I still don't get it with the Ideal Orgs

[RolandRB]

I still don't get it with the Ideal Orgs

What are the staff members and public Scientologists thinking when they part with their money for Ideal Orgs? They must be hoping for some return and yet it is obvious that in the past few years the Ideal Orgs around the world have remained empty - just as their ordinary Orgs have been. If the Ideal Orgs were packed with new public then sure, they could make money (except in France). A lot could be gotten from commission for the sales jobs but I read that this commission is now restricted (does anyone have the details). I can see that if the Ideal Orgs were packed with new public then they could earn a living from their work IF THEY WERE ALLOWED TO KEEP THE INCOME , but they could earn a better living doing other jobs. I read that they are fighting over making contributions to the Ideal Orgs to secure them a job working for the Ideal Org with its potential of making money. But they would earn more by not contributing a penny and getting a decent job. And who do they think they are kidding when they expect these Ideal Orgs to fill up when they haven't in the past few years in spite of efforts to rejuvenate Scientology such as releasing The Basics and GAT and their old Orgs remain mostly empty? And don't they realise that the money they contribute to these Ideal Orgs will just be the start of further contributions they have to make? They are expected to pay for renovations. They are expected to pay for furnishings. They are expected to pay for Scientology equipment. I guess they are expected to pay to send dozens of staff members over to Flag for training for their posts. They are expected to pay the ultity bills while these Orgs remain empty. Then at the end of the day they have *given* their Ideal Org away so they have nothing to show for their money and can not claim it back when it is obvious that none of this is going to work and they become disillusioned. And why should these long time members do all the contributing when the new public (if they ever come in) will not have to contribute to the Ideal Org as it is there already?

And what if they are NOT allowed to keep the income from the new public? You can be sure that this is the case. Flag will demand that all new staff members are fully trained to a high level and all the auditors are fully trained to a high level. The Ideal Orgs will have to pay for that. There will be a turnover of staff and the new staff will need to be trained. They will owe Flag more than their rate of income and will have a large debt to Flag to boot. So if these people who fought over having jobs in their Ideal Orgs by contributing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to their Ideal Org, saw their dream come true and the public flocking into their Org and the Org being full at all times, then in ten years time of serving on staff their pay may still be only $50 per week due to Flag siphoning off all the income for compulsory training and the debt still owed to Flag for the same.

Can they not see that this is out-exchange of the highest order and against policy? Can they not see that the Management of the Church is pressuring its own members into this out-exchange condition so Management is running squirrel policy? How can these people be so stupid as to part with money for something they can all see is not working and will result in further losses and no returns?

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Scientologists are faith based now.

I've now given more than one Scientologist the reference on fundraising and it seems they just ignore originations. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

 

[degraded being]

It's priddy nutty alright. And priddy cultish.
But have a look at some of the newly-outs on Ratty's blog.
Theirah eyes is still spinning with luuuurv fur L. Ron Hubbid. They are soooo smart to haf seen the sauce of evil. Demoneteriahs Misscavioligous!! And they ar the ones
who had the money and gave it to him.
They will tell you how smart they were to figure things out.

I know y' can cipher, Roland. But aint no cipher'n can 'splain the soul-cracked.!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I still don't get it with the Ideal Orgs. What are the staff members and public Scientologists thinking when they part with their money for Ideal Orgs? ------snippety snip------

Why are they spending? What are they thinking?

They are thinking that:

It feels sooooo good to be holy by cleansing themselves of sin and guilt.

That by sacrificing a little dough they may buy their way into heaven.

That purging some of their worldly goods (just enough to satisfy the gods of eternity) is a super-fair deal..........cuz they get to keep most of their cool fun mest now and still get to go totally free in the future when they are too old to have fun with mest anyways.

Think theta-retirement account. Pay into it and it comes back to you later anyways when you retire forever in sunny thetaville.

 

[RolandRB]

Scientologists are faith based now.

I've now given more than one Scientologist the reference on fundraising and it seems they just ignore originations. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

What is the reference on fundraising? I am not aware of it.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

What is the reference on fundraising? I am not aware of it.

