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For the Rathbun "Believers"

dontscamme said:
One man's postulate is another man's wishful thinking.

LRH loved to assume things without proof, and of course he wanted his followers to believe his writings had even more precision and validity than any form of mathematics or logic.

Referencing the origin of the word below, the idea of demanding things from others no doubt appealed to him as well.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/postulate?db=dictionary
Click to expand...



Quote.

pos⋅tu⋅late /v. ˈpɒstʃəˌleɪt; n. ˈpɒstʃəlɪt, -ˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. pos-chuh-leyt; n. pos-chuh-lit, -leyt] Show IPA verb, -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing, noun

–verb (used with object) 1. to ask, demand, or claim.
2. to claim or assume the existence or truth of, esp. as a basis for reasoning or arguing.
3. to assume without proof, or as self-evident; take for granted.
4. Mathematics, Logic. to assume as a postulate.

–noun 5. something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning.
6. Mathematics, Logic. a proposition that requires no proof, being self-evident, or that is for a specific purpose assumed true, and that is used in the proof of other propositions; axiom.
7. a fundamental principle.
8. a necessary condition; prerequisite.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1525–35; < L postulātum petition, thing requested, n. use of neut. of ptp. of postulāre to request, demand, akin to pōscere to request

Related forms:

pos⋅tu⋅la⋅tion, noun
pos⋅tu⋅la⋅tion⋅al, adjective


Synonyms:
3. hypothecate, presuppose, conjecture. 5. hypothesis, theory; axiom; assumption, conjecture.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © R




That's interesting when the usual scientology cult context is matched with it, i.e. to make a postulate "stick".



Big win:
I can make my conjecture "really stick".
I can make my assumptions "really stick".
I can make my presuppositions "really stick".
I can make my theory "really stick".

Hubtit saw his assumptions, conjecture, presuppostions, as things that are true if they be be made true through sheer will power. From that mindset, postulates do not need proof or experiment to find out what is truth and what is not - just assume or presuppose with unhindered intention; willpower, and so it is true.
 
degraded being said:
Quote.

pos⋅tu⋅late /v. ˈpɒstʃəˌleɪt; n. ˈpɒstʃəlɪt, -ˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. pos-chuh-leyt; n. pos-chuh-lit, -leyt] Show IPA verb, -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing, noun –verb (used with object) 1. to ask, demand, or claim.
2. to claim or assume the existence or truth of, esp. as a basis for reasoning or arguing.
3. to assume without proof, or as self-evident; take for granted.
4. Mathematics, Logic. to assume as a postulate.

–noun 5. something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning.
6. Mathematics, Logic. a proposition that requires no proof, being self-evident, or that is for a specific purpose assumed true, and that is used in the proof of other propositions; axiom.
7. a fundamental principle.
8. a necessary condition; prerequisite.
Origin:
1525–35; < L postulātum petition, thing requested, n. use of neut. of ptp. of postulāre to request, demand, akin to pōscere to request
Related forms:
pos⋅tu⋅la⋅tion, noun
pos⋅tu⋅la⋅tion⋅al, adjective
Synonyms:
3. hypothecate, presuppose, conjecture. 5. hypothesis, theory; axiom; assumption, conjecture.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © R
That's interesting when the usual scientology cult context is matched with it, i.e. to make a postulate "stick".
Big win:
I can make my conjecture "really stick".
I can make my assumptions "really stick".
I can make my presuppositions "really stick".
I can make my theory "really stick".
Hubtit saw his assumptions, conjecture, presuppostions, as things that are true if they be be made true through sheer will power. From that mindset, postulates do not need proof or experiment to find out what is truth and what is not - just assume or presuppose with unhindered intention; willpower, and so it is true.
Click to expand...

That brings up a VERY quirky illogical conundrum that True Believers have to skillfully avoid confronting.

The "tech" presupposes that POSTULATING is a very high level of OT ability. So high that people work entire lifetimes, donate all their worldly belongings and still can't do it. But it is still the test of faith that Scientologists believe that one can POSTULATE something into becoming an instant reality.

Here's the twist.....by scripture, only the most ethical, sec-checked CoS approved Operating Thetans have this ability. Presumably, OT VIIs and OT VIII's are the most adept at POSTULATING. (if not, a total product recall would be in order, wouldn't it?)

