ESMB Poster "David Mayo"

[Caliwog]

As I said earlier, yeah sure, the "data" is FAR more relevant and important than the "personality" forwarding or creating the data.

I think that there are many cases in history of some very important and positive work being done by some real assholes. A lot of the time, the character of the discoverer/inventor does not matter.

But there are some cases where you have to look at motivation, and I think self-help and religion are among these. One has to decide what Hubbard's purpose was: To help Mankind or to help himself. That affects the validity of the tech.

I think most of you know what I believe. In my observations, much of that in the Tech which does work was discovered elsewhere (though Hubbard may not say so). I also think that some of the tech that *seems* to work does so for reasons other than the Tech itself. (For example, in the Admin Tech, the fact that everyone using the same rulebook streamlines things and makes things go well. In truth, though, the Management Technology isn't any better than the WOG way of doing things.)

But I digress. Again. What was I saying?

ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com

 

[JackStraw]

Isn't that the best we can ask for? No matter what the context or venue? In other words: Do the best you can based on the data you have available. Be kind to one another.

Also, bring chocolate.

There, I think that takes care of everything.

Hear, Hear!

I've given up most ologies and isms and now hold only (mostly) with

The Gospel of Bill & Ted: "be Excellent to each other."

Jack

 

[Gadfly]

Hear, Hear!

I've given up most ologies and isms and now hold only (mostly) with

The Gospel of Bill & Ted: "Be Excellent to each other."

Jack

I agree.

++++++++

 

[Free to shine]

You make a very important point here. I've become increasingly convinced that a person's health and well being are strongly connected with the person's sense of her/his worth to others and society. If the person has been both privately and publicly ridiculed and made to feel worthless, then that person can easily become depressed and become more susceptible to illness.

On the point about wasting our lives. This is something I think about almost daily. A few ways I think a person can waste their life are: to not enjoy it, to disconnect from friends and family, and to cease making positive contributions to society. The contributions don't have to be grandiose.

I think this forum is making a grand contribution to society and the people responsible for it (THANK YOU EMMA), and the posters are all doing their bit.

One of the hardest things many ex scientologists face is having to find real self worth as an individual, not as part of a group with it's false accolades. Also losing something as grand a purpose as "saving the planet" can be hard to cope with. This is my area of interest, both for myself and others and I do like what you have written. Sharing our thoughts here helps many who don't post as well, simply knowing you are not alone is huge.

 

[Hatshepsut]

What was it we were saving the planet from? Oh yeah...ourselves.

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, I think we were saving it from the bleak future of perpetual enslavement as envisioned by a criminal totalitarian overlord... hey, wait a minute!

 

[Hatshepsut]

Yeah, that IS funny!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Yeah, that IS funny!

Well it would be if there wasn't an uncomfortable degree of truth to it. Humans & politics being as they are, it's getting difficult to tell 'criminal totalitarian overlords' the one from another.

PROGRAMS! Get your PROGRAMS! Can't tell the players without your PROGRAMS!


Mark A. Baker

 

[Hatshepsut]

PROGRAMS! Get your PROGRAMS! Can't tell the players without your PROGRAMS!


Mark A. Baker

_

 

[FoTi]

Well, I said it didn't matter to me but I guess deep down it really does. Sometimes I can't stand him ... Oh is that a mirror I'm looking at?

D

......maybe you better get rid of that mirror...

 

[MostlyLurker]

You make a very important point here. I've become increasingly convinced that a person's health and well being are strongly connected with the person's sense of her/his worth to others and society. If the person has been both privately and publicly ridiculed and made to feel worthless, then that person can easily become depressed and become more susceptible to illness.

On the point about wasting our lives. This is something I think about almost daily. A few ways I think a person can waste their life are: to not enjoy it, to disconnect from friends and family, and to cease making positive contributions to society. The contributions don't have to be grandiose.

I think this forum is making a grand contribution to society and the people responsible for it (THANK YOU EMMA), and the posters are all doing their bit.

Thank you.

We were lead to believe we were the only ones doing something when, in fact, all we were doing was supporting a guru (first) and a dictator (later) in their game of world domination.

