Wow that article really resonated with me. My coping mechanism towards the end was to just sit there like a rock providing short no emotion responses until she would let me go. I remember I got really good at it... and she started to push harder desperate to continue to exert her influence on me. Slaps to the face, knocking my plate of hot dogs across the room, etc. Having any sort of response except boredom would have just made it worse.
HELP!! part 2
- Thread starter AgentIce
- Start date
[COMMENT][/COMMENT]
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
The whole spiel from your Mom saying "we were just in scientology AND Ron's org to infiltrate it" was the big, red, waving psycho flag to me. Joining the SO and "infiltrating" a cult for DECADES is not infiltration, it's joining a fucking cult and being a devoted member.
Your mother's delusions were amazingly deep. If she lies to herself like that about her involvement in the cult I can only imagine what she's like in other areas.
Does she really claim all those years involved in CoS/RO were just her living some pointless spy game to you?
Your mother's delusions were amazingly deep. If she lies to herself like that about her involvement in the cult I can only imagine what she's like in other areas.
Does she really claim all those years involved in CoS/RO were just her living some pointless spy game to you?
Smurf
Gold Meritorious SP
Tom... you really need to find a good therapist to help you recognize your trigger points & how to move on with life. You, your mother & your stepfather (Mike) have been clawing at each other's jugulars for at least 10+ years now with no resolution in sight.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.clearing.technology/tfCuYDx6718
You have posted some very long & indepth narratives of how things have occurred between you & your mother, and I know Virginia has her own perceptions & narratives on what happened which greatly differ from yours. You will only accept an apology from her on your terms & perception of what is a sincere apology, and your mother has her own perceptions.
I was estranged from my mother for many years & in that time, with the help of counseling, I learned some important lessons which I would strongly encourage you to think about.
1. You are so much stronger than you think!
2. Forgive yourself. You did the best you could.
3. Not all relationships last..some die & some choose to leave for their own reasons.
4. Do not allow your mother, stepfather or any single person to have so much power over your life, that without them you feel your life has no value.
5. You are not responsible for your parents. Let them have their life and allow them live it their own way, even if that means you are not included.
6. Find friends who lift you up and love you for who you are. Fill the void with healthy relationships that enhance your life not ones that hurt you.
Most importantly.. LOVE YOURSELF!
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Emphasis mine.
Unfortunately that (line above emphasised) is one of the pertinent issues that many scientologists have to come to terms with when they get out of the cult ... it's one of the main parts of the conditioning, indoctrination and culture and many continue to do it after leaving the cult, till one day they realise it's not normal ... and stop.
It's exhausting to live with I know, it's like they believe they're in perpetual "therapy" and whoever is there is appointed as their personal "therapist" and has to sit there and cop it (with all the drama and emotions thrown in) till they have a "cognition or get thoroughly acknowledged" to their satisfaction and feel OK again ... meanwhile you are left feeling like you've been hit by a bus.
I feel for you if you were the child of a "full on" scientologist ... and somewhere deep inside I also feel for your Ma (but for different reasons).
I truly hope you will be able to sort things out in your own world now as an adult and can one day create a family of your own that feels more like the one you possibly wanted as a child.
It's exhausting to live with I know, it's like they believe they're in perpetual "therapy" and whoever is there is appointed as their personal "therapist" and has to sit there and cop it (with all the drama and emotions thrown in) till they have a "cognition or get thoroughly acknowledged" to their satisfaction and feel OK again ... meanwhile you are left feeling like you've been hit by a bus.
I feel for you if you were the child of a "full on" scientologist ... and somewhere deep inside I also feel for your Ma (but for different reasons).
I truly hope you will be able to sort things out in your own world now as an adult and can one day create a family of your own that feels more like the one you possibly wanted as a child.
Mike McClaughry
Patron with Honors
Watching Saturday morning cartoons can be entertaining but it is done with the understanding that it is fiction. The same idea applies when Tom is telling his life stories. Some people may be entertained by them but it should be done with the understanding that you are being told highly fictionalized stories that are not true.
