greetings

[lotus]

PS : Phenomanon is a lady for whom I've had had great respect & admiration. From time to time, I see things differently than she does. I tend to think in " different " rather than " right & wrong ". I trust I can not always agree with her - & still have respect & admiration for her although some things we see differently.

I have a soft spot for gentlemen (old fahion Lotus) :wink2:
What I appreciate (reading) the most in discussions and arguements (when addressing to eachother) is when people remain gentle, to eachother despite opposite and retain their mutual admiration! If there was more of it in this world...I would be more gentle and patient...
Seriously.. I often learn more on how to debate than from the topic discussed...

I am willing to let people have 'wins' whenever and however they can find them. That's why I am even replying to your posts.

This defines well the person you are - ''let people have what they want''
$cn calls it ''grant beingness'' I think it's an appropriate wording.

 

[Gib]

Sending your attention back to another time is "moving to".
What do you object to about "subjective "wins? :confused2:
My personal 'wins' are my own. I need not prove a goddamned thing to you. Neither does Terrill, or anyone else. My "objective" wins are clearly visible. I am 86 years old in February, and I am in excellent health. I have a 4000 sq ft log home that is paid for, as well as other homes and investments. I have a Husband to whom I've been married for 36 years. I do not necessarily attribute any of this to Scn, but since I was 'in it' for 33 years, it would be impossible to say that it 'didn't work' or 'didn't help me'. was neever "at effect" of LRH, nor of Dn/Scn. Not every Scnist was overwhelmed by it. Many were. Many more were not.
The fact that I came on the Internet in 1993 and began screaming about Scn abuses, and have been an active and noisy critic, does not mean that there is nothing good about the Processes that have been developed.
I look at the whole of LRH's works as an on-going Science Fiction story. The progression of the Technology is brilliant, and of course I know that many people were involved in discovering these processes, nevertheless it has been a life adventure for me. Fortunately, I had other interests that took the majority of my attention. I have my own games. Scn is LRH's game. If one doesn't have Games of his own, he can get sucked into LRH's game easily. ( It sounds SO GOOD!) Losing my Daughter to their belief system doesn't make me like them, but neither can I say that it is all bad and all black and nothing good ever comes out of it.
I am willing to let people have 'wins' whenever and however they can find them. That's why I am even replying to your posts.

I think the "progression of the technology" is but one pile of bullshit, or hubbards use of rhetoric and literary devices to get people involved and trapped to continue. Afterall the old man left and said he wasn't coming back. LOL

Past lives, creative processing, be 3 feet back of your head, go exterior with full perception, OMG, what a waste of time and life and effort. Afterall, what is one achieving but eternity. LOL

So what if one can go exterior from the body? What does it do for one? I know the answer, people "mock up" in their their minds they can now do lots of things or solve things in their lives. But does one ever solve the mystery of life and death that LRH supposedly solved? NO

There is a series of stories provided on a major network, I forget which, but tells of stories of people that have lived to 100 years. And this is SP TV news show, oh how Ron said the news media was about entheta. LOL

Even Marty promotes on his blog recommended reading list of books about a fellow who lived a long life

https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/recommended-reading/

LIFE IS SO GOOD by George Dawson and Richard Glaubman

I haven't read it, but it sounds like a good read and has nothing to do with dianetics or scientology.

Ron sure could tell tall stories.

 

[Wilbur]

I have a soft spot for gentlemen (old fahion Lotus) :wink2:
What I appreciate (reading) the most in discussions and arguements (when addressing to eachother) is when people remain gentle, to eachother despite opposite and retain their mutual admiration! If there was more of it in this world...I would be more gentle and patient...
Seriously.. I often learn more on how to debate than from the topic discussed...




This defines well the person you are - ''let people have what they want''
$cn calls it ''grant beingness'' I think it's an appropriate wording.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I find debates to be a real turn-off sometimes. The ability to win a debate seems to have a very low correlation with being "right", in my opinion. It has more to do with being good at making nothing of another's argument, which is not necessarily the same thing as getting at the truth. I sometimes watch Christopher Hitchens debates on Youtube. He is very entertaining, and was a consummate debater, but I disagreed with a lot of what he actually said, thought he was a prick, and noticed that he often said things that seemed to be untrue, but said them with such confidence, and with such rhetorical skill, that it would be difficult for anyone to question them in debate, and win.

Listening to arrogant pricks like that win debates has put me right off bothering to discuss anything really important with people. I was always interested in the actual truth, and never much interested in "winning arguments". But I find the world is full of people who are interested in "being right", at any cost. The truth doesn't matter to them. What matters is being right. When I discover that a person is like that, I rapidly lose interest in them. Yes, that's one thing I liked about Scientology and Scientologists - there were a lot of them who didn't constantly try to make you wrong, but would simply grant beingness. When someone says something to me that I don't agree with, I don't necessarily feel compelled to correct them. Sometimes, just hearing what they say and 'granting beingness' is what is needed. Oops, this is beginning to sound like a rant. But it is one of my pet peeves....

W.

 

[phenomanon]

I did have a fair amount of tech training. That, in & of itself proves nothing of the " validity " of the tech.
Was I once an auditor ? Yes.
Back then did I believe in what I was doing ? Yes.

However after leaving the cult ( basically at the time because the policies they demanded I live by & uphold they blithely ignored the same application to their own organization ).

I think it possible to learn - even after one is deeply ingrained in something like a high demand cult.

Not all things I once did, or believed in are necessarily " truths" .

