Do you have ANY Photos of the Old Celebrity Center Days???

[olska]

No, "Clarence," I'd say the truth is you never got to know her . . . . you see, Yvonne, was one of those high-powered classy, very perceptive people who saw very correctly several things: a) correct orders of importance, b) how to best get the job done, c) was a truly great leader and manager of people and, of equal importance, d) she was colossally perceptive regarding others and thus did not suffer fools gladly . . . or at all.

So fools had a rather tough time around her . . . she didn't let them too near her (a wise and sane move) and she sure as hell knew how to keep them from destroying her lines and the things she saw of value.

She also colossally helped many, many people. And was a truly kind person.

I knew Yvonne in Melbourne in the quite early '60's when she ran the $cn Franchise there . . . she was responsible for booming Melbourne $cn and feeding what became the Org . . . she helped many, and is and was beloved by many.

That person in the photo with her I commented on, Wally B, is an old PC of mine from Melbourne.

So I know these cats, and know them well, and know their values and merits and worth.

And one thing we need to respect as a fact of life, whether in $cn (where it is applied rather too viciously) the business world or the military . . . in all these places where performance or indeed lives are at stake . . . the executive class are required to be rather severe in dealing with the idiot class, the trouble-makers and the deadbeats.

So, all I have to say is that anyone who had "trouble" "from" Yvonne shouldn't be blaming Yvonne nor calling her names but looking to see what about themselves was found to be unacceptable to that stellar person.

Your stats in no way match hers as to worth or value . . . . so one can only conclude the fault is not in her or in her stars, but in you and yours. And this is exemplified, as Magoo pointed out later . . . . by the generalities you used.

The truth is, while you may have met her, you didn't know the lady. And she was a great lady and great person . . . . and is deserved of the love and honor so many other great people give her, as shown here on this thread.

So, if you had "trouble" in her presence I can tell you, you are among the very rare, and of a variety who may well be a magnet to it from other sources as well. Tough.

So "Clarence" you are the odd man out . . . . go figure on that.

RogerB

Thank you for this post, Roger.

You summed up very nicely the central reasons why, as of more than 30 years ago, I refuse to support in any way "scientology" or anything like it:

Never dare to deviate from the accepted party line (if you do, and have trouble because of it, why of course that means there is something WRONG with YOU...); "reality" (truth) is consensus (agreement); never question or criticize anyone the "executive class" considers to be "upstat," and all the other bs.

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

No, "Clarence," I'd say the truth is you never got to know her . . . . you see, Yvonne, was one of those high-powered classy, very perceptive people who saw very correctly several things: a) correct orders of importance, b) how to best get the job done, c) was a truly great leader and manager of people and, of equal importance, d) she was colossally perceptive regarding others and thus did not suffer fools gladly . . . or at all.

So fools had a rather tough time around her . . . she didn't let them too near her (a wise and sane move) and she sure as hell knew how to keep them from destroying her lines and the things she saw of value.

She also colossally helped many, many people. And was a truly kind person.

I knew Yvonne in Melbourne in the quite early '60's when she ran the $cn Franchise there . . . she was responsible for booming Melbourne $cn and feeding what became the Org . . . she helped many, and is and was beloved by many.

That person in the photo with her I commented on, Wally B, is an old PC of mine from Melbourne.

So I know these cats, and know them well, and know their values and merits and worth.

And one thing we need to respect as a fact of life, whether in $cn (where it is applied rather too viciously) the business world or the military . . . in all these places where performance or indeed lives are at stake . . . the executive class are required to be rather severe in dealing with the idiot class, the trouble-makers and the deadbeats.

So, all I have to say is that anyone who had "trouble" "from" Yvonne shouldn't be blaming Yvonne nor calling her names but looking to see what about themselves was found to be unacceptable to that stellar person.

