I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

[Voltaire's Child]

Pip, I am a Christian but I left Scientology many years ago, in 1973. This was before the really bad abuses and RPFing and all.

I do not understand how you could be a Christian and aware of these abuses and still call yourself a Scientologist. Or even be in any agreement with the policies or tech of the CO$.

Love & Light,
Pat

He mentions a comm ev plus he's been posting here. Could he be an Indie or FZer?

 

[Pip]

Man, you ARE a well-trained Scientologist!

How so?

You make sense of what is actually largely nonsense.

I live in the Bible Belt, and I hear these Bible-Bots routinely spew out, "the Bible says . . . . ". They are insane with THAT just as were/are Hubbard and Scientologists with the similar - "if it isn't written it isn't true" - "what does Ron say?" - "what is the reference"? Well, I hate to blow your bubble but there is MUCH "that is written", that is NOT TRUE!

This sort of attitude reminds me of the pictures of Hasidic Jews combing through various religious volumes, studying WORDS and SIGNIFICANCE for YEARS. Read, read, read, and take "what it says".

"This reference says this", and "that reference says that". And, for the most part, the words and IDEAS therein connect up to almost NOTHING outside of your overactive imagination! Such is the nature of excessive "thinkingness" (something participation with Scientology exagerrates).

Such is the sorry state of a fair majority of Earth humans.

Scientologists, and some over-the-top Christians, more often than not, exist largely within their own self-created imaginations (imaginations fueled of course by the spoken and written words of some all-knowing "authority").

Well thank you for that. I hate to admit it but I love the tech. I get quite high on it. It is not largely nonsense, it is all non-sense, its the idea that anything could be created out of nothing that is nonsense.

You say there is MUCH "that is written" that is NOT TRUE. Well I hate to pull a Scientologese on you, but that is a generality. I personally believe the Bible is "without error from cover to cover". If you believe otherwise, give me the specifics.

I couldn't agree more with your evalluation of some Scientologists and some Christians, and it is an area that taxes my ability to be Pan Determined, but hay! that is what makes life fun!.

 

[Pip]

Funnily enough, I can see how being a "Christian Scientologist" might work for someone.

You'd just need to have your own interpretation of Christianity and couple that with your own interpretation of Scientology and there you'd have it!

I think that's exactly how it might work for Pip but, of course, I could be wrong. :confused2:

PS: It'd never work within the rigid framework of the CofS but, fortunately, Pip isn't in the CofS.

Thanks Panda Termint -you got it in one.

Good pseudonym!

 

[AngeloV]

Well thank you for that. I hate to admit it but I love the tech. I get quite high on it. It is not largely nonsense, it is all non-sense, its the idea that anything could be created out of nothing that is nonsense.

You say there is MUCH "that is written" that is NOT TRUE. Well I hate to pull a Scientologese on you, but that is a generality. I personally believe the Bible is "without error from cover to cover". If you believe otherwise, give me the specifics.

I couldn't agree more with your evalluation of some Scientologists and some Christians, and it is an area that taxes my ability to be Pan Determined, but hay! that is what makes life fun!.

The noah's ark story is a complete fabrication. If you think two of every mammal on earth could fit in a boat you have been thoroughly brainwashed.

 

[guanoloco]

I have decided to "come out of the closet" since a guy from Canada phoned me as a result of my websites: www.christianscientology.info or www.christianscientology.co.uk I have not updated them for sometime but as a result of getting in com. with him it has encouraged me to persist.

I know some of you have a back-off from God and "all that", but on the basis of the "bigger the ARC the bigger the ARC break" I would rather be honest from the beginning than pretend I am something I am not.

I am "born again" and also "Clear" which I maintain is an unstoppable combination.

Well...just think...if you were a past life "Clear"...strictly speaking that would make you a born again "born again" also "Clear"!

Errr...maybe a Hindu or something, too...just sayin'...

Wouldn't that be cool?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

It may amuse you to note that there was a psychiatrist who was an active Scientologist for many years. His name was Dr. Frank Gerbode. He was also the Palo Alto, CA Mission Holder, and left the Church in 1982 after the Mission Holder's conference. He backed or was helping with Mayo's AAC (Advanced Ability Centers, an Independent Scientology group) venture, and later formed Metapsychology as an applied form of a generic "metapsychology", borrowed from Freud's term of the 19th Century.

Thanks. I was aware of Dr. Gerbode when I wrote that but didn't comment on it because it is one of many Scientology anomalies that are exist for short duration before Scientology scripture is used to defile, degrade and destroy the individual for daring to be different.

