Scientology security kills man with sword

[NonScio]

Imagine causing a flap in the Vatican with a couple of swords and see how many guns you have in your face in short order.
It is normal for any security guard to have a gun. Standard tool of that hat. No issue there.

I’d have to say that if someone was waving swords around in my vicinity with the intent to harm, I wouldn’t be trying to reason with them tone 40 or otherwise, nor waiting around to find out if he was going to stick it in my face, or my colleagues before acting on it.
Emerging Evidence points to some nutter trying to hurt people. Regardless of my thoughts toward scientology, I do not condone that sort of dangerous behavior from anyone to anyone. It appears that the security guard was acting in self defense to protect not just him, but others as well.

I agree with Kha Kahn in regards to his comments about things being turned onto the critics if they see a “window”. We all know how good the organization is at manipulating situations to its advantage.

As an Ex I do not condone life threatening actions by anyone towards members of the organization or anyone else, regardless of whatever this sword wielders “beef” may or may not be.

Well, the fact is The Vatican is a sovereign nation...the Pope is
the equivalent of a Prime Minister or Head of State. The
Swiss Guards is a highly disciplined military unit. No trigger
happy "rent-a-cops" to be found among the Swiss Guards.
You might, as you say, see alot of guns waving in your
face if you drew a sword in the Vatican...they may draw
the guns, but their first reaction would not be to shoot you dead.

Scientology "celebrity center" is no Vatican by a long shot.

Scientology may try to spin this their way...but I say the public's
reaction will be overwhelmingly negative towards scientology.
It's another nail in their coffin...too bad it cost a life to
drive that nail.

 

[alex]

the Church of Scientolgy will tarnish the victim's reputation, just so they can say anyone who attacks Scientology must be crazy

anyone who attacks armed guards with 2 swords IS crazy.

In my opinion.

 

[Björkist]

anyone who attacks armed guards with 2 swords IS crazy.

In my opinion.

Hear ye, hear ye...


------------

Could it have been this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MauW2wx9Kg

He has a couple of more CofS "pranks" on his page.

 

[Kha Khan]

Is this your opinion or what you think will be put forward?

That is what:
(a) I believe they believe;
(b) what they will put forward; and
(c) what the majority of the public will believe.

 

[uniquemand]

I'll be interested to find out if the guy is found to have been a contributor to any forums that will be on the Church's "usual suspects" line-up.

BTW, Alex, I wonder if the rhetoric preached in the Church about wogs led to the guards shooting him. (An equal intellectual level to your comment, which is to say...)

psycho killer qu'est-ce que c'est.

 

[alex]

quite a stretch there, alex

Well consider that anon protests with signs saying scientology kills and that they enslave people.

A disturbed individual sees this and it feeds his delusions....

I had a friend who was paranoid schitzophenic, and he went off on all kinds of tangents, finally getting arrested for illegal firearms, luckily before anyone got hurt...

Imagine yourself barely in touch with the common reality, having seen V for Vendeta and then seeing a bunch of similarly masked protesters saying scientology kills....and you used to be a scientologist and had issues....

Can you see the possibility?

Not saying thats what happened, but that what springs to my scilon mind.

 

[alex]

I'll be interested to find out if the guy is found to have been a contributor to any forums that will be on the Church's "usual suspects" line-up.

BTW, Alex, I wonder if the rhetoric preached in the Church about wogs led to the guards shooting him. (An equal intellectual level to your comment, which is to say...)

psycho killer qu'est-ce que c'est.

Its my understanding that the guards were not scientologists....

 

[Lohan2008]

alex gtfo

alex, previous post/s pointed out that guards are former LAPD

 

[Pascal]

Clear the planet, one bullet at a time.

It will be fun to see how the CoS spins this with public. Maybe Alex can snitch.

See, with these idiots when something bad happens to you, it's your fault. But when something bad happens to the CoS it's because they are "upstat" and "clearing the planet" and the "SP" environment is reacting to this "holy" expantion by committing evil deeds on them.

Thing is the space of CC Int is not protected by OTs and CoS is pulling in insane people. Hmmm... CoS won't touch insane people... What you don't take responsability for kicks you in the teeth... Who said that again? A certain redhead with a fancy French first name he never used maybe?

