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I AM A CHRISTIAN SCIENTOLOGIST

I agree seperately they are indeed cults, but together they make a completion - LOVE and UNDERSTANDING.

Pip, I'm interested in asking you this, what understanding did you get from scientology that you couldn't learn from studying Christianity?

Sorry, that post was a little garbled, done on an teeny tiny cell phone!!! :blush:

But I would really like to know...what did Scientology offer you or did you learn there that you couldn't learn via Christianity? Thanks. :)
 
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Pip, I don't know why but I like you.
I really think you're a good guy. Nuttier than a squirrel's fart on the subject of religion, but a guy I'd like to have next to me in the trenches. So let me ask you a few questions. Not as a challenge. Whatever path you're on is right for you. But just to help me fathom your depth. And you ARE deep.

Firstly, if you're a Scientologist why are you posting on an EX-scientology board? Secondly, if you believe the Bible from cover to cover, and you worship Jesus Christ, doesn't it bother you at all, that he said "for I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--A man's enemies will be the members of his own household" Matthew 10:35-36.

Again in Luke 14:26 he says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes even his own life, he cannot be my disciple". He promoted burning non believers, in John 15:6. He stole livestock, see Luke 19:30-33. He told people to cut off hands, feet and gouge out their eyes. There's more besides.
Just what is it about this egomaniacal bag of fart that you think is holy?

Thank you for that. I am posting on an ex-Scientology board
a) because this board is open to ex-members of the CofS and
b) as a ChristianScientologist I am not as such a Scientologist.

I don't worship Jesus, I worship God through Jesus. Jesus is God's son, as each of us are.

As for the references in Matthew, in Chapter 10 verse 37 he says "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me ...." The point he is making is nothing should come between us, and the road out. He is calling for each of us to make the spiritual life the focus of our lives, the same sort of dedication I had as a Scientolgist but from a spiritual dimension not a soulish one.

The technology of Scientology cannot take you beyond the ego (soul). Ron's big mistake was taking past lives seriously. Of course they exist but in the same way memory exists, in our own universe. Once one tries to get agreement on memory it inverts and becomes a trap. Just as in Dianetics you wouldn't try and evaluate for the PC what is in his memory, so that remains tue in Scientology. Up to Power the PC is on the "itsa line", after that the PC is told what to think.

The entirity of Jesus' teaching is to get ones attention off the things of this world and recognise that there is "another reality" (my kingdom is not of this world). What he is saying is, it is not about this external world that we experience through our senses, its about the internal world of the spirit. (considerations are senior to mechanics).

That's the whole point, Jesus, by the time it came for him to die, had overcome the ego, hence "not my will, but thy will be done" Matthew 26 v39. Jesus Christ is holy because he is 'whole' (same root) he no longer has a split will.
 
I sort of decided if I ever had to pick a religion that I claimed as mine it would be the Unity Churches.

Why? Instead of hymns at their services they sing show tunes .
And I ask you, what is not to love about that?

We are active members of Unity here in England too. I have been invited to say a few words this month. They are alright.
 
Scientology and Primitive Christianity are compatible if one does a literal, fundamentalist reading of the New Testament. For example, the New Testament seeks to protects families except when Jesus decides that your family members are, err, suppressive and that disconnection is needed:


Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message

Jesus actually said this and you can check it out for yourself. However, Christian churches ignore this horrific verse and do not break up families - this although Jesus demanded it. Jesus did not want "well-meaning family members" getting in the way of a person's commitment to him. Christians, however, selectively apply scripture like all other religions. My point here is that many religious movements have brutal scriptures that force believers to separate themselves from non-believers. Scientology is hardly unique in this regard. This does not excuse its SP Doctrine, Disconnection, etc. but it shows that even the major religions do not brook dissent from within and will excommunicate people who do not agree. There have always been religious extremists, especially early in the history of a sect or a cult. This is why such groups have to moderate or become a fringe group that eventually disbands. The Church of Scientology is unique in that it has used religious brutality in uncommon and uncommonly expensive ways; most religions do not pursue outspoken former members or prominent critics and journalists with such pure hatred and an incredibly expensive private intelligence bureau.

Religious history argues that Scientology will continue to schism and that moderates will selectively apply scripture like all other religions. While Matthew 10:34-37 is part of Christianity's "SP Doctrine," while it is still a part of Holy Writ, it has been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity.

However, Christian Scientologist Pip may be forced to embrace Matthew 10:34-37 per the Data Series or whatever it is in CoS scripture that forces people to be insane and violent.


*****
Another example of where Scientology and Primitive Christianity align is in terms of beating people. Jesus said:


ref: Luke 12:46-48 The Amplified Bible.

Again, while still a part of Holy Writ, Luke 12:45-48 has also been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity. However, if the Christian Scientologist Pip needs a scriptural warrant to beat people he can quote this passage from Luke. He can then cite David Miscavige as his Scientology authority. In terms of justifying brutality, then, Pip has the best of both worlds as a Christian Scientologist. In this vein, David Miscavige would do well to become a Christian Scientologist.

