Director Paul Haggis Speaks Out About Scientology in First Television Interview!

Veda

Sponsor
You're welcome, as for the "the rest," here it is:

[video=youtube_share;jYZRDf-D8xo]http://youtu.be/jYZRDf-D8xo[/video]

This is very good. Thanks for posting. :)

Lawrence Wright notes that "Because it's protected as a religion... it's able to get away with a lot of things."

That's key.

Hopefully, more people will begin referring to Scientology as "the so called Church," rather than "the Church," etc.

Reminding others that Scientology uses the cloak of religion and that its founder used the phrase "religion angle," and also wrote, in 1962, in an issue titled "Religion":

"Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors."
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

In accordance with Marty and Mike's plan to "move" their followers "up a little higher" to the level of sophisticated "Intel-PR officers," they are expected to read almost everything relevant to the ongoing intra-Scientology war, and especially anything from those who might still be influenced by M&M's desperate PR damage-control efforts.

Marty and Mike still hasn't abandoned their plans to ensure that "Scientology will live forever," but they're going up against impossible odds, and having to make so many concessions - just to remain credible - that calling themselves Scientologist is becoming less and less believable.

PR damage control? What are you on Veda?
 

Div6

Crusader
Haggis described it as "blindness".

Per the DEFINITION of RESPONSIBLITY:
RESPONSIBILITY: THE NON-RECOGNITION AND DENIAL OF THE RIGHT OF INTERVENTION BETWEEN ONESELF AND ANY BEING, IDEA, MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE, TIME OR FORM, AND THE ASSUMPTION OF FULL RIGHT OF DETERMINATION OVER IT.

it is self inflicted blindness, and a "requirement" to be a member of the "group".
I always thought circumcision was a weird "rite of passage" for a religious group, particularly in an age of no anesthetics and dull knives. Apparently, to be a "Scientologist" you must be self-blinding as a being.

Which one is "worse"?
 
This 2013 is the year of reckoning to David Miscavige for all the human rights abuses, Narconon crimes and else where, hidden agenda, lies, destruction of families, death of Alexander and other young adults, forced abortions, child endangerment and child abuse, slavery, lies about Ideal Morgue as expansion, enprisionment of management at the Hole in Hemet, California, robbery of people with good intention, disappearance of Shelly Miscavige, IRS infringement of non-profit codes, enurement and the list goes on and on... :happydance: :happydance:

:cheers2:

maybe
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

I intentionally watched the show (which I thought was done well) with a person not very familiar with Scientology.

Then knew I had been in Scientology for years.

He asked me if I ever saw these things.

I said that I was once locked in a room with two other people because my boss (senior) at the Church wrote something accusing me and the others purposely suppressing the stats.

I said the order to do this came from the Sea Org.

He asked me why didn't I or the family on the show report it to the police.

I said we felt our system of justice was superior to theirs and dealing with them would be worse.

I also told the guy that the celebrities in Scientology don't see all the ugly stuff.

He shook his head and said it doesn't make sense and is all hard to believe.

The Anabaptist Jacques

all those years and that's the wcrst you got taj?

there are plenty of abuses in CoS and most of them are subtle, you can't nail 'em for things which are not uncommon everywhere

we had a ball at fcdc, the hours were long and the pay was short but the time i was there i saw no actual crimes
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

we had a ball at fcdc, the hours were long and the pay was short but the time i was there i saw no actual crimes

You were part of an organization that was selling a non-existent "Bridge" that people dedicated their lives working to cross. The only thing that was Cleared were bank accounts, 401k's, college education funds, etc. Fellow staff worked for less than 50 cents/hour because they were led to believe that the only hope for mankind was the CoS, which happens to be utter and complete bullshit. But without those fraudulent representations made to potential recruits they wouldn't have otherwise agreed to work for years under the conditions they did. Without the fraudulent misrepresentations, people wouldn't have disconnected from their mothers, fathers, children, wives, husbands, lifelong friends. Scientology organizations were struggling to keep toilet paper in the bathrooms at the same time Hubbard was stuffing his pockets with millions of dollars cash.