This event just shows how the "emperor" is naked. DM's church is a fraud.

The aims of Scientology doesn't contemplate shooting psychos.

Then again DM's church has no credibility to begin with. It's just deeper in the red.

 

[uniquemand]

alex, previous post/s pointed out that guards are former LAPD

Its my understanding that the guards were not scientologists....

There's no reason a police officer couldn't have been a scientologist.

 

[alex]

There's no reason a police officer couldn't have been a scientologist.

Yes many of them are, in fact in the lapd its a pretty high percentage from what I've heard....80-90 percent if I am not mistaken.

We have a lot of laughs taking about the anon behind the scenes...

 

[NonScio]

Further thoughts on comparison to armed guards at the Vatican.

Again, the Vatican is a sovereign nation as well as the center
of the Roman Catholic Church.

They may have a force of armed guards there...but have you ever
seen such at any other catholic church in the world?
At any protestant church?
I've been to a number of famous cathedrals in England and Europe; never noticed any armed guards "protecting" the place.
I toured the Church at Assis in Italy last year...only "guards"
there were some Franciscan Monks sheparding the tourists through
and admonishing anyone carrying a camera to put it away because
no pictures were allowed inside. I rather doubt they were carrying
Uzi submachine guns under their robes.

The Church of St. Stephan in Budapest is a virtual
Hungarian National Shrine...no armed guards apparant there either.

Notre Dame in Paris...no guards...Cathedral at Cologne...no guards.

"Church of Scientology Celebrity Center" in LA...armed guards.

If any of these or other churches do actually have secret armed guards..
has anyone ever heard of them shooting anyone dead?

 

[Free to shine]

That is what:
(a) I believe they believe;
(b) what they will put forward; and
(c) what the majority of the public will believe.

I think if it's an ex then it reinforces the fact that something is seriously wrong with such a "church". It certainly won't help win them new recruits, no matter which story is pushed. IMO.

 

[Kha Khan]

Well consider that anon protests with signs saying scientology kills and that they enslave people.

A disturbed individual sees this and it feeds his delusions....

I had a friend who was paranoid schitzophenic, and he went off on all kinds of tangents, finally getting arrested for illegal firearms, luckily before anyone got hurt...

Imagine yourself barely in touch with the common reality, having seen V for Vendeta and then seeing a bunch of similarly masked protesters saying scientology kills....and you used to be a scientologist and had issues....

Can you see the possibility?

Not saying thats what happened, but that what springs to my scilon mind.

Nice red herring, Alex. In the United States, at least, we do not restrict speech based on the effect it may have on the most deranged and mentally ill members of society.

The rule is not that we cannot say anything critical about anyone or anything else, no matter how deserving it may be of criticism (like the CO$) because, after all, some deranged loon might weave that into their delusional fantasy act then act violently.

You, of course, would welcome that rule. As long as you were the sole determiner of when it was applied. LRH ranting delusionally about evil psychs? No problem. The COS preaching the inferiority of Wogs and DBs? Fine. The "Church" spouting discriminatory and hateful bile about "1.1" covertly hostile homosexuals? No problem.

And should a Scientologist, or someone else, act violently after ingesting such evil crap about "psychs," or "Wogs," or "DBs," or "'1.1' covertly hostile homosexuals?" Oh, then you would be a great proponent of free speech, and argue that the sad individual acted on his own determinism.

Or desperately hunt for some indication that the person sometime, somewhere, saw an evil psych, or better yet received some minimum amount of psychiatric medication.

 

[Lovesnightsky]

I think if it's an ex then it reinforces the fact that something is seriously wrong with such a "church". It certainly won't help win them new recruits, no matter which story is pushed. IMO.

exactly. If he had been a member of the public, then yeah, but he's been fucked over by the church, his mind messed up and god knows what else.

 

[Pascal]

No-responsability

Well consider that anon protests with signs saying scientology kills and that they enslave people.

A disturbed individual sees this and it feeds his delusions....

I had a friend who was paranoid schitzophenic, and he went off on all kinds of tangents, finally getting arrested for illegal firearms, luckily before anyone got hurt...

