ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

[Mark A. Baker]

The thread that concerns me the most is the recently retired "L correction" thread. I don't want to rehash that thread AT ALL. I just want to say that I'm absolutely disgusted that this persons privacy has been violated, and by the auditor no less. I'm not sure that I want any promotion of a group who will do that kind of thing just to brag or use the PC's status to boost his business.

I agree & I thank you for removing it. I've a slightly differing take on the whys & wherefores of the original IFA post, but even there I agree it was inappropriate as written as too much personal data was disclosed.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Smitty]

Comment to Emma

Emma, thanks for expressing your concerns. This is the Ex-Scientologist Message Board.
I left the cofs in 2005 before this board existed. Finding scientology outside the cofs only takes a websearch. At that time, I still wanted scientology and even got some auditing outside the cofs. After six months however, the brainwashing I had received for the previous 28 years wore off and I found that the Independent Field had much more to offer.
Emma, please take a look at the policies of the various freezone groups on their email lists towards the postings of Independent Field information. They are absolutely opposed to freedom of speech on their lists and actively ban any Independent Field people who dare to post anything other than L. Ron Hubbard information.
I would suggest that the freezone forums on this board be terminated. The scientologists outside the cofs can take their prosletyzing somewhere else.
Smitty

 

[Pixie]

Look at it from another viewpoint, Pixiegal. A newbie or lurker arrives and thinks the tech is great, but hates the CofS and can't understand why they screw the tech up so much. They come here looking for answers and at every turn they come across critics who trash Hubbard's tech on nearly every thread!

Paul

Pixiegal?? Why Dull Old Fart I do declare you have made me blush.. Yes but they also see freezone advertise hubbards tech on every thread, so what's the difference? :confused2:

 

[acertainratio]

Acertainratio, some people have just forgotten exactly how to do that!! They cannot remember how to do that!! And it is with them that my own concerns ly. It's just not that simple, if I had viewed some of the things the freezone had written on non freezone threads the day I realized it was a con, I'd have jumped straight in, we must understand the full effects of the mind bending that was taken place within us all. Some of us are still raw, lost, and still trying to find some balance, the full affects are not talked about in detail as far as I can tell yet, but this too needs to be discussed, so presuming it's possible to 'make up your own mind' is not as easy for some as it may be for others.

I take your point about the 'rawness' and to be honest, I had not taken it into account. My experiences in Scn are 20 years ago, so I need to take on board the fact that is a lot more immediate than that for many.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

 

[Pixie]

I've yet another 100 or so messages to read on this thread, and have just sat down at my computer. But felt I should give some sort of answer here, and there will be a more detailed one later.

I'm very liberal by inclination. However I support and promote " standard tech". But am also a loose cannon. I have got into trouble with most major
terminals in the " standard tech" freezone. Really serious trouble.

However I do not " take sides". Paul of Robot auditor fame is a personal friend and we had many interesting discussions re his early marketing of his ideas.

The first person I visited on my trip to visit Freezone friends and others was Alan. [ cos he was nearest too me. ] Very enjoyable meeting. I since tried to persuade my friend who also visited that Alan would be a very good terminal for tech. And he is of course not "standard".

Its very intersting to me to have read so far several accounts of people who found the FZ helpful re leaving COS but then left it for other tech or perhaps no tech. If that was all I achieved by promoting the FZ I would feel I've done something worthwhile.

However I've seen so many examples of " miracles" of one sort or another from " standard tech". Actually I don't think its that " standard" but thats another issue.

Tech done with a pure heart for the gain of someone else is a beautiful achievement. I've met so many wonderful old timers in my travels who do just that. A common denominator was that they were all in some way not
" standard".

This still does not explain your weird and disgusting behaviour Terril, perhaps you need to have some more auditing on your aparrant and very convinient amnesia.

 

[Zinjifar]

This still does not explain your weird and disgusting behaviour Terril, perhaps you need to have some more auditing on your aparrant and very convinient amnesia.

Everybody's human Pixie Not a homo novus in the lot. Everybody has an off day.

Zinj

 

[Dulloldfart]

... as long as I get my 60% for my wonderful sexy voice DOF!

Did you make any recordings yet?

Paul

 

[Escalus]

I'm not gone for good here, juat backed off a bit. Doing lots of work over at Enturb.

I'd hate to say, though, that I'd be in favor of blocking anyone from speaking their mind or opinion. Seems to me the principle is "the more you disagree with it the more you should be sure it has the right to be expressed." This is more than Scientology would ever do for a contrary position.

I wouldn't be for telling the freezoners to hump off and quit participating here or anything, but - if anyone has noticed - as ridiculous as I think their opinions are I've never once gone into the Freezoner section here and raised hell on them. I'll talk to them in the section meant for that - criticism of the tech, etc. - but I wouldn't want to be one to say "you can't think this ir that" here.

That's for the admin 100%. If it's my opinion being asked for all I'll say is - again, people can believe any bullshit they want.