I am often in amazement now at how many useful and altruistic activities people engage on. Greenpeace, Red Cross, Amnesty International, but also many many small associations of volunteers that assist the ills or in any way make living more enjoyable and fun. Vinaire with his math class is one example.

There are a lot of ways to contribute to a better world.

 

[anonomog]

I think that there are many cases in history of some very important and positive work being done by some real assholes. A lot of the time, the character of the discoverer/inventor does not matter.

But there are some cases where you have to look at motivation, and I think self-help and religion are among these. One has to decide what Hubbard's purpose was: To help Mankind or to help himself. That affects the validity of the tech.

.....snip....
ML,
Caliwog
http://caliwog.wordpress.com

Absolutely. If you are going to follow someone else's spiritual path that promises improvement in life, and you are willing to negate your own moral and spiritual code to do so, you are in effect trying to emulate that person's life, in order to get the same benefit the guru got. After all he is, or was, the living, breathing perfection of what he is promoting.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to check that the guru did, indeed, live a life worth emulating, that he did have a moral code that you can not only live with; but aspire to.

I would swallow the excuse that he was just a man with human faults if he wasn't selling a life improvement system.

 

[Vinaire]

Absolutely. If you are going to follow someone else's spiritual path that promises improvement in life, and you are willing to negate your own moral and spiritual code to do so, you are in effect trying to emulate that person's life, in order to get the same benefit the guru got. After all he is, or was, the living, breathing perfection of what he is promoting.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to check that the guru did, indeed, live a life worth emulating, that he did have a moral code that you can not only live with; but aspire to.

I would swallow the excuse that he was just a man with human faults if he wasn't selling a life improvement system.

It is always a mistake to take something at face value, or put a judgement (positive or negatie) there instead of simply looking.

.

 

[VaD]

It is always a mistake to take something at face value, or put a judgement (positive or negatie) there instead of simply looking.

.

Vinaire, what world do you live in?

and now, please answer separately:

What world/life have you been talking about?


P.S.
Your assertions about "you need to look" (while you yourself keep thinking and thinking and thinking) kinda gets on my nerve.
I believe people can see themselves where they need to think and where they need to look.
They don't need you telling them that.
Do you understand?

 

[Vinaire]

Vinaire, what world do you live in?

and now, please answer separately:

What world/life have you been talking about?


P.S.
Your assertions about "you need to look" (while you yourself keep thinking and thinking and thinking) kinda gets on my nerve.
I believe people can see themselves where they need to think and where they need to look.
They don't need you telling them that.
Do you understand?

Why do you read my posts?

Just look at that urge.

.

 

[VaD]

Why do you read my posts?

Just look at that urge.

.

I haven't been *hunting* for your posts. It just was there.

Normally, I just read what's there.

This thread is NOT yours.

The only urge I have is to make you look for yourself and stop making others "look" (which they've been doing just fine without you)

 

[Free to shine]

I haven't been *hunting* for your posts. It just was there.

Normally, I just read what's there.

This thread is NOT yours.

The only urge I have is to make you look for yourself and stop making others "look" (which they've been doing just fine without you)

Careful VaD, this could lead to a 20 page thread derail.

 

[VaD]

Careful VaD, this could lead to a 20 page thread derail.

Well, I think we are done with the subject of this thread, i.e "Is David Mayo really David Mayo or an impostor?"

- I'm just having fun with Vinaire('s BS) here.

 

[Gadfly]

Careful VaD, this could lead to a 20 page thread derail.

Yes, and Vin's participation often does THAT - derails threads.

Who or what would want to cause endless distraction on ESMB?

Really, I don't know if he does it intentionally or out of sheer stupidity. But, the fact is that he DOES do it.

Just look at how LITTLE discussion of anything related to Scientology is there is when Vin is around.

Note: It is often difficult to distinguish between acts of evil people and acts of stupid people. The results are the same, but the motivation differs. For me, I find either uninteresting and unenjoyable.

+++++++

 

[Panda Termint]

I'm thinking that Vinaire desires interaction. If someone were willing to interact with him on his own threads he wouldn't need to bring the subjects of those threads to other areas. We need a volunteer... it's a good cause in terms of the "greatest good for the greatest number of threads"... what's happening to me?