Marty: Independent: Definition Of

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Martys redefining of terms to fit the scene, why does he give life to a belief that the followers of his blog need distinction.

Whilst Marty and Mike are on their campaign trail against Miscavige, ive noted a few previously hard core commenting about Hubbards policies could be wrong.

One step up from void of suspicion, with so much of hubbards history excreted into the public & not safeguarded, i wonder what dead agent techniques Marty uses to handle those who trip over it.

What prayers could Marty whisper in tongues before bed to ward off hubbards haunting past?
 
That is a false assertion.

Furthermore, you have no way of knowing what comments were disallowed as they are pre-moderated so nobody but the poster and the moderators ever see them.
:eyeroll:

Actually, Sneaks, quite a few of those comments have wound up posted over here on ESMB. :yes:

MR's censorship has established that he doesn't like truth much when it contradicts the lovely images of lrh, the church, or himself that he wants others to believe. He's still clearly shown himself to be committed to the official whitewash even if he is opposed to Miscavige's leadership.

One thing that I don't understand though is why you waste so much time carrying water for MR? It's not exactly as if he is a "Bringer of Light & Truth Unto the Darkness". The furtherance of half-truths doesn't warrant much in the way of support.


Mark A. Baker
p.s. FWIW, I've been barred from posting on MR's blog. Whatever you may think of my posts over there they have all been factual & civil, although they haven't customarily been received in a civil fashion. :)
 
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Veda

Sponsor
No matter how it's wrapped - or disguised - and no matter the buzz words used, the basic message is:

Miscavige bad.

Hubbard good.​
 

Django

Patron
Thanks for the laugh, Marty. This from the guy who nukes every post that questions Hubbard and KSW.
?

Just being fair: MR doesn't delete every post critical of Hubbard on his blog. I once called LRH "The 20th Century's Greatest Con Man" in the comments, and he let it through, and there are other examples of that, from other people.

Granted, it's hard to judge what he'll accept, and he's "nuked" a few of my posts that were, admittedly, a bit wise-ass in nature. And yes, my take is that you don't completely wake up to the Scn experience until you realize what a con Hubbard stumbled on, what a habitual, pathological liar he was, and I hope that Marty does that someday.

But the door is open a tiny crack....
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Marty said:
From Merriam Webster’s dictionary:


1 : not dependent: as


a (1) : not subject to control by others : self-governing (2) :not affiliated with a larger controlling unit <an independentbookstore>


b (1) : not requiring or relying on something else : not contingent <an independent conclusion> (2) : not looking to others for one’s opinions or for guidance in conduct (3) : not bound by or committed to a political party


c (1) : not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood) <independent of her parents> (2) : being enough to free one from the necessity of working for a living <a person of independent means>


d : showing a desire for freedom <an independent manner>


I post this as food for thought for anyone clinging to remnants of Scientology cult think. I have observed a lot of noise stemming from what I consider remnant cult, group think perhaps instilled by the Radical Corporate church of Scientology.


Here it is from 1852 , looks like INDEPENDENT has happened before :)


