Scientology is coming apart at the seams!

[Wants2Talk]

A new Chris Shelton video.
[video=youtube;BtpvcIsaB88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtpvcIsaB88[/video]

 

[eldritch cuckoo]

It was worth every [strike]calorie[/strike] er I mean, megabyte.
Especially like the ending. Paraphrased: "The scene is right before your eyes." I wonder to whom he might be talking to?
Although this video focuses on the current state of the organization, it is, just like many of his videos, a good introduction to the theme, in that it is easy to understand even if one doesn't know much at all about the "Church of Scientology".

 

[betskand]

A new Chris Shelton video.
[video=youtube;BtpvcIsaB88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtpvcIsaB88[/video]

Chris is a real treasure in the ex-Scilon community...and the community at large. His site, mncriticalthinker, is worth visiting frequently. As Eldritch points out below, this video is a good introduction to those who want to know more about the current situation of the Chorch.

 

[lotus]

I like what you do Chris!

Very very much professional and educational, for anyone interested in knowing much about [STRIKE]Church[/STRIKE] cult of $cientology!

The critical mind point of view is very much appreciated.

Quickness
(of onion peeling)
of unprecedented order of magnitude!
​

Fast flow apostate!​

Thank you!

 

[freethinker]

Chris says that Hubbard never approved of the IAS. Where does that come from? Because I have heard that he wrote the policy for it.

 

[Lone Star]

Great video Chris. Unfortunately I have to disagree at least a bit with something you said at the beginning regarding current members unable to avoid the PR disaster going on right now, and for the last several years.

I can tell you that the Scientologists that I still personally know are very committed in making sure that they never read, hear, or see anything that casts the cult in a bad light. If they do happen to "accidentally" hear or see it they quickly either turn it off or avert their eyes and ears the best they can. And going to a website with "black PR"? Forget about it. Not happening. The discipline they have in doing this is fucking amazing.

They still believe that this is all a suppressive attack that is being coordinated by the psychs and other SPs who are hell bent on destroying the CoS before all the Orgs go "Ideal". Oh yeah. They believe this shit with passion.

The last public Scientologists that I know of who left the cult in the Austin area were the Schicks. That was around 6 or so years ago. That's it. I've often joked that these fucking kool aid drinking, clubbed seals in Austin will do whatever the hell DM tells them to do. If he tells them to kill someone to help make the zone be ideal, they probably will. If he says to kill themselves and go off to Target 2 right now, they probably will. These fucking people are so goddamn gone it is unbelievable. I suspect that this is the case for the majority of the ones who are still in right now. I mean they still give shit loads of money to the IAS. That's dedication to insanity. Supporting a sociopath and they can't and won't see it.

As things go more and more badly for the cult I do think there is a possibility that this thing could "go Jonestown" in some way among those who are still in. Who knows how much more psychotically insane DM is going to get when the "walls start coming down" all around him. It's bad for him now. But it's not yet as bad as it's gonna get.

 

[Boojuum]

Chris's videos are just terrific.

 

[Gib]

Great video Chris. Unfortunately I have to disagree at least a bit with something you said at the beginning regarding current members unable to avoid the PR disaster going on right now, and for the last several years.

I can tell you that the Scientologists that I still personally know are very committed in making sure that they never read, hear, or see anything that casts the cult in a bad light. If they do happen to "accidentally" hear or see it they quickly either turn it off or avert their eyes and ears the best they can. And going to a website with "black PR"? Forget about it. Not happening. The discipline they have in doing this is fucking amazing.

They still believe that this is all a suppressive attack that is being coordinated by the psychs and other SPs who are hell bent on destroying the CoS before all the Orgs go "Ideal". Oh yeah. They believe this shit with passion.

The last public Scientologists that I know of who left the cult in the Austin area were the Schicks. That was around 6 or so years ago. That's it. I've often joked that these fucking kool aid drinking, clubbed seals in Austin will do whatever the hell DM tells them to do. If he tells them to kill someone to help make the zone be ideal, they probably will. If he says to kill themselves and go off to Target 2 right now, they probably will. These fucking people are so goddamn gone it is unbelievable. I suspect that this is the case for the majority of the ones who are still in right now. I mean they still give shit loads of money to the IAS. That's dedication to insanity. Supporting a sociopath and they can't and won't see it.

