The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Veda]

The following is from Michael Moore of Australia. It is absolutely brilliant!


Spiritual Counseling Declaration
All students and recipients of Spiritual Counseling should carefully read the following points and sign the declaration below. This declaration should be witnessed by a notary.

I swear I am undertaking spiritual counseling with a desire to improve myself and for no other reason.

I acknowledge and fully realize that any services offered by the spiritual guidance counselor are not the approved Services of Scientology and Dianetics nor those offered by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated or affiliated with, the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups and in fact disavow any connection with that or any related organization.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated with any psychological, psychiatric or governmental consulting services or organisation and does not offer any of the services rendered by any of these organisations.

I fully understand and realize that by undertaking this spiritual counseling I may be refused any further services by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the services of spiritual counseling and/or training I will undertake are based on the ideas of various philosophers and thinkers, including Lafayette Ron Hubbard.

No promises or guarantees are made regarding any spiritual counseling given and no results are implied or guaranteed. The counseling being offered and received is of a spiritual nature only and everything is done on a "best effort basis."

Any payment agreed upon and made is solely for compensation for the time of the spiritual guidance counselor and not for any services or materials rendered.

Any and all payments made to the spiritual guidance counselor are non refundable as it is a payment for the time of the practitioner and not for any services rendered.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, for the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or any of its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, of any psychological or psychiatric organisation or association and have no connection with any such group under any guise.

I swear that I have either departed from the Church of Scientology of my own volition if I was a member, or have no intention to be a member if! was not ever a member.

I swear I am seeking spiritual counseling for my own benefit and not for the benefit of others.

I swear I am not seeking any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, psychology or psychiatry or any of the related companies, associations or groups of such.
I acknowledge that the spiritual guidance counselor does not deliver any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, but provides individual spiritual guidance only on a hourly basis.

I swear I am not here to seek any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition and will not be receiving any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition. If it is found that I am suffering from any physical or mental illness, the practitioner reserves the right to refuse spiritual counseling at his or her discretion.

I swear I am not under any psychiatric or medical therapy or treatment and am not taking any medical or other drugs.

I acknowledge and agree that I can be refused spiritual counseling if the practitioner believes they cannot honestly provide it

I, the undersigned, declare that I fully understand and agree to all of the points above.

Declared. date
-------
Print your name date _

Notarized. date
-------
Stamp or seal of notarizer here:

Nothing brilliant about it. It's a load of tosh.

So much for the so called "senior policy" of "We always deliver what we promise," and the "Bridge Classification, Gradation and Awareness Chart" with "end result" and "ability gained." The "Church of Scientology" has a similar form that also contradicts its "senior policy" of "always delivering what is promised." http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=303950&postcount=61

In any event, what does it matter? I thought this chap was a lone nut, or at least a loner not taken seriously, and his views did not reflect those of the other more rational and sensible Scientology Freezoners. Am I mistaken? Maybe I went by a misunderstood word... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18147

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Nothing brilliant about it. It's a load of tosh.

Leon,

this is not the two word thread, and I am not even remotely offendable.

Give us at least 25 words or a paragraph or two on what you think about this.

Supporting evidence is a plus.

Examples and metaphors even better.

Use of double negatives and antonyms gets bonus points.

Colored pictures with circles and arrows --- high props

Tying OSA, the illuminati, the Masons, the Knights Templar, Communist conspiracies, and secret cabals to the author's intent will bring down the post for all time's sake.

but seriously, what are your criticisms?

 

[lkwdblds]

I can't find the key passage.

