ESMBers to address senate committee in round table discussion

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

JANETTE, KEV, SCOOTS, JAMES and CARMEL - and ALL who helped!!

T H A N K Y O U !!!

For your courage, timing, your efforts, and integrity -
your shining light and your persistence -
and for writing history - and being the most important historical moment
of the last 50 - 60 years.

- and it's all happening in our lifetime!!!

You are truely free and an example for us all - and to think,
it was only a year ago sitting opposite a struggling 'OT' who was
doggedly flowing every $ to get through and onto his next 'level'
trying to 'complete' his Bridge'.
There was no way I would take that path -

May he and many others that are still
caught in the trap, allow themselves to discover the truth
- for themselves - and start 'living' their own lives again -
for themselves, their families and those estranged.

I couldn't have said it any better. Thanks guys and girls and Larry I have no doubt you did a fantastic job too.

Thanks

 

[Carmel]

I read that 30 OTs were there at the hearing. Presuambly they were ordered to be there. This must have been devastating and eye-opening for them at the same time. <snip>

A couple of years ago, I saw a newspaper article which featured "mate", talking about the CofS. I had known David (in the early eighties before he went up lines) and was fond of him when he was C/Sing for me as a trainee auditor and later when we both worked as C/Ses. I knew what David was saying was true, but I couldn't understand why he was publicly attacking the CofS or *how* he could do that. I found it very disturbing that he was making things public, and I was upset with him. By the same token, he was one I always trusted and respected, and couldn't help but wonder "why?" - My respect and trust in him was enough for me to not write him off, and enough to make me curious as to why someone like him could have abandoned hope for the future of the CofS and obviously sever allegiance with it. (Within a few weeks, I started to found out why, when I got on the net).

Out of all the Scios there (who made up the majority in the "gallery"), I'd say about three might have the same reaction as my reaction to what David did. No doubt they've been given a stack of slander on what we have supposed to have been doing. But being there hearing what we had to say, they would have known we were telling the truth and would have heard the OSA crew lie.

I knew all the Scios there, except for two of them. Another three who were there, were close family friends (for over two decades). There were also close friends of James and Kev's there. I knew that these old mates of mine were very upset with me, and two of the three couldn't even look at me. I had rung Emma earlier when I discovered my old close mates were there, because it upset me and I needed a quick chill pill. Emms gave me the chill pill - When it came to my old mates, I went into that hearing with the view that 1) Yes, they would finally get to hear and see that we weren't as the CofS were painting us out to be, and 2) they'd get some degree of insight as to what we were on about, and why, and just maybe, it'd give them something to think about.

I think this would only apply to about three or four of them, out of all who attended. The rest, well, they can go jump in the lake - I never liked them when I was in, they weren't the types to care about anybody but themselves, and they are the types who forward everything we object to about Scn.

I think the day of hearings would indeed have been an eye opener on several fronts, but only to a very few of the Scios in attendance.

 

[The Great Zorg]

Most cool job: epic win!

I've watched part of the roundtable and I have to say that you guys and gals that appeared have got to be the coolest of the cool, the toughest of the tough and the bravest of the brave. I would have been a shaking mess and probably would have exited, stage left, especially whilst being in the same room as the operated on clams and their death stings!

Kudos to you all. Well done!

 

[OTBT]

I purposefully sat in the back row of the hearing so I could watch all the "OT"s sent to...... well... actually, I'm not sure what they were sent to do......."Back up the Co$" ?

Nearly ALL of these OTs were BIs. They were not a happy bunch. Good old Pat Jarvis and Ken Klaebe were about the only Scios there with a bit of a smile.
If Norm Oleary looked any blacker, the room would have started to cave in. I personally looked at them all. Very interesting.

Heh. This is wonderful news. Hopefully they will all blow very soon.

