Anonycat
Crusader
I'm with you, Bri. These haters are moonbats. I was a Marcabian from the tail of the Big Dipper. We actually had red skies.
Ex-member of the CoS- Brian Cox
- Thread starter 2briancox
- Start date
2briancox
Patron
Everything you said is pretty much something I disagree with. You have no idea what I've experienced.
Here's your opinion back. Thanks though.
Lone Star
Crusader
The Jeopardy theme song is still playing.....
Free Being Me
Crusader
So love, much less any other qualities, which aren't taught by hubbard, are fine to do without. I saw nothing in scientology but narcissism. What a barren world.
Jquepublic
Silver Meritorious Patron
Speaking for myself, I didn't need Hubbard to teach me how to love, or feel compassion, or to be kind. Those things were in my nature, and still are. I will say that I nearly lost those abilities during my time in CoS, or more precisely lost touch with them, but had I not been submerged in that environment, it might have been much different.
It's all about the journey. Everybody has to start somewhere, right?
Lone Star
Crusader
I'm extremely anti-CoS but I knew people who were motivated by love within it. It certainly wasn't the majority. It was a sizable minority though. You'll find narcissists in every group and religion. Especially religion.
Purple Rain
Crusader
So what if the truth is that all women want to be raped and are secretly glad when it happens?
programmer_guy
True Ex-Scientologist
Anonycat
Crusader
Speaking for myself, I didn't need Hubbard to teach me how to love, or feel compassion, or to be kind. Those things were in my nature, and still are. I will say that I nearly lost those abilities during my time in CoS, or more precisely lost touch with them, but had I not been submerged in that environment, it might have been much different.
It's all about the journey. Everybody has to start somewhere, right?
Love is not on the tone scale. That makes scientology a total failure. See the bottom of the scale.
40.0 Serenity of beingness
30.0 Postulates
22.0 Games
20.0 Action
8.0 Exhilaration
6.0 Aesthetic
4.0 Enthusiasm
3.5 Cheerfulness
3.3 Strong interest
3.0 Conservatism
2.9 Mild interest
2.8 Contented
2.6 Disinterested
2.5 Boredom
2.4 Monotony
2.0 Antagonism
1.9 Hostility
1.8 Pain
1.5 Anger
1.4 Hate
1.3 Resentment
1.2 No sympathy
1.15 Unexpressed resentment
1.1 Covert hostility
1.02 Anxiety
1.0 Fear
0.98 Despair
0.96 Terror
0.94 Numb
0.9 Sympathy
0.8 Propitiation
0.5 Grief
0.375 Making amends
0.3 Undeserving
0.2 Self-abasement
0.1 Victim
0.07 Hopeless
0.05 Apathy
0.03 Useless
0.01 Dying
0.0 Body death
- 0.01Failure
- 0.1 Pity
- 0.2 Shame
- 0.7 Accountable
- 1.0 Blame
- 1.3 Regret
- 1.5 Controlling bodies
- 2.2 Protecting bodies
- 3.0 Owning bodies
- 3.5 Approval from bodies
- 4.0 Needing bodies
- 5.0 Worshipping bodies
- 6.0 Sacrifice
- 8.0 Hiding
-10.0 Being objects
-20.0 Being nothing
-30.0 Can't hide
-40.0 Total failure
Purple Rain
Crusader
What is true for you is true for you.
Well, that one's more a delusion than a truth - like the Marcabian red sky.
Lone Star
Crusader
Some ideas and practices LRH found in other disciplines and philosophies. Some were developed by his early followers, or "co-researchers". Other ideas, the stupidest ideas, he just pulled right out of his ass like the Tone Scale.
Lone Star
Crusader
Three days ago Brian wrote this:
".....And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me".
And I replied the same day with this...
"In your opinion, how does someone seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon?
This is a sincere question. I'm not going to invalidate whatever your answer is. I truly want to know. If you are hesitant to answer in the open then feel free to PM me".
He has posted quite a bit over the past three days, but he hasn't answered the question. No Scientologist has ever answered this question that I know of, whether an active CoSer, Freezoner, or Independent. That's because there is no "Clear phenomenon" and there is certainly no "OT phenomenon". So why do they still at times suggest that there is when even they know it's BS? I have to assume Brian knows it's BS because he won't answer.
Delusional. Just plain delusional.
Carry on....
".....And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me".
And I replied the same day with this...
"In your opinion, how does someone seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon?
This is a sincere question. I'm not going to invalidate whatever your answer is. I truly want to know. If you are hesitant to answer in the open then feel free to PM me".
He has posted quite a bit over the past three days, but he hasn't answered the question. No Scientologist has ever answered this question that I know of, whether an active CoSer, Freezoner, or Independent. That's because there is no "Clear phenomenon" and there is certainly no "OT phenomenon". So why do they still at times suggest that there is when even they know it's BS? I have to assume Brian knows it's BS because he won't answer.
Delusional. Just plain delusional.
Carry on....
TG1
Angelic Poster
Brian,
I don't mean this as an "evaluation," but I offer it as a fact for your inspection: You're a Scientology noob.
You've wandered into a room full of people who have considerably more Scientology auditing and training experience than you do.
Do you think this many "OTs" could be wrong?
TG1
I don't mean this as an "evaluation," but I offer it as a fact for your inspection: You're a Scientology noob.
You've wandered into a room full of people who have considerably more Scientology auditing and training experience than you do.
Do you think this many "OTs" could be wrong?
TG1
2briancox
Patron
Then I dammit well be ready to make sure you don't act on your beliefs.
2briancox
Patron
I meant to answer that to Lone Star.Three days ago Brian wrote this:
".....And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me".
And I replied the same day with this...
