ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

[Zinjifar]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this. I was told by someone who used to work for OSA that, "It's OSA's JOB. It's what they do. It's all they do."

I'm not normally this paranoid.

It's certainly not paranoid. I've been on numerous Scientology related forums (and others) over the past 15 years and OSA is always a presence; doing what they do per policy, which is 'third party'; inciting, exacerbating and fuelling strife and dissention and 'us vs. them' and 'divide and conquer.

They've always done this, whether the forum is ARS or here, and the intention is always the same.

Still, I don't see any likely OSA involvement in this particular 'spat du jour', yet at least, although, I don't doubt that as things and tempers cool down, they'll do what they can to crank things back up.

But, there's no solution, except to foil their nefarious plans by avoiding the pitfalls of rudeness, personal invective and factionalism they want.

What I haven't seen is heavy-handed moderation, although there are certainly disagreements there, and, the fact that those disagreements are even being expressed refutes the fear, I think.

So, I'm going to frustrate OSA (always fun) by maintaining my own calm, rational and brilliant level of discourse, while avoiding as much hyperbole and lashing out as possible.

Zinj

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Freezone is not correct target at this time. In fact Freezone is a good thing right now, imo..

Problems may arise when the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology implodes for real... At that time the Freezone will probably (make that certainly) establish itself as the 'kosher' Scn.

The danger for all of us is that the Freezone develops into the same totalitarian mess that CofS is today. The germs for that is in Hubbards tech right from the start.

Those members of the Freezone who wants a moderate and 'reasonable' movement will have to wrestle power from the Hubbard fundamentalists.. Who will probably be unreasonable, ruthless 'tigers'.

Who's gonna take it? - And where will it lead?

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Those are the real EPs of those levels, Cat's Squirrel. Ask anybody who has done them.

I think it would be impossible to pick out the parts you don't want and decide whether a method was valid, invalid or sometimes valid, one would have to have a thorough understanding of all the parts that make up L Ron Hubbards dangerous mishmash of other practices.

Otherwise how would you know what parts were harmless and which are harmful?

Just saying "It works for me" is not very smart, there are all kinds of harmful things that "work".

Please find out all the facts before you put yourselves in danger, or advocate this dangerous activity to others.


Here you can hear in Hubbards own words what he thought of satanism:
Philadelphia Doctorate Course, Lecture 18, "Conditions of Space-Time-Energy."



There is alot more... look for yourself before you leap into something you might not be able to get out of your mind so easily. It might not be helping you as much as you think it is, anyway.

Think about this:

Maybe a "good" auditor is a person who really cares about others? Maybe "good" auditing has more to do with human beings connecting with one another than it does with scientology tech?

I for one trust licenced and educated professionals more than unlicensed, unprofessional, uneducated minions of the huckster science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. (Not that I trust all of them, but if my loved one was sick I would take them a Doctor, not a scientologist.)

I and many other EX-scientologists here know a lot more Hubbard tech than many of the freezoners and indies around here. Many of us also took time to learn where the "workable" parts of the tech were plagiarized from.

I took a look at the freezone, I guess it is better than the official COS, and maybe has some value as a gradient step out of L. Ron Hubbards fantasy land, but my advice is don't get stuck at that step.

The freezoners are still trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Just quickly; the bit about caring and connecting I'd definitely go along with, but as for the licensed professionals - I once had a clinical psychologist who invalidated me left, right and centre and left me with a heap of bypassed charge. I'd have been better off talking to a cleaning lady if her heart was in the right place (and we were compatible personalities).

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Freezone is not correct target at this time. In fact Freezone is a good thing right now, imo..

Problems may arise when the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology implodes for real... At that time the Freezone will probably (make that certainly) establish itself as the 'kosher' Scn.

The danger for all of us is that the Freezone develops into the same totalitarian mess that CofS is today. The germs for that is in Hubbards tech right from the start.

Those members of the Freezone who wants a moderate and 'reasonable' movement will have to wrestle power from the Hubbard fundamentalists.. Who will probably be unreasonable, ruthless 'tigers'.

Who's gonna take it? - And where will it lead?

Actually, on this board they are the correct target. This board is for ex Scientologist to get closer, catharsis, or whatever one wishes to call it. It is what drew me to it. Freezoners promoting their Scientology Lite on this board undermines the sacntuary of this board. I don't believe in censoring them, but I want to let them know they are not welcomed here by me because they violate this sanctuary--a sanctuary from Scientology. Why else would they be here but to recruit or disseminate?


