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ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

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Boldgirl said:
Ok I can agree with that--BUT that doesnt mean that all of us that see the true insanity in the TECH of scientology should stop POSTING LIKE MAD! COUNTER THE INSANITY OF FREEZONE....that's my promise.

Why? because the tech hurt me, it broke me, it damaged me and it is deadly serious crap when you are messing with people's minds. So the FZ's can keep saying how the tech works....but I for one say vehemently and 1000000% that FZ's have no right and no qualifications for messing with people's minds with a technology that has hurt people from 'being broken spiritually' to DEATH...

In my estimation, FZ'es are Hubbard lovers, still under mind control, and are still scientologists.

:hattip::police:
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OK, let's stop right there.

I don't love LRH though I do respect him for what he contributed in the 50's at least and I still consider myself a scientologist because I use the Tech to better my own life and (at least should) those of others.

I don't believe I'm under mind control.

Care to say why I'm wrong?
 
If it's upsetting for people to read FZ posts, then if they go to a sub board labelled FreeZone or Independent, then they've set themselves up.

The question I might have is, should such areas of the board have some non proselytization rules.

I find it very interesting how some proselytization is considered ok and some isn't. But life's like that. If you go to some place with Christians and Atheists, each proselytizating (in this hypothetical scenario) you'd better believe that people on each team will be criticizing the proselytization of the others.

Like I said, if Ems wants to allow some proselytization and not other types, I'd support that because it is her board and her vision of how it should be.
 
Cat's Squirrel said:
OK, let's stop right there.

I don't love LRH though I do respect him for what he contributed in the 50's at least and I still consider myself a scientologist because I use the Tech to better my own life and (at least should) those of others.

I don't believe I'm under mind control.

Care to say why I'm wrong?
Click to expand...



absolutely. False data is false data. Just about everything in scientology has been stripped down by someone since the 70's to it's true source, shown how it was altered to control the mind, and exposed for it's true intended use--mind control and obedient cult member growth.

What specific data / tech do you use to better your own life?
PTS tech? Tone scale?

Let's be specific.

I am no expert, I have just read the books , the laborious research and timeless efforts of others on this MB, OCMB, and it is amazing really....
Hubbard stole bits and pieces of the occult and psychology, twisted it for maximum mind control and mind enslavement, gave it a shiny gold bow and called it 'scientology' and 'dianetics'.

Intention has everything to do with the development of this false tech. Hubbard's INTENTION in the development of the tech was not benevolent. It was evil, sinister, and cannot be trusted.

Being removed from it now, I have taken each small and large observation of my own in the various orgs, missions, churches, courses, auditing actions, and can now objectively agree with these findings.

It is the intention of that process, the intention of that course, the intention of that data you read to be 'true for you' that clears it all up for me.
 
fluffy said:
If it's upsetting for people to read FZ posts, then if they go to a sub board labelled FreeZone or Independent, then they've set themselves up.

The question I might have is, should such areas of the board have some non proselytization rules.

I find it very interesting how some proselytization is considered ok and some isn't. But life's like that. If you go to some place with Christians and Atheists, each proselytizating (in this hypothetical scenario) you'd better believe that people on each team will be criticizing the proselytization of the others.

Like I said, if Ems wants to allow some proselytization and not other types, I'd support that because it is her board and her vision of how it should be.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it doesnt seem to matter which thread I go to--there are FZ plugs in there to different extents. So I agree that if all FZ comments could be moderated 24/7 and moved to the 'FZ' thread, I wouldnt see it-and if I care to enturbulate myself I can go to that thread.

That isnt the case and it defintitely is Emma's call. In the meantime, if I see something i feel could hurt a newbie 'ex scn' , I feel I must speak out in whatever thread it happens to be in....
 
Boldgirl said:
absolutely. False data is false data. Just about everything in scientology has been stripped down by someone since the 70's to it's true source, shown how it was altered to control the mind, and exposed for it's true intended use--mind control and obedient cult member growth.

What specific data / tech do you use to better your own life?
PTS tech? Tone scale?

Let's be specific.

I am no expert, I have just read the books , the laborious research and timeless efforts of others on this MB, OCMB, and it is amazing really....
Hubbard stole bits and pieces of the occult and psychology, twisted it for maximum mind control and mind enslavement, gave it a shiny gold bow and called it 'scientology' and 'dianetics'.

