Marty's latest blog: David Miscavige Killed Lisa McPherson

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is pure bullshit. I testified at the trial and read all of the material though mysteriously a lot of her folder was missing.
I can tell you that this particular r/d killed a lot of people over the years. I was auditing a few pcs on this r/d at flag under the fat man's csing and it indeed drove the people who were already in trouble absolutely nuts. It would be interesting to see how mny people over the years died as a result of this particular "process". At that time there wre several of the class 12's who were trying to audit the fat man to of course no ressult. Though nothing was said outloud, the general concensus was that the fat man was trying to work out a lot of his own dementia through what he was creating as auditing. imagine Jefferey Damher as the founder and you have the basic concept. NObody wanted to audit that r/d on people back then on the ship.Miscavage is nothing more than a used car salesman with an eight grade education. Though I admit he is a particular vicious car salesman. It occurs to me that those who are trying trying to head up movements to "salvage' the tech, people we call Indies, might have their eyes on the 1 to 2 billion dollars the church
has stashed. Lamentably, there is nothing of the "tech" to salvage. There is no good news here. Bill Franks

My bold and colour.

Thank you for this.
The bolded area: This should be a thought provoker to the 'it doesn't matter what Ron said or did, the tech works' brigade.
It may be prudent to think carefully about eating the delicious looking stew prepared by someone who keeps heads and human body parts in their freezer.

NObody wanted to audit that r/d on people back then on the ship

Karen#1:
It was on the Flag ship Apollo when LRH devised the 1st Introspection Rundown.
We had to study the case histories in depth as part of our training.
This was because Bruce Welch had a mental breakdown and threatened to grab a carving knife from the Galley of the ship and stab LRH 133x. He also wanted badly to stab Stuart Moreau the MAA.

He was explosively screaming his threats in a rage and was put in lock down. The only thing you can do on a ship is lock down someone intending to kill others. It is for protection of others. LRH devised the Introspection Rundown and ran Bruce Welch on the procedures and Welch returned to Sanity.

There was no chloral hydrate and no drugs. Bruce flipped right back to sanity with the 1st version of this rundown.

IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN EXPORTED AS A LAND BASE HANDLING FOR $$$$$$.
It was ship REMEDY for an emergency.
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Some of the key components of LRH's Introspection Rundown, that was supposed
to eliminate psychiatry, but killed Lisa McPherson instead are: isolation, restricted
communication/close to none, lack of true compassion or love, more secured isolation.
All backed up by bogus discoveries/ramblings from Ron's HCOB on the subject.

In his "infinite wisdom", LRH probably figured it would be smart to incorporate the whole
"no talking around injured/keyed-in person" Dianetics concept into this masterpiece of his,
never mind that injured/upset people sometimes actually NEED to be talked to,
even if simple words of support and love, voiced sincerely..

LRH killed Lisa. Miscavige and others were simply the assistants.
 
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xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
I'm just imagining how Lisa was put in that room under "nanny watch".
She was not allowed to leave the room without consent.
She was probably just wanting to leave and go elsewhere, get out of there, but she was stopped from doing so, in fact imprisoned in that room.
That is enough to drive anybody mad.,
Just imagine her screaming for help at the top of her voice and insisting she be let go, which would be her right to do so.
Thumping against the walls and doors in desperation.
Locked windows to the outside world.
Her hands bruised and bloody from trying to get out.
But no, they kept her there by force, against her free will.
Maybe she refused to eat and drink as a last resort and protest.

If somebody made a short film or documentary depicting this awful set-up it would be like a scene from a horror movie.
Just imagine the cold-hearted people who were stopping her from leaving the room.
How do they feel today?
Do they regret having done so?:omg:
There must be more people out there who know more on this case.
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm just imagining how Lisa was put in that room under "nanny watch".
She was not allowed to leave the room without consent.
She was probably just wanting to leave and go elsewhere, get out of there, but she was stopped from doing so, in fact imprisoned in that room.
That is enough to drive anybody mad.,
Just imagine her screaming for help at the top of her voice and insisting she be let go, which would be her right to do so.
Thumping against the walls and doors in desperation.
Locked windows to the outside world.
Her hands bruised and bloody from trying to get out.
But no, they kept her there by force, against her free will.
Maybe she refused to eat and drink as a last resort and protest.