A couple interesting notes:

A Piece of Blue Sky: Chapter One - The Founder
«Psychiatrist Frank Gerbode, who practiced Scientology for many years, feels that Hubbard was not schizophrenic, but rather "manic with paranoid tendencies" (which is not a classification of psychosis, but of tendencies towards psychosis). However, Gerbode suggests that the best description is the lay diagnosis "loony." Even if Hubbard was manic with paranoid tendencies, he was still sane in the eyes of the law, and therefore still responsible for his actions.»
Wikipedia: Frank A. Gerbode

Imagine what the life span of a psychiatrist in Scientology would be if they pronounced L. Ron Hubbard "manic with paranoid tendencies" and "loony". LOL

Helena is fined for Barratry
«On May 2, 1994, Helena Kobrin, counsel for the Church of Scientology, was ordered to pay sanctions in the total sum of $17,775 for filing a frivolous complaint in federal court. The case is entitled Religious Technology Center, Inc. v. Frank Gerbode, and is reported in the RICO Business Disputes Guide published by Commerce Clearing House, Inc. The citation is Religious Technology Center, Inc. v. Fran

Well, there's the good-old-Scientology that we know and love, trying to Fair Game people who have "the inalienable right to their own opinions".

 

[Pip]

OK so please reconcile some of the following difficulties if you can:

"I am the way the truth and the light and none come to the father but through me" The article of faith of being saved by faith. PLease explain why any christian would then need to be "clear" or to follow any other savior?

You say you are clear? Presumably then a) you never get sick b) have perfect recall and c) have an off the charts IQ - could you prove any of that?

Please detail your contributions to charity over the last year. "If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

Did you give your possessions away? "Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me."

Where do you stand on the subject of upstats v downstats especially as it regards the poor?


I notice you do not post under your name - are you embarrassed about being a scientologist or a born again christian . I have not met many christians that felt the need to hide themselves when it comes to their faith. Just the opposite.

What protestant denomination do you worship at?

Certainly! At the risk of being thought pedantic, it is "the way the truth and the life". Gandi said "The only thing wrong with Christianity is Christians". They may well be born of the Spirit but will still have reactive minds. Obviously there can only be one Saviour in an ultimate sense, but just because someone is 'saved' does not mean they are clear.

(a) Yes! I was on my boat a few weeks ago and had to fend-off in a hurry and got a pain in my chest. It didn't go away so I went to the local medical walk-in centre and got wisked into hospital. It took me three days to convince them I wasn't having a heart attack. The old group agreement is always out to get you. My Christian Science background isn't conducive to me dwelling on sickness.

(b) I don't have recall, I don't see pictures. Yeh I know I might be a black five, whatever. I like to think I spend my time in the now.

As for (c) the last time I had an IQ test (Personality test) they ran some other test on me to see if I was lying. It seemed the line was along the top. I cannot take any credit for that, its just that I try and think W.W.J.D.

You got me on that one. My family do on occasions accuse me of being stingy. You obviously know your 1 Corinthians Chapter 13.

Perhaps I should get rid of at least some of my possessions, I tend to be a bit of a horder, so I probably fail on that too.

I rather like the saying "give a man a fish and he can live for a day, teach him to fish and he can feed his family from here on out" (or something like that).

I can be "in your face" as well as any other fanatic. I was not aware I was not posting under my own name. Pip is a family nickname. My real name is Graham Westcott Threlfall. I like the name Pip especially with its "Great Expectations"
connotation.

As a Christian I subscribe to perfect love and perfect love casts out fear. That is always my objective.

I currently attend a Unitarian Universalist Church here in Portsmouth, UK. John Pound Memorial Unitarian Church www.johnpoundschurch.org.uk

I was born into a Christian Science family but my father died when I was young and mother in her wisdom decided we were going to be protestant. It was much later I came back to Christian Science but I am currently barred from my local Christian Science church, but I am hoping to get that resoved very soon. Unfortunately they don't do Com.Evs. They think I want to take over their church, can you believe that!

 

[Pip]

Jesus cured lepers.

Scientology killed Lisa Mcpherson.

SP Heretic x8

You don't give up do you ClamSource

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

My latest Com.Ev. SNR HCO UK EO 521-1 22nd July 2003 found me guilty. The first paragraph (A) in the findings says "When asked about his interest in Scientology and his application of the technology of Scientology, Pip stated that he would want to modify some of the references, if he were to apply them, and he therefore did not agree to apply them exactly as written". The findings went on to (I) three pages later. But the day was lost at (A). What I said was that The Bible was now my final authority and that was not about to change. I see the committee were Ian Lazenby, Maggie Blunden, Shaun Machin and Jemima Beaton. If any of them are reading this please feel free to get in touch - my landline is 02392 666650.

Many thanks for this info about your Com Ev.

It is more than fascinating.

