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I have a new opinion about Freezoners

I find many of you FZ's and Rons Org to be funny. Here you all are practicing "standard tech" out side of $ci. To what end and purpose? The tech doesn't work in $ci, out of $ci or any relation thereof. Flubtard didn't make up his whole shebang to make me, you or any else better. It was for $. Plain and simple. Seriously, if it worked wouldn't we all still be in?
Show me a clear that your circle has produced (what ever a clear really is). How about an OT? Where is the realistic end phenomena of your efforts? Are you all making people better or do you have an addiction to a thought system?
I have nothing personally against any of you. It's this adherence to a failing cults purported science of the soul with its exposed flaws that makes me cringe. Why not scrap the entire effort and start fresh? Start anew at square one and figure out something that does work. That seems logical to me instead of continuing in the footsteps of a money making scheme.

But they don't all practice standard tech. Many of them are quite candid about not being tech purists (my term for it). So they're just doing what anyone else does, taking things that work for them. A lot of them do other things besides Scn, too.
 
think cool green thoughts emma

??? Wasn't it Ems who got pissed off?

agressive action by CoS constitutes being pissed. also there was the gloating and ungentlemanly post by whatshisface. i am concerned for emma getting pissed. we love her and do not wish her the discomfort of being enflamed.
 
I don't believe that "Ex" Scientologist includes in the definition that they/we must hate the technology or that they/we must believe none of it works. Many people here have said that they had gains - referring to themselves. Perhaps you would do better to include the phrase "in my experience" with your pronouncements so that you don't look like you're speaking for all of us.

I'm obviously speaking for myself, asking valid questions, worded in a singular fashion. Instead of answering with verifiable data, you post, "Many people here have said that they had gains", continued with how I should word my posts. Not only vague but condescending. In other words, you have no information regarding what the FZ's and/or the Rons Org people are actually producing and I should add, by whose standards. As a suggestion, you could have posted something along the lines of "I don't know".
 
Competing splinter groups of the Freezone have a dim view of other competing groups of the Freezone.

Here's a page from the Freezone version of Excalibur.

From this picture, the ON SOURCE AUDITOR ASSOCIATION believes it is the only true path to Ron.

drawing4.gif

This was originally on a website run by Mike and Virginia McClaugrey.
This still up somewhere?
 
drawing4.gif




Egads, it's not my picture!

This picture is from Ron's Org, a splinter Freezone group. It's from Excalibur, Ron's Org version.

I posted it because Ron's Org, which is one flavor of Freezone, is insulting all other Freezone groups, as well as the official Church of Scientology.

Which is typical Hubbard behavior. i.e. ONLY WE HAVE THE ONE TRUE WORKABLE TECH AND EVERYONE ELSE IS USELESS SQUIRRELS.

Rons Orgs are definitely not associated with The McClaughreys. They also
attack Rons Orgs. Tom Rhodes, Virginia's son has posted here about
living with her as a mum.
 
But they don't all practice standard tech. Many of them are quite candid about not being tech purists (my term for it). So they're just doing what anyone else does, taking things that work for them. A lot of them do other things besides Scn, too.

That's a candid answer and I appreciate it. My main thrust was for the tech purists, if I might borrow the term. My questions on this thread, post # 271 are what I would like to have answered. But then again, maybe I'm expecting to much.
 
Rons Orgs are definitely not associated with The McClaughreys. They also
attack Rons Orgs. Tom Rhodes, Virginia's son has posted here about
living with her as a mum.

You know something Terril, you just don't learn.

As an ambassador for 'independents' or 'zonies' or anything Scientology, you are either perfect or horrible, depending on the POV. Maybe both.

Zinj
 
That's a candid answer and I appreciate it. My main thrust was for the tech purists, if I might borrow the term.

The problem is there are very few tech "purists" who ever come by this site. I've seen them stop by briefly, but they usually depart permanently after having made a couple of posts. They tend to be uncomfortable on esmb.

It's like hunting wild game. You've got to go where the game is.

Any answers you are likely to draw here on esmb will de facto most likely be from "non-purists".