You might not have SEEN any actual crimes. But they were all around you.
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

all those years and that's the wcrst you got taj?

there are plenty of abuses in CoS and most of them are subtle, you can't nail 'em for things which are not uncommon everywhere

we had a ball at fcdc, the hours were long and the pay was short but the time i was there i saw no actual crimes

That was the worst I got, not the worst I saw.

Besides, it was in it's infancy.

The first time I saw someone get slapped around was in 1975 after Dave Richards was already gone.

But even in his last days it was crazy with insane product officering.

It had stopped being about truth and justice.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Moosejewels

Patron Meritorious
Re : Rock Center 01/17/13

Great segment on Scioland.

Paul Haggis has that "fuck you, I'm not afraid of you anymore" look about him.

He's to be admired.

:thumbsup:
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

You were part of an organization that was selling a non-existent "Bridge" that people dedicated their lives working to cross. The only thing that was Cleared were bank accounts, 401k's, college education funds, etc. Fellow staff worked for less than 50 cents/hour because they were led to believe that the only hope for mankind was the CoS, which happens to be utter and complete bullshit. But without those fraudulent representations made to potential recruits they wouldn't have otherwise agreed to work for years under the conditions they did. Without the fraudulent misrepresentations, people wouldn't have disconnected from their mothers, fathers, children, wives, husbands, lifelong friends. Scientology organizations were struggling to keep toilet paper in the bathrooms at the same time Hubbard was stuffing his pockets with millions of dollars cash.

You might not have SEEN any actual crimes. But they were all around you.

actually, at fcdc in the early seventies we were selling and delivering auditing and auditor training. a handful of pc's asked for their money back and received it after completing a reasonable routing form. no one whoever bought training asked for a refund. and there was always toilet paper. in fact, my wife and i had a pleasant modern two room apartment on staff pay. the academy filled up so a second room was added, it filled and a third was opened. the hgc was also overflowing. i walked in to the d of p's office one saturday morning and found 50 paid 12&1/2 hour intensives scheduled for the weekend. nor was there much in the way of disconnection

then they dropped a ration of crap on my plate that i wasn't going to eat and i walked away and the stats crashed

and i later found out about a couple things that were less than kosher but not much there at that time.

auditing and auditor training were good things then. i left CoS in much better condition than i entered and the skills i learned have been very useful

perhaps something like that could occur again but not until CoS has a day of reckoning
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

That was the worst I got, not the worst I saw.

Besides, it was in it's infancy.

The first time I saw someone get slapped around was in 1975 after Dave Richards was already gone.

But even in his last days it was crazy with insane product officering.

It had stopped being about truth and justice.

The Anabaptist Jacques

yeah, unfortunately IT was never about truth and justice. but many of us were.
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

actually, at fcdc in the early seventies we were selling and delivering auditing and auditor training. a handful of pc's asked for their money back and received it after completing a reasonable routing form. no one whoever bought training asked for a refund. and there was always toilet paper. in fact, my wife and i had a pleasant modern two room apartment on staff pay. the academy filled up so a second room was added, it filled and a third was opened. the hgc was also overflowing. i walked in to the d of p's office one saturday morning and found 50 paid 12&1/2 hour intensives scheduled for the weekend. nor was there much in the way of disconnection

then they dropped a ration of crap on my plate that i wasn't going to eat and i walked away and the stats crashed

and i later found out about a couple things that were less than kosher but not much there at that time.

auditing and auditor training were good things then. i left CoS in much better condition than i entered and the skills i learned have been very useful

perhaps something like that could occur again but not until CoS has a day of reckoning
In the EARLY 1970s there were fantastic changes, of a highly positive nature FROM AUDITING, I was certainly, one of them.

I went from a schlub to "in action and control" SOLELY due to auditing in a three year period. The auditing I got, the auditing I gave ..... changed my life magnitudes for the better.