I’m not going to address every lie, but I’ll give you a few examples…
Tom said –
Tom says he had to give in and shut up in times when he was right. That is a lie. He was not right. When he tortured his sisters and our pets, he was verbally chastised for that behavior. He was not in the right.
Tom had three big arguments with his mom when he was growing up. The first was about an IQ test, the second was about the pronunciation of the word sword. The third was about the definition of a grammar word. He was not right, as he falsely claims.
Tom said the word sword is pronounced by including the w sound. His mom said the w is silent, the word is pronounced “sord”. Tom said his teacher told him to pronounce it that way, so his mom said let’s go ask the teacher, at which point Tom backed down.
The dictionary says the word is pronounced “sord”. Tom was wrong, but yet he lies on this forum and says he was made to back down when he was right.
In the third argument Tom and his mom argued about the definitiion of a grammar word. Both of them were right, they just knew of a different definition for the same grammar word. I told Virginia that Tom’s definition was what the grammar books says. She then corrected it and told Tom he had a correct definition for the grammar word. And he was not given any discipline for that argument.
Yet Tom tries to say that she never admits it when she is wrong. That is not true, she admits it when she finds out she said something wrong. His real complaint is he could not get her to admit to being wrong when she wasn’t.
Tom said -
There was a day we were play boxing to help Tom learn to box. The punches were simulated, not landed, and we had fun doing it, laughing about it. He did surprisingly well. It did not end with him crying about it.
Tom said -
I never said “What are your lies?” to Tom. I told him the first thing he needed to do was go correct the lies he told on the ESMB forum. That would be the first step to rectifying his relationship with us.
Tom said –
Tom and his drunken pals did not just make a couple of prank calls. They called non-stop for over three hours straight, each time ignoring my request to stop calling. As soon as I would hang up, they would immediately call again.
Telephone harassment is a misdeamenor for which you can be fined and put in jail. When done in conjunction with others, like they did, it becomes a felony for which you can be fined and put in jail.
I told them they were breaking the law, they laughed and did not believe me, and would not stop. Towards the end of the three hours I told them I was going to record their harassment and turn it over to the police, which I did. Tom and his mis-informed drug buddies have no right to commit crimes on us.
So, while some may find Tom’s life stories to be entertaining, all should be advised that all you are listening to is a bunch of highly fictionalized tales. A word to the wise should be sufficient.
Lastly, Tom has been constantly attacking his mother and has interferred in our lives by trying to get every other family member to join him in attacking his mother. He will never rectify his relationship with us until he stops attacking.
On the other hand, we do not interfere in Tom’s life at all. He has been free to go make a good life for himself, and nobody is stopping him from doing that except Tom himself. Our wish for him is that he will make a good life for himself. He has a good start on that by having a decent job now.
And if he ever stops lying to himself and everyone else about what kind of people we are, perhaps then things can be as they should be.
I’m not going to address every lie, but I’ll give you a few examples…
Tom said –
“Every argument we had where I knew I was right but had to shut up so I didn't get kicked out or put in ethics or my stuff taken away, I remembered, and that hurt and pain didn't go away. I imagine it must have been very hard for her to have a son who seemed to wish her ill... always pointing out her mistakes. Just hoping for once she would admit she was wrong, on something.”
Tom says he had to give in and shut up in times when he was right. That is a lie. He was not right. When he tortured his sisters and our pets, he was verbally chastised for that behavior. He was not in the right.
Tom had three big arguments with his mom when he was growing up. The first was about an IQ test, the second was about the pronunciation of the word sword. The third was about the definition of a grammar word. He was not right, as he falsely claims.
Tom said the word sword is pronounced by including the w sound. His mom said the w is silent, the word is pronounced “sord”. Tom said his teacher told him to pronounce it that way, so his mom said let’s go ask the teacher, at which point Tom backed down.
The dictionary says the word is pronounced “sord”. Tom was wrong, but yet he lies on this forum and says he was made to back down when he was right.