Intention has everything to do with the development of this false tech. Hubbard's INTENTION in the development of the tech was not benevolent. It was evil, sinister, and cannot be trusted.

Being removed from it now, I have taken each small and large observation of my own in the various orgs, missions, churches, courses, auditing actions, and can now objectively agree with these findings. It is the intention of that process, the intention of that course, the intention of that data you read to be 'true for you' that clears it all up for me.
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Great post Boldgirl - :thumbsup:
 
Boldgirl said:
Unfortunately, it doesnt seem to matter which thread I go to--there are FZ plugs in there to different extents. So I agree that if all FZ comments could be moderated 24/7 and moved to the 'FZ' thread, I wouldnt see it-and if I care to enturbulate myself I can go to that thread.

That isnt the case and it defintitely is Emma's call. In the meantime, if I see something i feel could hurt a newbie 'ex scn' , I feel I must speak out in whatever thread it happens to be in....
Click to expand...


It could work!
 
Thanks for replying.

The PTS tech cured me of a long standing stomach disorder. Tone scale; the Church's interpretation of it is simplistic and doesn't allow for theta perceptics but similar tones have been observed by Elizabeth Kubler Ross in her observation of dying patients so I take that seriously. ARC; yes that helps a lot in life too. The Comm formula; putting your full attention on the person you're trying to get to speak to you helps a lot.

Reach and withdraw; useful data there too, I've used that in life recently.

Granting beingness; I should do that more on here, but that's a useful datum too. Inventing a problem of similar magnitude; I've got results from that one (although not all the time, maybe because I'm bad at it).

I doubt if your average CofS staffer (except for auditors and C/Ses) knows much Tech at all, certainly when I was in the org they never got the chance to sit down and study it.
 
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Boldgirl said:
Unfortunately, it doesnt seem to matter which thread I go to--there are FZ plugs in there to different extents. So I agree that if all FZ comments could be moderated 24/7 and moved to the 'FZ' thread, I wouldnt see it-and if I care to enturbulate myself I can go to that thread.

That isnt the case and it defintitely is Emma's call. In the meantime, if I see something i feel could hurt a newbie 'ex scn' , I feel I must speak out in whatever thread it happens to be in....
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you feel like this, but the answer's simple; just put me and other FZ believers on ignore. Problem solved.
 
Boldgirl said:
absolutely. False data is false data. Just about everything in scientology has been stripped down by someone since the 70's to it's true source, shown how it was altered to control the mind, and exposed for it's true intended use--mind control and obedient cult member growth.

What specific data / tech do you use to better your own life?
PTS tech? Tone scale?

Let's be specific.
Click to expand...

Myers Briggs is what we use in the corporate world for career path professional placement and individual development counseling.

http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/

Every personality has value until any one of 16 or combinations thereof turns criminal!
 
A Modest Proposal

The main concern seems to be over those new to the Board, who want to reach out for companionship in their turmoil but are afraid to do so because of fear and distrust of their own sensibilities.

I suggest a "grounding" mechanism, a series of documents that a new person can read to equip them for the road ahead. This will have the dual purpose of creating understanding among the newly arrived for processes of the board while granting freedom to existing members to feel they don't have to step so softly they can't enjoy their own experience.

Actually two documents should do it. The first we can call "Keeping ESMB Working", the second, ESMB Degrades. KEW will explain the mission of the board, the godliness and perseverance of our Founder, and why stepping over the line in any way makes one rightfully subject to whatever discipline is required. It will also insist on ACTIVE participation on the board so a failure to make enough posts and create interesting threads will also result in punishment. Of course one may not post or create so much that one stands out as too self-important, so one can see there is a fine line here.

ESMB Degrades will compile a list of all offenses which compromise KEW. For example, too much or not enough wit, too much or not enough vitriol, too much or not enough civility, where applicable, etc. Of course correct grammer, spelling, proper paragraphing, no run on sentences, etc., is vital, and any lack of just general rightness is a fault.

With the above in place I don't see how any new person would suffer consternation and in fact would likely post much sooner and to greater effect, and in a truly proper way that will assure the eternal existence of ESMB.

Let's do it right, huh?
 
People newly leaving the cofs very often are attracted to the freezone as they may still believe in the mirage of promised 'ot' states. Those people, coming to this board, are able to see the freezoners in an environment where their ideas are questioned and shot down by the rest of us.