 

[Pixie]

I take your point about the 'rawness' and to be honest, I had not taken it into account. My experiences in Scn are 20 years ago, so I need to take on board the fact that is a lot more immediate than that for many.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Hey Acertainratio, no worries there, I can only but imagine what it would be like to have these feelings eventually fade, and I can understand why one would think that having been out for so long, of course one is hopefully going to get stronger and the critical thinking is going to eventually kick in so I can understand totally where you would be coming from with this. Thanks for your honest and kind reply.

 

[Pixie]

Everybody's human Pixie Not a homo novus in the lot. Everybody has an off day.

Zinj

More than just an off 'day' from what I have experienced Zinj.

 

[Pixie]

Did you make any recordings yet?

Paul

No DOF, I've been chatting to my friends on google chat and trying to keep up with this thread but I'll try to find time to give it a bash tomorrow..

 

[Dulloldfart]

Everybody's human Pixie Not a homo novus in the lot. Everybody has an off day.

Zinj

It's "homo novis" in Hubbard Latin, Zinji. In Hubbard Latin, the nominative singular noun homo takes the dative/ablative plural adjective novis. It's only in backward Earth Latin that the noun and adjective agree in number and case.

Paul

 

[Zander]

Right, so people who claim to have had benefits from the Tech, a group in which I class myself, are, apparently, "bullshitters"...spouting "drivel"..."showing themselves for what they are", and are here "to be shot down by the rest of us."

Gotcha.

I didn't say those things Cat's Squirrel. I didn't say freezoners are "bullshitters". I said:

I say don't allow freezone promotion (e.g. in tag lines) but tolerate proper discussion. The rest of us need to be vigilant in not tolerating any bullshit.

"Vigilant in not tolerating bullshit" is not the same thing as saying that freezoners are bullshitters. I have had no problems at all with any of your posts that I have seen. The kind of "bullshit" I was talking about (and sorry to keep repeating that word) was for example, in the 'L' thread with the blatantly self-promotional 'sucess story'. Another example would be the inappropriate 'Welcome to the freezone' posts.

I also said that proper discussion should be tolerated.

I didn't say anyone should be shot down, I said the ideas should be shot down, this is entirely different, as here:

Those people, coming to this board, are able to see the freezoners in an environment where their ideas are questioned and shot down by the rest of us.

Whatever happened to the idea of tolerance for other viewpoints than one's own, or openness to the possibility that others might actually know
something you don't?

Yes you are right. I will try harder.


Zander

 

[Dulloldfart]

I'll try to find time to give it a bash tomorrow..

OK, well, in between the spanking if you can do the recording too that would be great.

Paul

 

[Zander]

That is "granting of beingness". Didn't Hubbard recommend that? Must be bad.

Paul

Yes, I agree Dulloldfart

Zander

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The Anons have introduced a new factor into these subjects - they are in the majority of cases a non-vested interest observer and voice in our subjects......

Mostly.

My hope in the future long run is that there are plenty of strong practitioners that can truly help people........that there is power of choice for people.

Give that man a beer!

A new better pathway will be built - it may have some Scio Tech - but it more than likely that Scio Tech was plagerised from earlier practices.

Is this a confession concerning your own contributions to the tech, Alan?

All spiritual "tech" is based on "earlier tech". Talking about plagerism or theft is silly. For the most part what tends to differ is the way the various schools structure and describe their individual practices.

Scientology has a lot of good points about the way it is structured. The biggest weaknesses result from a common excess of dependency on "LRH". Many freezoners encourage the preservation of the "good", the elimination of the "bad", and the adoption of complementary practices which may "fill gaps".

Perhaps Terril would give us a description of each group and their intent!

Is that intended as some sort of penance?

I think most freezoners are still "in" because they've enjoyed their own gains, want to preserve the tech, and wish to help others experience the same sort of gains they experienced for themselves.

Some still have the old Hubbard ideology of "clearing the planet". What kicked off this thread was Emma unintentionally running afoul of the expectations of a couple of the "old guard" who are prominent members of the IFA and who are use to having their own way on the IFA chatsite.

IFA chat, unlike ESMB, is not an open board in the sense that ANY topic is open for posting. This can prove a bit of shock for new members. That is the policy and those of us who post there regularly abide by it.

[One of the regular hazards of internet posting is keeping track of which board you are logged on and what the rules are there.]


Mark A. Baker

 

[Roan]

:confused2:

Hey, what happened to my post?!? If some Mod. deleted it I want to why? Is the Mod. some Freezone lackey??

I'm copying all these posts I make and I WILL keep re-posting them. The title of the thread IS "..let's have it out!" fer crissakes!

 

[Dulloldfart]

Pixiegal?? Why Dull Old Fart I do declare you have made me blush.. Yes but they also see freezone advertise hubbards tech on every thread, so what's the difference? :confused2:

I rest my case, Your Honor.

Paul

 

[Pixie]

I rest my case, Your Honor.

Paul

Oh yes DOF, that's music to my little Pixie ears..

 

[Dulloldfart]

Yes, I agree Dulloldfart

Zander

Now you're getting into the spirit of it all.

Paul