New post from blownforgood - MUSICAL CHAIRS INT BASE STYLE

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I have to disagree. Mission Earth was awesome. I read tons of Sci-fi books and Mission Earth is up there with Dune saga and Foundation saga. 10 great books packed with action, sex and humour. No way CMO pukes wrote it.

I got in SCN thanks to these books. :happydance:

wow I have to confess I never thought I would see someone claiming to ne a Sci-Fi fan who would rank anything Hubbard wrote up against Asimov or Herbert.

While I think Mission Earth is complete rubbish I can understand that a person would, perhaps, think that it had some value as parody and irony.

As for whether the CMo could ave written it - no. But writers like RVY were far better than Hubbard. Any of the writers for Freedom magazine were far better at writing fiction than Hubbard ever was.

And, just to be clear - Hubbard was a good pulp Sci-Fi writer. I enjoyed a lot of his early stuff. It is a pity he never matured beyond that.
 

Div6

Crusader
Hi Div 6

boy, we have debated that on XSO and not managed to come up with a good answer. There are many many people ready to help out once a person leaves but trying to get through to them in order to get them to leave... not sure.

Hmm. I may have an idea.

Mick

Well....I contributed to mocking that scene up at one time....I may as well help unmock it. PM me if you have a good idea.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
wow I have to confess I never thought I would see someone claiming to ne a Sci-Fi fan who would rank anything Hubbard wrote up against Asimov or Herbert.

While I think Mission Earth is complete rubbish I can understand that a person would, perhaps, think that it had some value as parody and irony.

As for whether the CMo could ave written it - no. But writers like RVY were far better than Hubbard. Any of the writers for Freedom magazine were far better at writing fiction than Hubbard ever was.

And, just to be clear - Hubbard was a good pulp Sci-Fi writer. I enjoyed a lot of his early stuff. It is a pity he never matured beyond that.

Hubbard always aimed at the masses, he like to be duplicated. Herbert and Asimov are more nerdy, nevermind my favourite, A.E Van Vogt.

Mission Earth had a great action style, full of real life stuff. A great saga in its own style.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well....I contributed to mocking that scene up at one time....I may as well help unmock it. PM me if you have a good idea.

How about renting a plane that drags a sign saying "David Miscavige is an SP" or "People in the SP hall, make things go right, toss the dwarf out!". Or just the URL of this forum would cause a huge flap with DM and his minions.
 

Lee_from_phx

Patron with Honors
Lee,

It is impossible to do anything from the inside of this movement. One wrong blink and you're out of there. You cannot say one critical word about LRH, DM or the tech to anyone else without getting into serious ethics trouble in an instance.

We have much more power to stop this insanity from out here. We are not bound by Scientology's self-protective rules which only allow for one thing: it's unhindered expansion and elimination of any intention opposing or diverting it. Such as telling the truth.

V

I believe that you and I are talking about two very different things.

I'm talking about the abuse of staff at the hands of their psychotic overlord Miscavige, and how it is only continuing because they are allowing it to.

You seem to be talking about something else. "One wrong blink and you're out of there." That doesn't sound like a problem to me, it sounds like a solution!

I get the feeling that you're talking about trying to reform or salvage the cult, which to me is about as rational as trying to reform Al Qaeda. What would be the point? Individuals within the group may be worthy of rescue, but the group as a whole is nothing but a cancer upon the world and should be destroyed. Scientology is the enemy, plain and simple. You are right though that the best way to fight them is to tell the truth.

I'm waiting for the day when Miscavige says the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time and winds up dead.

I'm frankly amazed that this has not happened already. I read the reports of what he does to people. When I imagine myself in their place it shocks me to think that he's still alive. The man who was crying because he'd be separated from his wife...why would any person tolerate that? Why did he stand there and cry when he could have been strangling Miscavige?

The idea that it is "impossible to do anything" is nonsense. Does he have super-human powers? A regiment of armed guards who follow him everywhere? He is one man, and not a very impressive specimen of one at that.

The only reason he is still sucking air is because he's got everyone around him buffaloed. Otherwise one of them would have surely killed him by now. He's got them conned into giving him almost absolute power over them. So much so that they continue to give him that power in the face of continual and relentless abuse.

