Karen de la Carriere YouTube Channel

[Udarnik]

80% of SO at Flag are Russian nationals??? That is WILD! Have to think about that statement a bit.

Leland, treat this information the way a trained intelligence analyst is trained to take in information.

Now, please, don't take this as an attack on Jillian. And Jillian, if you are reading this, this is an example, albeit an extreme one, of how trained wogs analyze data.

OK, here is how an intelligence analyst would look at this.

Look at the source. What is her affiliation and motivation? How does this affect reliability?

A: Firmly Ex-Sea Org, pissed off at DM, blew completely and went to uber-SP Karen #1. However, Hubbard's mind-fuck is long lasting, source may have residual effects. Must evaluate each statement from her on a case-by-case basis.

Do these factors seem to have an impact on this particular piece of data?

A: No, not really. Nothing in this observation really violates any residual mental effects of $CN (if she were talking about psychs, I might be inclined to look harder, but she's talking about observations in the SO).

What is her observational acumen, intelligence, and education?

A: Seems natively intelligent. Was observant enough to try to protect herself from fiberglass hazards. Education unknown, likely Sea Org influenced. Likely moderate to low knowledge of languages and geography outside the US, which is not all that high in non-SO educated Americans to begin with.

What was the source of her information? Is she likely spreading disinformation, or was fed disinformation? Did her observational position give a limited view, or broad view? Is she extrapolating from experience that may be limited, or giving an only direct observations?

A: Source appears to be direct observation. Is Flag so large that she might have been stuck in a unit that happened to be Russian while others are not? I defer to others here, but my working assumption is that Flag is so small she would have a reasonably broad view wherever she was posted. There was no reason to feed her disinformation, as I doubt when she was at Flag people suspected she was going to blow. And there is pretty much no way she is a double agent.

However, is unclear and unlikely she saw the actual passports to make a conclusive ID.

Would she have anything to gain from disinformation?

A: Certain aspects of her story might make her seem more sympathetic if embellished, but this isn't one of those aspects.

Is what she reporting within her field of experience or expertise?

A: This is the tricky one. Probably not. Either in terms of statistics or geography / linguistics. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. We know from Black Rob's thread that many who are assumed by the world at large to be Russian Scientologists are actually from other Eastern European countries. Many Eastern speak Russian as a second language, and it would become a sort of Lingua Franca at Flag if there were a significant number of Eastern Europeans there. Not sure how her stats were gathered.

So, the intelligence analyst in me rates this information as:

High probability that the core message is solid. Details and extent of statistics may be fuzzy. Data needed further on exact nationalities and numbers.

Practical conclusion: Best guesstimate is that Flag is now 60% ± 20% foreign nationals, high probability Eastern European. Probably speak Russian among themselves, though other languages that sound Russian to the untrained ear (e.g. Bulgarian, Ukranian, Byelorussian, Serbian) may be the actual language used. May be Russian ethnics from other countries or using the second language to avoid being spied upon, and these technical non-Russians would self-identify as "Russian" to an American simply to avoid confusion.

 

[Leland]

Leland, treat this information the way a trained intelligence analyst is trained to take in information.

Now, please, don't take this as an attack on Jillian. And Jillian, if you are reading this, this is an example, albeit an extreme one, of how trained wogs analyze data.

OK, here is how an intelligence analyst would look at this.

Look at the source. What is her affiliation and motivation? How does this affect reliability?

A: Firmly Ex-Sea Org, pissed off at DM, blew completely and went to uber-SP Karen #1. However, Hubbard's mind-fuck is long lasting, source may have residual effects. Must evaluate each statement from her on a case-by-case basis.

Do these factors seem to have an impact on this particular piece of data?

A: No, not really. Nothing in this observation really violates any residual mental effects of $CN (if she were talking about psychs, I might be inclined to look harder, but she's talking about observations in the SO).

What is her observational acumen, intelligence, and education?

A: Seems natively intelligent. Was observant enough to try to protect herself from fiberglass hazards. Education unknown, likely Sea Org influenced. Likely moderate to low knowledge of languages and geography outside the US, which is not all that high in non-SO educated Americans to begin with.

What was the source of her information? Is she likely spreading disinformation, or was fed disinformation? Did her observational position give a limited view, or broad view? Is she extrapolating from experience that may be limited, or giving an only direct observations?

