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Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Because he was selling the way out of the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of being human and people wanted it to be true. It's such a compelling thing that people will put up with a lot just for the chance that it might be true and as well there were plenty of people saying that it was true.

P.S. This sort of topic is exactly what this board is here for so if it doesn't make sense to you then feel free to leave.

Yes, I'm free to leave -- so are you. So was anyone who ever "joined" scientology, as the many who DID leave before they "lost everything" have proven.

Why would you think this topic doesn't make sense to me? I thought that asking the hard questions and looking at the uncomfortable truths about scientology, and our participation in it, was one of the main reasons forums such as this exists.

The question I've asked is a question no one has satisfactorily answered in all the time I've been reading (and posting on) this board, or any other. Plenty of people have said in one way or another, "the cult made me do it"; but almost no one has looked deeply enough at the question to uncover WHY they allowed the cult to make them do it.

It's not like the "brainwashing" that happens in a North Korean prison camp where a person is beaten every day and starved and held prisoner by chains and armed guards.

You have given (above) one of the most succinct and (apparently) hearfelt answers to the question of WHY that I've ever seen here.

Maybe your answer will help those who gave into the compulsion to better understand their own motivations, and thus guard against such "sales" in the future.

Maybe you'll get over your "kill the messenger" reaction of being upset at me because I asked the question. Or not.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I'm free to leave -- so are you. So was anyone who ever "joined" scientology, as the many who DID leave before they "lost everything" have proven.

Why would you think this topic doesn't make sense to me? I thought that asking the hard questions and looking at the uncomfortable truths about scientology, and our participation in it, was one of the main reasons forums such as this exists.

The question I've asked is a question no one has satisfactorily answered in all the time I've been reading (and posting on) this board, or any other. Plenty of people have said in one way or another, "the cult made me do it"; but almost no one has looked deeply enough at the question to uncover WHY they allowed the cult to make them do it.

It's not like the "brainwashing" that happens in a North Korean prison camp where a person is beaten every day and starved and held prisoner by chains and armed guards.

You have given (above) one of the most succinct and (apparently) hearfelt answers to the question of WHY that I've ever seen here.

Maybe your answer will help those who gave into the compulsion to better understand their own motivations, and thus guard against such "sales" in the future.

Maybe you'll get over your "kill the messenger" reaction of being upset at me because I asked the question. Or not.

I'm not upset. Peace. It just seemed to me you were perplexed at the response to this OP and chose an antagonistic path to it. Like I said that IS what this board is for.

I don't want to get into "tech talk" and talk about BPC blah, blah, blah, but it is interesting to see the how much of a reaction there was to hearing that the old fart admitted one of the most insulting/assaulting parts of the drech was just to control people. Yes we all knew that but for whatever reason it still did something to hear it. Maybe because some of us still had some tiny doubt that the lie might be true? I don't know.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
They didn't have the choice, they were brainwashed. If you pay really close attention and concentrate real hard, you'll find that it is the topic of the thread.

I see that asking uncomfortable questions makes people uncomfortable. Who could have guessed that.

Brainwashing. I can see it's the title of the thread. My question, in case you couldn't tell, is right on topic because it's about the so-called "brainwashing" that is the subject of this thread.

With the exception of a few cases of people on the RPF, it's not like scientologists were held in prisons, threatened with death by armed guards, starved and beaten every day. There was always the opportunity to walk away, quit, refuse to submit, refuse to go along with the program. Yes, there were consequences.

Those who CHOSE to join up always did have a choice, as the many who joined and then CHOSE to leave scientology (and deal with the consequences) before they "lost everything" have proven.

And just so you don't misinterpret what I'm saying, I believe the children who were raised by scientologists with scientology beliefs are a group with separate issues. Interesting though, that even many of them saw through the B.S. and CHOSE to leave scientology.

The question is WHY, when they DID have a choice did they stay and submit to the "brainwashing" of the cult which, as you pointed out, is the topic of this thread? Oh, and thanks for pointing that out.