By extension, those of lesser spiritual levels and particularly those who are "unethical" or "evil" would not possess such delicately divine powers.

How then, can the POSTULATES of DBs, SPs, Critics, ANONs and other anti-Scn humans be kicking the collective OT butts of the Church of Scn?

How can the POSTULATES of an untrained, unaudited wog in a Guy Fawkes mask possibly vanquish the majestic might of Operating Thetans?

When I stop by a protest, the only "POSTULATING" that I see by OT handlers and OT OSA is an ordinary human being with a camera pathetically taking pictures of their ("evil") enemies.

What then is the definition of POSUTLATE when it comes right down to it? Maybe it is something like:

"....recording pictures which can be later viewed and used in order to (hopefully) resolve something that was not resolvable when it occurred."

That sounds eerily like Ron's explanation of the "survival mechanism" of the Reactive Mind.
 
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HelluvaHoax! said:


That brings up a VERY quirky illogical conundrum that True Believers have to skillfully avoid confronting.

The "tech" presupposes that POSTULATING is a very high level of OT ability. So high that people work entire lifetimes, donate all their worldly belongings and still can't do it. But it is still the test of faith that Scientologists believe that one can POSTULATE something into becoming an instant reality.

Here's the twist.....by scripture, only the most ethical, sec-checked CoS approved Operating Thetans have this ability. Presumably, OT VIIs and OT VIII's are the most adept at POSTULATING. (if not, a total product recall would be in order, wouldn't it?)

By extension, those of lesser spiritual levels and particularly those who are "unethical" or "evil" would not possess such delicately divine powers.

How then, can the POSTULATES of DBs, SPs, Critics, ANONs and other anti-Scn humans be kicking the collective OT butts of the Church of Scn?

How can the POSTULATES of an untrained, unaudited wog in a Guy Fawkes mask possibly vanquish the majestic might of Operating Thetans?

When I stop by a protest, the only "POSTULATING" that I see by OT handlers and OT OSA is an ordinary human being with a camera pathetically taking pictures of their ("evil") enemies.

What then is the definition of POSUTLATE when it comes right down to it? Maybe it is something like:

"....recording pictures which can be later viewed and used in order to (hopefully) resolve something that was not resolvable when it occurred."

That sounds eerily like Ron's explanation of the "survival mechanism" of the Reactive Mind.
Click to expand...




I always thought it funny that if you said something negative that a Scientologist automatically says, "watch what you postulate". WTF, just because you said it means it's a postulate!?:dieslaughing:
 
Iknowtoomuch said:
I always thought it funny that if you said something negative that a Scientologist automatically says, "watch what you postulate". WTF, just because you said it means it's a postulate!?:dieslaughing:
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Perhaps, easily-hypnotized cult members who readily surrender at some subconscious level to WORDS (whether thought, spoken, written, embedded in "engramic commands", R6EW, Implants, Misunderstoods, et al) are appropriately fearful of words...especially anything other than Ron's holy words (aka "source postulates" or "command intention").

It is likely that they are aware of their own delicate susceptibility to post-hypnotic commands (words), requiring the wholesale avoidance of harmful NON-RON words.

Hence, the thought-policing (by CoS and themselves) from the "contra-survival postulates" (i.e. evil purposes expressed in words) of SPs, Anon, Critics, Internet, & Media.

So great is their superstition about words that even a harmless comment by a fellow cult member puts them on high alert. Words, to them are orders that must be unquestionably obeyed. Ron kept up his end of the Faustian bargain quite well, providing hungry nirvana seekers with an endless all-u-can-eat buffet of words.

ILLEGAL COG OF THE DAY: A fallen leaf easily blown in one direction by a gentle breeze is easily and soon blown in a different direction.
 
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dontscamme said:
"Easily hypnotized cult members" will appreciate the following song, which is filled with plenty of RON-RON words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgtsai2aKY&NR=1
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OMG! You have broken the Third Commandment!!!

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

You are damned to the CoS's eternal Hell....where you must "suffer" by continuing to play cool tunes, dancing, grooving, being free, laughing & having fun in your life.
 
Why ?