A: Source appears to be direct observation. Is Flag so large that she might have been stuck in a unit that happened to be Russian while others are not? I defer to others here, but my working assumption is that Flag is so small she would have a reasonably broad view wherever she was posted. There was no reason to feed her disinformation, as I doubt when she was at Flag people suspected she was going to blow. And there is pretty much no way she is a double agent.

However, is unclear and unlikely she saw the actual passports to make a conclusive ID.

Would she have anything to gain from disinformation?

A: Certain aspects of her story might make her seem more sympathetic if embellished, but this isn't one of those aspects.

Is what she reporting within her field of experience or expertise?

A: This is the tricky one. Probably not. Either in terms of statistics or geography / linguistics. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. We know from Black Rob's thread that many who are assumed by the world at large to be Russian Scientologists are actually from other Eastern European countries. Many Eastern speak Russian as a second language, and it would become a sort of Lingua Franca at Flag if there were a significant number of Eastern Europeans there. Not sure how her stats were gathered.

So, the intelligence analyst in me rates this information as:

High probability that the core message is solid. Details and extent of statistics may be fuzzy. Data needed further on exact nationalities and numbers.

Practical conclusion: Best guesstimate is that Flag is now 60% ± 20% foreign nationals, high probability Eastern European. Probably speak Russian among themselves, though other languages that sound Russian to the untrained ear (e.g. Bulgarian, Ukranian, Byelorussian, Serbian) may be the actual language used. May be Russian ethnics from other countries or using the second language to avoid being spied upon, and these technical non-Russians would self-identify as "Russian" to an American simply to avoid confusion.

WoW, what a tour de force! I like you Udarnik , I like your posts...and this one is great! LoL I hope you are not pushing my familial buttons. I can imagine "M " giving a terse dressing down to 007. LoL.

The floor had been opened for comments and I made one. Of course plenty of room for further investigating and data collection!

 

[Karen#1]

Yes, I agree with all above comments.
The 80% Russian was loosely said, its' not as if she lined them up for a head count...it was in the context of a HUGE amount of Russians while Americans were a TINY minority.

I could say 95% of this board know the scams but I am just plucking a figure out of my hat..

Also *Church* Immigration Lawyers had worked it all out for "Religious Visas" so they are all legally in the country to work *religiously* and that's why huge contingents of them have now flooded in.....all Legal.​

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

The Cult Examiner (SP Extraordinaire, David Love) picked up the story and video:

http://www.examiner.com/article/another-miscavige-scientology-sea-org-member-escapes-the-cult

Comments are Open!

thanks, my comment has been submitted.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

My question would be, where are they posted? Most of the non Americans I saw were not on public lines. Yes, there were the Germans, French, Italians, posted as auditors, reges, MAA's etc. Those were the people I dealt with the most other than the housekeeping staff. So I couldn't comment on the back line staff. Is the reason for hiring them that they are trapped on base, because their pass ports are being held by the MAA, so they can't easily take off and go home?

Mimsey

 

[Karen#1]

My question would be, where are they posted? Most of the non Americans I saw were not on public lines. Yes, there were the Germans, French, Italians, posted as auditors, reges, MAA's etc. Those were the people I dealt with the most other than the housekeeping staff. So I couldn't comment on the back line staff. Is the reason for hiring them that they are trapped on base, because their pass ports are being held by the MAA, so they can't easily take off and go home?

Mimsey

Mimsey, When so much Real Estate is owned in a town, (hundreds of thousands of square feet,) many workers are needed. In the Sea org it's called "Estates Crew". They do plumbing, electrical, cleaning, maintenance of all things that are "inoperational", cooking, cleaning, painting, key making, kitchen jobs ~~ preparing meals, plus wash up of 2000+ servings 3x a day, canteen jobs.

Its like servicing an Army which is a combination of the 2000 that report every 6 months to give up their *CRIMES* and all other public plus the Sea Org existing crew

On arrival all foreign nationals have to turn in their passports so they cannot get on a plane and blow. Then they are put to work ! Lots of escalating penalties for not working hard enough ! See forthcoming videos.​

 

[Knows]

Yes, I agree with all above comments.
The 80% Russian was loosely said, its' not as if she lined them up for a head count...it was in the context of a HUGE amount of Russians while Americans were a TINY minority.

I could say 95% of this board know the scams but I am just plucking a figure out of my hat..