So much for the so called "senior policy" of "We always deliver what we promise," and the "Bridge Classification, Gradation and Awareness Chart" with "end result" and "ability gained." The "Church of Scientology" has a similar form that also contradicts its "senior policy" of "always delivering what is promised." http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=303950&postcount=61

In any event, what does it matter? I thought this chap was a lone nut, or at least a loner not taken seriously, and his views did not reflect those of the other more rational and sensible Scientology Freezoners. Am I mistaken? Maybe I went by a misunderstood word... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18147

Could you help me out. I see in Michael Moore's declaration the spot where it states there are no promises of results, etc. but I looked all through Helluva Hoax's post and various references and I can't find where the C of S does the same thing and openly contradicts their "senior policy" Could you please help me isolate where this takes place.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

The following is from Michael Moorehead of Australia. It is absolutely brilliant!


Spiritual Counseling Declaration
All students and recipients of Spiritual Counseling should carefully read the following points and sign the declaration below. This declaration should be witnessed by a notary.

I swear I am undertaking spiritual counseling with a desire to improve myself and for no other reason.

I acknowledge and fully realize that any services offered by the spiritual guidance counselor are not the approved Services of Scientology and Dianetics nor those offered by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated or affiliated with, the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups and in fact disavow any connection with that or any related organization.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated with any psychological, psychiatric or governmental consulting services or organisation and does not offer any of the services rendered by any of these organisations.

I fully understand and realize that by undertaking this spiritual counseling I may be refused any further services by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the services of spiritual counseling and/or training I will undertake are based on the ideas of various philosophers and thinkers, including Lafayette Ron Hubbard.

No promises or guarantees are made regarding any spiritual counseling given and no results are implied or guaranteed. The counseling being offered and received is of a spiritual nature only and everything is done on a "best effort basis."

Any payment agreed upon and made is solely for compensation for the time of the spiritual guidance counselor and not for any services or materials rendered.

Any and all payments made to the spiritual guidance counselor are non refundable as it is a payment for the time of the practitioner and not for any services rendered.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, for the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or any of its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, of any psychological or psychiatric organisation or association and have no connection with any such group under any guise.

I swear that I have either departed from the Church of Scientology of my own volition if I was a member, or have no intention to be a member if! was not ever a member.

I swear I am seeking spiritual counseling for my own benefit and not for the benefit of others.

I swear I am not seeking any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, psychology or psychiatry or any of the related companies, associations or groups of such.
I acknowledge that the spiritual guidance counselor does not deliver any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, but provides individual spiritual guidance only on a hourly basis.

I swear I am not here to seek any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition and will not be receiving any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition. If it is found that I am suffering from any physical or mental illness, the practitioner reserves the right to refuse spiritual counseling at his or her discretion.

I swear I am not under any psychiatric or medical therapy or treatment and am not taking any medical or other drugs.

I acknowledge and agree that I can be refused spiritual counseling if the practitioner believes they cannot honestly provide it

I, the undersigned, declare that I fully understand and agree to all of the points above.

Declared. date
-------
Print your name date _

Notarized. date
-------
Stamp or seal of notarizer here:

I would not and have not required that a person cease contact with CoS. Such a requirement commits the pc to never finishing Grade 0.

I would not reject anyone for the sole reason of having contact or counsel from a psychologist or psychiatrist.

But then I do not do implanting CoS style.

If an auditor and pc cannot come to mutual understanding and trust, sans any notarized attestation, they probably should not be working together.

 

[Winston Smith]

You should really consider the possibility of adopting a different metric paradigm. You have a marked tendency to attempt shoe horning too many things into your ear muffs.


Mark A. Baker

You should go fuck yourself.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

So much for the so called "senior policy" of "We always deliver what we promise," and the "Bridge Classification, Gradation and Awareness Chart" with "end result" and "ability gained." The "Church of Scientology" has a similar form that also contradicts its "senior policy" of "always delivering what is promised." http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=303950&postcount=61

In any event, what does it matter? I thought this chap was a lone nut, or at least a loner not taken seriously, and his views did not reflect those of the other more rational and sensible Scientology Freezoners. Am I mistaken? Maybe I went by a misunderstood word... http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18147

AFAIK Michael Moore is known in the "Standard Tech" community (which I am not a part of).