Mick Wenlock said:
This is directed to those who have posted about how they think Rathbun is going to make some sort of difference to Scientology.

Dream on.

When he was in - when he had the power and authority within the CofS , he did absolutely nothing.

No wait, let me take that back - he did everything DM told him to do.

And when punches and kicks were thrown - where was Rathbun? Cringing in the corner.

When Scientologists and Sea Org Members were being abused - did he stand up and speak for the victims? Did he fight against DM? Did he stop the violence? Nope.

And now he is out and you think this cringing git is going to lead the charge?

Good luck with that.
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Dear Mick,

When I think about you I always have a big smile. A "big gentle bear".

But honestly I don't understand your post. Marty Rathburn does the same as you do ! He has blog and expresses what he thinks and other people join the discussion. Hasn't he the right too it as you do have ? Why do you read at all his blog ? You could leave him alone. Why are you upset about it ?
Why didn't you ask those questions to yourself about your time in the sea-org.
Did you ever confront your wife Nancy about what she did while being the AG of Folo EU ? Her treating of people as a piece of shit ?
Did she ever confess about her doings of those times ?
Once, several years later i confronted I wanted discuss my case with her, she only said: "we burnt all the G.O. files and this all is forgotten " and then she walked away.
But I never forgot it ! And I never was able to find out what the hell those fucking G.O. files contained about me that I was treated like a psychotic as a young boy and Nancy never answered to my petitions, letters, phone calls. Once, even my parents that weren't scientologists drove me 2000 miles to Saxogade to see Nancy. I was there sitting at the reception. She wasn't willing to come out of her office to see me and give me answers, she let me know she'll write to me, what she never did. Why ?
Her treatment of me was so humiliating. It cost me 2 years of my youth. Still I've tears in my eyes when I think about it. Why ?
OK Mike, I had fun working with you ! You weren't a "normal SO Member".
Why ?

"For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others" by Nelson Mandela :clap:
 
loyalofficer88 said:
Dear Mick,

When I think about you I always have a big smile. A "big gentle bear".

But honestly I don't understand your post. Marty Rathburn does the same as you do ! He has blog and expresses what he thinks and other people join the discussion. Hasn't he the right too it as you do have ? Why do you read at all his blog ? You could leave him alone. Why are you upset about it ?
Click to expand...

Thank you for the compliment I appreciate it.

I don't do anything "with" Rathbun. I do not post on his blog and I do not directly harass him about what he has done.

I take exception to the idea that some people have that he represents some sort of exceptional "threat" to DM. I take exception to the fact that someone who wreaked the havoc he did on so many people has somehow grown a pair of balls that he has never had and people think that this person, after decades of helping DM, is now going to successfully turn on him.

Why didn't you ask those questions to yourself about your time in the sea-org.
Did you ever confront your wife Nancy about what she did while being the AG of Folo EU ? Her treating of people as a piece of shit ?
Did she ever confess about her doings of those times ?
Click to expand...

Indeed I did. And yes I did question myself. In fact the first argument Nancy and I had after our marriage was about something very similar to what you describe. I objected to both her and the GO targetting someone who was a cook at FOLO EU. And I told it to her and to the AG EU at the time - Susan Hasselberger.

And yes I did question things - when I was told that Eric Magnusson (then CO Amsterdam) should be declared by the Comm Ev I was about to chair on him I told Guillaume he was wrong and that it was comm ev first, recommendations next. And after all the facts we could find were laid out - it was obvious that Magnusson shouldn't even be being comm eved. And I published exactly that.

Once, several years later i confronted I wanted discuss my case with her, she only said: "we burnt all the G.O. files and this all is forgotten " and then she walked away.
But I never forgot it ! And I never was able to find out what the hell those fucking G.O. files contained about me that I was treated like a psychotic as a young boy and Nancy never answered to my petitions, letters, phone calls. Once, even my parents that weren't scientologists drove me 2000 miles to Saxogade to see Nancy. I was there sitting at the reception. She wasn't willing to come out of her office to see me and give me answers, she let me know she'll write to me, what she never did. Why ?
Click to expand...

Don't know - I do know that GO people were instructed NOT to talk to people who were petitioning. But that didn't make much sense to me then and doesn't now either.