Imagine yourself barely in touch with the common reality, having seen V for Vendeta and then seeing a bunch of similarly masked protesters saying scientology kills....and you used to be a scientologist and had issues....

Can you see the possibility?

Not saying thats what happened, but that what springs to my scilon mind.

Blame it on Anon? Is that how you'll sleep tonight and wake up a loyal member of CoS mañana in the glory of status quo?

That guy was an ex-scientologist most probably. Anon who are a bunch of nerds don't inspire anyone buffed with tatoos, rich enough to drive a convertible and buy fancy swords into pulling a stunt like that Alex.

Come on, you wanna go OT or what? Turn on your lights sweetie.

They should have tazed him or use pepper spray.

Or shoot him in the leg.

I can't wait for the details!

 

[Free to shine]

We have a lot of laughs taking about the anon behind the scenes...

Who is "we"?

 

[uniquemand]

Well consider that anon protests with signs saying scientology kills and that they enslave people.

A disturbed individual sees this and it feeds his delusions....

I had a friend who was paranoid schitzophenic, and he went off on all kinds of tangents, finally getting arrested for illegal firearms, luckily before anyone got hurt...

Imagine yourself barely in touch with the common reality, having seen V for Vendeta and then seeing a bunch of similarly masked protesters saying scientology kills....and you used to be a scientologist and had issues....

Can you see the possibility?

Not saying thats what happened, but that what springs to my scilon mind.

1) Scientology doesn't kill, but people have died who are connected to scientology, many of them suicides. If people want to say this is a direct effect of Scientology, that is their right. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to say that, although I think it's ignorant for people to say.

2) Scientology does try to dominate people into accepting their purposes and plans, but this doesn't fit the classic definition of slavery, where a person is made to work for no recompense, and kept under guard. The exception to this is possibly at Gold, or a few other remote "bases". If this could be proven to occur, slavery is illegal, and the government would have to act to stop the slavery. However, if the people claim they are WILLING to VOLUNTEER to work under those conditions, well, at a certain point you have to just stand back and say: you are an adult. You have chosen your lot in life. You could leave. Yes, there would probably be a price. If you choose to live a life you don't want because you don't want to pay a price, well, that's your choice.

That said, people have a right to protest, and it is not their responsibility to stop nut-jobs from overstepping the the law, that's the job of the police.

 

[uniquemand]

Yes many of them are, in fact in the lapd its a pretty high percentage from what I've heard....80-90 percent if I am not mistaken.

We have a lot of laughs taking about the anon behind the scenes...

I'm sure you are mistaken. 90% of any population isn't silly enough to fall for LRH. I was, you were, we all here were, but we are hardly 90% of the population.

 

[alex]

Nice red herring, Alex. In the United States, at least, we do not restrict speech based on the effect it may have on the most deranged and mentally ill members of society.

The rule is not that we cannot say anything critical about anyone or anything else, no matter how deserving it may be of criticism (like the CO$) because, after all, some deranged loon might weave that into their delusional fantasy act then act violently.

No, and I wouldnt want that to be the rule. I believe in much freer speech that the anon do by their own actions on their forums. I personally moderate my speech in situations where I believe I should, but would insist you are free to chose not to.

If we were to lower the limit on speech to what the deranged could deal with, we would be mute.

I am not advocating restricting speech, but simply suggesting a scenario...

You, of course, would welcome that rule. As long as you were the sole determiner of when it was applied. LRH ranting delusionally about evil psychs? No problem. The COS preaching the inferiority of Wogs and DBs? Fine. The "Church" spouting discriminatory and hateful bile about "1.1" covertly hostile homosexuals? No problem.

And should a Scientologist, or someone else, act violently after ingesting such evil crap about "psychs," or "Wogs," or "DBs," or "'1.1' covertly hostile homosexuals?" Oh, then you would be a great proponent of free speech, and argue that the sad individual acted on his own determinism.

Even the insane act on their own determinism in my opinion. Sadly their determinism has some kinks in it.

Or desperately hunt for some indication that the person sometime, somewhere, saw an evil psych, or better yet received some minimum amount of psychiatric medication.

Blame is seldom a solution. Understanding is.