I'm not a member of the Republican or Democratic parties, but I find items of interest from them too.

The more I know about Scientology, the less I am a member of the Freezone.

nevertheless, I'm interested in their lives.

Scientology tech is rife with outrageous bragging by LRH, that I presume the standard tech community believes, hook line and sinker. This is a clever work around the fact that standard tech does not work 100% as promised.

As an auditor, who occasionally (average of a session or two a day by phone mainly) does a form of auditing, I've never asked for any contract, and I'm not concerned.

But, if I was someone like the Kreniks in Elma, WA doing Standard Tech, and broadly publicizing it, I'd be worried about plants from the Co$ coming in to fuck things up. I think this form is a good idea for people like that.

 

[FoTi]

The following is from Michael Moorehead of Australia. It is absolutely brilliant!


Spiritual Counseling Declaration
All students and recipients of Spiritual Counseling should carefully read the following points and sign the declaration below. This declaration should be witnessed by a notary.

I swear I am undertaking spiritual counseling with a desire to improve myself and for no other reason.

I acknowledge and fully realize that any services offered by the spiritual guidance counselor are not the approved Services of Scientology and Dianetics nor those offered by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated or affiliated with, the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups and in fact disavow any connection with that or any related organization.

I fully understand that the practitioner is neither endorsed by, or associated with any psychological, psychiatric or governmental consulting services or organisation and does not offer any of the services rendered by any of these organisations.

I fully understand and realize that by undertaking this spiritual counseling I may be refused any further services by the Church of Scientology International.

I fully understand that the services of spiritual counseling and/or training I will undertake are based on the ideas of various philosophers and thinkers, including Lafayette Ron Hubbard.

No promises or guarantees are made regarding any spiritual counseling given and no results are implied or guaranteed. The counseling being offered and received is of a spiritual nature only and everything is done on a "best effort basis."

Any payment agreed upon and made is solely for compensation for the time of the spiritual guidance counselor and not for any services or materials rendered.

Any and all payments made to the spiritual guidance counselor are non refundable as it is a payment for the time of the practitioner and not for any services rendered.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, for the corporate company known as the Church of Spiritual Technology or any of its companies and churches such as the Religious Technology Centre, Church of Scientology International, or any other of its affiliates, corporations management organizations or groups.

I swear, under penalty of perjury, that I am not an agent, now or will be in the future, of any psychological or psychiatric organisation or association and have no connection with any such group under any guise.

I swear that I have either departed from the Church of Scientology of my own volition if I was a member, or have no intention to be a member if! was not ever a member.

I swear I am seeking spiritual counseling for my own benefit and not for the benefit of others.

I swear I am not seeking any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, psychology or psychiatry or any of the related companies, associations or groups of such.
I acknowledge that the spiritual guidance counselor does not deliver any services as an alternative, competitive or otherwise, to services delivered by the Church of Scientology, but provides individual spiritual guidance only on a hourly basis.

I swear I am not here to seek any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition and will not be receiving any treatment or therapy for any physical or mental condition. If it is found that I am suffering from any physical or mental illness, the practitioner reserves the right to refuse spiritual counseling at his or her discretion.

I swear I am not under any psychiatric or medical therapy or treatment and am not taking any medical or other drugs.

I acknowledge and agree that I can be refused spiritual counseling if the practitioner believes they cannot honestly provide it

I, the undersigned, declare that I fully understand and agree to all of the points above.

Declared. date
-------
Print your name date _

Notarized. date
-------
Stamp or seal of notarizer here:

Thanks for this Carmelo.

 

[FoTi]

I would not and have not required that a person cease contact with CoS. Such a requirement commits the pc to never finishing Grade 0.

I would not reject anyone for the sole reason of having contact or counsel from a psychologist or psychiatrist.

But then I do not do implanting CoS style.

If an auditor and pc cannot come to mutual understanding and trust, sans any notarized attestation, they probably should not be working together.