HCOPL 24 FEBRUARY 1964 – Urgent - Org Programming

"If the Org slumps: Don't engage in "fund raising" or "selling postcards" or borrowing money.

Just make more income with Scientology.

It's a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.

For Orgs as for pcs "Solve it With Scientology".

Every time I myself have sought to solve finance or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that Org solvency lies in More Scientology, not patented combs or fund raising Barbecues. -- L. Ron Hubbard"

 

[Panda Termint]

What is the reference on fundraising? I am not aware of it.

The Ideal Org fundraising is a squirrel technique pushed on to OT Committee lines. It was pioneered and written up by a couple of US based Public "OTs" and adopted as a successful action by Management.

I remember reading the whole "fundraising hat" write-up which was originally distributed to certain continental OT Committees and later, rather hastily, confiscated and shredded. This was around 8 or 9 years ago and is quite obviously the blueprint behind the current slew of no-exchange donations.

Perhaps some former OTC Chairman still has a copy.

 

[KnightVision]

There are other things at play here.

One of the fundamental reasons that Scientologists stay 'on board' for extended periods is that they are manipulated into accepting that Sci is the only answer to their problems, the one's they actually had as well as the one that Hubbard's tech created for them (which is the majority of their 'believed problems'). A second reason for their continued alliance is that the 'tech' convinced them that 'the tech' is all powerful and can make them too become immensely powerful and able.

Most ex members have since realized that such claims are false, that they had been duped, (manipulated and or brainwashed), into having become so thoroughly convinced that what they were told was true, this despite any real evidence of ability.

The current Scientologist is still under the delusion that such things are true and these abilities will manifest in them in due course; in fact many think that they already have incredible abilities... simply because they believe they do, and the effect upon their psychology feels positive and makes them feel happy... even if it's just a mentally created state of mind.

However, with the advancing phenomena of critics circles, exposes as well as civil and criminal charges coming down on the cult.... the adepts NEED to see some type of 'real results' for their own sake as well as how they feel about themselves in the eyes of the public.

Hence 'Ideal Orgs'. This is one real world evidenced success in the eyes of Scientologists. It doesn't matter that the buildings are mostly empty, nor that there is insufficient income from actual services to pay for these buildings. Actually, since most Scientologists believe the falsely advertised 'unprecedented growth' of the cult... it's easy for them to assume that, even if their org is 'not so hopping'.... that many others are 'very successful indeed'... JUST LOOK AT THE BEAUTIFUL NEW BUILDINGS!

As with so many other out-points and failures in Scientology: For the astute adept to question them, would be tantamount to questioning their belief structure. Doing so would cause their psychologically created mental euphoria to come crashing down. They paid a lot of money and invested a lot of time to have their minds restructured so as to feel 'so happy' and 'invincible' regardless of whether there is anything more to it than believing that it is so...

The 'Ideal Org' keeps the illusion alive.

DM & CO know this very well and have 'brilliantly' orchestrated this manufactured 'evidence'.

 

[RolandRB]

There are other things at play here.

One of the fundamental reasons that Scientologists stay 'on board' for extended periods is that they are manipulated into accepting that Sci is the only answer to their problems, the one's they actually had as well as the one that Hubbard's tech created for them (which is the majority of their 'believed problems'). A second reason for their continued alliance is that the 'tech' convinced them that 'the tech' is all powerful and can make them too become immensely powerful and able.

Most ex members have since realized that such claims are false, that they had been duped, (manipulated and or brainwashed), into having become so thoroughly convinced that what they were told was true, this despite any real evidence of ability.

The current Scientologist is still under the delusion that such things are true and these abilities will manifest in them in due course; in fact many think that they already have incredible abilities... simply because they believe they do, and the effect upon their psychology feels positive and makes them feel happy... even if it's just a mentally created state of mind.

However, with the advancing phenomena of critics circles, exposes as well as civil and criminal charges coming down on the cult.... the adepts NEED to see some type of 'real results' for their own sake as well as how they feel about themselves in the eyes of the public.