in context of religion

Roget's thesaurus said:
#984. Heterodoxy. [Sectarianism.]— N. heterodoxy; error &c. 495; false doctrine, heresy, schism; schismaticism[obs3], schismaticalness; recusancy, backsliding, apostasy; atheism &c. (irreligion) 989[obs3]. bigotry &c. (obstinacy) 606; fanaticism, iconoclasm; hyperorthodoxy[obs3], precisianism[obs3], bibliolatry[obs3], sabbatarianism[obs3], puritanism; anthropomorphism; idolatry &c. 991; superstition &c. (credulity) 486; dissent &c. 489. sectarism[obs3], sectarianism; noncomformity[obs3]; secularism; syncretism[obs3], religious sects. protestantism, Arianism[obs3], Adventism, Jansenism, Stundism[obs3], Erastianism[obs3], Calvinism, quakerism[obs3], methodism, anabaptism[obs3], Puseyism, tractarianism[obs3], ritualism, Origenism, Sabellianism, Socinianism[obs3], Deism, Theism, materialism, positivism, latitudinarianism &c. High Church, Low Church, Broad Church, Free Church; ultramontanism[obs3]; papism, papistry; monkery[obs3]; papacy; Anglicanism, Catholicism, Romanism; popery, Scarlet Lady, Church of Rome, Greek Church. paganism, heathenism, ethicism[obs3]; mythology; polytheism, ditheism[obs3], tritheism[obs3]; dualism; heathendom[obs3]. Judaism, Gentilism[obs3], Islamism, Islam, Mohammedanism, Babism[obs3], Sufiism, Neoplatonism, Turcism[obs3], Brahminism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sabianism, Gnosticism, Hylotheism[obs3], Mormonism; Christian Science. heretic, apostate, antichrist[obs3]; pagan, heathen; painim[obs3], paynim[obs3]; giaour[obs3]; gentile; pantheist, polytheist; idolator. schismatic; sectary, sectarian, sectarist[obs3]; seceder, separatist, recusant, dissenter; nonconformist, nonjuror[obs3]. bigot &c. (obstinacy) 606; fanatic, abdal[obs3], iconoclast. latitudinarian, Deist, Theist, Unitarian; positivist, materialist; Homoiousian[obs3], Homoousian[obs3], limitarian[obs3], theosophist, ubiquitarian[obs3]; skeptic &c. 989. Protestant; Huguenot; orthodox dissenter, Congregationalist,
Independent; Episcopalian, Presbyterian; Lutheran, Calvinist, Methodist, Wesleyan; Ana[obs3], Baptist; Mormon, Latter-day Saint[obs3], Irvingite, Sandemanian, Glassite, Erastian; Sublapsarian, Supralapsarian[obs3]; Gentoo, Antinomian[obs3], Swedenborgian[obs3]; Adventist[obs3], Bible Christian, Bryanite, Brownian, Christian Scientist, Dunker, Ebionite, Eusebian; Faith Curer[obs3], Curist[obs3]; Familist[obs3], Jovinianist, Libadist[obs3], Quaker, Restitutionist[obs3], Shaker, Stundist, Tunker &c.[obs3]; ultramontane; Anglican[obs3], Oxford School; tractarian[obs3], Puseyite, ritualist; Puritan. Catholic, Roman, Catholic, Romanist, papist. Jew, Hebrew, Rabbinist, Rabbist[obs3], Sadducee; Babist[obs3], Motazilite; Mohammedan, Mussulman, Moslem, Shiah, Sunni, Wahabi, Osmanli. Brahmin[obs3], Brahman[obs3]; Parsee, Sufi, Buddhist; Magi, Gymnosophist[obs3], fire worshiper, Sabian, Gnostic, Rosicrucian &c. Adj. heterodox, heretical; unorthodox, unscriptural, uncanonical; antiscriptural[obs3], apocryphal; unchristian, antichristian[obs3]; schismatic, recusant, iconoclastic; sectarian; dissenting, dissident; secular &c, (lay) 997. pagan; heathen, heathenish; ethnic, ethnical; gentile, paynim[obs3]; pantheistic, polytheistic. Judaical, Mohammedan, Brahminical[obs3], Buddhist &c.n.; Romish, Protestant &c.n. bigoted &c. (prejudiced) 481, (obstinate) 606; superstitious &c. (credulous) 486; fanatical; idolatrous &c. 991; visionary &c. (imaginative) 515. Phr. "slave to no sect" [Pope]; superstitione tollenda religio non tollitur [Lat][Cicero].
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Independent Scientologist = classic oxymoron.

Still, heartening to see Marty remind his flock that someone who calls themselves an Independent Scientologist is no more trustworthy than a Republican. Interesting also to see Marty distancing his cult from the uniform agreement required to shape a KSW reality. If each Independent is fee to practise Scientology as they see fit, the notion of Standard Tech is, effectively, defenestrated.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I suspect Mark may have been using a somewhat different definition of "tool" than the one you reference. See http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool


He was probably reluctant to suggest Word Clearing. Me, not-so-much. :biggrin:

Are you taking Terril's place as Baker's tag team partner? I hope not.

I'm aware of the definition of "tool." A tool - referring to a person - is one who is used. As you so noted: "One who lacks the mental capacity to know he's being used."