If this didn't exist then they may go straight to the freezone forums and be lost in the drivel.

But I am surprised to see people discussing scn technology here in a positive light, and on one thread after I posted something mildly critical they went on to comment that the thread had gone awry. What were they expecting on this board.... ? :duh:

I say don't allow freezone promotion (e.g. in tag lines) but tolerate proper discussion. The rest of us need to be vigilant in not tolerating any bullshit.

The freezoners often show themselves for what they are, and this can't be a bad thing for people trying to figure out their own way.

Zander
 
To be honest,

I think I foresaw the time when Scientologists here would be herded up and shot.

Pixie,
I read what Teril wrote which I felt was disgusting and then his sudden amnesia was just worst. If you have read some of the posts here regarding Teril you will have noticed that a former UK FZ'er attacked Teril heavily and claimed that Teril was involved with the break-up and demise of the UK Freezone (well, his own group which had declining membership, with people going there happy to study but not getting the services or the treatment they expected). Do you think this type of promotion is effective? It may be that Teril does more harm than good for the FZ colleagues he has elected himself to represent (or in the case of IFA- he's beeen given the position).

Your evidently very hurt by your experiences in scientology and the Church is now reaping the effect of the spiritual harm it has caused people. To be honest, I was hurt too, though I have found it easier to move on than other people and have found myself lucky in that respect. I still study and read Scientology subjects at home but also read many other subjects on the spirit, occultism and sciences in order to get as many viewpoints as possible as I don't believe any one subject holds the full set of the cards on what is true, including Scientology. I choose not to be in the FZ as I feel it is TBH a fairly apathetic affair and the same old agendas and egos. Scientology did a damn lot of good for me and for the people I audited. I cannot speak for them now as I have not seen these PC's in years or know of what happened to them once I had left or how they feel about the subject. Many came and got what they wanted from the subject, felt better and went on their way which is really how it should be. I don't think it is fair for anyone here to superimpose their gains or their upsets onto others. It's very hard not to for many people on both sides of the fence.

The majority of ex-scientologists I have met don't post to the internet.
The majority of Freezoners I have met do not post to the net or have anything to do with these forums. I think it would be unfair to attack a group like Ron's Org on the back of the postings from Teril or LR when Teril probably participates in absolutely zero of that groups activities.

Teril elected himself commuications leader, rounded up all the contact details of people around the planet with the offer of procurring PCs. Teril is on all the communication lines. I bet you Teril will never give you a stat from a UK group such as WDAH (well done auditing hours) or BIS (Bodies in the shop) because he has thoroughly ARC_Xen the scene.

Suz1948,
At first I was suspicious of you because you seemed to ask questions without giving a lot away about yourself. Now I realise I remember who you are! I believe you were training at a very high level at Saint Hill. I won't say much else as you may want to be confidential.

Really I feel the FZ should be allowed a space here, this is the ex-scientologist message board, not the rabid critic board. There are many people here who are not ex-Scientologists but have free reign to post simply because their viewpoint is critical. You know, I always feel like people should be able to choose who they associate with, who they allow over their doorsteps. Sometimes I get a feeling about someone which is not nice and choose not to associate with them. The FZ seems to have an open door policy. Really the problem is is that no one is actually willing to get a grip on Teril in the FZ despite him being exposed here on this forum.

The FZ here are an easy target when there isn't a real Church Scientologist around to target. I have now decided to only go after or break away from people, individuals who have caused myself actual harm or upset and not go after the whole lot.
 
Zander said:
People newly leaving the cofs very often are attracted to the freezone as they may still believe in the mirage of promised 'ot' states. Those people, coming to this board, are able to see the freezoners in an environment where their ideas are questioned and shot down by the rest of us.

If this didn't exist then they may go straight to the freezone forums and be lost in the drivel.

But I am surprised to see people discussing scn technology here in a positive light, and on one thread after I posted something mildly critical they went on to comment that the thread had gone awry. What were they expecting on this board.... ? :duh:

I say don't allow freezone promotion (e.g. in tag lines) but tolerate proper discussion. The rest of us need to be vigilant in not tolerating any bullshit.

The freezoners often show themselves for what they are, and this can't be a bad thing for people trying to figure out their own way.

Zander
Click to expand...

agreed, well put.

:police:
 
Alanzo said:
I think a person has a fundamental right to live and believe however and whatever they want.