Your stats in no way match hers as to worth or value . . . . so one can only conclude the fault is not in her or in her stars, but in you and yours. And this is exemplified, as Magoo pointed out later . . . . by the generalities you used.

The truth is, while you may have met her, you didn't know the lady. And she was a great lady and great person . . . . and is deserved of the love and honor so many other great people give her, as shown here on this thread.

So, if you had "trouble" in her presence I can tell you, you are among the very rare, and of a variety who may well be a magnet to it from other sources as well. Tough.

So "Clarence" you are the odd man out . . . . go figure on that.

RogerB

I lived in the same house with her on Beacon Ave. in L.A. for a good many months. After that on Park street, ditto. As I mentioned in a previous post I walked her dog, I sat in her office with her and heard her third party people. If I can't remember the names, it's because it was 38 years ago, and I've been through much mind damaging stress since then. When she was done with me, I heard her behind a make shift curtain in the basement on Beacon Ave. telling her dupes, "I want him out". The comm eve that followed was a kangaroo court, as most of those she engineered were.
I don't consider expanding Scn. to be a good thing. I think Scn. is criminal destructive hogwash, and anyone who built it up and promoted it was committing overts against mankind. I did my share, but as you pointed out, she far outstripped me. How you can claim to know "that I met the lady but don't know her,": I can't imagine. I was at her second wedding. My parents provided the carpet for her office on eighth street. All while you were on the other side of the planet. I believe from what you wrote that I knew her far better than you and far longer. Nor do I believe that I am the odd man out. I know many who realize what a user, conniver and phoney she was.
When Hazel Newman and Sally Chaleff who worked for her for ten to twelve years for next to nothing, got cancer, she refused them all help and let them die. When Eddie Robins the billiards ace, failed his big tournement in Buenos Aires and got sick, she actually denied him water!!! He was in bed screaming for water, and all the staff were forbidden BY HER to assist him. By this paragon of kindness of yours. Steve Geltman gave him a glass of orange juice and saved his life, according to Eddie. And how you ever got a reputation as someone with smarts I'll never know, if the above inaccuracies and ignorance is an example of it.

 

[Moosejewels]

That's why (for me) It was SUCH a shock, when in 1990, I finally
got onto OT 7, only to find it to be SO EXCLUSIVE.

"Oh no, you can't sit here--only people from NY can"

or
"Oh no, this area is just for Patrons"

It SUCKED big time..except for those really "in" and even for them,
because they were getting soaked for TONS of $$$$ all the time.

As I've said before, I actually turned myself into Ethics at Flag...
to talk with them about this.
"What the HEll is going on? This joint is the top of the Bridge, and they
are mostly a bunch of exclusive Ass holes"

The EO's: "We know. We've watched it. You are the first (and only)
person who has come to speak with us about this".

Their solution? "We do NOT know what to do".

Jeeeeeeeeeeeesh: And that was in the 90's...for peeps lurking.

It is FAR gone. Bail while you still CAN. :run:



Tory/Magoo

Man, you said a bunch there !!

 

[Moosejewels]

I don't have personal pictures, but have access to a bunch of old Celebrity mags.
If any one's interested, I'll post pictures I find from the mags (approx 1974-1978ish).
Here's one,

This photo makes me want to puke !

 

[olska]

<snip>

I don't consider expanding Scn. to be a good thing. I think Scn. is criminal destructive hogwash, and anyone who built it up and promoted it was committing overts against mankind.

<snip>

I didn't know Yvonne, so can't comment on her from personal experience, but I agree with CR's statement quoted above.

The nostalgia on this thread for

"the good old days and how much fun it was back then when we were first being indoctrinated into the cult that brainwashed us, separated us from our loved ones, talked us out of our fortunes, and ruined our lives..."

wow -- rather startling.