If somebody made a short film or documentary depicting this awful set-up it would be like a scene from a horror movie.
Just imagine the cold-hearted people who were stopping her from leaving the room.
How do they feel today?
Do they regret having done so?:omg:
There must be more people out there who know more on this case.

Yes, Lisa had the moments of sanity apparently a few times, but no,
"one must follow the standard tech" = Introspection Rundown. :no:

So she died. The above is WHY.

I want one Scientologist/Indie/Freezoner to grow the balls and tell me
that I am wrong and Introspection Rundown is nothing but a gift to mankind.

Please.
 
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Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're on the wrong board for that conversation. Not likely to be any here who would disagree. Try the people at this site ...

http://internationalfreezone.net/

For convenience they also have a yahoo group ...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ifachat/

Enjoy.

Mark A. Baker :biggrin:

I am not on the wrong board for that conversation, let me assure you,
although I see your point Mark A. Baker. I am afraid it's a bit obsolete though. No offense.
The visitors/participants of the above groups are pretty aware of ESMB.
It's consolidation in the making.

Wish you well.

P.S. Also, are you a Scientologist of any kind, Mark?
Because if you are, may be instead of derailing/referring me and others to the links you provided,
you can be the first to actually give me a straight answer re: your thoughts on Introspection Rundown.
 
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Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Question: If one dedicated their life to Scientology, attested to be Clear and may be even OT VIII,
standard tech and all, continued to be "an upstat Scientologist" and yet, at some point experienced a mental/spiritual
meltdown and physical ailments, would one start question the validity of it all? If they still can, that is. Is that a weird question?
 

lurkanon

Patron with Honors
This is pure bullshit. I testified at the trial and read all of the material though mysteriously a lot of her folder was missing.
I can tell you that this particular r/d killed a lot of people over the years. I was auditing a few pcs on this r/d at flag under the fat man's csing and it indeed drove the people who were already in trouble absolutely nuts. It would be interesting to see how mny people over the years died as a result of this particular "process". At that time there wre several of the class 12's who were trying to audit the fat man to of course no ressult. Though nothing was said outloud, the general concensus was that the fat man was trying to work out a lot of his own dementia through what he was creating as auditing. imagine Jefferey Damher as the founder and you have the basic concept. NObody wanted to audit that r/d on people back then on the ship.Miscavage is nothing more than a used car salesman with an eight grade education. Though I admit he is a particular vicious car salesman. It occurs to me that those who are trying trying to head up movements to "salvage' the tech, people we call Indies, might have their eyes on the 1 to 2 billion dollars the church
has stashed. Lamentably, there is nothing of the "tech" to salvage. There is no good news here. Bill Franks


Thank you very much for this, Bill. Just to clarify - you refer to viewing "her folder" and observed (correctly) that a lot of it was missing.

There were originally several folders, at least six. At the start of the trial. And in one of them, following her Sunshine Rundown, where she was already suicidal, Lisa mentioned that she was very disturbed by the out ethics business practices of Beneta Slaughter that she had observed. Written next to the notes on her originations about BS, in red ink, was "BS is an upstat OT8 in good standing", with a note "Route to Ethics". In other words. Lisa had observed out ethics business practices by BS, and because of that, she was to be routed to Ethics for handling.

Did you see that in the folder you reviewed?
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you? :nervous:

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-. :bigcry:

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??:eyeroll:

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???:grouch:

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!:happydance:
 

damo

New Member
I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone else has thought about this.

It seems to me that Marty is goading DM and the CoS into suing him for defamation. He is being deliberately inflammatory and precise - "David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson". My guess is he wants to have some sort of "battle" against his old foe.

Scientology would be mad to respond, but then they would have to be mad to go for a gag order on an obviously unenforceable non-disclosure agreement. Nothing would surprise me.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you? :nervous:

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-. :bigcry:

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??:eyeroll:

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???:grouch:

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!:happydance:

I don't think auditing can make one insane. I think auditing someone who is already unstable can put them over the edge, and deliberately misauditing someone could make them temporarily nuts. By this I mean applying the wrong processes or doing tons of listing on questions that aren't reading, forcing items on a preclear, things of that nature. Things that you'd have to be an idiot or downright cruel to do, because like it or not there IS some workability in the processes of Scientology, and when something works, it can also be screwed up.