Hence 'Ideal Orgs'. This is one real world evidenced success in the eyes of Scientologists. It doesn't matter that the buildings are mostly empty, nor that there is insufficient income from actual services to pay for these buildings. Actually, since most Scientologists believe the falsely advertised 'unprecedented growth' of the cult... it's easy for them to assume that, even if their org is 'not so hopping'.... that many others are 'very successful indeed'... JUST LOOK AT THE BEAUTIFUL NEW BUILDINGS!

As with so many other out-points and failures in Scientology: For the astute adept to question them, would be tantamount to questioning their belief structure. Doing so would cause their psychologically created mental euphoria to come crashing down. They paid a lot of money and invested a lot of time to have their minds restructured so as to feel 'so happy' and 'invincible' regardless of whether there is anything more to it than believing that it is so...

The 'Ideal Org' keeps the illusion alive.

DM & CO know this very well and have 'brilliantly' orchestrated this manufactured 'evidence'.

Where the people are therefore handing over money in this regard I think it's called "fraud".

 

[GoNuclear]

the plot

I still don't get it with the Ideal Orgs

What are the staff members and public Scientologists thinking when they part with their money for Ideal Orgs? They must be hoping for some return and yet it is obvious that in the past few years the Ideal Orgs around the world have remained empty - just as their ordinary Orgs have been.

It's like this ... DM knows what he is doing, his contacts in high places in the shadow govt. have informed him of the soon-to-be massive and very public landings of the Greys as well as the Reptoids. He has known for years.
So the plot goes like this ... 1) use his disinformation agents to spread the oatee III/Xenu story around the web, painting Scientology as a crazy UFO cult 2) have all the ideal orgs empty but good to go ahead of time, just waiting for a massive influx of public 3) after the landings, Cof$ will clearly be the only game in town. After the landing, a crazy UFO cult will be exactly what people will be looking for ... one with established credentials of being a crazy UFO cult.

The current situation in Scientology is PROOF POSITIVE that the landings should occur any day now. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Pete

 

[Spirited]

yep it is definitely fraud.
knightvision covered it pretty well, especially the think that even though their local org is empty they have the false data that others are doing great guns. because they arent allowed to explore the net, they really have no other real data to operate off.
I always struggle with the fact that a lot of these guys accept all that is said by DM and appear to ignore all the glaring outpoints.
Even if they doubt it to themselves they also convince themselves that he must know what he is doing because he has all this data and tech that they dont have access to and they need to trust him and his judgement as a result, so it seems.
Blind freddie can see that its all wrong. But i am with you RB, I dont get it either.

 

[RolandRB]

yep it is definitely fraud.
knightvision covered it pretty well, especially the think that even though their local org is empty they have the false data that others are doing great guns. because they arent allowed to explore the net, they really have no other real data to operate off.
I always struggle with the fact that a lot of these guys accept all that is said by DM and appear to ignore all the glaring outpoints.
Even if they doubt it to themselves they also convince themselves that he must know what he is doing because he has all this data and tech that they dont have access to and they need to trust him and his judgement as a result, so it seems.
Blind freddie can see that its all wrong. But i am with you RB, I dont get it either.

I accept your argument but at the end of the day these people who are handing over money must have to stop and think before handing over the money and if they stop and think then what is wrong with their thinking process? They all know it to be true that GAT and The Basics have not increased their membership, have not got their old Orgs any fuller, that there are lots of Ideal Orgs around but they don't read of any of them bursting at the seams and making the staff money from any of their own internal publications, nor by word of mouth from other Orgs, so surely they can evaluate data to the extent that they will conclude that it is better to keep the money in their pockets. I won't even pay 30 Euros for a stainless steel serving tray without doing some extensive checking. So why do these people hand over tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars when just a little thought will tell them them it is all lose and no gain? I don't get it! I don't - I just don't!

 

[lkwdblds]

Excellent capsule summary of a complex phenomena

Scientologists are faith based now.