It brings to mind a battered woman who after 30 some years (the prime of her adult life) being married to a man who abused her and her children, who is crippled by the physical and mental abuse heaped on her, whose children are in foster care or have long ago run away to fend for themselves, has escaped with the help of some sane and strong friends, and sits at a table over coffee, recounting with a sigh, "but I remember when we were dating, how charming he was, how attractive and sexy he made me feel, how he just swept me off my feet... it was all so beautiful then!"

 

[Boojuum]

I lived in the same house with her on Beacon Ave. in L.A. for a good many months. After that on Park street, ditto. As I mentioned in a previous post I walked her dog, I sat in her office with her and heard her third party people. If I can't remember the names, it's because it was 38 years ago, and I've been through much mind damaging stress since then. When she was done with me, I heard her behind a make shift curtain in the basement on Beacon Ave. telling her dupes, "I want him out". The comm eve that followed was a kangaroo court, as most of those she engineered were.
I don't consider expanding Scn. to be a good thing. I think Scn. is criminal destructive hogwash, and anyone who built it up and promoted it was committing overts against mankind. I did my share, but as you pointed out, she far outstripped me. How you can claim to know "that I met the lady but don't know her,": I can't imagine. I was at her second wedding. My parents provided the carpet for her office on eighth street. All while you were on the other side of the planet. I believe from what you wrote that I knew her far better than you and far longer. Nor do I believe that I am the odd man out. I know many who realize what a user, conniver and phoney she was.
When Hazel Newman and Sally Chaleff who worked for her for ten to twelve years for next to nothing, got cancer, she refused them all help and let them die. When Eddie Robins the billiards ace, failed his big tournement in Buenos Aires and got sick, she actually denied him water!!! He was in bed screaming for water, and all the staff were forbidden BY HER to assist him. By this paragon of kindness of yours. Steve Geltman gave him a glass of orange juice and saved his life, according to Eddie. And how you ever got a reputation as someone with smarts I'll never know, if the above inaccuracies and ignorance is an example of it.

Never met her. Only heard good stuff about her. CR: I deeply appreciate your posts in this regard. I had a great deal of trouble with some execs and none with others. Always struck me as strange that someone in a managerial position could be accorded praise if they "got the stats up" and were monsters. Similar stuff happens in the wog world. Sometimes the evil catches up to the perpetrator but not always.

Scientology arcana has many heros and villains, and IMHO it only takes a few good handlings to make the reg, auditor, supervisor, C/S, ED, MAA or random staff member seem like a savior in the eyes of a public.

From a staff position, even the most capable looked pretty normal after numerous ethics handlings or numerous stat pushes or numerous purges.

A Scientology org is a very specialized place and rising in the ranks doesn't necessarily mean anything special, accept that you are very dedicated.

Part of the problem I had with life was my tendency to idolize anyone who could do something that I couldn't do or didn't do. It's a relief to hear actual stories that let one know that our heros were still pretty human, even if they could perform amazing feats.

 

[FoTi]

The New CC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoXaqALrpNg&feature=related

This used to be The Manor (You could see it from the 101 freeway).

I don't mean to derail this thread about Old CC but... when CC moved to this building what did they do to provide an exclusive Scientology Hotel replacement? (You had to get a Sec Check just to get a room.)

I lived there for 3 years.....'85 -'88.....I didn't have to get a sec check. :confused2:

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

I lived there for 3 years.....'85 -'88.....I didn't have to get a sec check. :confused2:

I went into the above pictured building almost on the day it was purchased. It was GORGEOUS! then the S.O. took it over, and in a month it was a total shit hole. But it wasn't CC. That stayed on La Brea Blvd. It was AO or Asshole or some crap. Who knows who cares? And then there was a big push to get it back to it's pristine former wog appearance. And so things were spruced up, but it NEVER came back to the Gable and Lombard look it had on that first day I saw it. One time Yvonne Borgia decided to move us up into the former Chandler mansion in Griffith Park. The Chandler who founded the L.A. Times newspaper, and whose wife Dorothy had the chief theatre in L.A. named for her. Those people. You can imagine what happened. Within a week, it looked like a cross between a hippie commune and Tobacco Road.
I had a car. A Rambler. I was 'urged' to let others use it for staff purposes. It was a contest, what could deteriorate and turn into typical S.O. enmest first, the mansion or the Rambler. The car won. I had to dump it. The neighbors signed a petition to get us out. And staff ended up at the Wilcox Hotel, a fleatrap they would have condemned in Tijuana.