If not too personally intrusive, would you mind posting it here? I believe it would serve the cause of human rights admirably to reveal one of those rare times that Scientology actually showed, in writing, how they really think and act--instead of the PR coverup. For example: "We believe that all men have the inalienable right to (believe, think, speak...)."

I think it is important to let others see the truth about Scientology's claim that it is embraces and accepts all religions.

It would be great if you could shine the light of truth on Scientology's attitude towards Christians by posting that Com Ev.

 

[guanoloco]

My latest Com.Ev. SNR HCO UK EO 521-1 22nd July 2003 found me guilty. The first paragraph (A) in the findings says "When asked about his interest in Scientology and his application of the technology of Scientology, Pip stated that he would want to modify some of the references, if he were to apply them, and he therefore did not agree to apply them exactly as written". The findings went on to (I) three pages later. But the day was lost at (A). What I said was that The Bible was now my final authority and that was not about to change. I see the committee were Ian Lazenby, Maggie Blunden, Shaun Machin and Jemima Beaton. If any of them are reading this please feel free to get in touch - my landline is 02392 666650.

Hey, that part up there in bold red...didn't Miscavige say that?

 

[Markus]

Yes, maybe some of you guys could be a bit less confrontational toward Pip. We all have our different paths and just because it's not yours doesn't mean you have to be a dick.

To discuss things on a Message Board is not "confrontational" If I believe that it is not possible to be a Christian AND a Scientologist and I'm telling that to a person who is claiming exactly this - why is this "confrontational" ? What does this person exspect - what is his or her intention for starting this thread?

And in my opinion sometimes it is better to be "confrontational" in life.

Love
Markus

 

[Markus]

The "fact"? And, you know this exactly how? That some fellow "rose from the dead"? Were you there? Did you view this event in the Akashic Record? Did you channel a person who actually saw him rise?

It is a STORY. It is a descriptive drama that fuels the imagination (of some), that may very well have NOTHING to do with ANY "actuality" at all. In the same way that notions like "space opera", "knocking hats off at 50 feet", exteriorization and "doll bodies" excite and fuel the imagination of over-indoctrinated Scientologists. People have a near rabid tendency to believe just about anything that is in writing.

Personally, I think you may have "read too many books", took some of it a bit too seriously, and you might need to get out of you thinkingness for awhile.

Why not ADD to this already strange mix (Christinaity & Scientology)? Try meditating a bit everyday, empty your mind, and stop entertaining all of this SIGNIFICANCE!

And, "love" is impossible within any even slightly "standard application" of Scientology. The subject itself, by the ideas Hubbard codied, CREATES enemies, dissent, antagonism, attacks, and contributes to an endless "games condition" (one thing fighting another thing).

Scientology encourages and promotes doing things to others that you would NOT want done to YOU! Such as lying, sending out noisy investigations, initiating overwhelming lawsuits to silence critics (regardless of the truth), hard sell, crush regging, endless threats, disconnection, ad nauseum.

This is one of the most amazingly wonderful maxims for ANY person to live their life:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (Christian notion)

THAT is NOT possible while existing as a "Scientologist" - unless of course you redefine the term "Scientologist" to mean that you can pick and choose a little here and there, and discard a GREAT DEAL of the endless stupidity created by Hubbard. The Church of Scientology initiates actions EVERY DAY, and has done so since Hubbard began the subject, that NOBODY would want done to them!

But, as Hubbard did accurately point out - a thetan can entertain any significiance - or in other words, a person can have any bundle of ideas (no matter how absurd or contradictory) "make sense". Finding Scientology & Christianity NOT contradictory would involve a HUGE amount of making sense of the absurd.

It seems to me that you are just taking what you learned from Scientology and apply it to your affiliation with Christian ideas - making sense of nonsense. THAT, making sense of nonsense, is one of the KEY "abilities gained" of participation with Scientology.

Personally, as I see it, taking the ONE Christian maxim above, and striving to live ones life by IT, would probably result in much more "spiritual gain" than all the auditing and training levels of Scientology combined.

Great post Gadfly

Love
Markus

 

[Mystic]

Funny how people are "things".

I'm just a ... ah ... er ... hum... a 'me".

 

[Markus]

Man, you ARE a well-trained Scientologist!

How so?

You make sense of what is actually largely nonsense.

I live in the Bible Belt, and I hear these Bible-Bots routinely spew out, "the Bible says . . . . ". They are insane with THAT just as were/are Hubbard and Scientologists with the similar - "if it isn't written it isn't true" - "what does Ron say?" - "what is the reference"? Well, I hate to blow your bubble but there is MUCH "that is written", that is NOT TRUE!

This sort of attitude reminds me of the pictures of Hasidic Jews combing through various religious volumes, studying WORDS and SIGNIFICANCE for YEARS. Read, read, read, and take "what it says".

