires and ability to think and is adopting those of the immortal eternal soul part, which is not changing in character. Lives get interesting where these two main players have contrasting characters.

Interesting:

The characteristics of the physical identity of our daughter seemes to be almost the same than those of her as immortal soul. As if she had searched for a compatible body!

That's an enlighting experience ladybeetle. Really amazing to be able to recognize someone else's reincarnation. Makes a lot of sense to see the way she acted in the new lifetime compared to the previous one. In any case this is not something you'll ever tell her. She may find it out sometime by herself. But in any case I can imagine that for you as parents it was quite a challenge to deal with it, once it became clear to you.

Great post.

 

[FinallyMe]

<snip>

The other was, for some reason, a feeling of terror about dying. Absolutely ridiculous way for someone who believes as I do to feel. I don't know why and it would be great if I could stop feeling that way. These two things don't go together at all!

Fluffy, could it be that your fright/terror comes from the fact that you know you're not ready to go yet, so are afraid that you will die before xxxxxxxx? I recently had a cancer scare, and I was completely socked in depressed and frightened, despite my own certainty that this life isn't the end, and felt SO much better when I realized that I truly am not finished with this life yet, and that the fear came from the possibility of dying before I finished my journey.

Experiences I've had when my grandfather, grandmother and father died have shown me that people go when they are "done" - they have completed whatever journey they were on for this lifetime, and they are ready to go.

 

[ladybeetle]

That's an enlighting experience ladybeetle. Really amazing to be able to recognize someone else's reincarnation. Makes a lot of sense to see the way she acted in the new lifetime compared to the previous one. In any case this is not something you'll ever tell her. She may find it out sometime by herself. But in any case I can imagine that for you as parents it was quite a challenge to deal with it, once it became clear to you.

Great post.

Of course!

I ceep my mouth shut. But she already found out some parts of her previous life when she detected some old fotos (We kept them in a closed drawer ).

She asked me, why I don't tell her the whole story, and accepted my answer.

For me it was a joyful experience, that she could reach some of her goals she had fixed once for her next life.

Other goals are still far away: she is running her life very similar

I'm wondering how it will be in my future life?
I think something like that. Will I be able to change what I want?
Even when my parents will not be able to help me, not knowing my wished way?

But this is still far away --- I think