As I've said many times, the Clearing Course and the Briefing Course are two parts of my life that I would NEVER not do.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

actually, at fcdc in the early seventies we were selling and delivering auditing and auditor training. a handful of pc's asked for their money back and received it after completing a reasonable routing form.

Exactly! You were selling high end Jaguar's and BMW's and delivering low-end Chevy's. You were selling "states of awareness" that you could not deliver. Even per Hubbard himself this is criminal; he called it "Criminal Exchange". I guess even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
:whistling:

Or am I misunderstanding you and you're suggesting that FCDC had the ability to deliver the promised abilities gained as described on Hubbard's Grade Chart from that era? (which all the regges used to sell auditing and training?)

By the way, I spent a couple weeks at FCDC back around 1985, along with Steve Goodwin. We were the "advance men" in charge of your LRH Birthday Event. So I got a chance to observe firsthand some of the "products" of your organization. This was one of the things that led me to begin having doubts about the "Tech". At least one of the people had been a PC throughout all of the 60's and 70's. He case condition was absolutely horrible and had been throughout that period. He had done tons to help the CoS and Hubbard and so I spoke to him for hours and did all I could in an effort to help the man, which unfortunately was very little. He detailed for me all the auditing he received, the corrections, etc., and I couldn't understand why he was in such horrible condition.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

-snip-

I went from a schlub to "in action and control" SOLELY due to auditing in a three year period. The auditing I got, the auditing I gave ..... changed my life magnitudes for the better.

-snip-

Other people did much the same thing without Scientology. You did it with Scientology which was, then, a deceptive and malevolent cult. All you folks who want to "rehab" your 40 year old pleasure moments while naive neophytes in Scientology, :melodramatic:please:ohmy: don't do it on this thread.

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I can be addressed
But in our temples best
Address me and you address
Lord Buddha.
Address Lord Buddha
And you then address
Metteyya.


L. Ron Hubbard, from 'Hymn of Asia'

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Thanks. :)
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

I just watched the Rock Center show. I found it to be one of the most powerful shows of its type I have ever seen - and I think I have seen them all. I think the press has finally figured out how to expose Scientology. They are balanced - always giving the church's rebuttal. These rebuttals reveal the lying heartless nature of the organization. Further, the press has learned how to ask questions of ex's that the common viewer are curious about: Why did you join; Why did you stay; What was it like to leave; How were you punished; What is disconnection like; How can this happen in America?

What great promo for Wright's book this was! I thought Wright was very calm and balanced. But left us with a very salient point: The IRS has extended church protection to this organization; there are hundred of tearful stories of abuse; this church is answerable for these abuses to the citizens who have (via IRS) extended them church privilege.

I thought the family at the end was great. The camera time given to the un-aborted girl crying about the child abuse she witnessed and the way the camera rested on the mom describing her disconnection from her sisters communicated the unimaginable reality of Scientology's heartlessness policies.

We must continue this long project of garnering the general public's willingness and desire to remove church privilege from this horrible creation of a truly evil fiend (mankind's greatest friend).

Recently, the city of New Haven, Connecticut chose to let the local cos off the hook in a foreclosure case. I can only speculate that the city officials estimated that the smart political move was not to "go after" a church. If we keep up the work of exposing the horrors of this organization (and the scripture which spawned it), the politics will shift such that not going after the church will be the wrong move.

A moral imperative, like the one we all live by being here, like gun control after Sandy Hook, must be grasped by the voting majority so that politicians and bureaucrats won't dare to let Scientology stand.

This is OK.

Great post WTT! And I watched Paul Haggis. Great stuff.

So, the US Constitution states "rights of religion" or some such as I recall when I had to learn the answers to 200 US history questions in order to become an American Citizen.