This is a situation that continues to exist BECAUSE THEY ALLOW IT TO. Instead of dancing around those chairs they should have beaten him to death with them.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Miscavige is a sociopath. Contrary to popular belief this is not a psychiatric condition. It is a character flaw (and yes it is a doozy). This is not something that can be treated with therapy or medication. The reason is that a part of these people is literally missing: their capacity for empathy.

Miscavige didn't "go crazy." He is not, strictly speaking, insane. He knows right from wrong, he just doesn't care. What he is, is evil. This is a topic that most people have a hard time facing. Describing someone or something as evil has fallen out of favor. Instead they are described as "crazy" or "sick." The notion that someone can simply be evil has been all but forgotten. Everyone keeps trying to find a reason why when someone guns down their coworkers, murders a child, or otherwise does something senseless and evil. In the abscence of any rational reason, the actions of these people are ascribed to mental illness. What most people never consider is that these acts were carried out specifically because they were evil. For people like this, doing evil is an end unto itself.

Like most people of this sort, Miscavige has been this way all his life. There was no point at which something happened which made him bad. The reasons why are still unclear, but there are people who are simply born without a capacity for empathy. They learn to be charming and manipulative, but they are completely incapable of any real feelings of warmth or affection for anyone other than themselves. The most dangerous among them take genuine pleasure in causing others pain. They gravitate towards positions of power where they can hurt others without any consequences for themselves. They look for excuses and justifications that will allow them to hurt others.

All of us have encountered people like this in life, and Miscavige is a grade A textbook example of this personality type.

He is evil and that is all there is to it. There is no use trying to understand him in normal terms. Everything he does is to gain more power for himself and to cause pain and suffering to others.

In normal society this is self-limiting behavior. People like Miscavige generally wind up in prison. They indulge their desire to harm others in the wrong place and at the wrong time and wind up behind bars. But in the bizarro-world that is Scientology, Miscavige's actions went unchecked and he eventually became Big Brother.

When will it end? Who knows.


:goodposting:

I don't know how to explain this easily, but ...

When you are a basically good, sane person, you think that others around you can be handled the way you can be handled. That if you communicate what you feel, the other person will "get it" and that they will change.

Women who live with abusive men are great examples of this. I have read a lot of material about abusive relationships, and the one thing that I clearly got from what I've read is that you have to think of an abuser's mind as being hardwired totally differently than yours is.

They only feel power from making another powerless, unlike the way a sane person feels powerful. They deliberately gain the trust of another person for the sole purpose of betraying that trust. Their whole mental pattern is different than a "good person's". Their feelings of self worth come totally from dominating and manipulating another person.

Attempting to reason with a person who is "hardwired" to think like this is useless. They don't respond to what a sane person responds to.

You have to really "get" this. You cannot handle a person like this with reason. With communication. With counselling. With anything.

I know someone where I work who has an abusive boyfriend. She has attempted for years to "change" him. She has talked with him and reasoned with him for hours on end. She has dragged him into relationship counselling many times. He was ordered to "Anger Management" classes after one incident by the courts.

This has been going on for years. Has it made one bit of difference?

Hell, no.

It's very hard when you realize that you have a person like this who influences your life - whether it be a boyfriend or husband, a boss, or a cult leader - to really understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that person's behavior. Nothing.

Like Lee said, there's a part of the person that is missing.

Why do certain people have that missing piece? Who knows?

It really doesn't matter why it is. It just matters that it is, and that you recognize it when you see it.

I read something once that made a lot of sense to me.

"With some people, all you can do is just get out of the way."
 
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Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Lee,

Lulu Belle explained it pretty well above.

The problem is that the abused people think they are wrong and Miscavige is right. If you read up on mind control techniques you can see how this is possible. Mind control is not pain-drug-hypnosis as much as gradually getting you to believe things could be a certain way and then enforcing them.

Besides, every person in Scientology, at least at that level is pretty much "alone" in such a situation. With the constant propaganda -- and you may have very hard time to grasp it unless you've been there -- you are the "only" one against DM and his endless resources. And, in fact, in relationship to you, one person, he pretty much does have endless resources. He spends millions in litigation and "never loses a court case" (that's the picture you are given when you're inside). He can singlehandedly "take down the IRS." And you are but mud on the shoe of God.