Her treatment of me was so humiliating. It cost me 2 years of my youth. Still I've tears in my eyes when I think about it. Why ?
Click to expand...

And this all has to do with Marty - what?

I do sympathize with you and if you wish you can certainly PM me with your email addy and I will pass it on to Nancy to answer if she wishes.

But neither my wife nor I are at all interested in trying to get people to take services from us, I am not trying to oust DM so I can set things to rights. I am just getting on with the rest of my life and hoping i can talk with friends and make nasty comments about people who are trying to keep that zombie of a church going. I am not trying to make money out of people who were abused by the very thing I helped create.

You may want to take that into consideration when talking about Rathbun.


OK Mike, I had fun working with you ! You weren't a "normal SO Member".
Why ?
Click to expand...

If I was different (and again I thank you for the good words) it may be because I wasn't afraid of losing it all, I think.
 
loyalofficer88 said:
Dear Mick,

When I think about you I always have a big smile. A "big gentle bear".

But honestly I don't understand your post. Marty Rathburn does the same as you do ! He has blog and expresses what he thinks and other people join the discussion. Hasn't he the right too it as you do have ? Why do you read at all his blog ? You could leave him alone. Why are you upset about it ?
Why didn't you ask those questions to yourself about your time in the sea-org.
<snip>
OK Mike, I had fun working with you ! You weren't a "normal SO Member".
Why ?

"For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others" by Nelson Mandela :clap:
Click to expand...
I think that I understand your angst loyalofficer, but I don't think Mick nor anyone is sitting in 'judgement' of what any of us may have done back then, except when in relation to what we are doing now it can and/or does have relevance. It's not about what anyone did, I don't think.

It is however, very much about what people are doing now, and their track record does have something to do with that.

Whether a Scientologist or not, it is my belief that if one can do so much harm, and then not admit/acknowledge that harm, nor attempt to make up the damage in ways that are "comparable" for damage done, then I wouldn't trust that person to not do the same in the future.

When it comes to Marty, there are huge omissions, and I for one wouldn't particularly give a rat's ass about them, except for the facts regarding what he is doing now. To me, he is moving on, and moving forward, without confronting or reconciling that of the past. It seems to have all been shoved under the carpet, and it also seems that way too many are happy to have him do so.

There's a difference between giving lip service, and coughing up all one knows in an effort to clean the slate and make things right.

There's also a difference between burying it due to not being able to confront it all, and covering it up to suit one's own agenda.

So much has been said on all this, and Marty's blog is very "telling". I don't know what else to say.

I'm sorry to hear that you are still feeling so much hurt and angst through your experience in the CofS, I am - A magic wand would come in handy for many, and I wish that I had one.

It's the "scientology package" which is to blame for all of this, and those who forwarded it. I'm not interested in "blaming" anybody over what they have done in the past though, and I don't think there are many who are. I also have no problem with people applying the scn red on white. However, I'm sure as hell anti the persistence of that "package" and the actions of anybody who is "protecting" or "forwarding" it's persistence, just like Marty is seemingly doing today - Marty is one of the few who knows the truth and the scam and the abuses which are inherent with the CofS......Given what he hasn't divulged to date and given his current course of action, ya could hardly be impressed.
 
Answers from MIK and Carmel

Dear Mik,

Thank you so much for your straight forward answer. I needed some days to think it over, but now I'm just laughing, laughing and laughing about it ! I took it so serious for 30 years, those incidents and in fact it was just a big idiocy. Unbelievable !
First the G.O. creates a problem about me (their phantasy), then I write a petition to LRH, he writes back I should write it to Jane Kember, who never answered it and let me alone with my worries ! Then the Sea-Org tells me I should write a petition to your Wife in her function as AG FOLO EU,she promises me to answer it, I never get an answer.......Sorry I'm lying on the floor laughing ..........and 30 years later i finally get the answer to it, it was just a Joke "we never answer to petitions" !.........ROFL.........would I have kown that datum.........rofl...........at this time..... I wouldn't have worried anymore but just go on with my life.... I reallly took it very serious.....The G.O. creates a problem for me but just for fun.....They took it also very serious........ROFL....
who was the greatest idiot in that play ?...do you mean it serious with your answer !!!!! ROFL.......Thanks mate for your funny answer. You always were very funny ! ROFL....