 

[Doom]

A couple of years ago, I saw a newspaper article which featured "mate", talking about the CofS. I had known David (in the early eighties before he went up lines) and was fond of him when he was C/Sing for me as a trainee auditor and later when we both worked as C/Ses. I knew what David was saying was true, but I couldn't understand why he was publicly attacking the CofS or *how* he could do that. I found it very disturbing that he was making things public, and I was upset with him. By the same token, he was one I always trusted and respected, and couldn't help but wonder "why?" - My respect and trust in him was enough for me to not write him off, and enough to make me curious as to why someone like him could have abandoned hope for the future of the CofS and obviously sever allegiance with it. (Within a few weeks, I started to found out why, when I got on the net).

Out of all the Scios there (who made up the majority in the "gallery"), I'd say about three might have the same reaction as my reaction to what David did. No doubt they've been given a stack of slander on what we have supposed to have been doing. But being there hearing what we had to say, they would have known we were telling the truth and would have heard the OSA crew lie.

I knew all the Scios there, except for two of them. Another three who were there, were close family friends (for over two decades). There were also close friends of James and Kev's there. I knew that these old mates of mine were very upset with me, and two of the three couldn't even look at me. I had rung Emma earlier when I discovered my old close mates were there, because it upset me and I needed a quick chill pill. Emms gave me the chill pill - When it came to my old mates, I went into that hearing with the view that 1) Yes, they would finally get to hear and see that we weren't as the CofS were painting us out to be, and 2) they'd get some degree of insight as to what we were on about, and why, and just maybe, it'd give them something to think about.

I think this would only apply to about three or four of them, out of all who attended. The rest, well, they can go jump in the lake - I never liked them when I was in, they weren't the types to care about anybody but themselves, and they are the types who forward everything we object to about Scn.

I think the day of hearings would indeed have been an eye opener on several fronts, but only to a very few of the Scios in attendance.

Yet another Footbullet for the CoS, not only did they look like a bunch of
bumbling liars in front of the senate and the rest of Australia but the also
did it in front of the Highest OTs in Australia.

OSA would have been better off sending some poo chucking chimps,
at least the humor would have been universal. As it was they sent,
what looked more like the Z-Team and in the process sullied up the
last remaining opinion leaders within the CoS.

I don't Know what they paid the barrister but she was worth every cent,
in fact next time I need a Coffee I will hire her. Oh wait I get it "Barrister" isnt
"Barrista" sorry my mistake, I stand by my former statement because,
everyone has to be good at something.

 

[freethinker]

The ESMB Roundtable represented extremely well. James presenting of the the policy on LRH's reverse view of charity, to me, was eye opening to the Senators.

Key points for me.

1. All the exes presented well and answered questions as well as anyone could even if practised at it.

2. The Scientology tax Barrister was totaly unprepared and was pushing the wrong issue because she was instructed to by the church. Evidence of this occured when Senator Cameron stated that the bill was not about religious freedom. That stunned the entire scio crew.

3.Senator Cameron's dissection of Mike Ferris's testimony to the point of ludicrousy.

4. Senator Xenaphon's picking up that Virginia Stewart was completely rehearsed and shrewdly took her apart and got her to agree that the public benefits test was not harmful to the church if their statements were true regarding their charitable stance.

5. Those Senators can spot good testimony from a bad one any day of the week. They are incredibly sharp and can see through the PR in their sleep. They've done this many times and their good at it.

6. The chairman stated that Carmels testimony was highly relevent to the issue at hand.

7. The church is defending religious freedom when the Bill is about tax exemption based on charitability to the public at large. They just don't get it.

I score it CO$ 0 Truth 7

 

[AnonyMary]

The ESMB Roundtable represented extremely well. James presenting of the the policy on LRH's reverse view of charity, to me, was eye opening to the Senators.

Key points for me.

1. All the exes presented well and answered questions as well as anyone could even if practised at it.

2. The Scientology tax Barrister was totaly unprepared and was pushing the wrong issue because she was instructed to by the church. Evidence of this occured when Senator Cameron stated that the bill was not about religious freedom. That stunned the entire scio crew.