Well we don't have a Constitution in the UK so why can't the government get rid of COS. I suppose they have bigger fish to fry at the mo..... don't see COS as a threat maybe....?
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

On NBC's website - the comments are open, just in case anyone interested! :coolwink::)

Here's the link:
http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news...-of-scientology-was-a-treasonous-act#comments

Something is strange here. There is not a single pro-scientology comment there, not one. Either the cult has changed their strategy or maybe the person whose job it is to post the pro-scientology comments is blown.
:unsure:

Louanne, are you here? :coolwink:
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

Exactly! You were selling high end Jaguar's and BMW's and delivering low-end Chevy's. You were selling "states of awareness" that you could not deliver. Even per Hubbard himself this is criminal; he called it "Criminal Exchange". I guess even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
:whistling:

Or am I misunderstanding you and you're suggesting that FCDC had the ability to deliver the promised abilities gained as described on Hubbard's Grade Chart from that era? (which all the regges used to sell auditing and training?)

By the way, I spent a couple weeks at FCDC back around 1985, along with Steve Goodwin. We were the "advance men" in charge of your LRH Birthday Event. So I got a chance to observe firsthand some of the "products" of your organization. This was one of the things that led me to begin having doubts about the "Tech". At least one of the people had been a PC throughout all of the 60's and 70's. He case condition was absolutely horrible and had been throughout that period. He had done tons to help the CoS and Hubbard and so I spoke to him for hours and did all I could in an effort to help the man, which unfortunately was very little. He detailed for me all the auditing he received, the corrections, etc., and I couldn't understand why he was in such horrible condition.

what we sold and delivered was auditing and auditor training.

a lot of koolaid got poured out too. i never drank it, most staff did. our public, both in the academy and the hgc never gave the impression to me of being dazzled by the hyperbole.

and...

our "OT's" actually did display not only exceptionally keen present time awareness but occaisional bits of something above and beyond.

and fcdc fell apart after i left in '74
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

Something is strange here. There is not a single pro-scientology comment there, not one. Either the cult has changed their strategy or maybe the person whose job it is to post the pro-scientology comments is blown.
:unsure:

Louanne, are you here? :coolwink:

I noticed that this morning. Hasn't changed yet?
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I finally had the chance to watch this awesome show, and after much sobbing, am able to Say thank you to Larry, Paul and the James family and all who made this show possible.:thumbsup: And a special thank you Katrina for saying to your parents you wanted to leave.

"Purposely blind"! Such an apt description of active scientologists. Although selectively purposely blind is also applicable in some cases, I suppose.

Here is the link which was unavailable yesterday to the show on NBC.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rock-center/50502451#50502451

These are "not people you want to mess with" is rapidly becoming 'these are people who won't survive unless they stop their lying'.

The war is not over. There is much more to be done by each of us and finally the cult will be held accountable.
 
Re: Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis 1/17/2013

Exactly! You were selling high end Jaguar's and BMW's and delivering low-end Chevy's. You were selling "states of awareness" that you could not deliver. Even per Hubbard himself this is criminal; he called it "Criminal Exchange". I guess even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
:whistling:

Or am I misunderstanding you and you're suggesting that FCDC had the ability to deliver the promised abilities gained as described on Hubbard's Grade Chart from that era? (which all the regges used to sell auditing and training?)

By the way, I spent a couple weeks at FCDC back around 1985, along with Steve Goodwin. We were the "advance men" in charge of your LRH Birthday Event. So I got a chance to observe firsthand some of the "products" of your organization. This was one of the things that led me to begin having doubts about the "Tech". At least one of the people had been a PC throughout all of the 60's and 70's. He case condition was absolutely horrible and had been throughout that period. He had done tons to help the CoS and Hubbard and so I spoke to him for hours and did all I could in an effort to help the man, which unfortunately was very little. He detailed for me all the auditing he received, the corrections, etc., and I couldn't understand why he was in such horrible condition.

yeah...

it is a drag hearing about that guy. in CoS they keep looking at auditing as end all be all panacea. poor bastard probably needed a couple days of MEST labor in the sunshine, a glass of fine wine and a good pice of ass but yes you and all these other enraged posters are right. CoS solutions are always aligned to CGI

it's this thing with the cart and the horse, ya gotta get that horse out in front of the cart
 
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