I've now given more than one Scientologist the reference on fundraising and it seems they just ignore originations. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

Iknowtoomuch - You have summarized a very complex phenomena in just a few words. Awesome!

Just to add a little more, Roland RB is trying to think logically, "why this?", "why that?", "Can't they see...?" In essence, he is trying to use logic. I learned the hard way that logical thinking and Scientology Management, like oil and water, DO NOT MIX!! Current Scientology Management's thoughts and actions are COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE BOX of what it produced by logical thinking! Logical thinking is considered WOG think and being reasonable.

This was not always so as the LRH fundraising reference you cite and print out above shows. references like these are just totally ignored. When someone tries to implement one of these, they are nailed to the cross similar to what happened to Greg and Debra Barnes.

I find it sort of amusing but very sad that the KSW bulletins are still placed at the front of every pack and people are made to check them out and know them perfectly, then right from the start, if you are doing a GAT course, the KSW bulletins you just studied are totally violated and no one notices. Just take a thing almost no one ever challenges, studying the NOTS Course Pack replacing "old" OT VI and NOTS replacing "old" OT VII, those actions are major, major technical degrades wherein the previous OT VI and VII are being declared tacitly to be old and not in use any longer. One just finishes reading that tech degrades are suppressive and are not to be condoned and then turns to the next page of the OT VI Course Pack encounters technical degrades galore and doesn't notice any outpoint points or if noticed, just feels that senior management knows what they are doing, and just shrugs it off and doesn't apply KSW! How utterly blind can people be and still show some semblance of being sane?!!
Lakey

 

[bts2free]

Scientologists are faith based now.

I've now given more than one Scientologist the reference on fundraising and it seems they just ignore originations. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

Yes. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

For example, I've had a couple of conversations recently with old friends who were in the Sea Org and still consider themselves to be Scientologists despite knowing that LRH lied and was a con man. Why?

Thoughtful, from Scientology-cult.com explains this pretty well in his write-up, "Why are we different?" in reference to Independent Scientologists, but this goes for Scientologists in general as well and explains a lot to their way of thinking. Here's a quote from that which may explain why use of logic is not part of the thinking process for Scientologsists:

"Yet there are plenty of people who are anti-LRH and anti-Scientology technology, too. That is not my bag.

Some people try to invalidate Scientology by attacking its creator. Why? To me, the only thing that makes a subject valid is DOES IT WORK? If it does, I don’t care about what the inventor did, or if he lied about being a nuclear physicist, of if there are questions about his military record. The point of Scientology is not to worship its inventor. He was just a man, with a temper and faults just like the rest of us.

Some people fault the OT levels because the theory is far fetched. Why? I only care does it work. Scientology is NOT a belief system. At no time does anyone have to “believe” the theory. People are only required to read the material and do the processes. The processes deliver the gains. What more can anyone ask for?

I was the Solo I/C FSO for three years. I put hundreds of people through the Wall of Fire (OT III). I know the data conflicts with modern archeological evidence. I don’t care. Why? Because one for one, people got the ability gained of the level which is “Return of Self-Determinism, and Freedom from Overwhelm.”

It works! Last time I checked, not even a Starbucks Vente Mocha Latte with a Triple Twist of Coca Extract will deliver a return of self-determinism and freedom from overwhelm. Who cares what the theory is?

I drive a car. I don’t care about the theory of why it works. Who in history has ever returned their car to the dealership because, “Well, I don’t buy into this theory of internal combustion; you see it conflicts with modern...” or, "I heard the designer claimed he had a degree, but it wasn't a real degree so I want my money back. Here's the car keys."

Does it do what it’s supposed to do? Does it work? To me the rest is pure idiocy. In fact, I can't imagine anything more stupid."

http://www.scientology-cult.com/what-makes-us-different.html

So, per Thoughtful, it really doesn't matter who invented something, or if they have a degree or not, etc. It's all about the "product" and if it works. I can see how that would be alright if you were buying a car or a TV. Who cares, it works right?