This is good too.

 

[Leon]

Leon,

this is not the two word thread, and I am not even remotely offendable.

Give us at least 25 words or a paragraph or two on what you think about this.

Supporting evidence is a plus.

Examples and metaphors even better.

Use of double negatives and antonyms gets bonus points.

Colored pictures with circles and arrows --- high props

Tying OSA, the illuminati, the Masons, the Knights Templar, Communist conspiracies, and secret cabals to the author's intent will bring down the post for all time's sake.

but seriously, what are your criticisms?

My own "Senior Policy" has always been - in the CofS and elswhere - that I will use the best of what I know (including especially all my Scientology knowledge) to the best of my ability to produce the best results I can for my preclear.

I require no contracts of any kind. Just an agreement that the person wants to work with me and I want to work with him/her. [BTW I have at times rejected a person after the very first glance I gave him/her. If I don't want this person on my lines for whatever selfish, aberrated reason I may have then THAT"S IT. Bye bye. Go elsewhere.]

If that does not result in him/her being fully satisfied with having spent the money I charged him then he, without further ado, is entitled to his money back. All of it.

In all of my 40 years in Scientology and numerous thousands hours of auditing others I have never yet had anyone ask for money back. This being so, why should I require any notarised sworn declaration of bullshit from anyone which would protect me from the consequences of my own incompetence?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

You should go fuck yourself.

Thanks for the suggestion.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

A thousand points of light.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

MY, MY, MY

Thank you, Face, for your lovely essay about ass holes; but I am afraid ego is something different.

Ego has to do with "I", "Me" and "Mine." It addresses one's individuality at the spiritual level, one's identity at the mental level, and one's body at the physical level. When you say "my ass hole" then ego has more to do with "my" than with "ass hole."

Ego comes to attention more and more as it is given importance. Thus, self-importance is a notable characteristic of ego. I think, that characteristic came to my attention when I commented on it with respect to Roger. It is just what it is. It is neither to be despised nor to be admired. It simply needs to be recognized for what it is.

When one says, "I am too busy to answer your question," or "Your question is not important, and it is just a waste of time for me," then the ego stands out. The person is basically intimating that "I" am more important than your concern.

The reason that I jumped in here is because Roger has used the same device to avoid answering my questions. At that time it was not this Australian inquiry, but it was something else. One can always make up a reason when one does not want to answer question. I would prefer if one is sincere in one's communication.

Basically, ego has to do with "self." Everybody has self; so everybody has ego. But some do not care about it, and some give it too much importance. So, there are different ways for putting one's ego out there.

Some ways are pleasant and others may not be so pleasant. But, then, one's opinion figures a lot in it too.

In my opinion one should be sincere in one's communication and need not bring one's ego into it to show how important one is and how unimportant the other person's concern is.

.

Thanks, Vin, for your clarification re: “my" asshole. I thought the continual reference of “my, mine, etc.” was pretty clear but, hey, I’m not the best essayist in the world for sure.

So, in your view then, when Rog says he’s too busy then it’s his ego and when you’re offended or irritated it’s because of his ego…or because of your ego…or both? As I understand your clarification to me, “in my opinion” connotes an egoic phenomena, such as the statement, “In my opinion Rog hurt my feelers.”:confused2:

I think every being cares about “self”. Some are givers and some are takers. Takers are fakers and givers are livers. Fakers are haters and baiters, and givers are lovers and treasures...and only the truly accepting are the truly giving.

In my opinion you and Rog are givers.

Face

 

[RogerB]

Thanks, Vin, for your clarification re: “my" asshole. I thought the continual reference of “my, mine, etc.” was pretty clear but, hey, I’m not the best essayist in the world for sure.