As things go more and more badly for the cult I do think there is a possibility that this thing could "go Jonestown" in some way among those who are still in. Who knows how much more psychotically insane DM is going to get when the "walls start coming down" all around him. It's bad for him now. But it's not yet as bad as it's gonna get.

and that's why there are some of us undergrounders trying to upload a virus (as debbie cook did, but not at the scale debbie cook did) (and only so astutely like, to those still in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGdoqBxqZuw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo

 

[Chris Shelton]

Chris says that Hubbard never approved of the IAS. Where does that come from? Because I have heard that he wrote the policy for it.

The information about the formation of the IAS came from Mike Rinder, Chuck Beatty and some other ex's who shall remain nameless by their choice who were around at Int Base at the time and verified Mike's data. Mike has said as much himself on his own blog.

 

[Chris Shelton]

Great video Chris. Unfortunately I have to disagree at least a bit with something you said at the beginning regarding current members unable to avoid the PR disaster going on right now, and for the last several years....

You are not wrong that there are rabid True Believers who are still in and who would fall on a sword if DM asked them to. Those kinds of people actually exist in every single cult in the world, which is one of the defining characteristics of cult belief and is what makes Scientology a cult.

However, there are people who are still in or who are "under the radar" who are trying to figure out how to get out. Some of these people or their spouses have contacted me by email for advice or direction on what to do. I've heard of others also contacting Karen, Tory, etc. What we do as outspoken critics is not just criticize the Church but give such people someone they can contact for help. And because some of them do reach out, I know that there are Scientologists who do watch our stuff. And learn and get out as a result. If I did not know this to be the case, I would not continue in my efforts.

I am also trying to prevent new public inflow into Scientology by educating the people out there who are curious about Scientology and google it. Some of them find my channel and I have all kinds of comments on my videos of support and thanks for what I'm doing from never-ins. So that part of my "strategy" is also working.

I may be an eternal optimist, but I believe that what we are doing is working in terms of waking up some who are still in. We are vastly assisted by the fact that Scientology's PR machine is a footbullet factory and they truly are their own worst enemy. This too wakes up some who are still in, as evidenced by stories of people who read the Freedom mags meant to dead agent Anderson Cooper, the "Posse of Lunatics" etc and instead were convinced that their own church was the one that was totally off the rails. It is hilarious to me that we tell them what they are doing wrong all over the blogs and even on television and yet still they continue to make the same PR mistakes over and over and over again.

I am endlessly frustrated by the True Believers who won't look. They are the worst off. It's a kind of Greek tragedy really. Like my ex-fiance and her entire family in Twin Cities. I have no hope that they are ever going to wake up. Knowing that is no fun and I feel your frustration about the same kinds of people in Texas. When good people that you truly love turn their backs on you for no other reason than you are speaking your mind, though, you also have to know that those people are not truly who you think they are. Real friendship and real love doesn't have those kinds of conditions and isn't bent or broken because some MAA demands disconnection.

I believe that we are going to see many more leaving of their own accord before the end of this year due to the tidal wave of "entheta" that is going to the hit the public airwaves. I don't think we are going to see the end of the Church as a body this year - that would be stupidly optimistic in the extreme - but we are going to see game-changing bad PR for Scientology and we are going to see more people coming to their senses as a result. It's inevitable that this organization is going to destroy itself.

 

[programmer_guy]

<snip>

It's inevitable that this organization is going to destroy itself.

IMO, that started in the 1980s with the infamous Mission Holder's Conference.
It already has destroyed itself from what it once was decades ago.

For example, I remember Temple Street ASHO course rooms (HPCSC & SHSBC) packed with students.
What is it NOW? What was it 10 years ago?

 

[Chris Shelton]

IMO, that started in the 1980s with the infamous Mission Holder's Conference.
It already has destroyed itself from what it once was decades ago.

For example, I remember Temple Street ASHO course rooms (HPCSC & SHSBC) packed with students. What is it NOW?

You are right. The Mission Holders Conference take-down was the overt "beginning of the end" because that is when Hubbard openly turned on his own followers and targeted them for "insurrection" and "mutiny" and whatnot and made a blatant money grab, destroying successful Scientology missions which were delivering hand-over-fist and which were more successful than the orgs.