The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Pixie]

I believe that, just like when McMurphy wanted all the other guys to vote on being able to watch the World Series on TV and Nurse Ratched started manipulating things, this thread began to go off the rails when there was a mistake in moderation, and Roan's post was censored by Thor.

That set off powder keg of reactions: People started stamping and screaming "I want MY CIGARETTES!!". Harding was sexually insulted. And Martini ran around wringing his hands.

I think it's time for our medication.

And a couple of us may need to go up to the second floor for some electro-shock therapy.

... Anyway yes, I think this is exactly what happened, this is exactly when it all went down hill, things were much calmer before that happened this cannot be denied. I don't feel I am picking other exes apart at all, for me, and in my experience, it does appear that the only ones who seem to get my goat are one or two freezoners. No one wants to be told what to say and how to say it, it's true, and it brings back bad memories of the cult, and when one is fighting indoctrination, it's all to easy to loose the cool as well as the plot, it certainly does me, and if indeed anyone is getting 'fed up' of it, they are more than entitled to go to any other thread they choose, or start their own.

 

[acertainratio]

Just quickly; the bit about caring and connecting I'd definitely go along with, but as for the licensed professionals - I once had a clinical psychologist who invalidated me left, right and centre and left me with a heap of bypassed charge. I'd have been better off talking to a cleaning lady if her heart was in the right place (and we were compatible personalities).

I was sent to a child psychologist, but it was a waste of time because he just wanted to play trains. Mind you - he was only 8.

 

[Pixie]

I have a confession to make. I have never seen the movie or read the book "One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest." But I think I did experience in Scientology. And I am declaring war on Freezone propaganda on this board. My sword is my arguments, my shield is the inspiration I get from other exes, and my cause is for all those who good, idealistic, even altruistic people who whose spirits have been crushed and minds distorted or bruised.
Once more unto the breach!

The Anabapatist Jacques

 

[Zinjifar]

Actually, on this board they are the correct target. This board is for ex Scientologist to get closer, catharsis, or whatever one wishes to call it. It is what drew me to it. Freezoners promoting their Scientology Lite on this board undermines the sacntuary of this board. I don't believe in censoring them, but I want to let them know they are not welcomed here by me because they violate this sanctuary--a sanctuary from Scientology. Why else would they be here but to recruit or disseminate?


The Anabaptist Jacques

I think it's safe to say that the 'Freezone' itself may not be welcome here. Organized groups and factions can't be 'members', although individuals may or may not be 'members' of 'other practices'. At least in my experience. Personally, I've never been a member of Scientology, the FZ or any other 'group' since I was in the Boy Scouts many many years ago, and I don't think I've missed anything important in that lack.

But, even as a never-been-a-Scientologist, I've felt welcome on theis Board, although less welcome in some circles

Still, getting out of Scientology is a long drawn out process usually, and, Zonie or not, there are plenty of validly 'ex' Scientologists who are still 'tech lovers' of some kind or another, and even some escapees who insist on differentiating between the 'Church' and Scientology itself, delusional as that distinction may be.

I guess, when it gets right down to it, *how* you go about making 'Free Zoners' feel unwelcome will define when your own participation is seen by the powers that be to be more 'stinking up the joint' than the Hubbardian miasma.

Zinj

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Thanks Pixie, I needed that.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Pixie]

Yeah, I am starting to hate this thread...a lot. Can't we just go back to bashing Davey?

I think that's another thread byte301..

 

[acertainratio]

I think it's safe to say that the 'Freezone' itself may not be welcome here. Organized groups and factions can't be 'members', although individuals may or may not be 'members' of 'other practices'. At least in my experience. Personally, I've never been a member of Scientology, the FZ or any other 'group' since I was in the Boy Scouts many many years ago, and I don't think I've missed anything important in that lack.

But, even as a never-been-a-Scientologist, I've felt welcome on theis Board, although less welcome in some circles

Still, getting out of Scientology is a long drawn out process usually, and, Zonie or not, there are plenty of validly 'ex' Scientologists who are still 'tech lovers' of some kind or another, and even some escapees who insist on differentiating between the 'Church' and Scientology itself, delusional as that distinction may be.

I guess, when it gets right down to it, *how* you go about making 'Free Zoners' feel unwelcome will define when your own participation is seen by the powers that be to be more 'stinking up the joint' than the Hubbardian miasma.

Zinj

That's very interesting that you've never been in Cof$ or FZ.

Have you ever had any auditing?

What brought you here?