Well, IMO, that only goes so far. When you're talking about solutions for the mind or spirituality, would you buy that service or product if the creator was a complete mad man? There's a big difference between cars and the mind. Scientologists, and at least the above writer, don't seem to see that difference. Sure, they might be having "wins," but in the general scheme of things, what are those individual "wins" actually leading to, or adding up to in the long run?

Hubbard went absolutely raving mad at the end of his life, screaming about his overwhelming BT's, paranoia, dying an insane and lonely man, disconnected from the rest of the world, etc...

Sure the car works, but that doesn't mean that that particular car doesn't have major manufacturing flaws.

A friend of mine bought a car that "worked" but it soon had to be returned to the manufacturer on a recall because there were a few cases of that car make blowing up from a major flaw in the ignition/starter.

The use of "Scientology works" as the only reason for buying it does not hold water, because that in iteself is not a logical reason. And this is why a lot of Scientologists allow all of this shit to happen to them and the people around them. They don't use logical reasoning and have lost their ability to put 2 and 2 together. They don't look at SUMS, but only the individual numbers of the sum. If the result makes them feel good, they are fine with it. It doesn't matter how they got it or what was added together to make it that way. "It just works."

Here's a response from Marty Rathbun from a conversation we were having on Facebook. I asked him if he had ever read Hubbard's "Affirmations" or if he knew about any of Hubbard's true history as opposed to the false PR that the Church had been pumping out for years. Here's his reply:

"I've read far more negative information about Hubbard than you can imagine. And I read it twenty years ago. Was always able to differentiate between a person and a product. I'm not going to waste your time or mine trying to convince you of anything - we're grown ups and view the glass as we view it. Good luck."

Throw logic and science out the window.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

The Ideal Org fundraising is a squirrel technique pushed on to OT Committee lines. It was pioneered and written up by a couple of US based Public "OTs" and adopted as a successful action by Management.

I remember reading the whole "fundraising hat" write-up which was originally distributed to certain continental OT Committees and later, rather hastily, confiscated and shredded. This was around 8 or 9 years ago and is quite obviously the blueprint behind the current slew of no-exchange donations.

Perhaps some former OTC Chairman still has a copy.

Well if I may .

The change was engineered with the whole IAS evolution. Miscavige had read books on fundraising - and I do not know who recommended this approach to him but someone did (I suspect the US attornies who were forever trying to get the cofs out of the 'selling" mode") when the IMU was set up carol Titus and I had to read three books on Fund raising - there are some very interesting "laws" about fundraising. And we had to review the NRA set up as a membership organization and the IAS membership was set up the same way.

That fundraising was then extended to the ship and then on to other things.

Legally it is much safer for the CofS - donations to a charity are the way Churches in the US are traditionally supported.

 

[RosyGlass]

Whenever trying to make sense of the nonsensical, or doing the Scientology Sort Out Dance, keep this by your bedside night table. Copy/Pasta'd from Tory Magoo's site:
(Oh, always follow the money too, currently to DM's wallet)


Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a "cult scale" or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.


The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. (Check)

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. (Check)

Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). (Check)

The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry-or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). (Check)

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar-or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). (Check)

The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. (Check)

The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). (Check)

The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). (Check)

The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. (Check)

Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. (Check)

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. (CHECK)

The group is preoccupied with making money. (CHECK)

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. (CHECK)

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. (CHECK)

The most loyal members (the "true believers") feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. (CHECK

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Yes. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.

For example, I've had a couple of conversations recently with old friends who were in the Sea Org and still consider themselves to be Scientologists despite knowing that LRH lied and was a con man. Why?

Thoughtful, from Scientology-cult.com explains this pretty well in his write-up, "Why are we different?" in reference to Independent Scientologists, but this goes for Scientologists in general as well and explains a lot to their way of thinking. Here's a quote from that which may explain why use of logic is not part of the thinking process for Scientologsists:

"Yet there are plenty of people who are anti-LRH and anti-Scientology technology, too. That is not my bag.