Also *Church* Immigration Lawyers had worked it all out for "Religious Visas" so they are all legally in the country to work *religiously* and that's why huge contingents of them have now flooded in.....all Legal.​

That reminded me of a guy I know.

I know an Oat Tea Ate that went to flag in mid 2000's to get help with loss of family. He was sec checked to the tune of $100K. He was pissed because he never got any help for the overwhelming grief. He blocked that off and still went to events. Hell - I blocked that off and continued up the Bridge to Nowhere. (cringe) Why did I not stop and think - if this guy can't handle grief and he is Oat Tea - how am I going to get these super powers to overcome normal Wog HE&R? But I burried that and thought there was something I did not understand about Oat Tea's and maybe I will understand it once I am Oat Tea. (cringe again)

He told me he would never go to Flag EVER again, but still believes in Tubbs. He told me I should go to Flag though...WTF? He never did do his Basics - said he already knew the Basics. FEBCDCABC trained. Whatever...

He also told me that he was subjected to a 20 year old MAA who was telling him how to handle a situation and that also pissed him off. He was highly trained and an auditor. His certs got pulled in 96 and he refused to do GAT I. He would not do the Basics although he bought them.

He told me that Flag sucked because they were all foreigner's with English as their second language. That was 2005 or so. That also upset him.

He told me he was not going to the Church any longer - he said something is wrong - but GAT II was the bomb. He knows something is wrong but figures the Church will figure it out. How Oat Tea is that?

I know some of the Class 5 Org's have lots of foreigner's working there. Where do they come from and how does the cult human traffick them into the Organization?

I can only imagine some of the "promises" the cult gives these poor souls from suppressed and oppressed countries... I hope some of them come out soon and write some books!

 

[chuckbeatty]

...
Practical conclusion: Best guesstimate is that Flag is now 60% ± 20% foreign nationals, high probability Eastern European. Probably speak Russian among themselves, though other languages that sound Russian to the untrained ear (e.g. Bulgarian, Ukranian, Byelorussian, Serbian) may be the actual language used. May be Russian ethnics from other countries or using the second language to avoid being spied upon, and these technical non-Russians would self-identify as "Russian" to an American simply to avoid confusion.

Other questions I'd ask her is study time, who studies in what groups, how many tables together, or spread out.

At course time, people can often be counted, or musters also.

What orgs?

There are so many questions.

The money is income, GI, figures, and this is huge good new info.

If FSO is capable of 1.5 million GI weekly, and the bottom line, in LRH's traffic on income, is FSO GI, and likely the PAC GI (ASHOs and AOLA) isn't hitting their old highs, most likely.

Periods when earlier top regs like Enid Byrne and Ivan Obolensky were hitting earlier higher periods, or even that leaked internal briefing with Renee Norton, current and still CO ASHO Fdn, Renee was an old reg and she's telling that group about reg successes of hers in the past, and would mean to me, that she was giving that briefing to try to share her old successful actions overall to that mainly ASHO D and ASHO F audience in that one video leaked recently.

This info is all great.

But that FSO is still pulling in 1 to 1.5 million a week, is critical to their not overall collapsing! That is really important income info to acknowledge the actual scene.

It's the whales that keep them afloat, and this movement has got to lose the whales, and then they will start hurting.

It's great that top staff defect, but its income that keeps the whole top Int Base afloat financially, and it's FSO income that keeps top managment afloat.

And the estates renos in PAC likely is in need of much more steady and higher income out of ASHO D and F, and AOLA.

Does anyone know if my ex wife, Ann Beatty, is still working as an FSC (Flag Service Consultate) for WUS?

 

[chuckbeatty]

That reminded me of a guy I know.


He told me that Flag sucked because they were all foreigner's with English as their second language. That was 2005 or so. That also upset him.

. . .
I know some of the Class 5 Org's have lots of foreigner's working there. Where do they come from and how does the cult human traffick them into the Organization?

I can only imagine some of the "promises" the cult gives these poor souls from suppressed and oppressed countries... I hope some of them come out soon and write some books!

Language barrier of the foreign Sea Org members on staffs in the US Sea Org orgs keeps them from reading the media, internet.

So actually in a way, getting more of the material to the sites that Russian staff might just venture to look at, would be helpful to those foreign staff who consider defecting.

Trying to stay in the US is also sometimes part of their personal goals, getting to the US, to LA and a place to stay, and feeling part of a superior group, etc, they are much more less likely to complain.

A whole study of the large input of foreign Sea Org members these last 10 years ought be done!