Well, who is this "universally recognized" tool being used by?

Dunno?

Then never-mind. :eyeroll:

Gee, I feel a little bit invalidated. I hope this isn't some Reverse Scientology like the stuff used by Radical Corporate Scientology. If it's bad then it's Reverse Scientology, right? Because, as we know, and Ron told us, Scientology is good, just like he told us to think for ourselves. Yup.

And as 'Zhong' so graciously does, he selected one of the least embarrassing of the many embarrassing fawning acolyte VGI-full responses to Marty, as an example of MartyWorld enlightenment, and that was from 'GetTheConcept', who wrote:

"[Independent Scientologists are those]...that study and use Scientology in a way they want to, without violating the proven workable methods of course..."

And (in response to another poster) as for Marty allowing a critical post "in" now and then - he lets nothing in that hasn't been said on the Internet endless times and is already known. He does not let anything in that is "hot."

The statement "Hubbard was a con man" (or its variations) is one that any of the new breed of Scientologist must be able to "handle." These moments of "safe" allowed "entheta" are drill-able moments, exercises for the faithful.

After all, they have to learn how to handle us Wogs, Homo Saps, Failed Scientologists, NCG Cases, DBs, SPs, Haters, Bigots, Extremists, non-mainstreamers, misfits, punks, anti-Scientologists, PTS types, and other unfortunate elements.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by Captain Koolaid
Thanks for the laugh, Marty. This from the guy who nukes every post that questions Hubbard and KSW

That is a false assertion.

Furthermore, you have no way of knowing what comments were disallowed as they are pre-moderated so nobody but the poster and the moderators ever see them.


HELPFUL TIPS:

1. Word clear Marty's answers to people posting "entheta" about Hubbard and KSW. Clay demo the especially difficult words like natterboard, low-toned, punk and hater.

2. Read ESMB for the considerable volume of times people reported their comments on Marty's blog were censored.

3. Find a new tech that people don't laugh at. This lying thing isn't working for you.

 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Here's a guess...

Marty might well have been reacting to "disturbances" within the Indie movement over there, but I think he might well have another better reason for making an expansive post on the "group" called Indie Scientology.

Taking a page out of the Anonymous lesson book, I would suggest that Marty is taking out an insurance policy for the possibility of future litigation.

By defining Indie Scientologists in this way (although he doesn't actually let people think independently) he conjures up the notion of a scattered and diverse bunch of individuals who only share the word "Scientology belief" in common.

And those "beliefs" are further diffused into as many interpretations as there are independents.

In other words, we ain't no group. We are just like Anonymous, without leadership and without adherence to a fixed or preordained set of ideas or actions.

Thus, if he can sell this idea (or at least establish it in the record) the liability of one Indie to another (and to himself) could well be limited, mitigated or eliminated in a court that might well rule that each "indie" acts on their own behalf.

It's a strategy, it's not a philosophy.

If he believed in "independent thought" he would not react as he does to independent thought that does not coincide with his own.
 

Zhongjianren

Patron with Honors
Marty on the Russian situation.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/independent-definition-of/#comment-153506

martyrathbun09 | October 6, 2011 at 10:13 pm | Reply

Perhaps our Russian and Ukranian Indie friends will provide some clarification. I am willing to bet the over-the-top Idle Org violated ethnics and played a large part in this. I have learned a bit about the Russian economy of late and can surmise for that knowledge that Miscavige’s grand event in that climate was probably taken by most as an arrogant slap in the face.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/independent-definition-of/#comment-153519

Tony DePhillips | October 6, 2011 at 11:00 pm | Reply

I couldn’t see the video clip when I clicked on the link. I went to Youtube and tried to find it. No luck. But I did find this, it looks like the Russians don’t take kindly to being messed with by a cult.

[video=youtube;qc3xj-pG-1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc3xj-pG-1s[/video]
LDW | October 7, 2011 at 12:56 am | Reply

Thanks Tony,

So what we have is org staff routing in students, convincing them to give up thier studies, quit the university, give the org all their money and work for $10 a week.

Let’s see, I wonder if any of the retards from the org surveyed that as a socially acceptable and in ARC with the community idea????

Methinks not. After all…they know best!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Are you taking Terril's place as Baker's tag team partner? I hope not.