So, in your view then, when Rog says he’s too busy then it’s his ego and when you’re offended or irritated it’s because of his ego…or because of your ego…or both? As I understand your clarification to me, “in my opinion” connotes an egoic phenomena, such as the statement, “In my opinion Rog hurt my feelers.”:confused2:

I think every being cares about “self”. Some are givers and some are takers. Takers are fakers and givers are livers. Fakers are haters and baiters, and givers are lovers and treasures...and only the truly accepting are the truly giving.

In my opinion you and Rog are givers.

Face

Well now . . . . there is a class act!

And highly entertaining.

R

 

[Ted]

"Go F*** Yourself"

Thanks for the suggestion.


Mark A. Baker

Seemed more like a command rather than a suggestion.

We'll need a full report so we can then determine if we want to put a stat on it or not. If it works out we'll put everyone on that product/stat.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Splashy, splashy!!!

Now I wanna go surfing! Lovely sparkly water!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

IMHO

My own "Senior Policy" has always been - in the CofS and elswhere - that I will use the best of what I know (including especially all my Scientology knowledge) to the best of my ability to produce the best results I can for my preclear.

I require no contracts of any kind. Just an agreement that the person wants to work with me and I want to work with him/her. [BTW I have at times rejected a person after the very first glance I gave him/her. If I don't want this person on my lines for whatever selfish, aberrated reason I may have then THAT"S IT. Bye bye. Go elsewhere.]

If that does not result in him/her being fully satisfied with having spent the money I charged him then he, without further ado, is entitled to his money back. All of it.

In all of my 40 years in Scientology and numerous thousands hours of auditing others I have never yet had anyone ask for money back. This being so,

why should I require any notarised sworn declaration of bullshit from anyone which would protect me from the consequences of my own incompetence?

Ah, this is the key to the matter!

I would also add that to me, such a document is designed to overwhelm a potential client. Not a good foundation for any therapeutic relationship, imho!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Magnificat!

Thanks, Vin, for your clarification re: “my" asshole. I thought the continual reference of “my, mine, etc.” was pretty clear but, hey, I’m not the best essayist in the world for sure.

So, in your view then, when Rog says he’s too busy then it’s his ego and when you’re offended or irritated it’s because of his ego…or because of your ego…or both? As I understand your clarification to me, “in my opinion” connotes an egoic phenomena, such as the statement, “In my opinion Rog hurt my feelers.”:confused2:

I think every being cares about “self”. Some are givers and some are takers. Takers are fakers and givers are livers. Fakers are haters and baiters, and givers are lovers and treasures...and only the truly accepting are the truly giving.

In my opinion you and Rog are givers.

Face

Facey, now THIS is brilliant! I knew there was a reason I liked you!

I may needlepoint this on a pillow or get a tattoo or something... Don't be surprised if it pops up somewhere!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Seemed more like a command rather than a suggestion.

We'll need a full report so we can then determine if we want to put a stat on it or not. If it works out we'll put everyone on that product/stat.

As a command it was a bit of a "flop".

I can't stop others from attempting it, but on the whole I wouldn't recommend it. (Except possibly in special cases.)


Mark A. Baker

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

You should go fuck yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15Spi_U66e0

 

[Leon]

Oh Ho! Now look at this LRH quote that Paul posted on the Study Tech-power of choice thread:

Sayeth L Ron Hubbard:

"Now, it's a sure test of a teacher whether he knows his stuff or not, the number of data which he insists on everyone assimilating without question. If he insists that a great number of data be assimilated without further analysis or question in any way, shape or form, we know this boy doesn't know his business. He's scared. Somehow or another he feels that nobody must be permitted to examine these data. So he's doing something else. He's doing something else.

"Now, educationally, it is absolutely necessary for the teacher to preserve the power of choice of the student over the data which he is taught. And if it is not in agreement with the experience of the student, and will not be found to be true in the environment of the student, he permits the student to examine this and say so, and operate accordingly. Only in this wise would you have anything used or useful."

Here-endeth the lesson.


Now would this have any application at all to Roger? and Knowledgism? and my questioning some of the data he presents?

Hmmmm.