It's a valid point of assessing the lack of long staying Sea Org staff overall!

But the time it takes anyone to wise up and leave Sea Org is still pretty high, pretty long, and long enough to have them hold positions in that are needed, all the lower level lower ranks positions.

The star regs in PAC seem to be COB's analysis points, and that leaked video of Renee Norton trying to share the air and atmosphere of her heyday years as a top ASHO reg, also seems what we've also seen, the church is shifting from the beingness of the auditor, to the beingness of the reg.

They want everyone to become good regs more than they want everyone to become good auditors!

And PAC is lagging in the star regs category I'd say! I wonder who is GIEI, is it still Fran Harris? Do people know who the top managers over income are today?

Who's the Finance Office boss? Who's WDC Reserves?

Has Jono and Leslie Epstein left the Sea Org?

Is Wendell Reynolds playing any role over money?

Who's in the top Finance Office group at Int Base?

Who's the top IAS regs in WUS? Is Myriam Bright still working for IAS?

What happened to the PAC RPF doing all the renos, is what I'd like to know, if the outside contractors are being hired so much?

What's up with the PAC MILL?

 

[koki]

good vids....

but must say :
LRH Tech : 19 +6 = 24

Wogs Tech : 19 + 6 = 25....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1IPDTHjyj7o#t=236



:wink2:

 

[betskand]

Yes, I agree with all above comments.
The 80% Russian was loosely said, its' not as if she lined them up for a head count...it was in the context of a HUGE amount of Russians while Americans were a TINY minority.

I could say 95% of this board know the scams but I am just plucking a figure out of my hat..

Also *Church* Immigration Lawyers had worked it all out for "Religious Visas" so they are all legally in the country to work *religiously* and that's why huge contingents of them have now flooded in.....all Legal.​

Probably everyone already knows this, but if you don't, be sure to see part II of Karen's incredible series of interviews with Jillian...it's in the main news on today's Underground Bunker.

More amazing stuff, Karen...I really can't wait until the next one.

It was actually kind of sickening...the story of the Garcia woman (think I have the name right, my memory lasts about 2 mins, not time enough to switch sites) being in lock-down was just too reminiscent of Lisa M.

Thank Ceiling Cat that at some point you screamed "Hold your horses! There's money involved? ... Change the declare!" Once again I choked on my breakfast.

What do you have against my breakfasts, Karen?
Edit: the name of the lady in lock-up is Gomez. Man, age is creeping up on little Sherman tank feet. Probably because I'm always splooshing my coffee and my breakfast on the computer screen!

 

[Leland]

Second Jillian vid posted at the bunker........Did I hear right? Did she say an idle org in Ingelwood? Why would there be an org in Ingelwood? Seems very weird!

 

[Karen#1]

*2nd Video* Jillian Schlesinger, 2nd generation Ex Sea Org, 2/6
Jillian worked at the Flag Land Base in Clearwater from 2007 to 2013.
Then she was shipped to Los Angeles where she worked at Bridge Publications (her *nightmare*) and more about all this is due course.
Jillian talks about many subjects we are all too familiar with. Knowledge Reports ~~ husbands snitching on wives, wives snitching on husbands ~~ parents report their children etc etc all to RTC and "Ethics Officers."
Abortions are solicited more quietly and persuasively without heavy ETHICS punishments as in the past. Lock down/kidnap/Held against will with guards outside the door still occurring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6xZwNJi1rM​

 

[Sindy]

Second Jillian vid posted at the bunker........Did I hear right? Did she say an idle org in Ingelwood? Why would there be an org in Ingelwood? Seems very weird!

Uh, did you know that there is one in Harlem too?

 

[TG1]

But that FSO is still pulling in 1 to 1.5 million a week, is critical to their not overall collapsing! That is really important income info to acknowledge the actual scene.

It's the whales that keep them afloat, and this movement has got to lose the whales, and then they will start hurting.

^^^ You said a mouthful, Chuck!

And as HH was saying a week or so ago, God help Miscavige as the whales start to realize how badly fucked they now are.

There is no more "Scientology" as we were all led to believe it existed. And without that, what's the point? Even for those idiots.

TG1

 

[Leland]

Uh, did you know that there is one in Harlem too?

