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ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

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acertainratio said:
I think it's got further to go, but I feel we are getting somewhere by talking about something that obviously needed talking about.

This is what I want:

No recruiting for any flavour of Scientology.

No free adevrtising of any flavour of Scientology.

No PMing of new arrivals with what is actually SPAM in the form of information about any flavour of Scientology.



It might not come to pass, but that's what I want and I want it because I think it's appropriate for where we are.

Details can be worked out and if people don't want what I want I can live with the wishes of the the consensus.

If I'm wrong tell me why.
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Who could argue with this? If we really call ourselves ex-Scientologists, who could argue?
 
PMing new arrivals? I hadn't heard of that.

It didn't happen to me, but I pretty much came out with guns blazing so they'd know not to waste their bullshit on me. So though I have no proof it happened, I'd be against that if it did. I don't know how to stop it, but that's counter-productive to a person escaping a mind-control cult. "Oh here, have a strawberry version.. woo hoo."

uh... No. That's just bullshit.

I've tried to engage some freezoners here in legitimate debate and - once you weed your way past their cryptic, pseudo-Siddhartha meanderings and their doubletalk some either just gainsay or call you a troll.

I can think of one particularly egregious asshole who doesn't have the balls to stand up to questioning, but - I need to say - I still have respect for those who engage honestly. My beef isn't with that type.

But to peddle your wares to newcomers? If that's happening, that would be sick.
 
acertainratio said:
No recruiting for any flavour of Scientology.

No free adevrtising of any flavour of Scientology.
Click to expand...
I think these two above would cause the moderators TONS of work, and I can guarantee that you yourself will end up being accused of recruiting for and advertising some flavor of Scientology before the week is out.

It would cause this place to become so heavily moderated that it would totally suck to be here.

I think.

But this:

No PMing of new arrivals with what is actually SPAM in the form of information about any flavour of Scientology.
Click to expand...
Has legs.

And it is easily enforced without tons of undue moderation.

There can be a sticky or something for all new members that any PM you receive with a pitch of any Scientology at all, or any other mental or commercial practice, is to be reported immediately.

And then they can ban the offender pretty easily, and with as little mis-interpretation and hypocrisy as possible.
 
Alanzo said:
Well, I have had the thought many times:

As long as I contribute to a message board on the subject of Scientology, talking to people about Scientology, even if as an EX, I am not freeing myself from Scientology.

I'm still in it.

Just in a different form.
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Reading & Posting is the only thing that got me OUT. That statement makes no sense Alanzo:whistling: .

This board and others allow a person to unearth every lingering question you ever had in scn with new information and real world data. It allows a person to strip the cult layers off by covering every angle of it with the truth from others and books.

Let's see if I am still 'in' just because I post, according to alanzo's comments.... well then when I was really 'in' I must of been part of the wallpaper at FLAG!
 
Boldgirl said:
Reading & Posting is the only thing that got me OUT. That statement makes no sense Alanzo:whistling: .

This board and others allow a person to unearth every lingering question you ever had in scn with new information and real world data. It allows a person to strip the cult layers off by covering every angle of it with the truth from others and books.

Let's see if I am still 'in' just because I post, according to alanzo's comments.... well then when I was really 'in' I must of been part of the wallpaper at FLAG!
Click to expand...

I think maybe that I would add that posting as a way of recovery is a limited process.

It can't go on forever with you saying you are "getting out" and "recovering".

At some point, It has to come to an end.

Is 5700 hundreds posts enough?

It's a question I ask myself, that's all.
 
Alanzo said:
I think maybe that I would add that posting as a way of recovery is a limited process.

It can't go on forever with you saying you are "getting out" and "recovering".

At some point, It has to come to an end.

Is 5700 hundreds posts enough?

It's a question I ask myself, that's all.
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Alanzo,
I think you aren't just doing this for your own recovery. I think you want the injustice fixed. I think you want others to recover too.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Alanzo said:
I think maybe that I would add that posting as a way of recovery is a limited process.

It can't go on forever with you saying you are "getting out" and "recovering".

At some point, It has to come to an end.

Is 5700 hundreds posts enough?

It's a question I ask myself, that's all.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe you just had 5700 doubts or angles to unearth...? I will say that the 1st time I pressed 'submit reply' when I proclaimed that SCN was CRAP on this board ,in so many words, I was petrified. Now the final step will be going to an org or going to a protest and saying the same thing--then I will be free.....until OSA shows up at my door that is.....:whistling:
 
Alanzo said:
I think these two above would cause the moderators TONS of work, and I can guarantee that you yourself will end up being accused of recruiting for and advertising some flavor of Scientology before the week is out.