I think they have a right to be a Churchie, or a freezoner, or a "materialist", or a psychiatrist.

They just have to have some kind of logically consistent rationale, be able to communicate it in something other than slogans and bumper stickers and anti-psych spam, and they should be willing to listen and speak on all the topics that come their way.

If they can do all that, I don't care what they do or believe.

And I welcome them to compete in the "marketplace of ideas" along with everyone else.
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Well, that leaves me out.

Ban the Freezoners!
 
Zander said:
People newly leaving the cofs very often are attracted to the freezone as they may still believe in the mirage of promised 'ot' states. Those people, coming to this board, are able to see the freezoners in an environment where their ideas are questioned and shot down by the rest of us.

If this didn't exist then they may go straight to the freezone forums and be lost in the drivel.

But I am surprised to see people discussing scn technology here in a positive light, and on one thread after I posted something mildly critical they went on to comment that the thread had gone awry. What were they expecting on this board.... ?

I say don't allow freezone promotion (e.g. in tag lines) but tolerate proper discussion. The rest of us need to be vigilant in not tolerating any bullshit.

The freezoners often show themselves for what they are, and this can't be a bad thing for people trying to figure out their own way.
Click to expand...

Right, so people who claim to have had benefits from the Tech, a group in which I class myself, are, apparently, "bullshitters"...spouting "drivel"..."showing themselves for what they are", and are here "to be shot down by the rest of us."

Gotcha.

Whatever happened to the idea of tolerance for other viewpoints than one's own, or openness to the possibility that others might actually know something you don't?
 
Cat's Squirrel said:
Right, so people who claim to have had benefits from the Tech, a group in which I class myself, are, apparently, "bullshitters"...spouting "drivel"..."showing themselves for what they are", and are here "to be shot down by the rest of us."

Gotcha.

Whatever happened to the idea of tolerance for other viewpoints than one's own, or openness to the possibility that others might actually know something you don't?
Click to expand...

I agree with all you say.
 
Cat's Squirrel said:
Right, so people who claim to have had benefits from the Tech, a group in which I class myself, are, apparently, "bullshitters"...spouting "drivel"..."showing themselves for what they are", and are here "to be shot down by the rest of us."

Gotcha.

Whatever happened to the idea of tolerance for other viewpoints than one's own, or openness to the possibility that others might actually know something you don't?
Click to expand...


Well no not really.

Bottom line is that it has been shown in abundance from OG research, well researched and proven, referenced books, etc etc that 'all' or most all of scientology or dianetics comes from a different source. So, why keep the CON alive by giving a sociopath the credit and funds? Why support a cause that breaks up families, controls and tortures people? You may not be giving any more money but you saying 'the tech worked for you' is supporting the con ! Why not see where this tech came from, read THAT and say -hey that helped me or that works for me....steer people AWAY from a cult and into CRITICAL THINKING.

We all liked the simple outline, labelling, paradigm hubbard put all these ageless concepts and wisdom into-it made it easier to get in one place....only hello.....he changed it to create a cult, he changed it to keep you introverted, he changed it to control your mind, he changed it to make you a person who has to fit all that happens to you in life into a neat box/book that you can just flip to for an answer...WHAT A FREAKIN TRAP!

well....here is this book, this religion who put all the answers in books FOR US and so I will accept him as 'source'. That's what they insist upon--they have told me so! YOU MUST ACCEPT LRH AS SOURCE OR YOU ARE AN SP. So, you decide that because LRH did all the research himself so he says, you dont have to think anymore! HE TOLD US that he read it all and did it all so we dont have to bother to look ourselves !... and he put it together for US because he loves us and wants man to to be clear! So, it must be true .....so I dont have to go research myself and hey it's ok if I give him credit and treat his church and him as a deity....practically.

Cmon guys, give me a break here. LRH is NOT SOURCE, SCN IS NOT SOURCE, DN IS NOT SOURCE! Stop keeping the con alive.

Any temporary successes** I had in scn could have been gotten in so many other ways, without the damaging mind control, introversion, cult think, invalidation, and without me giving money to a false church supporting a crazy leader bent on world domination and torturing it's members.

So I say, take your wins.

Then confront the fact that scn and dn basics have been around for a lot longer than LRonn was, and there is much in society that offers long term relief and help without indoctrination and highway robbery.

I just dont see how folks want to keep saying the tech works knowing the facts that are right in front of our faces....I will never get it!
 
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