 

[FoTi]

I went into the above pictured building almost on the day it was purchased. It was GORGEOUS! then the S.O. took it over, and in a month it was a total shit hole. But it wasn't CC. That stayed on La Brea Blvd. It was AO or Asshole or some crap. Who knows who cares? And then there was a big push to get it back to it's pristine former wog appearance. And so things were spruced up, but it NEVER came back to the Gable and Lombard look it had on that first day I saw it. One time Yvonne Borgia decided to move us up into the former Chandler mansion in Griffith Park. The Chandler who founded the L.A. Times newspaper, and whose wife Dorothy had the chief theatre in L.A. named for her. Those people. You can imagine what happened. Within a week, it looked like a cross between a hippie commune and Tobacco Road.
I had a car. A Rambler. I was 'urged' to let others use it for staff purposes. It was a contest, what could deteriorate and turn into typical S.O. enmest first, the mansion or the Rambler. The car won. I had to dump it. The neighbors signed a petition to get us out. And staff ended up at the Wilcox Hotel, a fleatrap they would have condemned in Tijuana.

When Scientology bought the Manor, and they were trying to fill it up, I went and looked at it, fell in love with the place and moved in....that was very early '74. I stayed there for several months, while I was getting auditing. I never saw it as a shit hole. I had a lot of fun there. The AO was in the Annex, which was on the same property as the Manor, And CC was on 8th Street then, not on La Brea. I rode the Manor Bus to CC to get auditing when I first moved into the Manor.

I liked the old CC on 8th Street. It had a kind of funky charm to it and everyone seemed to be so happy and having fun there. First public place I ever went to that never had any toilet paper. I appreciated the way they put it together, with hardly any money, with the carpet samples and all. And the place always seemed alive with artists of all kinds. It was a charming place to me. The only reason I left was because the service was bad. I went over to ASHO and got good service, but there was no artistic charm there.

CC moved to La Brea later. I didn't care for the place on La Brea.....it seemed like a kind of cold environment and didn't seem to have the same flavor, charm or friendliness as the CC on 8th Street.

Then, later yet, CC moved into the Manor. CC had the first two floors of the Manor when I lived there in '85-'88. I lived on the third floor and I took a course at CCLA....( the confidential dissem pilot ).... in one of their courserooms, while I was living there during this time period. By '85, the Manor was pretty rundown.....not taken care of. Overrun with roaches in the rooms and rats in the kitchen downstairs where one of my roommates was working. I took care of the roaches in my room and avoided the dining room in the restaurant downstairs. I once saw a rat running on the railing outside my kitchen window. He could smell my cooking. It ran by the window and then peeked it's had back around and watched me. I thought it was kind of cute. Seemed like a rat with a personality.

If one wanted to keep their belongings in good condition....one didn't loan them to the SO or staff. They seemed to be really hard on stuff. I loaned a beautiful tape deck to the GO and a very nice portable typewriter to a staff member......both came back eventually in a condition that was useless to me. I learned my lesson. I also learned not to loan money to Scientologists, whether they were staff or not. Once it was out of my hands, I rarely got it back again. I'm still owed about $7,500, which I know I will never see ever again. The church sucked people dry and they couldn't pay their debts and when people left the CoS, they were too despondent to try to pay it back....they just disappeared. This group was not just hard on objects, they were equally hard on people, turned them into a ratty condition too.