Dear Carmel,

Thank you a lot for your good words. Unfortunately, you seem to have more data about Marty, I don't..I only can judge him by his writing.
 
2009 Meeting between Rathbun & Hubbard

There is reality and there is fantasy.

Isn't Rathbun selling others and himself on the fantasy that he and Ron are somehow cosmic buddies.

This is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen.

Rathbun pretends to "save Ron's tech".

If Ron is "mankind's greatest friend" then Rathbun certainly is "Ron's greatest friend" according to his positioning.

But, what if Ron walked back in today? What would really happen?

Hubbard would boot COB's angry little butt over to the side and show how it is really done!

Rathbun would be a threat to Hubbard just as Mayo and others before him. Even though it would be a tactical and strategic blunder, Hubbard would declare all-out war on Rathbun so he could have a "head on a pike" to show the rest of the church's congregation.

The most fascinating part of all this is Marty Rathbun himself. What would his reaction be to having Ron, the Father/Son & Holy Ghost, Fair Game him???

This would be tragedy of Shakespearean proportion.

I mean, what would his Blog say the next day when some of his stationery went missing and a SWAT Team crashed thru the door screaming at him to tell them where the bomb-making materials were?

Of all the deception that Rathbun has and does engage in, this is the tsunami of sophistry. L. Ron Hubbard would hate Rathbun and swear a terrorist Fatwa against him. The guy that Rathbun so lovingly "flows power to" would throw him to a pack of wild hyenas to be torn to bloody shreds.

Marty ain't no friend of L. Ron Hubbard. But does he know that?
 
HelluvaHoax! said:
But, what if Ron walked back in today? What would really happen?

Hubbard would boot COB's angry little butt over to the side and show how it is really done!

Rathbun would be a threat to Hubbard just as Mayo and others before him. Even though it would be a tactical and strategic blunder, Hubbard would declare all-out war on Rathbun so he could have a "head on a pike" to show the rest of the church's congregation.

...

Of all the deception that Rathbun has and does engage in, this is the tsunami of sophistry. L. Ron Hubbard would hate Rathbun and swear a terrorist Fatwa against him. The guy that Rathbun so lovingly "flows power to" would throw him to a pack of wild hyenas to be torn to bloody shreds.

Marty ain't no friend of L. Ron Hubbard. But does he know that?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is very fortunate for Marty that LRH's affirmation of living to the age of 200 did not come to pass.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=311301&postcount=83

The Self-Affirmations of L. Ron Hubbard

You will live to be 200 years old,
both because you are calm
and because of modern discoveries
to be made in your lifetime.
Click to expand...
 
Of course we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but the assumption would be that LRH's death was faked, he has been in hiding ever since, and he finally returns to take back the reigns and take out his anger on his enemies, which, as HH said, would surely include Marty Rathbun.
 
Voltaire's Child said:
The benefit of the doubt as to his sincerity in what he is doing and saying now.
Click to expand...

So what if he's "sincere". Is "sincerity" some must-be-obeyed command? If course not. Hitler was damn sincere. Lips Hubbards had trouble in that area, but then he was a darkside shadow being.

Sincerely lying can be learned at an early age.
 
Originally posted by Dontscamme;314857]
Yes, it is very fortunate for Marty that LRH's affirmation of living to the age of 200 did not come to pass.
Click to expand...
The Self-Affirmations of L. Ron Hubbard:
You will live to be 200 years old,
both because you are calm
and because of modern discoveries
to be made in your lifetime.
Click to expand...

Many personal friends and my ex-wife worked personally for Hubbard who attest that he was, in fact, very "calm".

Yes, I went to the Qual library and looked it up. The Hubbard Standard Dictionary confirms it:

calm  [kahm; older kam; kahlm] adjective, -er, -est.
1. without rough motion; still or nearly still: a calm sea.
2. not windy or stormy: a calm day.
3. free from excitement, agitation or passion; serene, tranquil: a calm face: a calm manner.
4. screaming, vengeful, cruel, raging, vindictive, hateful, nasty,hostile, sadistic: a calm spiritual guru.
 
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