3.Senator Cameron's dissection of Mike Ferris's testimony to the point of ludicrousy.

4. Senator Xenaphon's picking up that Virginia Stewart was completely rehearsed and shrewdly took her apart and got her to agree that the public benefits test was not harmful to the church if their statements were true regarding their charitable stance.

5. Those Senators can spot good testimony from a bad one any day of the week. They are incredibly sharp and can see through the PR in their sleep. They've done this many times and their good at it.

6. The chairman stated that Carmels testimony was highly relevent to the issue at hand.

7. The church is defending religious freedom when the Bill is about tax exemption based on charitability to the public at large. They just don't get it.

I score it CO$ 0 Truth 7

^^^^
This!!!

 

[scooter]

A couple of things that I noticed on the day:

The OATEEs were all wearing basically the same clothes that they've had for years - even one of the parliamentary staff commented on their dress code.

The OATEEs all looked physically ill - grey, gaunt and hunched (with one or two exceptions) and the OSAbots didn't scrub up any better.

Whatever OATEE POWAZ they may have been using in the room, they certainly didn't affect me in the slightest - my attention was totally on what was happening so that's a flunk for all those OATEEs there.

My suspicion is that the legal team and OSAbots were somewhere in Parliament House listening to the ESMBers in the morning (Feral and I saw their barrister very early in the main lobby of the House) and the OATEEs were there to "protect" them and the population of Earth from any mention of volcanoes, BTs etc. (as well as to intimidate us from carrying out our "suppressive acts.") This will no doubt be broadcast as a 'win" for "The Force" and a huge blow to "The Dark Side."

The fact that the Senators on the Inquiry stated it wasn't about Scientology nor religious freedom will be twisted somehow into a "win."

The whole strategy they followed was one that had been cooked up by persons unknown who had no idea of what really happens in the real world - the barrister was plainly following orders as to how to proceed and the whole cult presentation was high farce. That probably few of the OATEEs would have noticed as they were busy defending the wogs from the SPs with their OATEE POWAZ.

I doubt that the cult even has a glimmer of what actually happened in the last few days - I'm sure all the "wins" have been reported and "we" are supposed to have failed badly, such is the unreality of the people I saw there on Monday.

This Inquiry will be spoken about around Parliament for quite a while and, if any there had any doubts about how crazed the culties were, they would have been converted to true believers in the wackiness and abusiveness of the cult by the "performance" on Monday.

 

[Outethicsofficer]

Damn Paul again you summarise the scene so well leaving me with not much to add other than to say...I had a lot of fun. If the church thought they could intimidate us with their Oat Tee's...fail!

In fact they were truly the sadest of indivduals I have seen in quite some time...it threw one of them when I got him to shake my hand and at least acknowledge me.

James

 

[gerry]

I have never seen someone come out of the Church and turn around and fight them as quickly and effectively as you have. It is a testament to your integrity and your leadership.

You, and all the others, have definitely created a milestone in the fight against Scientology abuse.

That is so true Alanzo

 

[gerry]

Team ESMB built a 900hp monster, said "forget the heavy paint" and then lapped the Nürburgring in sub 7min style.

Team CoS built an expensive car with the brightest paint job and just on starting, fried the clutch and spun a bearing just before crashing into a parked car and then catching on fire.

 

[Tiger Lily]

I thought I had worked through all my emotion about the CofS, but I have to say that after reading this morning I am literally breathless, dumbstruck and in joyful tears about what is happening. The pace right now is overwhelming, and things appear to be crumbling for the CofS faster than I ever could have anticipated. It really IS worse than you think!

I know that it'll be a long road, but what you all there in Australia have done is so amazing and inspiring and courageous. . . I'm sure that other governments (hopefully the US very soon) will take notice of this, and other exes will be strengthened by your courage and your success to do the same in their own countries.