 

[lkwdblds]

When Scientology bought the Manor, and they were trying to fill it up, I went and looked at it, fell in love with the place and moved in....that was very early '74. I stayed there for several months, while I was getting auditing. I never saw it as a shit hole. I had a lot of fun there. The AO was in the Annex, which was on the same property as the Manor, And CC was on 8th Street then, not on La Brea. I rode the Manor Bus to CC to get auditing when I first moved into the Manor.

I liked the old CC on 8th Street. It had a kind of funky charm to it and everyone seemed to be so happy and having fun there. First public place I ever went to that never had any toilet paper. I appreciated the way they put it together, with hardly any money, with the carpet samples and all. And the place always seemed alive with artists of all kinds. It was a charming place to me. The only reason I left was because the service was bad. I went over to ASHO and got good service, but there was no artistic charm there.

CC moved to La Brea later. I didn't care for the place on La Brea.....it seemed like a kind of cold environment and didn't seem to have the same flavor, charm or friendliness as the CC on 8th Street.

Then, later yet, CC moved into the Manor. CC had the first two floors of the Manor when I lived there in '85-'88. I lived on the third floor and I took a course at CCLA....( the confidential dissem pilot ).... in one of their courserooms, while I was living there during this time period. By '85, the Manor was pretty rundown.....not taken care of. Overrun with roaches in the rooms and rats in the kitchen downstairs where one of my roommates was working. I took care of the roaches in my room and avoided the dining room in the restaurant downstairs. I once saw a rat running on the railing outside my kitchen window. He could smell my cooking. It ran by the window and then peeked it's had back around and watched me. I thought it was kind of cute. Seemed like a rat with a personality.

If one wanted to keep their belongings in good condition....one didn't loan them to the SO or staff. They seemed to be really hard on stuff. I loaned a beautiful tape deck to the GO and a very nice portable typewriter to a staff member......both came back eventually in a condition that was useless to me. I learned my lesson. I also learned not to loan money to Scientologists, whether they were staff or not. Once it was out of my hands, I rarely got it back again. I'm still owed about $7,500, which I know I will never see ever again. The church sucked people dry and they couldn't pay their debts and when people left the CoS, they were too despondent to try to pay it back....they just disappeared. This group was not just hard on objects, they were equally hard on people, turned them into a ratty condition too.

I share your recollections and your views. FoTi. I joined Sea Org Staff at CCLA about a year and 3 months after Clarence did. Prior to that I was CC Public for a full year.

As for Yvonne, she was a special person. Her strong traits were her charm, her tremendous amount of charisma and her tremendously strong intention. Almost everyone who ever was public or staff idolized Yvonne at one time or another. This is not to say that no one ever got hurt by her. She was a tough no nonsense type of executive. When she made up her mind about something, she had powerful intention and intended her point of view to prevail. Sometimes people got hurt by her actions when they had not done anything wrong. That happened to me as well.

Still, looking at her as an executive of an Organization and as a leader, she was a remarkable person. Her charisma was so strong that if she complimented a public person or a staff member on their clothing or hair cut or something they had written, the person usually "walked on air" for days. We all knew that Yvonne had started CCLA on her own in late 1969 and early 1970 so we knew she had a lot of ability because by the autumrn of 1970, there were nearly 150 staff members.

For those who were not there, It is hard to imagine the espirit de corps which existed there. It looked for all the world that this Organizatioin was a forerunner for a happier and more productive Civilization which would shortly appear on Earth.

Sure, we were all taken in by Hubbard, and the whole thing was basically an expression of Hubbard's drive to amass money and gain control over the planet. I do not believe that Yvonne knew or believed that. She truly believed that Hubbard was a great man who was here to save the world.

One thing about Yvonne, if anyone got in her way or got in Hubbard's way as regards the growth and expansion of Scn, she would attack that person very fiercely. Unfortunately, some people did get trampled on by Yvonne. Sometimes they deserved it, sometimes what happened to them was totally uncalled for and unfair.