"This reference says this", and "that reference says that". And, for the most part, the words and IDEAS therein connect up to almost NOTHING outside of your overactive imagination! Such is the nature of excessive "thinkingness" (something participation with Scientology exagerrates).

Such is the sorry state of a fair majority of Earth humans.

Scientologists, and some over-the-top Christians, more often than not, exist largely within their own self-created imaginations (imaginations fueled of course by the spoken and written words of some all-knowing "authority").

Perfect posting Gadfly

and so true

Love
Markus

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Pip, did you ever read this webpage?

http://bible.ca/scientology-what-christians-need-to-know.htm

 

[guanoloco]

So you see I am neither a heretic or an SP, after all the definition of OT is no track.

You ask some quite deep questions. I do have a memory of being present at the crucifixion but I don't easily go there, it is still quite heavily charged, and that may well all be in my imagination, only it runs like a genuine incident.

(b) I don't have recall, I don't see pictures. Yeh I know I might be a black five, whatever. I like to think I spend my time in the now.

Pip, I just had to put those three together. Now, I do realize in the 1st quote you never stated that you were OT.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Jesus cured lepers.

Scientology killed Lisa Mcpherson.

SP Heretic x8

You don't give up do you ClamSource

Why should he give up? - Hmm.. Scientology did kill Lisa McPherson.. Even though she did not have leprosy!

See, instead of curing lepers, L.Ron Hubbard suggested to kill 'em all! -

"A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country."
- L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 171​

And we note that Hubbard made this suggestion at a time when Leprosy was curable!

Well, we're not too surprized that Hubbard boldly suggests genocide.. He recommends the same for people below 2.0 on the 'Tone Scale'.. Also he wouldn't reward downstats, like lepers, by curing them anyway.. Well, maybe if they had a lot of money he'd consider it.

 

[Petey C]

I agree seperately they are indeed cults, but together they make a completion - LOVE and UNDERSTANDING.

Well Pip I'm happy for you that the two make a completion. But in your happiness, it's important to acknowledge that neither religion -- make that NO religion -- has a great track record when it comes to abuses and brutality. There are thousands of examples of Christian brutality throughout history and right up to the present time, with torture and war (middle ages), horrific discrimination (eg against Jews), human trafficking (children sent to the colonies in the 50s and 60s) and child abuse (current). Scientology fares no better, perhaps even worse given its short history and relatively minute membership. You have to ask yourself how these regular abuses come to pass within any religion that professes "love and understanding".

PD

 

[jenni with an eye]

I would join the CofS tomorrow but only as a Christian Scientologist but at present they find that unacceptable.

Me thinks the cofs has once again shown its true colours.

Why anyone (christian or otherwise) would want to be a part of the cofs, the same cofs who continually displays religious intolerance and violates the basic beliefs of the right to freedom of religion, beats me.

Yep, religious intolerance, the cofs are experts at showing the world what that really means.

I am no longer a Scientologist independent or otherwise. I am a Christian and it works for me. I am happier than I have ever been while in the C of $ and with all of the knowledge that I have I can't see how anyone can be a Scientologist and a Christian at the same time as the second post on this thread by Emma points out.

Thank you to everyone at ESMB for all of your viewpoints, advice, and wonderful stories. And thank God for the freedom of religion.

Dean Blair
Ex-Scientologist
Christian

Well said Dean

 

[Moonchild]

"That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist; from the beginning of the human race until the time when Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity."

The above is a quote from St Augustine of Hippo. He seems to be saying that the figure known as Jesus Christ was merely reasserting, in language appropriate to his time and culture, 'ancient wisdom' : give love for hate; respect for others; place emphasis on 'spiritual' rather than 'material' well-being etc...the whole 'Christian Message'.

When you look at how Scientology is presented to 'raw meat' - the bait before the switch - it's not all that hard to read-in certain parallels: the inalienable rights of Man; communication = the ultimate solvent; admiration = the most powerful particle of all and so on. Scn. too aligns itself with not-dissimilar tenets of 'ancient wisdom'.

Arguably and to a certain extent it may once have been possible to maintain allegiance to both camps (allowing a certain modicum of cognitive dissonance) even as far as 'Clear', especially if one were a fee-paying public member not particularly aware of what goes on behind the scenes.

However, in these days of the internet, it would be a remarkable achievement to remain unaware of the dark side, not least of all if one participates on ESMB. The virtuous 'Christian-compatible' veneer of the CoS is rapidly discovered for what it really is - a disingenuous trotting-out of pious cant for the purpose of deceiving the unwary...cloaking the beast in noble robes.

Shouldn't take too long for the penny to drop though.

Christian and Scientologist? Nah, can't see it meself.