LRH commented on that "Aussie case" -- maybe that was one thing he got right!

I admire and respect you all so much!

-TL

 

[Lurker5]

A couple of years ago, I saw a newspaper article which featured "mate", talking about the CofS. I had known David (in the early eighties before he went up lines) and was fond of him when he was C/Sing for me as a trainee auditor and later when we both worked as C/Ses. I knew what David was saying was true, but I couldn't understand why he was publicly attacking the CofS or *how* he could do that. I found it very disturbing that he was making things public, and I was upset with him. By the same token, he was one I always trusted and respected, and couldn't help but wonder "why?" - My respect and trust in him was enough for me to not write him off, and enough to make me curious as to why someone like him could have abandoned hope for the future of the CofS and obviously sever allegiance with it. (Within a few weeks, I started to found out why, when I got on the net).

Out of all the Scios there (who made up the majority in the "gallery"), I'd say about three might have the same reaction as my reaction to what David did. No doubt they've been given a stack of slander on what we have supposed to have been doing. But being there hearing what we had to say, they would have known we were telling the truth and would have heard the OSA crew lie.

I knew all the Scios there, except for two of them. Another three who were there, were close family friends (for over two decades). There were also close friends of James and Kev's there. I knew that these old mates of mine were very upset with me, and two of the three couldn't even look at me. I had rung Emma earlier when I discovered my old close mates were there, because it upset me and I needed a quick chill pill. Emms gave me the chill pill - When it came to my old mates, I went into that hearing with the view that 1) Yes, they would finally get to hear and see that we weren't as the CofS were painting us out to be, and 2) they'd get some degree of insight as to what we were on about, and why, and just maybe, it'd give them something to think about.

I think this would only apply to about three or four of them, out of all who attended. The rest, well, they can go jump in the lake - I never liked them when I was in, they weren't the types to care about anybody but themselves, and they are the types who forward everything we object to about Scn.

I think the day of hearings would indeed have been an eye opener on several fronts, but only to a very few of the Scios in attendance.

Wow, the effing courage of all of you blows me away. You are un-effing-believable. That must have been so un-nerving, and you went in and did it - magnificently (may I add) - anyway. Holy Mother . . .

What can I say, except THANK YOU - and BRAVO - and WELL DONE - and THANK YOU :dance2:

This - what you did - brings tears to my eyes. I am so astounded . . .
Gees, thank you.

 

[Nightingale]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Gandhi

 

[Alanzo]

A couple of things that I noticed on the day:

The OATEEs were all wearing basically the same clothes that they've had for years - even one of the parliamentary staff commented on their dress code.

The OATEEs all looked physically ill - grey, gaunt and hunched (with one or two exceptions) and the OSAbots didn't scrub up any better.

Whatever OATEE POWAZ they may have been using in the room, they certainly didn't affect me in the slightest - my attention was totally on what was happening so that's a flunk for all those OATEEs there.

My suspicion is that the legal team and OSAbots were somewhere in Parliament House listening to the ESMBers in the morning (Feral and I saw their barrister very early in the main lobby of the House) and the OATEEs were there to "protect" them and the population of Earth from any mention of volcanoes, BTs etc. (as well as to intimidate us from carrying out our "suppressive acts.") This will no doubt be broadcast as a 'win" for "The Force" and a huge blow to "The Dark Side."

The fact that the Senators on the Inquiry stated it wasn't about Scientology nor religious freedom will be twisted somehow into a "win."

The whole strategy they followed was one that had been cooked up by persons unknown who had no idea of what really happens in the real world - the barrister was plainly following orders as to how to proceed and the whole cult presentation was high farce. That probably few of the OATEEs would have noticed as they were busy defending the wogs from the SPs with their OATEE POWAZ.

