The highest OT level

[Ulduz]

Majority of the ex-Scientologists and Scientologists for some reason believe that LRH manufactured fifteen OT levels -- that would make OT 15 the highest level. But, to my knowledge, there are no official documents stating the number of OT levels. I wonder where this figure, 15, came from.
My own explanation is that LRH’s thetan contacted his followers after his death to reveal to them that OT 15 is the final stage.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

No. Years before he died- can't remember where- he said there were about 15 unreleased ones that he'd created.

 

[Captain Koolaid]

Take a look at the grade chart, it's all there. However it will take a few years before the remaining levels are revealed. On the other hand, it might not take too long before some Indie opinion leader will present the first cleared theta clear.

Welcome to ESMB

 

[uniquemand]

It comes from the Grade Chart.

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

Note the highest OT Level listed.

 

[Rene Descartes]

Majority of the ex-Scientologists and Scientologists for some reason believe that LRH manufactured fifteen OT levels -- that would make OT 15 the highest level. But, to my knowledge, there are no official documents stating the number of OT levels. I wonder where this figure, 15, came from.
My own explanation is that LRH’s thetan contacted his followers after his death to reveal to them that OT 15 is the final stage.

Although the thetan is supposedly capable of recalling every thing on the time track that has been perceived I can only state what I think I "recall" and that is bfore LRH had succumbed to the rigors and rancors of what the SPs had inflicted upon him I have a feint recollection of having seen the grade chart with OT15 on it.

Something about Orders of Magnitude or some such.

Orders of Magnitude.

Now that is big.

Real big.

Maybe even bigger than real big.

We are talking magnitudinous here.

Rd00

 

[Winston Smith]

No. Years before he died- can't remember where- he said there were about 15 unreleased ones that he'd created.

Even in his drug enduced stupor the old con man was dreaming up new hooks for his marks. Pathetic.

 

[Dulloldfart]

No. Years before he died- can't remember where- he said there were about 15 unreleased ones that he'd created.

HCOB 30 Jul 73 Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials:

Any difficulties people were having with going Clear were handled in the mid ‘60s and OT levels as they exist in Advanced Orgs were completed by ‘68. There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s full attainment of OT VI & VII.​

That's what he said and when he said it. Doesn't mean it contains even one iota of truth, but there's the dox. Er, doc.

Paul

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

HCOB 30 Jul 73 Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials:

Any difficulties people were having with going Clear were handled in the mid ‘60s and OT levels as they exist in Advanced Orgs were completed by ‘68. There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s full attainment of OT VI & VII.​

Of course that was 15 levels above the OLD OTVII. NOTs didn't come along until 1978 which either means there should be up to OT26 (OTXXVI) available or those other levels gave way to the new Bridge "only" up to OTXV.

The RON's org Bridge goes up to OT40, but just before OT17 is Caselessness.

 

[GoNuclear]

The unified field theory Einstein version of it all has it all going around in a circle, such that once you reach the ultimate OT level, the next step is SP.

Pete

 

[Dulloldfart]

The unified field theory Einstein version of it all has it all going around in a circle, such that once you reach the ultimate OT level, the next step is SP.

Pete

The Devious Dwarf does too, so that after OT VIII you do Objectives.

As I wrote before, he's managed to reverse it all, so that you take an OT VIII and run him on Grades and Objectives, have him study basic books, then finally he's out of Scientology.

Paul

 

[smartone]

Majority of the ex-Scientologists and Scientologists for some reason believe that LRH manufactured fifteen OT levels -- that would make OT 15 the highest level. But, to my knowledge, there are no official documents stating the number of OT levels. I wonder where this figure, 15, came from.
My own explanation is that LRH’s thetan contacted his followers after his death to reveal to them that OT 15 is the final stage.

Welcome Ulduz!

I thought LRH mentioned it when he released OTVIII.

 

[smartone]

The Devious Dwarf does too, so that after OT VIII you do Objectives.

As I wrote before, he's managed to reverse it all, so that you take an OT VIII and run him on Grades and Objectives, have him study basic books, then finally he's out of Scientology.

Paul

I remember I was C/Sed to do Objectives while I was mid-NED.

I refused.

One more Objectives and I would be

We continued with NED.

 

[Winston Smith]

Of course that was 15 levels above the OLD OTVII. NOTs didn't come along until 1978 which either means there should be up to OT26 (OTXXVI) available or those other levels gave way to the new Bridge "only" up to OTXV.

The RON's org Bridge goes up to OT40, but just before OT17 is Caselessness.

You actually believe this shit? (Not trying to start a fight, just curious)

 

[Terril park]

The Devious Dwarf does too, so that after OT VIII you do Objectives.

As I wrote before, he's managed to reverse it all, so that you take an OT VIII and run him on Grades and Objectives, have him study basic books, then finally he's out of Scientology.

Paul

Don't think thats quite the way Hubbard visualised " Milestone 1".

 

[FoTi]

Don't think thats quite the way Hubbard visualised " Milestone 1".

Milestone 1 = LRH being in total control and the richest dude on the planet?