Mark A. Baker
 
Terril,

The McLaughreys attack damn near everyone. But they WERE Ron's Org. They DID ally themselves with the RO. Their attacking the RO doesn't mean a thing considering they attack anyone who speaks up to them or even crosses their path(s).
 
That's a candid answer and I appreciate it. My main thrust was for the tech purists, if I might borrow the term. My questions on this thread, post # 271 are what I would like to have answered. But then again, maybe I'm expecting to much.

Well, I hope some of them do answer you. I'd try, myself, but I've been so heretical and UN tech purist for so long, I dunno if I could even manage the viewpoint... :)
 
Terril,

The McLaughreys attack damn near everyone. But they WERE Ron's Org. They DID ally themselves with the RO. Their attacking the RO doesn't mean a thing considering they attack anyone who speaks up to them or even crosses their path(s).

They referred to themselves as Rons Org. No one in Rons Org accepted that
after the initial meeting of Max Hauri with the McClaugreys.

After all they referred to themselves as the only 2 or 3 standard tech guys on the planet. With LRH auditing them.
 
They referred to themselves as Rons Org. No one in Rons Org accepted that
after the initial meeting of Max Hauri with the Mcc.

After all they referred to themselves as the only 2 or 3 standard tech guys on the planet. With LRH auditing them.

In May 1986, Capt Bill, founder of Ron's Orgs (the largest FZ group) and author of its upper upper level materials, posted this message from Ron to the poeple of Earth. The message stated that Ron would be returning when enough people had completed OT 17 and 18.

http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob22.htm

When Ron failed to return, and after Captain Bill passed, the McClaughrys decided that they would be the new conduit for Ron's messages.
 
In May 1986, Capt Bill, founder of Ron's Orgs (the largest FZ group) and author of its upper upper level materials, posted this message from Ron to the poeple of Earth. The message stated that Ron would be returning when enough people had completed OT 17 and 18.

http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob22.htm

When Ron failed to return, and after Captain Bill passed, the McClaughrys decided that they would be the new conduit for Ron's messages.

When Prophecy Fails:

When Prophecy Fails is a 1956 classic book in social psychology by Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter about a UFO cult that believes the end of the world is at hand.

Cognitive dissonance

Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance can account for the psychological consequences of disconfirmed expectations. One of the first published cases of dissonance was reported in the book, When Prophecy Fails (Festinger et al. 1956). Festinger and his associates read an interesting item in their local newspaper headlined "Prophecy from planet Clarion call to city: flee that flood." A housewife from Chicago (changed to "Michigan" in the book), given the name "Marian Keech" (real name: Dorothy Martin, later known as Sister Thedra [1]), had mysteriously been given messages in her house in the form of "automatic writing" from alien beings on the planet Clarion. These messages revealed that the world would end in a great flood before dawn on December 21, 1954. Mrs. Keech had previously been involved with L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics movement, and her cult incorporated ideas from what was to become Scientology.[2] The group of believers, headed by Keech, had taken strong behavioral steps to indicate their degree of commitment to the belief. They had left jobs, college, and spouses, and had given away money and possessions to prepare for their departure on the flying saucer, which was to rescue the group of true believers.
Premise of study

Festinger and his colleagues saw this as a case that would lead to the arousal of dissonance when the prophecy failed. Altering the belief would be difficult, as Keech and her group were committed at considerable expense to maintain it. Another option would be to enlist social support for their belief. As Festinger wrote, "If more and more people can be persuaded that the system of belief is correct, then clearly it must after all be correct." In this case, if Keech could add consonant elements by converting others to the basic premise, then the magnitude of her dissonance following disconfirmation would be reduced. Festinger and his colleagues predicted that the inevitable disconfirmation would be followed by an enthusiastic effort at proselytizing to seek social support and lessen the pain of disconfirmation.