In the third argument Tom and his mom argued about the definitiion of a grammar word. Both of them were right, they just knew of a different definition for the same grammar word. I told Virginia that Tom’s definition was what the grammar books says. She then corrected it and told Tom he had a correct definition for the grammar word. And he was not given any discipline for that argument.
Yet Tom tries to say that she never admits it when she is wrong. That is not true, she admits it when she finds out she said something wrong. His real complaint is he could not get her to admit to being wrong when she wasn’t.
Tom said -
“I remember my step - dad trying to teach me to fight by throwing some slaps and telling to defend myself. I was already at the breaking point barely hiding the grief and pain and lack of self-esteem I felt and those slaps just made it too real and I started crying so that was the end of the lesson.”
There was a day we were play boxing to help Tom learn to box. The punches were simulated, not landed, and we had fun doing it, laughing about it. He did surprisingly well. It did not end with him crying about it.
Tom said -
“I would talk to Mike and it would always start with "What are your lies?" something that usually pissed me off right away.”
I never said “What are your lies?” to Tom. I told him the first thing he needed to do was go correct the lies he told on the ESMB forum. That would be the first step to rectifying his relationship with us.
Tom said –
“I was drinking with friends and they couldn't believe how crazy my mom/step-dad sounded. I had just lost all respect for them so we made a couple prank calls.. the whole time with Mike threatening to call the cops and that we'd be going to jail. That just made us lose more respect and laugh harder.”
Tom and his drunken pals did not just make a couple of prank calls. They called non-stop for over three hours straight, each time ignoring my request to stop calling. As soon as I would hang up, they would immediately call again.
Telephone harassment is a misdeamenor for which you can be fined and put in jail. When done in conjunction with others, like they did, it becomes a felony for which you can be fined and put in jail.
I told them they were breaking the law, they laughed and did not believe me, and would not stop. Towards the end of the three hours I told them I was going to record their harassment and turn it over to the police, which I did. Tom and his mis-informed drug buddies have no right to commit crimes on us.
So, while some may find Tom’s life stories to be entertaining, all should be advised that all you are listening to is a bunch of highly fictionalized tales. A word to the wise should be sufficient.
Lastly, Tom has been constantly attacking his mother and has interferred in our lives by trying to get every other family member to join him in attacking his mother. He will never rectify his relationship with us until he stops attacking.
On the other hand, we do not interfere in Tom’s life at all. He has been free to go make a good life for himself, and nobody is stopping him from doing that except Tom himself. Our wish for him is that he will make a good life for himself. He has a good start on that by having a decent job now.
And if he ever stops lying to himself and everyone else about what kind of people we are, perhaps then things can be as they should be.
degraded being
Sponsor
.
.
Heeeeeere we go again. We are going to have the great honor of being the audience for Family Dysfunctional Reality Season 2? or 3?
Who needs therapists when you can get message board participants who feed your drama addictions by actually taking part!!??
Don't change the channel: Coming up in this series we have
accusations of delusional mental disorders.
Posting which definitely sound deluded.
Real life experiences in a cult (Scientology-how insane is that?)
A 3 way drama fight to the death by a mother, her son and his stepdad.
The drama addicts who fight together, stick together.
.
Heeeeeere we go again. We are going to have the great honor of being the audience for Family Dysfunctional Reality Season 2? or 3?
Who needs therapists when you can get message board participants who feed your drama addictions by actually taking part!!??
Don't change the channel: Coming up in this series we have
accusations of delusional mental disorders.
Posting which definitely sound deluded.
Real life experiences in a cult (Scientology-how insane is that?)
A 3 way drama fight to the death by a mother, her son and his stepdad.
The drama addicts who fight together, stick together.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Tom... you really need to find a good therapist to help you recognize your trigger points & how to move on with life. You, your mother & your stepfather (Mike) have been clawing at each other's jugulars for at least 10+ years now with no resolution in sight.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.clearing.technology/tfCuYDx6718
You have posted some very long & indepth narratives of how things have occurred between you & your mother, and I know Virginia has her own perceptions & narratives on what happened which greatly differ from yours. You will only accept an apology from her on your terms & perception of what is a sincere apology, and your mother has her own perceptions.