Maybe if you pay really close attention and concentrate real hard, and look into this phenomenon deeply enough, you can uncover the difference between those who saw it was B.S. and CHOSE to walk away before they submitted to the "brainwashing," and those who CHOSE to stay and go further and futher down the (it's a metaphor) rabbit hole into deeper and deeper brainwashing.

And there you might find the key to educating people so they will not willingly subject themselves to such "brainwashing." If you're interested.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Yes, I'm free to leave -- so are you. So was anyone who ever "joined" scientology, as the many who DID leave before they "lost everything" have proven.

Why would you think this topic doesn't make sense to me? I thought that asking the hard questions and looking at the uncomfortable truths about scientology, and our participation in it, was one of the main reasons forums such as this exists.

The question I've asked is a question no one has satisfactorily answered in all the time I've been reading (and posting on) this board, or any other. Plenty of people have said in one way or another, "the cult made me do it"; but almost no one has looked deeply enough at the question to uncover WHY they allowed the cult to make them do it.

It's not like the "brainwashing" that happens in a North Korean prison camp where a person is beaten every day and starved and held prisoner by chains and armed guards.

You have given (above) one of the most succinct and (apparently) hearfelt answers to the question of WHY that I've ever seen here.

Maybe your answer will help those who gave into the compulsion to better understand their own motivations, and thus guard against such "sales" in the future.

Maybe you'll get over your "kill the messenger" reaction of being upset at me because I asked the question. Or not.

I think I understand your question and why it doesn't seem to have been directly addressed, but I disagree that it hasn't been discussed and dissected, in fact I think that it has been many, many times from as many points of view.

The problem is in the complexity of the answer. My take on it it that the Hubbard system's design is set up to slowly rope a person in in stages of acceptance. There does not seem to be a cut-'n'-dry-apply-to-everyone level a person reaches where they suddenly decide to give there all to the CoS cult. Alice goes down the rabbit-hole and the amount of crazy accepted becomes greater the further in she goes.
I don't believe it can be simply put, the 'WHY' of why one would allow such manipulation to take you over.
Like going for a swim in icy waters, some jump right in from the start, others go in slowly bit-by-bit. Meanwhile some crazy bastard on the shore is yelling 'Hurry up, its not really cold at all, actually its quite warm!', or somethng akin to that.
If you haven't done so already I suggest you do some more reading, in particular Dr. Kent's most excellent study of the cult where he spends some time addressing the 'why' of accepting indoctrination.

In my opinion it is not so much the 'why' of the matter, it is the 'how' that is essential, and once you can understand that mechanism the 'why' of it becomes self-evident.

:cheers:

Edit> Some of the 'why' puzzle is very well explained here in post #33 by John Peeler in this thread> http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=543137#post543137
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Posted by Olska

snipped

The question I've asked is a question no one has satisfactorily answered in all the time I've been reading (and posting on) this board, or any other. Plenty of people have said in one way or another, "the cult made me do it"; but almost no one has looked deeply enough at the question to uncover WHY they allowed the cult to make them do it.


There would be many reasons but one thing had to be present IMHO in all (except second generation scientologists who really are placed in an appalling situation through no fault of their own) and that thing is gullibility.




:happydance:
 
It impinges because it proves that Ron wasn't just a self deluded do-gooder with his own mental/emotional control issues, who basically meant well but got some things in his tech wrong. It demonstrates that he was actively scamming people under the guise of doing mental therapy, then religious services, for profit. And he knew what he was doing was wrong, but ordered the practice covered up and continued to protect HIS PROFITS!

Wake up people! :)

(Not you, Thrakie :flowers:)
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm not upset. Peace. It just seemed to me you were perplexed at the response to this OP and chose an antagonistic path to it. Like I said that IS what this board is for.