I doubt that the cult even has a glimmer of what actually happened in the last few days - I'm sure all the "wins" have been reported and "we" are supposed to have failed badly, such is the unreality of the people I saw there on Monday.

This Inquiry will be spoken about around Parliament for quite a while and, if any there had any doubts about how crazed the culties were, they would have been converted to true believers in the wackiness and abusiveness of the cult by the "performance" on Monday.

Way to go, Paul! You've been on TV, you've spoken on the street, veins popping, to crowds of people with a bull horn, and now you've presented an argument to the Australian Senate. What's next?

Are you looking to be the first astronaut in the Australian space program?

Thank you very much, Paul, for doing what you did. You provide a blueprint for how it's done.

I have a question for you, though:

It was only a few paragraphs into your presentation when they shut off the cameras. And then they turned the cameras back on, and you finished your presentation.

What happened when the cameras went off?

Did they make you change your presentation, or what?

 

[Alanzo]

Damn Paul again you summarise the scene so well leaving me with not much to add other than to say...I had a lot of fun. If the church thought they could intimidate us with their Oat Tee's...fail!

In fact they were truly the sadest of indivduals I have seen in quite some time...it threw one of them when I got him to shake my hand and at least acknowledge me.

James

That was a great point you made, very clearly, about how Hubbard taught that you are doing people harm by giving them charity.

It was extremely powerful.

Thank you very much for that.

 

[xseaorguk]

Hubbard quote

where does Hubbard actually state that about when you give somebody charity that it actually harms them?
Anybody know?

 

[Axiom142]

where does Hubbard actually state that about when you give somebody charity that it actually harms them?
Anybody know?

From HCOPL 4 April 1972 – Ethics:

“When exchange is out the whole social balance goes out.

Every full scholarship ever given by an org wound up in a messy scene.

When you hire a professional pc who just sits around making do-less motions while people audit him and contribute to him, DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF HE GETS SICKER AND SICKER.

He is contributing nothing in return and winds up in overwhelm!

Similarly, if you actively prevented someone from contributing in return, you could also make him ARC broken and sick.”

…

“It is interesting that when a person becomes productive his morale improves.

Reversely, it should be rather plain to you that a person who doesn’t produce becomes mentally or physically ill. For his exchange factor is out.”

And other similar references.

Axiom142

 

[nozeno]

From HCOPL 4 April 1972 – Ethics:

“When exchange is out the whole social balance goes out.

Every full scholarship ever given by an org wound up in a messy scene.

When you hire a professional pc who just sits around making do-less motions while people audit him and contribute to him, DO NOT BE SURPRISED IF HE GETS SICKER AND SICKER.

He is contributing nothing in return and winds up in overwhelm!

Similarly, if you actively prevented someone from contributing in return, you could also make him ARC broken and sick.”

…

“It is interesting that when a person becomes productive his morale improves.

Reversely, it should be rather plain to you that a person who doesn’t produce becomes mentally or physically ill. For his exchange factor is out.”

And other similar references.

Axiom142

I see what you are doing there with that GREEN font.

You can't trick me.

 

[Axiom142]

Wow!

Well done Carmel, James, Janette, Kevin and Scooter and everyone who backed them up. You guys were awesome!

Obviously this hearing was not only about the ‘church’ of Scientology, but getting them in the spotlight and seeing them squirm was a very gratifying sight.

And, we can always seem to count on a footbullet or two!

I mean, they come mob-handed to put the committee in their place and shoot this proposed Bill down and Mike Ferris admits that an equivalent law in NZ hasn’t been detrimental to the CoS, thus completely wiping out their whole argument in one fell stroke.

It was a great spot by Senator Cameron by noting that the CoS in NZ very suspiciously had a huge drop in reported income immediately after new regulations came into force. And the explanation for this by Ferris was priceless.

When the CoS gets its comeuppance and has to atone for all the abuses committed in its name, it will be because courageous and dedicated people like yourselves had the guts to stand up and do something about it.

Axiom142