Imagine taking a person who is perfectly sane in all respects and is insisting that she no longer wants to take part in Scientology. In the mind of a Scientologist, this person is dramatizing something wrong with her case, not a genuine desire to leave. You ignore dramatizations. Some of Lisa's handlers didn't even speak English, they couldn't have engaged in a conversation with her even if they wanted to. Imagine after days, weeks of this, knowing that you are never getting out of there and that nothing you say will make a difference. She had to have known they were never going to let her leave. I can only imagine the frustration and fear that Lisa felt.

To this day I question whether or not Miscavige is even qualified by church standards to CS any case. I don't know how to even try to research it because staff comps are rarely if ever listed on the Scn Service completions. I heard that he watched in on a session and based on what he heard and saw in the session decided that Lisa was Clear and had her given an R-Factor and put on the CCRD. If it's true then it's gross eval by any CS standards. I can understand the Indies viewing this as the cause of her breakdown as it would have been a wrong indication and caused out-listing which has some nasty consequences all it's own, and every action after that would have just piled on more case upset and caused more problems.

With ya on the glad to be out of that crazy cult, though!! :thumbsup:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone else has thought about this.

It seems to me that Marty is goading DM and the CoS into suing him for defamation. He is being deliberately inflammatory and precise - "David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson". My guess is he wants to have some sort of "battle" against his old foe.

Scientology would be mad to respond, but then they would have to be mad to go for a gag order on an obviously unenforceable non-disclosure agreement. Nothing would surprise me.

Nah, can't see it from that viewpoint myself. Rathbun's post is, so far as David Miscavige is concerned, best ignored for it serves as "proof" that Rathbun is a nutcase and his protestations don't merit a response of any kind. In fact, the cult's PR is best served by (seemingly) rising above the rantings of an obviously disturbed individual making increasingly crazy statements. I mean, *every* Scilon *knows* Lisa McPherson died of a PE. Also, the fact that the cult doesn't respond provides additional evidence that it is benign, even caring in that it is leaving Rathbun unmolested to howl in the wilderness.

Now, if Rathbun were to tell of the behind-the-scenes machinations he knows of, especially in relation to how the coroner was made to recant her initial report, and more especially with DOX, you might have a point.
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
I do think that auditing can mess people up, altogether with the scn mindset that goes with it.
I've experienced it.
Look at Jason Beghe's interview, hé says the L's is what messed him up...(L 10or 11 I think)
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I do think that auditing can mess people up, altogether with the scn mindset that goes with it.
I've experienced it.
Look at Jason Beghe's interview, hé says the L's is what messed him up...(L 10or 11 I think)

AFAIK Ls are listing actions so I'm not surprised.

I was never damaged by auditing, personally. Even the bazillion sec checks I endured. Unless ofc you consider a complete and total unwillingness to go back in session to be damaged, in which case I am all kinds of fucked up! :eyeroll:
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I was long gone from Scientology when Lisa was at Flag and don't know most of the particulars of her situation -- so this isn't a comment on her per se. In fact, I only learned about Lisa McPherson and her death two or three years ago by reading online.

But I do think it's possible to drive someone over the edge with auditing -- either because it's designed to drive you over the edge or because it's misapplied repeatedly.

Don't you remember how aggravating it was to receive "bad auditing" -- particularly when you were paying for the privilege? And you had to pay for and wait for things to get straightened out? Well, I do. And it was not pleasant. And I'm just talking about plain vanilla major actions, not weird stuff like Lisa was going through or reportedly receiving.

However, getting auditing at Flag is not just about getting auditing. When you're a pc at Flag, you're already a prisoner. When you walk in those doors you are entering what is essentially a lockdown compound. You're on their routing form. You have virtually no control over your activities, your location or your schedule. You can't even sit in a different room than where "they" want you to sit. The control others have over you is enormous, and the control you have over yourself is minimal, even nil. And then if you don't perform as "they" expect you to perform, their attempts to control tighten even more.

It actually makes me feel queasy, sitting here thousands of miles away from Flag, imagining ever being in that environment again.

We all must have been a little bit crazy to start with ever to agree to submit to that level of control.

Yuck!

TG1
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am glad that Mike and Marty are talking. I hope they keep talking. I don't think Marty understands psychosis, and won't until he empties his mind of all he is holding onto - all the scno tech. That may or may not happen. I hope it does. But he has to keep talking, telling it, his reality . . . And I hope we allow him to do that.

I am listening. To all of you - and him - and Mike - and anyone talking about it.