I don't want to get into "tech talk" and talk about BPC blah, blah, blah, but it is interesting to see the how much of a reaction there was to hearing that the old fart admitted one of the most insulting/assaulting parts of the drech was just to control people. Yes we all knew that but for whatever reason it still did something to hear it. Maybe because some of us still had some tiny doubt that the lie might be true? I don't know.

Got it. I have been and still am perplexed and appalled at the behavior of some people who put up with/support the "scientology rules" to the degree they did and do.

Your answer makes sense.

Carried within your answer is some of the compulsion that can be found in another, too common, example of apalling behavior: the single mother who sacrifices her children to an abusive boyfriend because she is so desperate to have a man in her life.

(No gender bias intended -- maybe some single fathers do that too, with abusive girlfriends, I just haven't witnessed that.)
 

Bad Robot

New Member
Bill Frank's story about brainwashing

Thanks Roger, I totally agree with your perspective on this. I want you to know that even though we come from very different "camps" and life experiences, I really respect you and your skills as a counselor.

Basic socialization for kids in pre-school and kindergarten is to learn to control their negative and harmful impulses and to bring forward and encourage their helpful and cooperative impulses.

We are all capable of both, as part of being human. It's normal and natural. We are all human. We can work on ourselves to be the best humans that we can be, each according to his and her own best light to see by, which thankfully changes over time as we live and grow.

Nothing to be ashamed or astonished about, or to pay a ton of money for indoctrination about. :duh: The notion that we must transform humanity into some new species (Homo Novus) in order to survive is false and self-defeating. Yes, we all have both harmful and helpful traits and impulses that we learn to control and modulate as part of our basic socialization.

And yes, some of us are more highly socialized than others. :D Some of us are even over-socialized! :omg: (I put myself in that camp~ :p along with all the "helping professions", teachers, nurses, ministers, social workers, counselors, etc., having made a career out of helping others to further their own socialization! :blush:)

Scientology has always been all about mind control and making money, making more money, and making other people to make money, to paraphrase Ron. Brainwashing is a very apt title for the concepts being discussed in this thread. Chuckie's posting of that anonymous video is very appropo here. (I loved seeing the great, iconic Bettie Page again, that Texas cutie! She was totally untrained as a dancer, model or actress, but the camera sure LOVED her! God Bless her wherever she is! She has put a lot of smiles on a lot of faces! :D)

I just want to say this...my sense of it is that we're all gonna be all right. The harmful and criminal acts of Corporate Scientology WILL be stopped, as there are too many of us working to stop these from too many different angles for our efforts to fail. Our individual efforts might not succeed in certain instances, but collectively, BOY, are we WINNING at doing systems change advocacy about Corporate Scientology worldwide! :happydance:

I think even the die hard COS loyalists, the "true believers" (and I sense there are not many of them left) will eventually have to get on with real life, as the sinking ship of Corporate Scientology someday soon disappears out from under them. They are going to need our help when it does. I for one am here for them. :yes:

Even the ones who might call us "haters"! :thumbsup:

People can and do heal and recover from all kinds of traumas, wounds, betrayals and disappointments in life, and do recover from all kinds of indoctrinations. I see evidence of lots and lots of healing and growth shown over time by the members of this board, and elsewhere. :happydance:

Keep up the good work, everyone! :clap:

And sorry, I lost track of all the new members on this thread, but welcome Newbies! :happydance:

Sweetness, Thank you for this post. It totally resonates with me all the way through.
Marcy
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
It impinges because it proves that Ron wasn't just a self deluded do-gooder with his own mental/emotional control issues, who basically meant well but got some things in his tech wrong. It demonstrates that he was actively scamming people under the guise of doing mental therapy, then religious services, for profit. And he knew what he was doing was wrong, but ordered the practice covered up and continued to protect HIS PROFITS!

Wake up people! :)

(Not you, Thrakie :flowers:)


I am not sleeping ... I have already said that (or very similar) earlier in this thread.

thread.http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=541926&postcount=12

 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It looks to me as if you need to go back for reprogramming, go see the extremely creepy man hold a pair of soup cans, he will help you get right

2qxaxw2.png

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. That photo is a freaking nightmare!