I was estranged from my mother for many years & in that time, with the help of counseling, I learned some important lessons which I would strongly encourage you to think about.
1. You are so much stronger than you think!
2. Forgive yourself. You did the best you could.
3. Not all relationships last..some die & some choose to leave for their own reasons.
4. Do not allow your mother, stepfather or any single person to have so much power over your life, that without them you feel your life has no value.
5. You are not responsible for your parents. Let them have their life and allow them live it their own way, even if that means you are not included.
6. Find friends who lift you up and love you for who you are. Fill the void with healthy relationships that enhance your life not ones that hurt you.
Most importantly.. LOVE YOURSELF!
Smurf, I think that this is the most caring and helpful post you have ever made on the internet that I know of
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
Your step-son is showing way more maturity than you and your wife combined x10.
Also, who the hell remembers and writes three paragraphs defending an argument you had with your child about the frigging word sword. The fact you remember it and think being right about the pronunciation of a word all these years actually matters one bit just shows you got some whack priorities and selective memory.
If these two had just "three" arguments during his entire childhood I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you - or Tom was right about just shutting down mentally and not engaging his unhinged mother. You have BOTH demonstrated pointlessly argumentative, mentally unbalanced, drama fueled behavior on ESMB repeatedly. Tom has not.
Lone Star
Crusader
It's been a bit boring around here, so can we have a debate, or even a knock-down-drag-out argument on the proper pronunciation for the word, "Moron"?
Is it MO-ron......or MORE-on? :confused2:
Oh, and the above teacher in question regarding the pronunciation of the word "sword"......was she or he a Delphi/Scilon teacher? It would help to know.
Which takes us back to the word "moron".
Terril park
Sponsor
Nice to see things are getting better for you Tom.
eldritch cuckoo
brainslugged reptilian
Mmh, yeah. (Gliding into reverie...) Selective priorities and [STRIKE]orwellianic distorted[/STRIKE] whack memory. Oh, wait...
I'm a bit in disbelief over this, too. If he would have written "three times a day", I could believe it... Or three times a week, and each going on for one hour, or let's say, two... Ah, sweet sweet memories... Say, can't you people lie in a bit more interesting, charming, conning way? There is sooo much Hubbard literature linked/doxed here...
I mean, think about pointlessly unbalanced, "mentally" argumentative, full drama stuff... Haven't you Ex [STRIKE]Scientologists[/STRIKE] agents read DMSMH? 
Smurf
Gold Meritorious SP
Give it a rest, Mike. You are your worst, arrogant, self-important enemy. You know your dysfunctional family issues won't be resolved on this forum.
You enjoy stirring up shit. How very Scientology of you.
Claire Swazey
Spokeshole, fence sitter
Mike,
When I exchanged posts with Virginia a while back, I was struck by the pain and remorse you both have been feeling.
What I'm seeing is that you, like every other human being, have flaws and areas you're maybe not looking at. That's not a poke at you; it's just how most people are. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have made mistakes and done the things we've done.
There's a hazard, therefore: when you talk about it here, people are naturally going to have opinions on it and they're go into want to express them. They may be right in the points they are making, but they are fucking up in one important way. Due to the bravery conferred on them by the dehumanizing buffer the Internet provides, they think little or nothing of explaining your life to you as if you had no feelings. They can see where you're maybe not looking at things correctly, perhaps evading or rationalizing. Ok, fine, but as I said, everyone does ; that that's why we fuck up in the first place! So you go discuss your fuck ups (and, believe me, everyone has fuckups), you end up with these scoldings. And as I also said, they may often make good points, but the end result is only that the recipient feels dumped on and beleaguered.
Some of these people (maybe most) would be more tactful IRL. Or if someone they knew confided in them about something similar, they'd probably be more diplomatic. I don't mean dishonest or telling social lies, either.