Some people try to invalidate Scientology by attacking its creator. Why? To me, the only thing that makes a subject valid is DOES IT WORK? If it does, I don’t care about what the inventor did, or if he lied about being a nuclear physicist, of if there are questions about his military record. The point of Scientology is not to worship its inventor. He was just a man, with a temper and faults just like the rest of us.

Some people fault the OT levels because the theory is far fetched. Why? I only care does it work. Scientology is NOT a belief system. At no time does anyone have to “believe” the theory. People are only required to read the material and do the processes. The processes deliver the gains. What more can anyone ask for?

I was the Solo I/C FSO for three years. I put hundreds of people through the Wall of Fire (OT III). I know the data conflicts with modern archeological evidence. I don’t care. Why? Because one for one, people got the ability gained of the level which is “Return of Self-Determinism, and Freedom from Overwhelm.”

This person writing this presumably has so much self determinism and freedom from overwhelm that he or she feels the need to posty anonymously?

This person was the SOLO i/C!!! Wow!! and he or she got so much resurgence that they are out of the SO and writing on a blog? They could not even manage to hold a lowly org board post like that? Oooh so much for case gain!

That they think this is a gain kind of makes me wonder what the hell they were doing before Scientology.

Here's a response from Marty Rathbun from a conversation we were having on Facebook. I asked him if he had ever read Hubbard's "Affirmations" or if he knew about any of Hubbard's true history as opposed to the false PR that the Church had been pumping out for years. Here's his reply:

"I've read far more negative information about Hubbard than you can imagine. And I read it twenty years ago. Was always able to differentiate between a person and a product. I'm not going to waste your time or mine trying to convince you of anything - we're grown ups and view the glass as we view it. Good luck."

Throw logic and science out the window.

Of course - otherwise Rathbun would have to show how being a cowardly piece of work who supported Miscavige is somehow a "product". All that auditing, given and received and apparently Miscavige didn't even have the self determinism of a dormouse.

He self determinatedly got his ass kicked I presume, self determinatedly allowed DM to rush him out of the SO.


Wow. These people have a real strange idea of "achieveing the end result"

 

[Div6]

Well if I may .

The change was engineered with the whole IAS evolution. Miscavige had read books on fundraising - and I do not know who recommended this approach to him but someone did (I suspect the US attornies who were forever trying to get the cofs out of the 'selling" mode") when the IMU was set up carol Titus and I had to read three books on Fund raising - there are some very interesting "laws" about fundraising. And we had to review the NRA set up as a membership organization and the IAS membership was set up the same way.

That fundraising was then extended to the ship and then on to other things.

Legally it is much safer for the CofS - donations to a charity are the way Churches in the US are traditionally supported.

Yes, but....

It completely short circuits the production\verification\exchange sequence of the org board, and opens the door to less than honest delivery of tech and results. Which then leads to trouble spots in areas, and ultimately the collapse of the entire scn network.

Not to mention that it is the "something for nothing" level of criminal exchange.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Yes, but....

It completely short circuits the production\verification\exchange sequence of the org board, and opens the door to less than honest delivery of tech and results. Which then leads to trouble spots in areas, and ultimately the collapse of the entire scn network.

Not to mention that it is the "something for nothing" level of criminal exchange.

Well the whole sequence is totally bogus - Scientology does not have a "product". While Hubbard was alive he could always release something "new" or invent some new "block" that he now had the answer to and that could keep the marks rolling in the subject.

When he went then Dm, Marty and all the rest were stuck with what they could dredge up. A losing proposition because as more and more people get through the "OT" levels and find that they are about as causative as an amoeba then they gradually start to drop off.

How to keep earning?

Donations.

Scientology ideas, policy and tech just do not work so arguing about whether doing it this way or that way is "out tech" or "off policy" is totally pointless.

 

[Bird]

The reason ideal orgs are so interesting to me have more to do with legal considerations. I notice that these buildings are all owned by ad hoc corporations and not by Buidling Management Services. Why is that so? Given the value of these buildings, this is a pretty major shift in coporporate structure.