15 YEAR OLD
(rushes into house, excited!)
Hey Mom! Hey Dad!
Today I met the coolest guy ever!
His name is Ron and he is going to help me.
He's got this cool machine and stuff. So anyways...
Can I borrow $ 360,000?
He's really an honest guy.
Here, look at his photo.....
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

RON: The Early Research Years

E-Meter Tech Breakthrough!


2qxaxw2.png


"Here, let's try soup cans. I think those toilet paper rolls
we're using are not going to help us find any aliens."

 
Not you, honey!

I am not sleeping ... I have already said that (or very similar) earlier in this thread.

thread.http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=541926&postcount=12


I didn't mean you either, Trouble! :rose:

Or 99.9 % of all of the other ESMB members here :wave:

Was mostly meant for those Lurkers still on the fence, those still pretending to "be in", but not really feeling it anymore, just going through the motions as the path of least resistance, OSA bots, etc... You all know who you are! :yes:

And I mean "Wake Up!" in the sense that Gurdjieff meant it! :thumbsup:
 
Also, Denial is not just a river in Egypt!

Got it. I have been and still am perplexed and appalled at the behavior of some people who put up with/support the "scientology rules" to the degree they did and do.

Your answer makes sense.

Carried within your answer is some of the compulsion that can be found in another, too common, example of apalling behavior: the single mother who sacrifices her children to an abusive boyfriend because she is so desperate to have a man in her life.

(No gender bias intended -- maybe some single fathers do that too, with abusive girlfriends, I just haven't witnessed that.)

Olska, I think you touched on another reason that is also really a very big part of the glue that keeps some people stuck to doing Scientology for far too long, past when other people would get up and do leave...that is denial. Much the same as why a person sticks around in an abusive relationship too long, or stays in a bad job too long, or in any dysfunctional group, etc.

(Hypothetically) A person thinks this group they joined is so good and great for various reasons that resonate with them at first...they go along for awhile, and then when they see or experience some outpoint; fraud, lying/cheating behavior or outright abuse, at first they are startled, shocked, and think to themselves "well, this can't be the group or the system as a whole, this is just a mistake," and they rationalize it away with denials of various kinds, such as misapplication of the tech, hidden SP's, maybe I'm pts, they must have done something really bad to deserve it, or maybe I didn't really see what I thought I just saw? and maybe when I get to that level I'll really understand it, etc.

Denial is a very common human practice, and serves us in some way as a defense mechanism to tolerate what we otherwise wouldn't (and no-one should have to tolerate), until we are strong enough psychically (by which I mean strong enough mentally/emotionally/spiritually) to make a positive change by drawing and defending some healthier boundaries, negotiating better treatment, or just by making a huge change in our lives and leaving a bad situation. It doesn't just happen in cults, it happens in churches (pipe down Chuckie! :D~ I'm reading your mind! :p), schools, businesses, groups, marriages and relationships, etc.

I think it is a little bit more so in mind control cults (which Corporate Scientology clearly is) because people are trained and indoctrinated not to think independently for themselves, but to accept the groupthink as their own, and also not to act independently in their own best interests, but to put the group's needs above their own or their families needs. After all, they think they are saving all mankind...isn't that worth a few sacrifices? (That's a good example of the rationalization that denial brings in it's wake).

I think we all tend to do it in greater or lessor ways, until we learn about it and choose not to do it! IMHO :)
 
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RogerB

Crusader
We?

Speak for yourself Roger, the above is not applicable to me.

:unsure:

Either your grammar is rotten, or you just like being pugnacious.

I am writing to Rae, and speaking me to him about our having gotten conned in.

That "we" does not mention or draw in any notion of "everybody" and "all you" or "everyone" or such.