The point that seems to be the hardest to grasp by an "outside observer" is that people are there because they truly and honestly believe Scientology is their only salvation, the only solution for mankind's problems, their own personal spiritual immortality and eternity, and if they were to be SP declared that would be the end of them, as beings. A fate worse than death by far.

Or, even if the spiritual aspect doesn't bother you, think about it this way: Take your current life, your family, friends, your work, your house, your whole life. How attractive is the choice of getting kicked out of it all to be sent to and live in a drug- and crime-ridden slum where you know no one, don't have a roof over your head, no work, and with tens of thousands of dollars in debt? That's the world outside as seen through the blood-colored glasses installed by the constant propaganda.

Just take my word for it: The spiritual oblivion promised by LRH to a deserter is enormously more significant than the material losses.

And DM can deliver both to you faster than you can blink.

The world inside is completely different from the world outside. As long as you believe in LRH and believe DM is safeguarding Scientology (even if it is "from your out-ethics") by doing what he is doing, you're utterly powerless against him.

I don't know how else to put it.

V
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
The world inside is completely different from the world outside. As long as you believe in LRH and believe DM is safeguarding Scientology (even if it is "from your out-ethics") by doing what he is doing, you're utterly powerless against him.

I don't know how else to put it.

V

Back in the 60s there was a political cartoon that was made into a poster. It was by the then top cartoonist for the LA Times and, I'm hoping that somebody else will remember it and maybe know the cartoonist and a link to the picture.

Anyway, it's of a WW III survivor stumbling through a field of rubble, carrying a small portable TV with the power cord held out before him; looking for a socket. Great shell-shocked eyes.

I've often imagined the scene at the La 'Complex' after the raids have begun; after Davey and Co. have either bugged out or been apprehended; after the leadership is gone and the 'bulletins' from 'uplines' suddenly stop.

And, I've imagined the Sea Org and Staff, wandering the streets outside of the Complex with a similar look.

Hopefully there will be people to help them.

Zinj
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
:goodposting:

I don't know how to explain this easily, but ...

When you are a basically good, sane person, you think that others around you can be handled the way you can be handled. That if you communicate what you feel, the other person will "get it" and that they will change.

Women who live with abusive men are great examples of this. I have read a lot of material about abusive relationships, and the one thing that I clearly got from what I've read is that you have to think of an abuser's mind as being hardwired totally differently than yours is.

They only feel power from making another powerless, unlike the way a sane person feels powerful. They deliberately gain the trust of another person for the sole purpose of betraying that trust. Their whole mental pattern is different than a "good person's". Their feelings of self worth come totally from dominating and manipulating another person.

Attempting to reason with a person who is "hardwired" to think like this is useless. They don't respond to what a sane person responds to.

You have to really "get" this. You cannot handle a person like this with reason. With communication. With counselling. With anything.

I know someone where I work who has an abusive boyfriend. She has attempted for years to "change" him. She has talked with him and reasoned with him for hours on end. She has dragged him into relationship counselling many times. He was ordered to "Anger Management" classes after one incident by the courts.

This has been going on for years. Has it made one bit of difference?

Hell, no.

It's very hard when you realize that you have a person like this who influences your life - whether it be a boyfriend or husband, a boss, or a cult leader - to really understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that person's behavior. Nothing.

Like Lee said, there's a part of the person that is missing.

Why do certain people have that missing piece? Who knows?

It really doesn't matter why it is. It just matters that it is, and that you recognize it when you see it.

I read something once that made a lot of sense to me.

"With some people, all you can do is just get out of the way."

Thanks, I just sent this on to a friend in an abusive relationship. :)
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
wot she said...

great post lulu

:goodposting:

I don't know how to explain this easily, but ...

When you are a basically good, sane person, you think that others around you can be handled the way you can be handled. That if you communicate what you feel, the other person will "get it" and that they will change.

Women who live with abusive men are great examples of this. I have read a lot of material about abusive relationships, and the one thing that I clearly got from what I've read is that you have to think of an abuser's mind as being hardwired totally differently than yours is.