<snip>

Conditions

Festinger stated that five conditions must be present, if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

  • A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he behaves.
  • The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
  • The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
  • Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
  • The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselyte or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.
Full article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
Also, perhaps of interest:After The Prophecy

See also this section of Google Books, from Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince, The Stargate Conspiracy, concerning Martin
 
"Festinger and his colleagues saw this as a case that would lead to the arousal of dissonance when the prophecy failed. Altering the belief would be difficult, as Keech and her group were committed at considerable expense to maintain it. Another option would be to enlist social support for their belief. As Festinger wrote, "If more and more people can be persuaded that the system of belief is correct, then clearly it must after all be correct." In this case, if Keech could add consonant elements by converting others to the basic premise, then the magnitude of her dissonance following disconfirmation would be reduced. Festinger and his colleagues predicted that the inevitable disconfirmation would be followed by an enthusiastic effort at proselytizing to seek social support and lessen the pain of disconfirmation.
"

Ha. When [false] goals or purposes fail. When prohecies fail. Probably same-ol', same-ol'. :confused2: Cognitive diss', false reduction thereof. Individual cleer fail. Individual otee fail. Cleer planet fail. Church fail. Freezone fail. Independents fail. Squirrel fail. Sheesh, what do it take? :giggle:
 
I don't know who you know that pushes success stories

But I have not personally run in to them...

as examples, that is not the case with the Cl VIII that did a review and OT setups with me, nor the Cl IX that contacted Dex and offered a free review on Dex when his son passed away, nor the Cl VI that later audited Dex on his OT setups, nor another Cl VIII that I know, nor Dex when he audits someone, etc....

In fact, Dex was auditing someone that has had a lot of auditing and hated being asked for success stories and was relieved that Dex did not. Guess what, later this pc had life-changing wins and later sent originated success stories to Dex out of the blue.

Marina


Freet, honey, they may not be required, but they are urged and even pushed. I've seen it, I've experienced it. I'm sure it's not the case with every FZ auditor but it does happen and I personally don't think that's rare.
 
people can call themselves whatever they wish

How many people that practice religions follow every rule and regulation and are purists?

How many Catholics don't use birth control, don't eat meat on fridays, and only marry other catholics?

Did you know that catholics are not allowed to marry in the church unless the other person converts to catholicism and if they are not married in the church, the parents are considered "not married" and their child is not welcome to attend Catholic school?

How many Jews keep kosher and don't do anything on the sabbath day?

Marina

There's no denying that things have been altered, and not just the occasional piece of punctuation. The point is that if a group ('squirrell' or of the opinion that the current church is "squirrell") is all tech and throw-away-the-admin then the members of that group are not truly "scientologists" any more.

I have seen conflicting versions of the lower OT levels (1 & 2). That still does not change that $cn defines itself as the "only", and therefore people identifying as Scientologists on the outside are, by definition, deluding themselves. To say, "I use bits of scientology as I see fit," does not a Scientologist make.



There is an advantage to "walking a mile in the other man's shoes". You end up a mile away from the nuisance person and you get a new pair of shoes.
 
I've been considering

that a good thread would go something like

what is OT, really....

that would be fun

I would love to spend some time answering such for you, but it will have to be another night. I'm just trying to catch up with what I'd missed in the last couple of days due to other commitments!

Marina

I find many of you FZ's and Rons Org to be funny. Here you all are practicing "standard tech" out side of $ci. To what end and purpose? The tech doesn't work in $ci, out of $ci or any relation thereof. Flubtard didn't make up his whole shebang to make me, you or any else better. It was for $. Plain and simple. Seriously, if it worked wouldn't we all still be in?
Show me a clear that your circle has produced (what ever a clear really is). How about an OT? Where is the realistic end phenomena of your efforts? Are you all making people better or do you have an addiction to a thought system?
I have nothing personally against any of you. It's this adherence to a failing cults purported science of the soul with its exposed flaws that makes me cringe. Why not scrap the entire effort and start fresh? Start anew at square one and figure out something that does work. That seems logical to me instead of continuing in the footsteps of a money making scheme.
 
In May 1986, Capt Bill, founder of Ron's Orgs (the largest FZ group) and author of its upper upper level materials, posted this message from Ron to the poeple of Earth. The message stated that Ron would be returning when enough people had completed OT 17 and 18.

http://www.freezone.org/cbr/sector9/e_sob22.htm

When Ron failed to return, and after Captain Bill passed, the McClaughrys decided that they would be the new conduit for Ron's messages.

Well, I'm OT MMMCLIX, so the rest of you had better pull your fingers out and catch up !!! :p
 
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