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

You actually believe this shit? (Not trying to start a fight, just curious)

I find I am getting more tolerant of the viewpoint of others, especially when they seem “batshit crazy”. The point is that I had read stuff by Captain Bill before I had started OTIII and it was totally outside my reality – unreal – and apparently paranoid ravings. Even our own DOF has posted stuff which was well over-the-top – unreal - totally what-the-fuck. http://www.freewebs.com/paulsr3x/TelepathicMetering.htm

And now, having started on solo NOTs, I find myself applying a bit of info from the Excalibur pack and having it work. This is a sobering feeling. It’s like “Well you arrogant prick, somebody else knows more than you AGAIN. When are you going to realise you don’t know everything and just because stuff is outside your pathetic reality level doesn’t mean to say it is wrong.”

So I find myself strangely drawn to this “batshit crazy” stuff, not because of belief, but because (unfortunately) it seems to have some workability to it. Now it is obviously true that this stuff is entirely subjective. Is it delusional or factual? My only take on that is – well it makes me feel “better” session by session, so for me it is real to that extent.

It has always been true that the next step on the Bridge is the one that is the most real for the person. Going too many steps ahead is problematic. Try pulling O/Ws from someone who won’t even communicate with you and that is difficult. So I totally get it when somebody who hasn’t even done the Grades reads OTIII and says its nuts. Hell, even R6EW is a bizarre process – but it’s great fun when you get started on it and run it. It’s not something you can intellectually understand by just reading about it.

Solo auditing is in any case difficult for the unprepared because it is done “telepathically”. What you think is important. Imagine auditing a pc and you start the session with the R-factor “Well I know you aren’t really there, you are just a figment of my imagination, but I am going to do this process anyway, even though I know it can’t possibly work because it’s so bloody unbelievable.” Obviously you wouldn’t have much success. Well people evidently try to run OT levels in this frame of mind and then wonder why they don’t succeed!

To answer your original question - do I actually believe in this shit. Unfortunately yes. I’m a professional engineer. When you are told to do this that and the other in order to achieve result X, and you follow the steps and achieve the result X, you then “believe”. It is as simple as that. (In this case the result X is a sub-product – a milestone – not some complete EP like Cleared Theta Clear.)

 

[Veda]

-snip-

So I totally get it when somebody who hasn’t even done the Grades reads OTIII and says its nuts.

-snip-

Wow. That's an advertisement for never going near any part of Scientology!

However, it's not quite that bad. When I was auditing outside the CofS, I audited people on the Grades and let them know that (other than old Power Processing, and a some re-cycled Rosicrucian stuff that appears in old OT 6), the so called "upper levels" were Hubbard's labyrinth - a mind trap. I suggested other activities from rock climbing to Yoga to Zen to just plain Living, and told them they were, for all practical purposes, DONE with Scientology.

These people are doing fine now, whereas the Scientology true believers, forever searching for the answers in Hubbard's and - God help us - Captain Bill's word spew, are not doing so well.

Good luck on your ride on the "LRH Bridge." Is it "real" to you yet that you'll be meeting Ron at the end of the "Bridge" and, if you truly crossed it, he'll give you a "Well Done"?

Or are you not yet at an awareness level high enough for that to be "real"?

 

[Veda]

Milestone 1 = LRH being in total control and the richest dude on the planet?

Scientology true believers love to refer to "Milestone 1," especially when attempting to "handle" critics of Scientology. It's supposed to show that Hubbard really was interested in others' freedom and not in establishing Scientology as a monument to his giant ego. That the oft quoted words were Hubbard playing with the heads of his starry-eyed followers in classic con man style escapes them. Or does it? Are these true believers (who, of course, also "think for themselves," just as Ron told them to) also playing with our heads? After all, we are at a lower awareness level and in need of "handling"...

 

[Jachs]

Majority of the ex-Scientologists and Scientologists for some reason believe that LRH manufactured fifteen OT levels -- that would make OT 15 the highest level. But, to my knowledge, there are no official documents stating the number of OT levels. I wonder where this figure, 15, came from.
My own explanation is that LRH’s thetan contacted his followers after his death to reveal to them that OT 15 is the final stage.

The piece of paper that is called the cookie cut bridge has ot XV scribed on it( but many individuals who were once in the know and have departed say there isnt even an OT9, the Ls hard sell tape promotes (with tom cruise couch jumping high 5s) a Myth/ "mystery sandwich" that the Ls come from research into ot XXII or 22 for us 180 pound Tbones. I doubt the kings of bullshit rtc would destroy a myth in their favor.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

Good luck on your ride on the "LRH Bridge." Is it "real" to you yet that you'll be meeting Ron at the end of the "Bridge" and, if you truly crossed it, he'll give you a "Well Done"?

Or are you not yet at an awareness level high enough for that to be "real"?

No, I don't expect to meet LRH or Capt Bill further up the Bridge. I personally think that LRH's own case was in a horrible state having been run over out-Int, out-Lists, with a heavy drug history, and never having an auditor with "altitude" over his case, and so forth.

Lots of people want to go up, but many have different ideas of how to achieve that. Some disagree that "up" is possible. Some think that "up" is actually "down"; and of course that "down" is actually "up". Who should impose their will and say that only their way is correct. Certainly not me.