I worked very closely with her as a junior executive on CCLA staff for around 3 years and I believe that she did a lot more good than bad. Many more people were helped and built up than were abused and beat down under her command. She really did not know at that time that what she was working for was an extremely abussive Organization. She believed just the opposite.

Had she lived beyond 1978 into to the DM era, I think she would have come to realize that C of S was heading in the wrong direction. Such things as no family time for staffs and the policies not allowing staff members to have babies would have definitely been fought by her. It is hard to speculate on what she would have done under the newer management.

I'll tell you this, she would have been kicked out, probably about the time Mayo and most of the other people who had worked closely with Hubbard were kicked out, sometime in the early to mid 1980's. She never would have been allowed by the new management to remain on as an Int Executive. Whether she would have eventually become a protester against the Church, I can't even make a guess.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I went into the above pictured building almost on the day it was purchased. It was GORGEOUS! then the S.O. took it over, and in a month it was a total shit hole. But it wasn't CC. That stayed on La Brea Blvd. It was AO or Asshole or some crap. Who knows who cares? And then there was a big push to get it back to it's pristine former wog appearance. And so things were spruced up, but it NEVER came back to the Gable and Lombard look it had on that first day I saw it. One time Yvonne Borgia decided to move us up into the former Chandler mansion in Griffith Park. The Chandler who founded the L.A. Times newspaper, and whose wife Dorothy had the chief theatre in L.A. named for her. Those people. You can imagine what happened. Within a week, it looked like a cross between a hippie commune and Tobacco Road.
I had a car. A Rambler. I was 'urged' to let others use it for staff purposes. It was a contest, what could deteriorate and turn into typical S.O. enmest first, the mansion or the Rambler. The car won. I had to dump it. The neighbors signed a petition to get us out. And staff ended up at the Wilcox Hotel, a fleatrap they would have condemned in Tijuana.

IIRC the original Scn occupants of the Manor were PAC Estates Org, FOLO WUS, US GO and Officers/Senior Execs Berthing.

Going back to the mid-'60's (that I know of) every building Scn purchased fell into serious disrepair. This was true of the Apollo as well after its initial jake-leg refit when it was the Royal Scotman. As we all know, the reason for this was the same reason that staff lived one step up from hobos…El Ron’s oppressive Finance Policies and Greed.

When I was on staff in the '60's I never loaned out my car to anyone...accept once. I loaned it...after much pleading and promising...to the main person that got me into Scn. It was a very nice car for a staff member. They nearly totalled it.

I’m curious, Clarence…how long were you in the SO and what posts did you have? I’ll understand if you’d rather not answer.



Face

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

IIRC the original Scn occupants of the Manor were PAC Estates Org, FOLO WUS, US GO and Officers/Senior Execs Berthing.

Going back to the mid-'60's (that I know of) every building Scn purchased fell into serious disrepair. This was true of the Apollo as well after its initial jake-leg refit when it was the Royal Scotman. As we all know, the reason for this was the same reason that staff lived one step up from hobos…El Ron’s oppressive Finance Policies and Greed.

When I was on staff in the '60's I never loaned out my car to anyone...accept once. I loaned it...after much pleading and promising...to the main person that got me into Scn. It was a very nice car for a staff member. The nearly totalled it.

I’m curious, Clarence…how long were you in the SO and what posts did you have? I’ll understand if you’d rather not answer.



Face

I was yeoman to Margaret George, ethics officer. I was communicator to Amanda Ambrose, for which Yvonne denied me meals at the house, I was in charge of PR in Denver under Mike Goldstein, and did the same in Vancouver B.C. for Elsie Griffith. The latter two posts however were not S.O. Why are you curious? I'm a very boring person. I even bore myself. What's your story?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I was yeoman to Margaret George, ethics officer. I was communicator to Amanda Ambrose, for which Yvonne denied me meals at the house, I was in charge of PR in Denver under Mike Goldstein, and did the same in Vancouver B.C. for Elsie Griffith. The latter two posts however were not S.O. Why are you curious? I'm a very boring person. I even bore myself. What's your story?