So, my dear, go take your attempts at trouble somewhere else :D

Those who wish to use the little bit of tech that has been put on this thread will benefit from it. Those who want to trash it will not benefit . . . it's a rather simple proposition :yes:

And let's be real, the thread and the opening post is a tech issue . . . if you don't like it or tech . . . . go where you don't collide with it. It's like, if you don't like porn, don't go into porn sites :yes: Even you once agreed with the good sense of that! :yes:

R
 
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TR'SIN

Patron with Honors
The first part of the answer is THEY DID NOT BLOW.

They escaped.

And they didn't escape because of their "case" (ArcX, O/W, etc...)

They escaped because they became smart enough or strong enough to escape.

Or thru sheer desperate self-preservation.

That ain't no ArcX.

That's sanity.

A nice take on the main thought of this thread. And it brings to mind that I am glad I happened to be back to visit and saw gwells original post. Also, that I'm glad Emma stuck around, this kind of discussion over 3 days is quite brilliant.

Welcome to the Board Mr. Franks and Marcy.

Thanks for all the enlightening views from so many posters who haven't been around in a while. Ladybird, Lakey, Sir Ralliant, Ulf and Chuck Beatty come to mind. And good stuff from Roger and Hella as always. Mystic never fails to remain a constant even if I don't always agree.

I believe in the importance of seeking others views - for one thing, I might have it all backwards. Seeing how others see things is helpful in broading my thinking. And I have my own opinion about the whole topic of Scientology/LRH/et.al! The stories of old-timers puts my experience in prespective and I have needed that in the past.

I put that as simply as possible due to my bad habit of very often talking too much.

Overall a meaty thread.:thewave:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Email Gerry Armstrong, he's posted, I believe, the dox showing the list of settlements given to people. I think Mayo only got 1.2 mil if I recall.

Gerry's email is at his site.

Here ya go: http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a1/flynn-client-settlement-agreement.pdf


Anybody here been in group therapy before? The kind where people sit together in a circle and run their shit up the flagpole for others to read / look at / evaluate? There are some benefits to be obtained from such sessions, but they can also be destructive, not to mention irritating as shit.

In fact, group therapy is tailormade to generate "wrong indications" and whatever else it is that causes you to want to haul off and bitch slap everybody in the room because they are so fucking stupid and do not GET YOU!

A complicating element in group therapy is that everybody's working from their own unique problem or trauma toward their own recovery, even if the group was organized to focus on a common topic like "Marriage" or "Alcohol Abuse" or "Recovering from Having Been in a Cult."

My marriage is nothing like your marriage was. My alcohol abuse was quite different from yours. My cult experience, even if it was the same cult during the same time frame and I played a similar role to yours, was unique to me. And to the extent our experiences in the cult varied, boy do I have a different take on things than you do.

Thereafter, bitch-slapping is inevitable.

But still, it's not very kind.

Therefore, I apologize for bitch-slapping anybody here lately. I'm now sitting on my hands.

TG1

tl;dr My deal ain't yours. And yours ain't mine.


TGI --- I give you Mystic's bitch-slapping post!
(Did I miss something? Who did she bitch-slap?? :confused2:)
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
TGI --- I give you Mystic's bitch-slapping post!
(Did I miss something? Who did she bitch-slap?? :confused2:)

Thanks, Arthur. Is all OK. And thanks for Mystic's favorite gif.

No, I prolly didn't bitch-slap anybody too bad. The point I was trying to make (too subtly?) was that on a big bad topic like this with so many people with dramatically varying perspectives (because they had such varying experiences) it's guaranteed that the "right indication" for one person will be way off the mark for others. Seemed for a while there like, "Jane, you ignorant slut!" and "No, you!"

TG1
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
I already knew that LRH used the O/W tech (as well as several other mechanisms imbedded in his "tech") to control people.

I've known that for some long time now -- for the 30+ years since I routed off staff. The fact that LRH actually admitted that to someone doesn't make it any more "real" to me because it was already "real" to me.

What I still don't know is:

why would people ALLOW themselves to be controlled by someone (LRH or anyone else) in this way?

...when all along they had the choice to walk away.