However, I believe the actual seeds of destruction were sown in the mid-1960s when Hubbard wrote the ethics/justice policies, invented SP Doctrine and formed the Sea Org. He was off his rocker at that point and emeshed in paranoia which led to all the rest of the disasters through the 1970s.

 

[programmer_guy]

You are right. The Mission Holders Conference take-down was the overt "beginning of the end" because that is when Hubbard openly turned on his own followers and targeted them for "insurrection" and "mutiny" and whatnot and made a blatant money grab, destroying successful Scientology missions which were delivering hand-over-fist and which were more successful than the orgs.

However, I believe the actual seeds of destruction were sown in the mid-1960s when Hubbard wrote the ethics/justice policies, invented SP Doctrine and formed the Sea Org. He was off his rocker at that point and emeshed in paranoia which led to all the rest of the disasters through the 1970s.

The 1970s was a boom time for the CofS as far as increased involvement... numbers of people.
I am not sure what you mean by "disasters through the 1970s". :confused2:

 

[Chris Shelton]

The 1970s was a boom time for the CofS as far as increased involvement... numbers of people.
I am not sure what you mean by "disasters through the 1970s". :confused2:

Just off the top of my head:

- Lost US tax exemption and official religious recognition in 1967 and could not get it back.

- Hubbard personally convicted of fraud in France (in absentia) and sentenced to four years in jail.

- Operation Snow White uncovered, breakup of the GO, Hubbard's wife convicted in federal court along with 10 other inner circle Scientologists.

- Hubbard having to go into hiding to avoid federal prosecution himself, losing direct control of his creation.

These were unmitigated disasters all brought about by Hubbard and his insane policies. The 1970s is the decade when the organizations were carrying on despite​ Hubbard, not because of him.

 

[programmer_guy]

Just off the top of my head:

- Lost US tax exemption and official religious recognition in 1967 and could not get it back.

- Hubbard personally convicted of fraud in France (in absentia) and sentenced to four years in jail.

- Operation Snow White uncovered, breakup of the GO, Hubbard's wife convicted in federal court along with 10 other inner circle Scientologists.

- Hubbard having to go into hiding to avoid federal prosecution himself, losing direct control of his creation.

These were unmitigated disasters all brought about by Hubbard and his insane policies. The 1970s is the decade when the organizations were carrying on despite​ Hubbard, not because of him.

These are items that no ordinary org/mission staffer or public knew at that time.
CofS was still growing in numbers during the 1970s.

I agree with you that the various seeds of destruction came earlier.

 

[JustSheila]

Chris says that Hubbard never approved of the IAS. Where does that come from? Because I have heard that he wrote the policy for it.

Veda posted the references on this several times.

The IAS came about after Hubbard died. It was never even introduced as a concept until years after DM took over. The only membership that Hubbard ever initiated or condoned was the HASI membership, which was very inexpensive, something like $30 for a lifetime membership. There were no cost tiers with the HASI membership. It was annually or lifetime. Hubbard's concept was to make it easy for everyone in the world to be a member and thus boast about exploding memberships.

DM figured he could boast about any number of memberships he wanted and just make them up as he goes. :confused2:

 

[ThetanExterior]

Veda posted the references on this several times.

The IAS came about after Hubbard died. It was never even introduced as a concept until years after DM took over. The only membership that Hubbard ever initiated or condoned was the HASI membership, which was very inexpensive, something like $30 for a lifetime membership. There were no cost tiers with the HASI membership. It was annually or lifetime. Hubbard's concept was to make it easy for everyone in the world to be a member and thus boast about exploding memberships.

DM figured he could boast about any number of memberships he wanted and just make them up as he goes. :confused2:

Not exactly.

Hubbard died in January 1986. The IAS was formed on October 7th 1984.

I believe the issue that authorised the IAS was an SPL (Scientology Policy Letter), which isn't standard LRH Policy, but I haven't looked into this too deeply so I may be wrong.

 

[JustSheila]

ThetanExterior,

From my memory (which is pretty good when it comes to Scientology), the IAS did not exist until after Hubbard died.

Now I am not infallible, but what are the chances that the issue was backdated to make it APPEAR as if Hubbard wrote it?