I'm aware of the definition of "tool." A tool - referring to a person - is one who is used. As you so noted: "One who lacks the mental capacity to know he's being used."

Well, who is this "universally recognized" tool being used by?

Dunno? <snip....>
I'm politely suggesting that you're using the wrong definition.

What you're supposed to do is look at some alternate definitions such as the link I provided (you could try this http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/tool ), read the OTHER definitions of "tool" and try to find an alternate definition which might possibly apply in this instance.

Then you're supposed to use the word in sentences until you can demonstrate correct usage. The above post, where you choose to demonstrate "being a tool" rather than using it in sentences is perfectly OK with me but it is kinda squirrelly Word Clearing Tech.

Still, whatever works for you. :biggrin:
 

Veda

Sponsor
I'm politely suggesting that you're using the wrong definition.

What you're supposed to do is look at some alternate definitions such as the link I provided (you could try this http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-of/tool ), read the OTHER definitions of "tool" and try to find an alternate definition which might possibly apply in this instance.

Then you're supposed to use the word in sentences until you can demonstrate correct usage. The above post, where you choose to demonstrate "being a tool" rather than using it in sentences is perfectly OK with me but it is kinda squirrelly Word Clearing Tech.

Still, whatever works for you. :biggrin:

In the context that it was presented, the definition of the word "tool" is as I stated, and even as you stated.

What you're suggesting is that I perform the necessary mental gymnastics or contortions to make Baker's botched comment make sense.

Gee, that sounds like Scientology.

:headspin:

I don't really mind this silliness. It's amusing watching Baker's camp of FZ Scientologists (he's their unofficial representative on ESMB), who are currently feuding with the Rathbun camp of Independent Scientologists, occasionally close ranks and march in lock step when their shared "applied philosophy" is being attacked by "Earth people."
 
In the context that it was presented, the definition of the word "tool" is as I stated, and even as you stated.

What you're suggesting is that I perform the necessary mental gymnastics or contortions to make Baker's botched comment make sense.

Gee, that sounds like Scientology.

:headspin:

I don't really mind this silliness. It's amusing watching Baker's camp of FZ Scientologists (he's their unofficial representative on ESMB), who are currently feuding with the Rathbun camp of Independent Scientologists, occasionally close ranks and march in lock step when their shared "applied philosophy" is being attacked by "Earth people."

MORE imaginary conspiracies, V? :eyeroll:

Being you must be very difficult. :bigcry:


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
MORE imaginary conspiracies, V? :eyeroll:

Being you must be very difficult. :bigcry:


Mark A. Baker

No. Just noting that there is an element in FZ Scientology which felt "disrespected" by Marty & his Independent Scientology and don't like Marty. They're an inconsequential bunch, as most of outside the CofS Scientology - FZ or whatever - have kissed Marty's ring.

And since you just wrote "MORE imaginary conspiracies," how about telling me what those other conspiracies are?
 
... They're an inconsequential bunch, as most of outside the CofS Scientology - FZ or whatever - have kissed Marty's ring. ...

The sad thing is you really can't help yourself. :no:

Believe it or not, you really do have my pity.


Mark A. Baker
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation

Posted by HelluvaHoax!

snipped


It's a strategy, it's not a philosophy.​



:yes:


Oh.

My.

Gawd.

Yet another wannabee guru using waaaay too many words to say (in a distinctly cultic fashion) 'I am an Independent and this is not a cult' while carefully using all the familiar culty tools, Tubs references and language for the culties that he is addressing!

Marty ... do shut up, or at the very least dump the essays and the lecturing, they are awfully cultic.

:lol:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The sad thing is you really can't help yourself. :no:

Believe it or not, you really do have my pity.


Mark A. Baker


Word Clown Du Jour Award

And the question avoidance grand prize goes to....Mark Baker! Hooorah!

What are you afraid of, why can't you ever answer the guy's questions? Cult got your tongue?

Try answering some time, instead of faux pity and contrived one-upsmanship--which is intensely boring.

WHo cares about your imagined intellectual altitude when you can't even answer simple questions?

Close the door when you are jerking off with words, nobody wants to see it.
 
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