It would cause this place to become so heavily moderated that it would totally suck to be here.

I think.

But this:

Has legs.

And it is easily enforced without tons of undue moderation.

There can be a sticky or something for all new members that any PM you receive with a pitch of any Scientology at all, or any other mental or commercial practice, is to be reported immediately.

And then they can ban the offender pretty easily, and with as little mis-interpretation and hypocrisy as possible.
Click to expand...


I agree with this. There is no practical way to 'ban advertising' (everything's 'free' here) or recruiting, because it's common human nature to express enthusiasms and opinions. If somebody thinks they got good stuff from 'The Lower Levels' and only sees problems with the 'Upper Levels', that's what they're going to say. Likewise, somebody who's run into Idenics may feel like expressing that enthusiasm.

There's just no hard and fast way to draw a line there on 'what's advertising'. It's more a case of posting with civility. We disagree and we *will* disagree and no amount of debate, however long-winded or passionate is going to change that. I think we're all grown ups, and, when it becomes noticeable that harping on *any* theme is getting disruptive, it's probably time to loosen up on the throttle, even when it means not getting the treasured 'last word'.

For the most part, I think people do that here. The 'Idenics' people have done a pretty decent job of backing off from the 'Idenics can help you with that' enthusiasm in the past months, and I think we all appreciate that. Likewise, even the Tech Lovers tend to accept my (and others') considering even the 'TRs' to be hypnotic mind-fuck without more than the occassional snarky growl. And, I dont' feel the necessity to jump into *every* 'I like the Tech' discussion with some cogent monkeywrenching, even if I run the risk of being associated with Scilons (gasp).

But, I also agree; there couild and should be a ban on PM or email contact with 'newbies' offering 'services'. Of any kind.

Zinj
 
Repeat post

I am sure you old timer posters have seen this stuff--but me being a newbie and reading this in Hassans 'Releasing the Bonds' book really hit me like a ton of bricks. Lifton wrote that if a group demonstrates all eight criteria that it is using destructive mind control versus just a few criteria)

SCN exhibits all eight! You know if I had just gone to that philospohy class in college I might of just read this stuff and saved myself all the heartache of being in the cult SCN,

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform
1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
2. Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)
 
Alanzo said:
I think maybe that I would add that posting as a way of recovery is a limited process.

It can't go on forever with you saying you are "getting out" and "recovering".

At some point, It has to come to an end.

Is 5700 hundreds posts enough?

It's a question I ask myself, that's all.
Click to expand...

I thought you haven't been getting out, you are being Alanzo, white knight, charger, and all. That isn't a criticism, we all would like to be that and you have pulled it off!
 
Posting to help others

Alanzo--

Of course you had to post so much-if you and others had stopped when you were 'out', what would there have been for me to read to get out myself?
 
Alanzo said:
So -

Have we had it all out yet?

When does this thread end?

And how?

Will Emma come on here and make "reforms" in the area of Freezoners and ESMB?

Or will we be the first thread to hit 1000 posts in three days?
Click to expand...

People are on this thread because they are getting their Scientology Havingness back. They have been without it for a while.

.
 
Alanzo said:
I think these two above would cause the moderators TONS of work, and I can guarantee that you yourself will end up being accused of recruiting for and advertising some flavor of Scientology before the week is out.

It would cause this place to become so heavily moderated that it would totally suck to be here.

I think.

But this:

Has legs.

And it is easily enforced without tons of undue moderation.

There can be a sticky or something for all new members that any PM you receive with a pitch of any Scientology at all, or any other mental or commercial practice, is to be reported immediately.

And then they can ban the offender pretty easily, and with as little mis-interpretation and hypocrisy as possible.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments.

I don't propose active policing of these points - I just propose that they be amended to the forum rules and guidelines.

I have enough faith left in people to believe that all but the rare exception will respect them if stated.

But the PMing thing should receive a warning if someone receives it and complains.

So no, I don't want more policing - I just want a simple change in the rules - if that's what other people want.
 
Alanzo said:
I think maybe that I would add that posting as a way of recovery is a limited process.

It can't go on forever with you saying you are "getting out" and "recovering".

At some point, It has to come to an end.

Is 5700 hundreds posts enough?

It's a question I ask myself, that's all.
Click to expand...

Respect.
 
Vinaire said:
People are on this thread because they are getting their Scientology Havingness back. They have been without it for a while.

.
Click to expand...

OH GAWD, VOMIT...I DONT THINK SO! Now where is that smiley that vomits...? :drool: ok that's close enough.
 
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