I have a new opinion about Freezoners

[Mark A. Baker]

Bullshit. The Church of England is also called the "Anglican Church," but yes, it "understands itself to be both Catholic and Reformed." per this Wikipedia article.

The "Anglican Catholic Church" is some johnny-come-lately that "is a worldwide body of Anglican Christians in the continuing Anglican movement which grew out of the 1977 Congress of St. Louis" according to this Wikipedia article.

Paul

Hardly "bullshit", Paul. The point is the "catholic" appellation is NOT unique to that church which claims to have been founded by Peter & Paul in Rome. It is in fact commonly used within the CoE.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Zinjifar]

*Roman Catholic* is not

Zinj

 

[MichelleAsWell]

thanks!

Usually, if the person is trying to convice another that the good bits and pieces are Scientology, that person is doing a PR handling on behalf of Scientology.

That makes much more sense than my rapidly deteriorating metaphor.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Hardly "bullshit", Paul. The point is the "catholic" appellation is NOT unique to that church which claims to have been founded by Peter & Paul in Rome. It is in fact commonly used within the CoE.

Mark A. Baker

Mark, in my entire life I have never *once* heard the phrase "Anglican Catholic Church" until you used it. All I have ever seen or heard in English newspapers or magazines, TV, and radio is "Church of England" or "Anglican Church."

Yes, I note it exists online. But my experience is as I have stated. Still, feel free to have it your way.

Paul

 

[nexus100]

That makes much more sense than my rapidly deteriorating metaphor.

Metaphors seem to deteriorate faster on ESMB than just about anywhere else.

Probably the water.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The same can be said of your entire education and indeed ALL the experiences of your life. Are we to conclude that your thoughts & opinions are therefore entirely unreliable?


Mark A. Baker

If that was actually true, we would have been extinct as a species long ago, the human race would have been little more than a temporary source of food for the carnivores they happened to run into.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Mark, in my entire life I have never *once* heard the phrase "Anglican Catholic Church" until you used it. All I have ever seen or heard in English newspapers or magazines, TV, and radio is "Church of England" or "Anglican Church."

Yes, I note it exists online. But my experience is as I have stated. Still, feel free to have it your way.

Paul

I have heard it used and seen it referenced on several occasions both by practitioners as well as religious scholars. You may recall that comparative religion has at times been something of a hobby with me.


Mark A. Baker

 

[MichelleAsWell]

Hardly "bullshit", Paul. The point is the "catholic" appellation is NOT unique to that church which claims to have been founded by Peter & Paul in Rome. It is in fact commonly used within the CoE.


Mark A. Baker

After the Protestant Reformation it was unique, and for as many years afterward as Scientology has been existence.
I believe these efforts at reconciliation are pretty recent (relatively speaking).

So what you're saying is that it makes sense to call FreeZoners Scientologists?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

If that was actually true, we would have been extinct as a species long ago, the human race would have been little more than a temporary source of food for the carnivores they happened to run into.

This may surprise you, CNCML, but I completely agree.

The scientific method is utterly invaluable as a tool for the formal collection, collation, and adjudication about measurable phenomena. However, an excessive reliance upon "science" as the only acceptable determinant of all human knowledge is a gross misuse of science. It invariably stems from a failure to understand science, and especially the limits of science.

Consciousness & human understanding are inherently subjective phenomena. They lie outside the capacity of formal physical scientific methodologies to adjudicate.

The most important thing to learn about any subject is the character of its limits.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Dulloldfart]

I have heard it used and seen it referenced on several occasions both by practitioners as well as religious scholars. You may recall that comparative religion has at times been something of a hobby with me.

Mark A. Baker

I accept that. Certainly much more study and interest than mine.

But Google shows me 21,000 of yours and 1.8 million of mine, a 90-1 ratio. That accords with my experience of common (not scholarly) use in England. And I am not going to post any more about it.

Paul

 

[Mark A. Baker]

After the Protestant Reformation it was unique, and for as many years afterward as Scientology has been existence.
I believe these efforts at reconciliation are pretty recent (relatively speaking).

So what you're saying is that it makes sense to call FreeZoners Scientologists?

Freezoners are scientologists. They aren't all in accord as to what that constitutes. There is quite a range of personal opinion on this matter. In the freezone being a "freezoner" is a matter of self-identification.

I consider myself a "liberal freezoner". I have been for nearly 30 years. Routinely, stridently more "conservative" types, often much more recent refugees from the Co$, question my "bonafides". I generally tell them "get stuffed", although USUALLY I use more diplomatic language. Most freezoners play reasonably well with others. A few are pricks.

When a person stops thinking of himself as at least in some degree a scientologist he will have effectively left the "freezone". I've never seen that fail. Many "other practitioners" started as "freezoners" or "independent scientologists" and eventually dropped the use of the appellations, if not ALL of the tech.

None of this is recent, although it tends to seem "brand new" for those only newly questioning or departing from the church.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Zinjifar]

Why would a person *choose* to label himself a Scientologist?

Zinj

 

[uniquemand]

Because they are under the misapprehension that it is a good thing, or a noble thing, to be a scientologist.

 

[Emma]

Because they are under the misapprehension that it is a good thing, or a noble thing, to be a scientologist.

Don't they read the newspapers?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Why would a person *choose* to label himself a Scientologist?

Zinj

Either you can't read, OR you have an EXTREMELY bad memory, Z.

You might want to once again peruse a few of the earlier posts on this thread and others, some of which you have previously commented upon, for the answer to your question.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Don't they read the newspapers?

There are and have been many good and noble people who have and do identify as scientologists.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Zinjifar]

'Stupidity' is still the most concise answer

Zinj

 

[uniquemand]

Don't they read the newspapers?

Emma, come on, you know that newspapers are suppressive. No, Scientologists don't read newspapers! That would mean they could become PTS! You don't think they want a PTS Rundown, do you?

 

[Terril park]

Be careful not to confuse a PR-oriented Zoner, who uses the "good bits and pieces" idea as camouflage to mislead, with someone who sincerely does use the "good bits and pieces."

Usually, if the person is trying to convice another that the good bits and pieces are Scientology, that person is doing a PR handling on behalf of Scientology.

Looks like thats what you are doing.

Carry on.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Actually that's not what I said.

There were quite a few qualifiers on my statement.

I know how you hate to be misrepresented Claire so you'll understand why I'd want to correct you.

I wouldn't want to misrepresent anyone and anytime I've done so, it's been unintentional. I'm always grateful for such corrections, unlike some of our mutual acquaintances who did not take kindly to my speaking up when I was misrepresented.

And, see, you didn't say they all were fucking stupid. And I do apologize for my error.