Keep talking.
:yes:
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
I was long gone from Scientology when Lisa was at Flag and don't know most of the particulars of her situation -- so this isn't a comment on her per se. In fact, I only learned about Lisa McPherson and her death two or three years ago by reading online.

But I do think it's possible to drive someone over the edge with auditing -- either because it's designed to drive you over the edge or because it's misapplied repeatedly.

Don't you remember how aggravating it was to receive "bad auditing" -- particularly when you were paying for the privilege? And you had to pay for and wait for things to get straightened out? Well, I do. And it was not pleasant. And I'm just
talking about plain vanilla major actions, not weird stuff like Lisa was going through
or reportedly receiving.

However, getting auditing at Flag is not just about getting auditing. When you're a
pc at Flag, you're already a prisoner. When you walk in those doors you are entering what is essentially a lockdown compound. You're on their routing form. You have virtually no control over your activities, your location or your schedule. You can't even sit in a different room than where "they" want you to sit. The control others have over you is enormous, and the control you have over yourself is
minimal, even nil. And then if you don't perform as "they" expect you to perform,
their attempts to control tighten even more.

It actually makes me feel queasy, sitting here thousands of miles away from Flag, imagining ever being in that environment again.

We all must have been a little bit crazy to start with ever to agree to submit to that
level of control.

Yuck!

TG1

I don't agree when you say that auditing has to be misapplied in order to mess someone up...that would mean scn works when well-applied (KSW shit)...
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Can auditing drive someone insane? I think so. It sounds like Lisa was doing fine in life and then the "services" at Fraud Land Base drove her to a "break". So, if that happens, the Fraud Land Base OFFLOADS you? :nervous:

There was a guy that was on his OT Levels, Greg Bashie went to Flag, he suffered a bad break down and committed suicide because they OFFLOADED him. I think this happened in 2000 +/-. :bigcry:

Since McPherson's murder by Miscabbage, Fraud Land Base makes a person sign all sorts of releases - in case FRAUD LAND BASE's auditor mess up???? Or in Lisa's case - her C/S, David Mismanagement! RTC says it has nothing to do with the Churches - why is Dwarf Miscarriage C/Sing all of a sudden? Did anyone question this? Marty - did he think this was off policy??:eyeroll:

Another oddity - you get auditing, the auditor messes it up - you go home, you need a repair and YOU have to pay to go back, pay to get repaired?? What is the reasoning behind this except FRAUD??? And people do it and act as if that is okay???:grouch:

Glad to be OUT of that crazy CULT!:happydance:

I agree, auditing can drive a person insane. The result of the practise is to extract huge amounts of cash by distracting a person from the fraud so thoroughly that they end up sitting alone huddled over a re-boxed 19th century wheatstone bridge speaking to the spiritual debris of aliens brought to Earth by galactic rulah Xenu 75 million years ago and then blown up in volcanoes that didn't even exist at that time. Even before a person commences their OT levels, there are hours and hours and hours spent in an hypnotic-like trance state manufacturing make-believe stories about past lives which are reinforced by the auditor (even if they know they aren't true) and kept "locked-in" by strictly enforced policy on not being able to discuss these things with anyone - not even family and loved ones. A perfectly rational, intelligent yet vulnerable person quickly learns to obey without question starting with the TRs, and is gradually inculcated with all manner of nonsense until their cognitive functioning is replaced with Scientology automatism. Its even worse for staff. Most people don't get that far down the track but for the ardent believers, like Lisa, they are already half-way to insanity before they get to "Clear". It doesn't take much to push someone off the edge when they are in that state. Fortunately, for those that survive, its only temporary and begins to dwindle once they escape.

I think of it as being akin to, say, a heroin addiction. There are some majorly enjoyable times leading up to that barely indistinguishable moment when dabbling turns to addiction. Once that line is crossed, old friends (and often family) have been replaced and the previous life has become subsumed into an apparently endless quest to get the next buzz. Its not until the addict comes to their senses (or finds a replacement) in their own good time that recovery can commence. Some people can actually function quite well with the addiction provided they have the resources. For the less fortunate, its often not actually the drug which kills them, its the lifestyle. Living with fellow addicts and drug dealers on a day-to-day basis is dangerous. An addict can never be sure they're getting "the good stuff". When you are ripped off and/or when "shit happens", as it inevitably does when in that milieu, the consequences can be severe. There's no one to turn to unless you want to go clean. Even if you do want to go clean, there are always those around you who will drag you back in. Or just kill you.
 
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