They only feel power from making another powerless, unlike the way a sane person feels powerful. They deliberately gain the trust of another person for the sole purpose of betraying that trust. Their whole mental pattern is different than a "good person's". Their feelings of self worth come totally from dominating and manipulating another person.

Attempting to reason with a person who is "hardwired" to think like this is useless. They don't respond to what a sane person responds to.

You have to really "get" this. You cannot handle a person like this with reason. With communication. With counselling. With anything.

I know someone where I work who has an abusive boyfriend. She has attempted for years to "change" him. She has talked with him and reasoned with him for hours on end. She has dragged him into relationship counselling many times. He was ordered to "Anger Management" classes after one incident by the courts.

This has been going on for years. Has it made one bit of difference?

Hell, no.

It's very hard when you realize that you have a person like this who influences your life - whether it be a boyfriend or husband, a boss, or a cult leader - to really understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that person's behavior. Nothing.

Like Lee said, there's a part of the person that is missing.

Why do certain people have that missing piece? Who knows?

It really doesn't matter why it is. It just matters that it is, and that you recognize it when you see it.

I read something once that made a lot of sense to me.

"With some people, all you can do is just get out of the way."
 

suzicue

Patron
I'll just chime in here. I agree with the posts above by Lulubelle and LBV
regarding dm and his dominion over the poor folks still at the int base. I
speak from my own experience. When you have commited yourself
to the whole s.o. mindset and viewpoint, you tend to believe that dm has
inside knowledge and a "lack of reasonableness" that makes his take on
things superior to your own. So when you are at the receipt end of some
abusive action, you tend to feel *you* had it wrong, not dm. Even if the scene seems absolutely bananas, you tend to soul-search on how you could
be so off the rails.

As to lrh's sci fi writing, Mission Earth, to me, is like a poor x-rated comic
book, albeit a long one. R. Crumb would have been much better at it.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
As to lrh's sci fi writing, Mission Earth, to me, is like a poor x-rated comic
book, albeit a long one. R. Crumb would have been much better at it.

Crumb actually *likes* 'meat bodies', although, I suspect he'd be suspicious of 'thetans' running them...

Zinj
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I'll just chime in here. I agree with the posts above by Lulubelle and LBV
regarding dm and his dominion over the poor folks still at the int base. I
speak from my own experience.

Welcome, suziecue.

I'm on the east coast too.

Sort of. :)

Paul
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Can We Ever Be Friends

Well, while we wait for that reply, I can tell a small DM tale for you chilluns, something that someone just reminded me of.

In around 2003, after his latest offload fest during which 150 people were offloaded from the Int Base, DM started to feel those natural responses that any person would get from committing such a sizable overt, but since he cannot spot himself as the source of the problem -- and it was not vanishing -- he came to the obvious conclusion that the ENTIRE Int Base is suppressive as a group against him, and that he should disconnect from it for once and for all.

Putting aside such insignificant details as LRH tech on the matter, DM one day says he's had it, calls up Jenny DeVocht (then CO CMOI) and tells her he is disconnecting from the entire Int Base, he is never coming back to the base again, never issuing another order; he never wants to have anything to do with anyone on the base again. In the same, he gives the Base a program of sorts to handle this SP/PTS situation.

Can any of you think with this?! Chairman of the Board RTC disconnects from the entire Int Base on the basis that he is PTS to us?!?!

As part of this program he orders (since he is COB RTC and is at cause over the situation) the entire Base to listen to the "Can We Ever Be Friends" tape, as in handling the antagonistic element!

So there we were, having an all-Base tape play of "Can We Ever Be Friends." It was so absurd, surreal, weird and twisted as to escape all reason, if anyone wants my opinion of it.

At that point you can really only ask yourself "what wall?"

(The next day he changed his mind, DA'd the briefing by Jenny DeVocht as "unauthorized," and resumed giving orders to the base)
 
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Bea Kiddo

Crusader
THIS GUY IS FUCKING INSANE. He is a total nut. I can't believe it. I am so embarrassed that I ever worked for or respected someone who treats people like this. Its really gross.

What an ass.

Him and TC will be the only ones left in their stupid little universe.
 
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