Clarence,

Cool…I knew Amanda, Elsie and Mike, too. Have you looked at Mike’s Identics stuff. I find it interesting (I knew Golusha in passing).

I’m a curious person by nature and have always been interested in another’s “Frame of Reference”; where they came from, where they’ve been, what they’ve lived. Because of this Blessing/Curse, when I was in Scn I had chats with a whole bunch of folks--from Old Timers of the ‘50’s to newbies of the ‘80’s--about their lives, experiences, etc. People fascinate me and I learn from learning about them, their "take" and their path. It helps me to understand folks better if I have some “Context”.

I’ve written a number of posts in the past re: my “Story”--pre, during and post Scn. As I wish to retain anonymity, the posts have been in general terms.

Briefly,

I was a Public Student and PC and then CL IV Org Staff around the mid ‘60’s or so. From the Early ‘70’s to the Mid ‘80’s or so I was Flag Crew. I’ve run a few Orgs, served a stint in INT “Management”, LRH Pers Office and did some Missions (Missionaire). I’ve had some “Tech” training, delivered some Processing, was an “Upper Level” Case and had a bunch of Admin training.

As I spent time as a Senior Exec in Orgs and “Management”, I have no doubt that there are folks out there that remember me with much less than fondness and that felt hurt by me. Sometimes I did things that were against my basic nature or better judgment because I was ordered to, or hounded and pounded on to and sometimes (especially when I was a newbie) was just plain chicken. Sometimes I did things to others to save my own skin--not because I personally couldn’t fade the heat--but because my demise would have left in the lurch others that I really cared about, was committed to and that depended on me.

The whole Scn System was designed, in part, to squash or “Break” the individual and make them “Compliant”. I saw some very cruel things done to people because of some HCOB, HCOPL or Flag Order passage was being “applied” (enforced) on someone by the determination of another to be “Standard” or “In ‘Tech’”. I saw a slew of folks try with all their guts, guile and gumption to work around, within and on the fringes of the System and, as much as possible, do “the right thing”…I think the majority of the folks here on ESMB are cut from that cloth.

I think we’re all boring at times and I’ve certainly been bored with myself off and on…but, I try not to be a bore.

Face

 

[programmer_guy]

I lived there for 3 years.....'85 -'88.....I didn't have to get a sec check. :confused2:

I was there, briefly, in the 1970s when it was The Manor (not CC) and I got a Sec Check before I could get my room.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

For some reason, I feel compelled to expand on the following statement I made in post #93 on this thread;

“Sometimes I did things that were against my basic nature or better judgment because I was ordered to, or hounded and pounded on to and sometimes (especially when I was a newbie) was just plain chicken.”

At the point I “bought into” Scn, “The Bridge”, “Clear” and “OT” as real I was, unawares at that moment, “had”. I wasn’t afraid of anyone on a one on one basis but I was afraid of what their actions, and my response meant to "the future" and my “future”.

As a Newbie--having had some HUGE wins in Auditing--I thought, “Wow, ‘this’ is real.” At that point I not only wanted to go “Clear” and “OT”, I had an intense desire for others to have “Wins” like mine.

As the years rolled by I went after “It” with all that I had within me, went up the “Grade Chart”, subsequently wound up at Flag and interacted with El Ron and all the “OT’s” there. Over that time I realized that not only were the “OT Levels” bogus but also the fact that El Ron knew it and wasn’t what Hisself presented as being.

For a number of years my great fear was that my whole agonized future and that of Mankind depended on what I did now and here in Scientology. That false fear and self enforced lie drove me to do things that I never imagined doing. My deepest fears were not about the current moment, they were about the future and "letting down others", and folks I’m here to tell you that really F’d with my head.