"In your opinion, how does someone seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon?
This is a sincere question. I'm not going to invalidate whatever your answer is. I truly want to know. If you are hesitant to answer in the open then feel free to PM me".
He has posted quite a bit over the past three days, but he hasn't answered the question. No Scientologist has ever answered this question that I know of, whether an active CoSer, Freezoner, or Independent. That's because there is no "Clear phenomenon" and there is certainly no "OT phenomenon". So why do they still at times suggest that there is when even they know it's BS? I have to assume Brian knows it's BS because he won't answer.
Delusional. Just plain delusional.
Carry on....
There are both phenomenon. Just not to the extent or consistency that Ron advertised.
I've experienced OT phenomenon. I can't turn it on and off. And, as many have expressed, it's not something that is exclusive to Scientology. I've seen that postulates do stick more the more Bridge I do.
There are Clears. I watched a friend become far more at peace with himself and certain in life. He reacted less to life's troubles and seemed to think more clearly as he went up the Bridge to clear. If I can achieve that, it's worth my time because I've decided that.
Whether you decide I am fully reaching the metrics stated by Ron has no importance to me. It's a spiritual journey. That means not all roads look the same or even have the same endpoint.
2briancox
Patron
Brian,
I don't mean this as an "evaluation," but I offer it as a fact for your inspection: You're a Scientology noob.
You've wandered into a room full of people who have considerably more Scientology auditing and training experience than you do.
Do you think this many "OTs" could be wrong?
TG1
Correction: They wandered into my room. This is my post.
Purple Rain
Crusader
Well, beliefs is kind of different from truth, though, isn't it?
Lone Star
Crusader
I don't care about what Ron said. I asked you in regards to your opinion, and I said that I wouldn't invalidate your answer. Over the course of this thread you seemed to be forthright and honest. I really was curious about what you meant by witnessing "Clear and OT phenomenon" in someone else and thought I had a decent chance of getting an answer for a change. You still haven't really answered what OT phenomenon is in your experience. What specifically can't you turn off and on?
Look, it's my experience that practicing Scientologists are very difficult to have a reasonable Communication Cycle with. Rather ironic since Scientology is supposed to make people experts in communicating. So, thanks for this reply. It's enough. I don't want this to go nowhere, which it probably will.
Claire Swazey
Spokeshole, fence sitter
Love and the Tone Scale and other Scn "tech"
I disagree that Hubbard doesn't mention love or compassion. He does mention it in his writings, often very movingly.
That being said, though, he did not practice what he preached. And, IMO, any time there is a cultic structure, it doesn't matter how nice the written words (and drills, word clearing, auditing) are - because cults are usually (maybe always) very messed up places which prey on individual members and on other people.
I always thought that love was interwoven through the tone scale but that Hubbard did not perceive it as its own emotion that would have its own wavelength. I always felt that he thought it was expressed throughout and would be part of and pursuant to emotions which he did quantify. So I have never ever been down with the "there's no love in the tone scale" crowd. I think it's an incorrect view.
But I also believe that those who say that are looking at Hubbard's deeds and treatment of others in the past, the way the cult is now, and contradictory PLs about fair gaming critics, treatment of staff, ex Sea Org members being "DBs", R-45, and so on.
At best, Hubbard was contradictory and irresponsible. At worst, he was extremely cruel to those around him. Not only that, but he set up a structure that would ensure that this cruelty continued. No wonder people think there's no love or compassion in Scn. Because, the only love or compassion in Scn is that which comes from individuals who are being that way despite Hubbard's example.
I just don't think it's correct to say that he never mentioned compassion or anything like that. Yeah, he did, but does it matter? Where was his compassion? Sometimes, maybe, he had a good day and would write something high flown and lovely, but when push came to shove, he was a mean motherfucker.
I disagree that Hubbard doesn't mention love or compassion. He does mention it in his writings, often very movingly.
That being said, though, he did not practice what he preached. And, IMO, any time there is a cultic structure, it doesn't matter how nice the written words (and drills, word clearing, auditing) are - because cults are usually (maybe always) very messed up places which prey on individual members and on other people.
I always thought that love was interwoven through the tone scale but that Hubbard did not perceive it as its own emotion that would have its own wavelength. I always felt that he thought it was expressed throughout and would be part of and pursuant to emotions which he did quantify. So I have never ever been down with the "there's no love in the tone scale" crowd. I think it's an incorrect view.
But I also believe that those who say that are looking at Hubbard's deeds and treatment of others in the past, the way the cult is now, and contradictory PLs about fair gaming critics, treatment of staff, ex Sea Org members being "DBs", R-45, and so on.
At best, Hubbard was contradictory and irresponsible. At worst, he was extremely cruel to those around him. Not only that, but he set up a structure that would ensure that this cruelty continued. No wonder people think there's no love or compassion in Scn. Because, the only love or compassion in Scn is that which comes from individuals who are being that way despite Hubbard's example.
I just don't think it's correct to say that he never mentioned compassion or anything like that. Yeah, he did, but does it matter? Where was his compassion? Sometimes, maybe, he had a good day and would write something high flown and lovely, but when push came to shove, he was a mean motherfucker.
Jquepublic
Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't need to refer to it, I Chineze Schooled and drilled it plenty of times. The problem I have with the Tone Scale is the ranking system itself, the evaluation that one emotion is senior in importance or significance than another or that anything below a certain level is "bank" and thus without merit or validity.
But that has nothing to do with anything, in the end. If Brian or anyone else wants to get some auditing and listen to some lectures as their way of finding meaning in life, I don't care. But if a bunch of people want to form a group and follow and enforce every single word ever written or spoken by Hubbard, then I very much care.