This is the sort of thing that would be so huge, it would be covered on a Ron's Journal if it were true.

I left after Hubbard died. I was in the SO. What IAS? There wasn't any.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but DM has backdated a lot of things.

Scientology policy directive? We didn't even have those as issued back then. We had BTBs, HCOBs, HCOPLs, Flag Orders, Executive Directives, etc., but no such thing as a "Scientology policy directive." I never even heard of it until you mentioned it.

And I studied the OEC and did about every hat imaginable and used to love to read old issued in PUBS.

Where is Veda? I'd really like some clarification on this.

 

[Lone Star]

Thetan Exterior is right. The IAS just had its 30th anniversary this past October. It started in 1984. I believe that Hubbard knew about it and approved.

If you go to the IAS website you'll see the 30th anniversary from 2014 still noted.

Hubbard didn't come up with the IAS idea. But he was informed and he gave it a thumbs up. He wasn't totally out of the loop in 1984. DM still reported to him. Just like Hubbard approved of the Mission holder purge.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

ThetanExterior,

From my memory (which is pretty good when it comes to Scientology), the IAS did not exist until after Hubbard died.

Now I am not infallible, but what are the chances that the issue was backdated to make it APPEAR as if Hubbard wrote it?

This is the sort of thing that would be so huge, it would be covered on a Ron's Journal if it were true.

I left after Hubbard died. I was in the SO. What IAS? There wasn't any.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but DM has backdated a lot of things.

Scientology policy directive? We didn't even have those as issued back then. We had BTBs, HCOBs, HCOPLs, Flag Orders, Executive Directives, etc., but no such thing as a "Scientology policy directive." I never even heard of it until you mentioned it.

And I studied the OEC and did about every hat imaginable and used to love to read old issued in PUBS.

Where is Veda? I'd really like some clarification on this.

Scieno-Scenario: A top IAS Reg goes completely rogue and calls one of his whales on the telephone. . .

WILLIAM WHALE
Hello?

IAS REG
Hi William! I've got some really good news
and some bad news today.

WILLIAM WHALE
Okay, whatever it is, I'll be able to
confront it since I just completed OT VIII and 3 "Ls".

IAS REG
Excellent. The good part is that I think you've given
more than enough donations to the IAS, so I won't be
asking you for any more.

WILLIAM WHALE
Wow! Okay. What's the other part?

IAS REG
The bad part is that I am leaving Scientology forever and
I am calling you personally to sincerely apologize for regging
you of a million dollars last week for the IAS. I have to confess
that all the reasons we said the IAS urgently needed your money
was totally a scam. In fact, over one billion dollars is only under the
control of Miscavige and he is spending at least ten million dollars per
year on himself for luxury homes, clothes, entertainment and booze. We
honestly don't even know how many hundreds of millions he has hidden
away for his own personal retirement fund. I'm really really really sorry but
since 1984 we have been bullshitting you like crazy. Before regging big trusting
whales like yourself, we all go in a room and strategize what kind of planetary
emergency there is which will end the planet unless we get your next big check.
Last week when you wrote the check for $1,000,000, I don't know if you noticed
but we were all suppressing laughter when we told you that Ron created a very
special VIP project for "big beings" like you so that you could pay for national TV
advertisements and make planetary clearing a reality. Ron never said that and
we only spend 0.003% of what we raise on fake ad campaigns. We might run the
ad once but then we cancel it and all go our for a 5* meal to celebrate and split
up the huge commission checks we took out of your money. Hey, I personally got
$100,000 of your million, so thanks. I hate what I've become but I'm still going to
keep the S-550 Benz I bought for cash as a going away present for myself. I just
thought I owed you a huge apology and a warning about giving any more money
to the treacherous criminals and sociopaths at the IAS.

WILLIAM WHALE
Wow! Whoa! OMG!

IAS REGISTRAR
You okay?

WILLIAM WHALE
I am very very freaked out by what you just told me.

IAS REGISTRAR
I can understand.
Is there anything I can do to help you?

WILLIAM WHALE
Yes, you can tell me if this com cycle is going to cause me any
problems in Ethics and whether I will still be getting my 6 foot high
trophy at the upcoming IAS event. ​