Look, if scientology really worked - wouldn't there be lines around the block at every org trying to get in & get the gains stated on each level of the " bridge " ?

That isn't happening, is it ? Scientology is well down the road to " FAIL ".

As for subjective wins, of course one can not really question a person "feels " this that or the other - and they can damn sure attribute it to whatever they please... be it God, hubbard hisself, a fireplug, prayer, the devil, clouds changing direction or whatever they choose to attribute to their own in unacknowledged power.

That I - or anyone - say my toothache ( or anything else ) was "cured" or " handled" by prayer make it true ? Well, at least "true" for anyone but me ?

I happen to believe each of us comes to view anything through the filter of everything that has happened to us before that particular moment when we are viewing. Doesn't that mean none of us really see exactly the same thing..... ever ?

I know people who - right now - are in scientology & having what they feel is a successful life - with more ups & downs than they are willing to admit, but they are doing pretty damn good overall. ( OT & L's )

I also know people who in scientology that a shit storm follows them through life - rarely a good day. ( OT7 )

And damn if I don't know people who have never heard of scientology that are also doing pretty good by any estimate & and also some who the storm clouds follow.

My Christian friends attribute all to God. My atheist friends attribute it all to good luck. My Mormon friends . . . . . and so on down the road.

My point being that some attribute all to some guru or another & some ( I believe to be more correct ) are willing to accept they are the dominate factor in their own life & creations.

PS : Phenomanon is a lady for whom I've had had great respect & admiration. From time to time, I see things differently than she does. I tend to think in " different " rather than " right & wrong ". I trust I can not always agree with her - & still have respect & admiration for her although some things we see differently.

I too have had a long happy marriage & can't complain with my lot in life

I'm sure glad that life is sweet for you.
I didn't get ridged up over your post. (O gee. I said "ridged up") lol. In other words, I think that Abreaction, and/or Regression Therapy is just fine Those, stirred in with some wordsmithing, is what Dianetics is..
I thought he had his OT Wins enclosed in quotes, so I thought it was sarcasm.
Actually, I don't believe in "past lives" either. Nor in "future lives". Because I don't see time as Linear. I see scenes as pictures like bubbles, all Now.

 

[Gizmo]

I'm sure glad that life is sweet for you.
I didn't get ridged up over your post. (O gee. I said "ridged up") lol. In other words, I think that Abreaction, and/or Regression Therapy is just fine Those, stirred in with some wordsmithing, is what Dianetics is..
I thought he had his OT Wins enclosed in quotes, so I thought it was sarcasm.
Actually, I don't believe in "past lives" either. Nor in "future lives". Because I don't see time as Linear. I see scenes as pictures like bubbles, all Now.

We do seem to agree on so much - just sometimes use different words to express it.

The very best to you & yours !

 

[phenomanon]

We do seem to agree on so much - just sometimes use different words to express it.

The very best to you & yours !

You know, I'm just rilly old and not too good at expressing my thoughts. Coupled with that is the inability to type. I get impatient and blurt things out when I should just keep my shit to myself.
This " cognitive dissonance", for example, escapes me. I see no reason that a person cannot hold 2 points of view at the same time. I sure do. It's not to do with "good" or "bad" thinking. It is seeing both sides ( or more) of given situation.
I look at it like this: I was "in" for 33 years. I have been "out" for the same amount of time. I feel like I am off that fucking GPM called scientology. If people want to do it, fine. If they don't want to do it, Fine. I just think that the public should be aware of what they are getting into. It might be possible, then, for them to do a Com Course without all the BS that goes with it. ( the Regging, make wrong, PTS handling, etc etc.) My Grandson, who just turned 18, badly needs a Communication Course, but I would fight him before I would agree to his even opening the door to COS. That's bc of the ABUSE, not the belief system.I don't consider the "hype" of COS promo to be the belief system, or what one may or may not experience, but I do believe that there is insight to be had if one follows the Lower Bridge. The person's attention is directed to various areas of his life where he might want improvement. That's what it's all about, in my view. Has nothing to do with Eternity, or any other of their BS about what is to be gained. Another thing is where the guy starts from. If he is shy and afraid of people, he might have more "wins" on ARC Straightwire than A person who is out-going and confident in the first place. There. I've written a bunch of irrelevant evalustion. But it is my evaluation of the tech. More blurting when I should dummy up. LOL.

 

[Gizmo]

There are so many many helpful things that are not so damn toxic - like reading the I Ching or listening to Ester Hicks & Abraham.

Gee, Hay House has so very many books, CDs, & DVDs in the self help category & NONE want your whole life in exchange to learn a little that might help one.

And I've come across so many people in so many walks of life that communicate extremely well & have never heard of the cult of scientology.

One can learn to communicate without having to be subjected to - if not enslaved & engulfed by - that sick toxic soul raping called the cult scientology.

 

[strativarius]

<snip>
Actually, I don't believe in "past lives" either. Nor in "future lives". Because I don't see time as Linear. I see scenes as pictures like bubbles, all Now.

Fascinating!

 

[Gizmo]

Fascinating!

And as she says, most fascinating, . . . . . turns out to be so true . . . . . . there is now . . . . now . . . . now - there is nothing but now.

If one accepts one gets what one puts ones attention on & then that is what they attract to themselves it would seem that the choice between things of great beauty & awfulness it is fairly easy to choose what one might ought to think about. Make sense ?

Ah, isn't the way I feel in this very moment the story of my life ? Perhaps there a better delineation of " now " ?