Thanks. That is not entirely what I meant. First why such a big facility? Second it's only 15 minute or 30 minute drive to the PAC base and that Org, which for LA is right around the corner..... So to speak.

it makes me think its just to have a "real estate" presence.

plus..... May as well make a statement regarding this.....I was in Scien almost 30 years and saw maybe 3 African Americans the entire time. LOL I'd sure like to know how they are able to avoid getting roped in. I guess they ( blacks) are already wise to slavery and aren't into being slaves again!

 

[Karen#1]

Leland ~~ David Miscavige made a pandering remark of how hip and cool it was to interface with Black Culture.
This is exactly what Miscavige said when he opened "Ideal Org Inglewood"
"Talk about permeating and penetrating culture. Or to put it another way, most white folks wouldn't have a clue what it means to be cool if it weren't for Black America."


Tony Ortega posted it This was in context with being *COOL* and the vanguard of going broadly into CULTURE. Harlem and Inglewood were the the result of being Culturally Hip. The *CHURCH* hurriedly took down all copies of the video. An embarrassment.


​

 

[Leland]

Other questions I'd ask her is study time, who studies in what groups, how many tables together, or spread out.

At course time, people can often be counted, or musters also.

What orgs?

There are so many questions.

The money is income, GI, figures, and this is huge good new info.

If FSO is capable of 1.5 million GI weekly, and the bottom line, in LRH's traffic on income, is FSO GI, and likely the PAC GI (ASHOs and AOLA) isn't hitting their old highs, most likely.

Periods when earlier top regs like Enid Byrne and Ivan Obolensky were hitting earlier higher periods, or even that leaked internal briefing with Renee Norton, current and still CO ASHO Fdn, Renee was an old reg and she's telling that group about reg successes of hers in the past, and would mean to me, that she was giving that briefing to try to share her old successful actions overall to that mainly ASHO D and ASHO F audience in that one video leaked recently.

This info is all great.

But that FSO is still pulling in 1 to 1.5 million a week, is critical to their not overall collapsing! That is really important income info to acknowledge the actual scene.

It's the whales that keep them afloat, and this movement has got to lose the whales, and then they will start hurting.

It's great that top staff defect, but its income that keeps the whole top Int Base afloat financially, and it's FSO income that keeps top managment afloat.

And the estates renos in PAC likely is in need of much more steady and higher income out of ASHO D and F, and AOLA.

Does anyone know if my ex wife, Ann Beatty, is still working as an FSC (Flag Service Consultate) for WUS?

Was Ann a very pretty Blonde....around 30 in 2000?

 

[Sindy]

Thanks. That is not entirely what I meant. First why such a big facility? Second it's only 15 minute or 30 minute drive to the PAC base and that Org, which for LA is right around the corner..... So to speak.

it makes me think its just to have a "real estate" presence.

plus..... May as well make a statement regarding this.....I was in Scien almost 30 years and saw maybe 3 African Americans the entire time. LOL I'd sure like to know how they are able to avoid getting roped in. I guess they ( blacks) are already wise to slavery and aren't into being slaves again!

I see. Hehe. Well, that's good. I hear you.

 

[JBWriter]

Re: Karen de la Carriere YouTube Channel - Jillian Schlesinger Videos - March 2014

*2nd Video* Jillian Schlesinger, 2nd generation Ex Sea Org, 2/6
Jillian worked at the Flag Land Base in Clearwater from 2007 to 2013.
Then she was shipped to Los Angeles where she worked at Bridge Publications (her *nightmare*) and more about all this is due course.
Jillian talks about many subjects we are all too familiar with. Knowledge Reports ~~ husbands snitching on wives, wives snitching on husbands ~~ parents report their children etc etc all to RTC and "Ethics Officers."
Abortions are solicited more quietly and persuasively without heavy ETHICS punishments as in the past. Lock down/kidnap/Held against will with guards outside the door still occurring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6xZwNJi1rM
​

I've no way of knowing if all of the videos with Jillian Schlesinger have already been filmed, but if not,
would it be possible to ask her about how much/how little internet access sea org people have?
And if the amount of internet access has diminished during her 10 year tenure?

Also, if the ballpark figure of 4,000 remaining sea org people (in Los Angeles + Clearwater) is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, the significance of that number should be further considered by the folks here at ESMB. (Compare how many people were in the Los Angeles + Clearwater sea org in the late 80s, early 90's against the remaining 4,000 today.)

Thank you, Jillian Schlesinger.
I hope you continue to enjoy the very best life has to offer.

JB