Why they would put up with it, year after year, $ after $, separation after separation due to "disconnection" policies? why would grown adults follow "orders" regarding important life issues given them by preteen children and teenagers? why would they consign their children to the Sea Org (or just turn them out and abandon them to the street, as some have done) to serve LRH and scientology? why would they engage in all the other appalling behaviors we've seen documented over the last couple of decades in order to serve LRH and scientology?

The fact that "LRH controlled them by telling them they had O/Ws" is, for me, an inadequate explanation for why people allowed themselves to be controlled and behaved as they did.

But if hearing this tidbit (that LRH actually admitted his true intentions to someone whose name you know) helps you get free of the LRH mindfuck, then I'm all for it. Hip hip hooray.

This, from Robert Vaughn Young (r.i.p.), is about the best statement I've run across on the subject. I'd highly recommend reading his entire article (see link) if you haven't already.

Robert Vaughn Young said:
<snipped>

After that I realized that for the first time I had a model that
I could use in the most difficult situations and the understanding
would be based on that person’s grasp of the situation of the abused
woman. With this model/analogy, I could go on the “Oprah”
show and with that response she would get it, as would millions
of women watching the show. Nothing else would be needed. There
wouldn’t have to be arguments about “mind control” or
“brainwashing” and if it really exists. Abused women exist
and whatever keeps them there or brings them back, it happens. That
fact cannot be denied.

Now that I’ve made my point, let me expand it. In my opinion, this
model/analogy extends much further than the control of a cult. I
think it can be found in jobs where the person feels trapped and
wants to leave but can’t. There might be a difference that the “boss”
may not try to talk them back, but I think this model/analogy goes
farther than merely cults and abused women. That would be up to
others to pursue. My point is that I’m not targeting Scientology.
The model worked for me in my situation and I think it would help
others who have had difficulty understanding the “control”
they felt. It helped me because it lifted out of the subjects of
“mind control” and “brainwashing” and told me
that it was not exclusive to the cult. In turn, I understood – or
at least sympathized – with the plight of the abused woman. I no
longer wondered why they stayed or returned. I didn’t have an answer,
but I was no longer puzzled.

At my last deposition in Tampa, there was a point where this came
up. I don’t recall what it was but I was asked something that prompted
me to say that I thought the abused woman syndrome was a good model
for what I had experienced. Of course, there were the guffaws and
laughs of severe denial from their part. It is to be expected from
the abusers, isn’t it? No abusive husband admits to it and no abusive
cult will either and for the same reasons.

Before closing, let me make a couple more points of parallel.
No abusive relationship starts that way. In fact, the chances are
that if the guy had slapped her on the first date, there wouldn’t
be a second one. No, the abusive relationship starts with sweetness.
When I was reading about abusive relationships, that came up constantly,
how the guy was so nice and sweet. No, the abuse is gradual. It
starts with some criticism and when the woman accepts it, then there
is a little bit more. When she accepts that, the man does more as
he introduces CONTROL. If she protests, he backs off until he can
reestablish the control. It is called a GRADIENT. (Ironically, Scientologists
will be familiar with that word.) The woman comes to accept more
and more and becomes convinced that it is something SHE is doing
wrong. As it is increased, the sweetness tapers off until it is
finally dangled in front of her like a carrot. Somewhere along the
line, the physical abuse starts. If she breaks too hard, he is sweet
and comforting and maybe even apologetic, bringing her back under
control. That is the key. CONTROL. (Another word Scientologists
know well. Hubbard even had his own definition for it and processing
addressing control.) Then one day the beatings are regular and she
loses her self-respect and dignity.

Let me draw another parallel to my own situation. I mentioned
in one of my other posts to ARS that I am making with this one about
the woman who asked me if there was anything anyone could have said
to me to change my mind while I was in Scientology. No one had asked
me that and I realized – and told her – that no, there was nothing
anyone could have said.