 

[Pixie]

Cat's Squirrel,

One thing I could never understand, where the people under Josph Stalin. He would take thousands of his loyal party members, and out of his own paranoia, would have them tortored and shot. Then the next group of loyal party members that replaced them, would eventually be tortured and shot. This went on for at least 15 years. And even after Stalin was dead, there were ppeople who were loyal to him.
The abuses, emotional distress, and injustice that has happened to many of the people on this board will happen to you too, if you stay loyal to Scientology, Hubbard, or the Freezone. Don't defend it. See it for what it is. Don't think you can reason away the pain Scientology causes.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I think it's safe to say that the 'Freezone' itself may not be welcome here. Organized groups and factions can't be 'members', although individuals may or may not be 'members' of 'other practices'. At least in my experience. Personally, I've never been a member of Scientology, the FZ or any other 'group' since I was in the Boy Scouts many many years ago, and I don't think I've missed anything important in that lack.

But, even as a never-been-a-Scientologist, I've felt welcome on theis Board, although less welcome in some circles

Still, getting out of Scientology is a long drawn out process usually, and, Zonie or not, there are plenty of validly 'ex' Scientologists who are still 'tech lovers' of some kind or another, and even some escapees who insist on differentiating between the 'Church' and Scientology itself, delusional as that distinction may be.

I guess, when it gets right down to it, *how* you go about making 'Free Zoners' feel unwelcome will define when your own participation is seen by the powers that be to be more 'stinking up the joint' than the Hubbardian miasma.

Zinj

I don't intend on being obnoxious or rude. I just will try not to let their Scientolgy Lite promotion go unchallenged, that is, point out that they are still doing Hubbard's work.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Pixie]

S'gettin a bit hot in here - anybody wanna beer?

No but I'll take a bit of Holy Herb if you have any, come to think of it, I haven't had that in a while.. .....

 

[Pixie]

Thanks for the warning, but I haven't seen a lot of complaints here (or indeed any) about the freezone. All the complaints seem to be about the CofS, which I left many years ago and have no intention of returning to.

Er.. isn't that the same thing Cat's Squirrel??

 

[acertainratio]

No but I'll take a bit of Holy Herb if you have any, come to think of it, I haven't had that in a while.. .....

Sorry, I aint got none, but you can have this flower.

 

[Zinjifar]

That's very interesting that you've never been in Cof$ or FZ.

Have you ever had any auditing?

What brought you here?

I've never had any auditing, but have explored and even practiced various 'Spiritual Paths' over more than 40 years.

I came here because I've been a vocal Scn critic since about '95 and that activity has brought me into contact and even association with numerous ex and even still Scientologists since then. I enjoy discussing Scientology, mostly because the 'Tech' itself is behind most of the abuse, but, also because I'm always interested in 'theories' of spirituality, and, once you can get over the inevitable frustrations inherent in 'discussion' with Scientologists, I tend to like them.

I'm also an amateur anthropologist and enjoy human group dynamics, which the various factions, groupings, cliques and circles around Scientology are rife with.

When Emma announced the board, I thought it sounded like a good idea and came over to visit, and, ended up liking both the board and the participants so much that I stayed.

That's about it.

Zinj

 

[Pixie]

Actually, on this board they are the correct target. This board is for ex Scientologist to get closer, catharsis, or whatever one wishes to call it. It is what drew me to it. Freezoners promoting their Scientology Lite on this board undermines the sacntuary of this board. I don't believe in censoring them, but I want to let them know they are not welcomed here by me because they violate this sanctuary--a sanctuary from Scientology. Why else would they be here but to recruit or disseminate?


The Anabaptist Jacques

Exactly TAJ!! Gee, you're posts this evening are wonderfully enlightening!! .. and again methinks..

 

[acertainratio]

I've never had any auditing, but have explored and even practiced various 'Spiritual Paths' over more than 40 years.

I came here because I've been a vocal Scn critic since about '95 and that activity has brought me into contact and even association with numerous ex and even still Scientologists since then. I enjoy discussing Scientology, mostly because the 'Tech' itself is behind most of the abuse, but, also because I'm always interested in 'theories' of spirituality, and, once you can get over the inevitable frustrations inherent in 'discussion' with Scientologists, I tend to like them.

I'm also an amateur anthropologist and enjoy human group dynamics, which the various factions, groupings, cliques and circles around Scientology are rife with.

When Emma announced the board, I thought it sounded like a good idea and came over to visit, and, ended up liking both the board and the participants so much that I stayed.

That's about it.

Zinj

You have my respect.

 

[Pixie]

Sorry, I aint got none, but you can have this flower.

How very very beautiful, thank you very much!


There is an old Irish saying that when someone give you a flower, it means that your highest wish is on it's way.. so.. what more can I say to that.