Face

PS: My apologies to all for going so completely off topic on this Thread.

 

[Clarence Rockaway]

Clarence,

Cool…I knew Amanda, Elsie and Mike, too. Have you looked at Mike’s Identics stuff. I find it interesting (I knew Golusha in passing).

I’m a curious person by nature and have always been interested in another’s “Frame of Reference”; where they came from, where they’ve been, what they’ve lived. Because of this Blessing/Curse, when I was in Scn I had chats with a whole bunch of folks--from Old Timers of the ‘50’s to newbies of the ‘80’s--about their lives, experiences, etc. People fascinate me and I learn from learning about them, their "take" and their path. It helps me to understand folks better if I have some “Context”.

I’ve written a number of posts in the past re: my “Story”--pre, during and post Scn. As I wish to retain anonymity, the posts have been in general terms.

Briefly,

I was a Public Student and PC and then CL IV Org Staff around the mid ‘60’s or so. From the Early ‘70’s to the Mid ‘80’s or so I was Flag Crew. I’ve run a few Orgs, served a stint in INT “Management”, LRH Pers Office and did some Missions (Missionaire). I’ve had some “Tech” training, delivered some Processing, was an “Upper Level” Case and had a bunch of Admin training.

As I spent time as a Senior Exec in Orgs and “Management”, I have no doubt that there are folks out there that remember me with much less than fondness and that felt hurt by me. Sometimes I did things that were against my basic nature or better judgment because I was ordered to, or hounded and pounded on to and sometimes (especially when I was a newbie) was just plain chicken. Sometimes I did things to others to save my own skin--not because I personally couldn’t fade the heat--but because my demise would have left in the lurch others that I really cared about, was committed to and that depended on me.

The whole Scn System was designed, in part, to squash or “Break” the individual and make them “Compliant”. I saw some very cruel things done to people because of some HCOB, HCOPL or Flag Order passage was being “applied” (enforced) on someone by the determination of another to be “Standard” or “In ‘Tech’”. I saw a slew of folks try with all their guts, guile and gumption to work around, within and on the fringes of the System and, as much as possible, do “the right thing”…I think the majority of the folks here on ESMB are cut from that cloth.

I think we’re all boring at times and I’ve certainly been bored with myself off and on…but, I try not to be a bore.

Face

I know very little about Idenics. Goldz offered me a session over the phone, but I was already nicely settled into Eckhart Tolle's material, and so passed. I was taught to be a Dianetic auditor by John Galusha. Do you know what ever happened to Elsie Griffith? What's your name by the way? Send it to me in a PM if you don't want it widely known. I may have heard of you.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I know very little about Idenics. Goldz offered me a session over the phone, but I was already nicely settled into Eckhart Tolle's material, and so passed. I was taught to be a Dianetic auditor by John Galusha. Do you know what ever happened to Elsie Griffith? What's your name by the way? Send it to me in a PM if you don't want it widely known. I may have heard of you.

Eckhart's got great stuff, IMO. I don't know what happened to Elsie.

There is only a handful of folks on ESMB that know my identity and I wish to keep it that way.

Face

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

There is only a handful of folks on ESMB that know my identity and I wish to keep it that way.

I never really understood how it works, but this better not turn out to be one of those False Flag things.

False? Flag? Face?
They all start with the letter "F".
Tinfoil? Just a coincidence?
Think again, people!
​

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I never really understood how it works, but this better not turn out to be one of those False Flag things.

False? Flag? Face?
They all start with the letter "F".
Tinfoil? Just a coincidence?
Think again, people!
​

F

 

[FoTi]

I was there, briefly, in the 1970s when it was The Manor (not CC) and I got a Sec Check before I could get my room.

I was there in early '74.....did not get any sec check to get a room. I don't think they were doing that at that time, nor in '85-'88. Some of the people who ended up in my room would never have passed a sec check.