*****
Pip, good luck on being a Christian Scientologist.

A few questions for you though: Are you using auditing because Christ's Salvation is inadequate to help you?

If Christ died for your sins, then what is auditing about for you?

Are you trying to audit away your sin nature because the Holy Spirit has somehow failed to impart Christ's nature into you?


/////

Thanks for acknowledging that I am a ChristianScientologist, and for wishing me "good luck". No I am saved but that is only the first step (justification) the next step is to work out one's salvation with 'fear and trembling' (sanctification) Here some sort of councelling can be useful and my preferred choice would be Auditing, but there is something called Theotherapy that I have found useful. Then the final stage is (glorification).

Just because you know you have a loving heavenly father does not necessarily mean you have nothing left to confront.

No my sin nature has been dealt with 'at the cross'. As the saying goes "it took one night to get the Isralites out of Egypt but 40 years to get Egypt out of the Isralites".
 
Pip, on your blog you state (In the "Possible FAQ" section)

"The founder of Scientology, L Ron Hubbard, has said “I developed Scientology because of my love of understanding, and so it is that through Jesus we can understand love, and in Scientology we love understanding".
http://blog.christianscientology.info/

Would you please provide the source of this quote from Hubbard?

(or if anyone else knows the source of this quote, I would appreciate if you could direct me to the source)

Well spotted Type4_PTS - that post has been there for ages and you are the first one to see that our quote markes are in the wrong place!

Of course LRH didn't say all that - should of closed quote after understanding.

Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Scientologists love understanding right up to the point where they understand Scientology is a trap to leech you of all your time and money. Then they blow.


Christians believe miracles happen through God's intervention. Scientologists believe in personal miracles.

SP Heretic x14
 
Pip, I don't know why but I like you.
I really think you're a good guy. Nuttier than a squirrel's fart on the subject of religion, but a guy I'd like to have next to me in the trenches. So let me ask you a few questions. Not as a challenge. Whatever path you're on is right for you. But just to help me fathom your depth. And you ARE deep.

<snip>

I'm with you Clarence.
I'm sure I could convince Pip to take a look over the edge to see if the enemy is still there. Those types are always handy to have around.
LTG
 
I used to know a Moslem Scn'ist.

Like I said, though, Hubbard does not get a pass on this compatibility issue from me. I don't think Scn is all that compatible with certain other ologies and isms. And given Hubbard's disdain for Abrahamic religions, that doesn't look very good for the compatibility thing, either.

But in the end, everyone has their own road and how they want to believe and all that.
 
But in the end, everyone has their own road and how they want to believe and all that.

Always bearing in mind that some people's road will take them into the path of an oncoming bus.

Some beliefs are dangerous to society and to the individual, so they need to be kept on a short leash.
 
Always bearing in mind that some people's road will take them into the path of an oncoming bus.

Some beliefs are dangerous to society and to the individual, so they need to be kept on a short leash.
Well, Jesus was purportedly the Lamb of God. That is the Passover Lamb. Now, this could not be if at the Last Supper, which everyone but John Hagee knows to be a passover seder, all the little 'pitsivelakh' (details) were not observed. One overlooked ritual and BOOM, no passover lamb is he. Okay, We'll waive the point in that painting The Last Supper, there is only one guy with black hair. The rest are Europeans. Maybe they were Peace Corps, or exchange students who never went back home. Moreover the Baptists insist that Jesus never touched alcohol. In that case there is no passover, because without wine there can't be. What do the Baptists think was in the Holy Grail...diet Dr. Pepper? Moving along, all bread had to have been removed from the Upper Room eight days before the seder or bupkes, no lamb. My mother who wasn't even observant, rid the house of bread eight days before passover. I never knew of a jewish housewife who didn't, even the most secular. Well, take a look at the picture. There are gentile DINNER ROLLS on the table!!! Gevalt! Sorry, Pipeleh, the late J.C.'s bid to be the passover lamb...aborted.
 
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Thanks for acknowledging that I am a ChristianScientologist, and for wishing me "good luck". No I am saved but that is only the first step (justification) the next step is to work out one's salvation with 'fear and trembling' (sanctification) Here some sort of councelling can be useful and my preferred choice would be Auditing, but there is something called Theotherapy that I have found useful. Then the final stage is (glorification).


Pip, it is interesting to me that you seem to be imposing a gradient, or Bridge structure, upon Christianity:

Grade 0: Salvation
Grade 1: Justification
Grade 2: Sanctification
Grade 3: Glorification

This overlay seems legalistic to me, but I am not you Pip. You are the one working out your own Salvation. I do not know why you need fear and trembling when the New Testament promises Transformation by Divine Grace.

Christianity is Communion with the actual Triune Divine Being described in the Bible and revealed in the person of Christ. If you enjoy Divine Communion, a relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit is active in you as a result of Salvation, then you are already saved, justified, and sanctified. Glorification happens only in the Resurrection when believers are freed from the body of sin and death and God gives them glorified bodies.