That happens with the abused woman too. I read how they would later
recount the advice of friends who kept telling them that their
husband/lover was abusing them and that they should leave.
I don’t recall any who said, you know, you’re right! I’m going to leave him!
No, they explained the abuse! They would say – actually believing it, until
they finally escaped – that he was really a nice guy, that he was
misunderstood, that he was trying, that they would work things out,
etc., etc., etc.

You know who usually changes the woman’s mind? The abuser. Those
who flee – like Tina Turner – simply say one day, I’ve had enough,
and escape. Some do it sooner. Some later. Until that moment, they
rationalize their situation. Friends or family might be able to
intervene but not in the hard core cases. In those instances, the
abuser is the only one who can change the person’s mind.

Until then money and resources are also a factor. People stay in
abusive situations because they have no money or anywhere else to
go. Maybe if the abused woman had $100,000 in the bank she would
have given him the finger and taken off long before. But what abuser
would allow the woman to keep that money for herself? (I have yet
to learn of a Sea Organization member who escaped with ample personal
resources. The amount of money one has on joining – if any – is
quickly discovered and one is convinced to spend it on the cult,
thus effectively wiping out any resources.) These are the points
that have to be researched to understand this phenomenon and to
offer help.

Meanwhile you might ask, how can a person rationalize a beating?
Good question indeed. If the plight of the abused women had been
known longer than it has, maybe we would have a better understanding.
Each woman will have her own answer but until we get a grasp of
it the fact remains that it exists and there are some disturbing
parallels between them and cult members. I wasn’t “abused”
when I joined. It was like the “love bombing” found in
another cult. Everything is wonderful and the future is bright and
this is the place to be. Then one day, there is a little “correction.”
If one balks, one is talked through it gently until it is grasped
and one is willing to accept it. The next one is attached to that
one. (“Remember how well we did last time when you were able
to understand it and you had a win?”) And the next until one
day you find yourself working 12 hours a day at hard labor, under
guard, seven days a week, unable to talk to friends and family,
your body racked in pain and undergoing constant interrogation to
give up your “crimes” and you accept it as necessary for
your own “rehabilitation.” And if you try to escape and
they catch you, you can be talked back to the very same situation
and you convince yourself that this is right as you haul the next
load of rocks out in 110 degree heat and a blazing sun for $5 a
week. It is all part of your “rehabilitation.”

No, when people asked me how I could stay for so long when I knew
it was abusive, that’s a loaded question. I didn’t know it any more
than the abused woman knew it. I kept telling myself that they really
are okay, that it must be my fault, that it is being done to help
me and things really will get better. I carried that attitude right
into the RPF until one day I broke and decided to escape. Then they
talked me back and I was convinced that it would get better. All
they did was back up the gradient to where I would accept the control.

That is another place where I find that the “mind control/brainwashing”
models break down. It is crucial in cult control that the person
feel in control and in fact IS “in control.” One is always
making the decision to stay. To that degree, it is “consensual.”
But how “consensual” is the abused woman? Just because
she has the freedom to drive to the store and back and no one is
keeping her in chains, does that mean she is “consenting”
to her situation? Can the husband argue that he isn’t “controlling”
her because she has that freedom? Then what IS “consent”?

That may be a legal quandary as much as a psychological one but
I don’t think we are ready to walk away from the woman being beaten,
saying she is “consenting to it,” are we?

Thanks to video cameras, we can watch shows like “Cops”
where the police are called out to a real life “domestic disturbance.”
If you have watched that show enough, you finally saw the all-to-familiar
scene of the woman with a bloody nose who has clearly been beaten
(the cops were called by neighbors hearing the fight) and is standing
there explaining it all away, insisting that the police take no
action. No, she’s fine, she says. No, it’s nothing. To the questions
from the police about the bloody nose or the swelling around the
eyes, she’ll say anything but the facts, that he was beating her.

Do we need more evidence? There are the very people – the police
- who can take him off to jail and end the abuse if she will simply
speak up and she refuses while wiping the blood from her nose or
pulling the torn clothing up around her shoulder and telling them
that everything is okay. Of course, the police cannot legally intervene
unless she complains and she will not.