This isn't going to change. The best thing you could do us not open up so much about the past in such a broad venue. Discussion is often quite cathartic- it can be good. But no matter where you went wrong, I cannot see that setting yourself up as a whipping boy is going to give you catharsis. It gets drowned in the other comments. Candor ' s all very well, but anger, rancor, etc, detract from any validity also being expressed.
When I exchanged posts with Virginia a while back, I was struck by the pain and remorse you both have been feeling.
What I'm seeing is that you, like every other human being, have flaws and areas you're maybe not looking at. That's not a poke at you; it's just how most people are. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have made mistakes and done the things we've done.
There's a hazard, therefore: when you talk about it here, people are naturally going to have opinions on it and they're go into want to express them. They may be right in the points they are making, but they are fucking up in one important way. Due to the bravery conferred on them by the dehumanizing buffer the Internet provides, they think little or nothing of explaining your life to you as if you had no feelings. They can see where you're maybe not looking at things correctly, perhaps evading or rationalizing. Ok, fine, but as I said, everyone does ; that that's why we fuck up in the first place! So you go discuss your fuck ups (and, believe me, everyone has fuckups), you end up with these scoldings. And as I also said, they may often make good points, but the end result is only that the recipient feels dumped on and beleaguered.
Some of these people (maybe most) would be more tactful IRL. Or if someone they knew confided in them about something similar, they'd probably be more diplomatic. I don't mean dishonest or telling social lies, either.
This isn't going to change. The best thing you could do us not open up so much about the past in such a broad venue. Discussion is often quite cathartic- it can be good. But no matter where you went wrong, I cannot see that setting yourself up as a whipping boy is going to give you catharsis. It gets drowned in the other comments. Candor ' s all very well, but anger, rancor, etc, detract from any validity also being expressed.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Also, there's far too much upset on this very subject (family breakdown) here for many of us to be of any real help, we can only "pick a side" and add an opinion, which may momentarily help (the side chosen) but will not be help either "side" in the truest sense ... with possible reconciliation.
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
I think their crazy pants uber-conspiracy blog that connects black diabetics, the Rothchilds, J.P. Morgan, Slavemasters, King Leopold, the New World Order, etc..ad infinitium.. to realize there is NO talking any sense to either Mike or Virginia.
But it looks like they had the effect they desired, which was to drive away Tom from posting any further on ESMB. With all the earth shattering conspiracies to rule and enslave mankind they are uncovering on their blog its amazing they have all this time to worry about petty family drama on ESMB.
But it looks like they had the effect they desired, which was to drive away Tom from posting any further on ESMB. With all the earth shattering conspiracies to rule and enslave mankind they are uncovering on their blog its amazing they have all this time to worry about petty family drama on ESMB.
Lone Star
Crusader
Awesome! Do they discuss the evidence pointing to the very strong likelihood that Barbara Bush is actually the daughter of Aleister Crowley?
If so then I am down with it!! Oh yeah!
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
If you don't mind reading a conspiracy blog that makes the Encyclopedia Britannica look brief I'm sure you will find it.
"V"
Patron with Honors
Heavily documented articles at our blog, like this for example:
The Covert Origins of Dianetics – Biological Psychiatry
Sorry, no Rothschilds, no Reptilians there, just shredding of Hubbard, scientology, and dianetics. But there are slavemasters, in the truest sense of the word, talked about. Yep, it's true.
Or maybe this one -
Robert Florczak regarding Dive Bomber and L. Ron Hubbard
Nope, no "conspiracy theories" there either.
or how about this one -
Ewen Cameron and Ron Hubbard – Two Peas In A Pod
Damn. More documents. Ain't that a bitch...
The Covert Origins of Dianetics – Biological Psychiatry
Sorry, no Rothschilds, no Reptilians there, just shredding of Hubbard, scientology, and dianetics. But there are slavemasters, in the truest sense of the word, talked about. Yep, it's true.
Or maybe this one -
Robert Florczak regarding Dive Bomber and L. Ron Hubbard
Nope, no "conspiracy theories" there either.
or how about this one -
Ewen Cameron and Ron Hubbard – Two Peas In A Pod
Damn. More documents. Ain't that a bitch...