Pip, I wish you the best in your attempt to create a fusion of Christianity and Scientology. You should create a blog and post your notes.

*****
The New Testament is unequivocal that Salvation only comes by Faith and God's Grace. Paul's masterful exposition in Ephesians 2 is quite strikingly translated in contemporary English in The Message version of the Bible. Ephesians 2 makes it quite clear that God is the accomplishing power in the Christian life.


1-6 It wasn't so long ago that you were mired in that old stagnant life of sin. You let the world, which doesn't know the first thing about living, tell you how to live. You filled your lungs with polluted unbelief, and then exhaled disobedience. We all did it, all of us doing what we felt like doing, when we felt like doing it, all of us in the same boat. It's a wonder God didn't lose his temper and do away with the whole lot of us. Instead, immense in mercy and with an incredible love, he embraced us. He took our sin-dead lives and made us alive in Christ. He did all this on his own, with no help from us! Then he picked us up and set us down in highest heaven in company with Jesus, our Messiah.

7-10 Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It's God's gift from start to finish! We don't play the major role. If we did, we'd probably go around bragging that we'd done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing.

11-13 But don't take any of this for granted. It was only yesterday that you outsiders to God's ways had no idea of any of this, didn't know the first thing about the way God works, hadn't the faintest idea of Christ. You knew nothing of that rich history of God's covenants and promises in Israel, hadn't a clue about what God was doing in the world at large. Now because of Christ—dying that death, shedding that blood—you who were once out of it altogether are in on everything.

14-15 The Messiah has made things up between us so that we're now together on this, both non-Jewish outsiders and Jewish insiders. He tore down the wall we used to keep each other at a distance. He repealed the law code that had become so clogged with fine print and footnotes that it hindered more than it helped. Then he started over. Instead of continuing with two groups of people separated by centuries of animosity and suspicion, he created a new kind of human being, a fresh start for everybody.

16-18 Christ brought us together through his death on the cross. The Cross got us to embrace, and that was the end of the hostility. Christ came and preached peace to you outsiders and peace to us insiders. He treated us as equals, and so made us equals. Through him we both share the same Spirit and have equal access to the Father.

19-22 That's plain enough, isn't it? You're no longer wandering exiles. This kingdom of faith is now your home country. You're no longer strangers or outsiders. You belong here, with as much right to the name Christian as anyone. God is building a home. He's using us all—irrespective of how we got here—in what he is building. He used the apostles and prophets for the foundation. Now he's using you, fitting you in brick by brick, stone by stone, with Christ Jesus as the cornerstone that holds all the parts together. We see it taking shape day after day—a holy temple built by God, all of us built into it, a temple in which God is quite at home.

ref: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2&version=MSG

/////
 
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Pip, I don't know why but I like you.
I really think you're a good guy. Nuttier than a squirrel's fart on the subject of religion, but a guy I'd like to have next to me in the trenches. So let me ask you a few questions. Not as a challenge. Whatever path you're on is right for you. But just to help me fathom your depth. And you ARE deep.

Firstly, if you're a Scientologist why are you posting on an EX-scientology board? Secondly, if you believe the Bible from cover to cover, and you worship Jesus Christ, doesn't it bother you at all, that he said "for I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--A man's enemies will be the members of his own household" Matthew 10:35-36.

Again in Luke 14:26 he says "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes even his own life, he cannot be my disciple". He promoted burning non believers, in John 15:6. He stole livestock, see Luke 19:30-33. He told people to cut off hands, feet and gouge out their eyes. There's more besides.
Just what is it about this egomaniacal bag of fart that you think is holy?

This is a great observation...but wait...why stop there? How about the Old Testament and works and/with books of similar teachings...the Tanakh and the Qur'an?

Thought someone, somewhere here on ESMB talked about the closer you get to "the Holy Land" the more like Hell it becomes.

Quite revealing - that.
 
Well, Jesus was purportedly the Lamb of God. That is the Passover Lamb. Now, this could not be if at the Last Supper, which everyone but John Hagee knows to be a passover seder, all the little 'pitsivelakh' (details) were not observed. One overlooked ritual and BOOM, no passover lamb is he. Okay, We'll waive the point in that painting The Last Supper, there is only one guy with black hair. The rest are Europeans. Maybe they were Peace Corps, or exchange students who never went back home. Moreover the Baptists insist that Jesus never touched alcohol. In that case there is no passover, because without wine there can't be. What do the Baptists think was in the Holy Grail...diet Dr. Pepper? Moving along, all bread had to have been removed from the Upper Room eight days before the seder or bupkes, no lamb. My mother who wasn't even observant, rid the house of bread eight days before passover. I never knew of a jewish housewife who didn't, even the most secular. Well, take a look at the picture. There are gentile DINNER ROLLS on the table!!! Gevalt! Sorry, Pipeleh, the late J.C.'s bid to be the passover lamb...aborted.

Thanks Clarence
I'm still hanging on to the fact you like me!:thumbsup:
 
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