Now let me make a harrowing admission. If the police had shown
up that day when I was at the motel trying to escape, when the security
guards were parked outside to make sure I didn’t disappear on them,
and if the police had asked me if everything was okay or if I needed
any help, do you know what I would have said and done? The same
thing as that woman. No, it’s fine, I would have said. I’ll handle
it. It stuns me to think it, let alone say it right now, but that
is the truth. That is exactly what I would have done. And do you
know why? Because I didn’t want to be in trouble with the cult.
If you can figure that one out, give it to the experts.

That is why people who flee the cult – even into the arms of the
authorities – can be talked back. They can no more say “help
me” than the woman standing there with a bloody nose can tell
the police. Give them a few days rest and time to get their wits
about them and maybe they can. That is why those first few hours
or days are crucial. The more time the person gets away from the
person suppressing them, the more they recover their own sense of
self. That, of course, infuriates the abuser, until he/they finally
give up and look for their next victim. Meanwhile, some degree of
control remains until the person finally sheds it.

And don’t think that all abused women are abused physically. The
abuse might be merely verbal, with other controls like control of
money, sleep, clothing, friends, beliefs, free time etc. (Gee, sound
familiar?)

Now if one were interested in studying the “abused woman”
syndrome, who would one study? This may sound like a ridiculous
question but it goes to a point the cult is making.

First of all, one has to decide if such women exist. (This may
sound like I’m contradicting myself but hang on.) How does one decide?
The obvious answer would seem to be the stories of women themselves.
But can we believe them? Maybe they are making it up. So let’s ignore
them for the moment and go to marriages/relationships and ask the
women, are you abused? Let’s ask the men, are you abusing this woman?
What sort of answer will we get? Done in this way, we can conclusively
“prove” that there are no abused women because all of
the women – including the ones with the bloody noses – will deny
it as will the men. Case closed. No woman is abused.

That is exactly what the cult is doing. They are saying that those
who have left and claim abuse are “apostates” (one who
has abandoned one’s belief or cause) and can’t be believed. (They
even paid some “experts” to “conclude” this.)

Meanwhile, they will suggest, all you have to do is ask Scientologists
if they feel abused. In fact, you can even go into the RPF and ask
and chances are (unless there is one rocky one who will be quickly
stashed somewhere else) they will respond to the man and woman that
they are not being abused. Case closed. No one is abused.
In other words, as long as we listen to someone who has abandoned
a belief or a cause (from a marriage to a “religion”)
cannot be believed.

And that is one of the reasons why abused women were not believed
until just a few years ago. Think on that. Women have been abused
for thousands of years and it wasn’t until a few years ago that
it was even admitted that it happened and that something should
be done about it. How many women went to the police and were turned
away or were killed or destroyed before someone believed them? How
many have simply fled and disappeared and are still too ashamed
to talk, preferring to just live quiet lives where they can choose
their own friends, have their own bank accounts, pick their own
meals, select their own clothes, keep private diaries and not have
to answer or explain themselves again? Can anyone imagine what a
joy that is to a person whose life was controlled down to the point
of what it was they could say or believe, where their very thoughts
and opinions were monitored, that they can now forget it? How many
women are out there? Compare that to how many go to the authorities
or champion the cause of abused women and take it to the media and
the courts. How many of THOSE are there? Three? Five? Ten? Should
these “apostates” be believed?

How many ex-cult members are there? How many have of them have
spoken out? Three? Five? Ten? Should these “apostates”
be believed?

I think there are many, many reasons to draw a parallel between
the two groups not only in their situation but in those who speak
out and I hope that this might spark some interest within some professional
circle. I’m no more an “expert” on sociological parallels
than that woman with the bloody nose is an expert but we do have
a level of understanding.

Robert Vaughn Young
2/22/00
copyright (c) Robert Vaughn Young
all rights reserved


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