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For the Rathbun "Believers"

Mick Wenlock said:
So the alignment is, then, Freezone and the CofS against the critics.

Good to know where we all stand.
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No matter how much lipstick Freezoners try to put on Hubbard's pig ... at the end of the day, it's still a pig. Hubbard never intended his "Tech" to be anything other than create members to support his cult, anyone who doesn't understand this, simply does not understand what Scientology is all about.
 
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn said:
No matter how much lipstick Freezoners try to put on Hubbard's pig ... at the end of the day, it's still a pig. Hubbard never intended his "Tech" to be anything other than create members to support his cult, anyone who doesn't understand this, simply does not understand what Scientology is all about.
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Agreed!!

What I find interesting is the subtle admission that the FZ are just CofS wannabes.
 
Terril park said:
If you consider that Marty is trying to get people out of COS he is
doing the right thing.

On freezone forums, all members are in fact officially "SPs", you cannot say
anything bad about Hubbard without causing an uproar. Most policy is in fact supported, and the general view is that its DM who is the only bad guy.

What I just said would apply even very much more to most in COS. It
may well apply to Marty.

If getting people out of COS is deemed a good thing, he is going about it the right way. He's even got some TV programs going, which I've yet to see.
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Are you of the opinion that what Marty is doing is good because it might route people to the Freezone? I think what will happen is that he won't because he's looking to build the Martyzone. You may be in for a disappointment. Also. if you want to know why Miscavige is such a brutal person, look to Hubbard and his written policies. Smilla.
 
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HelluvaHoax! said:


I was a cult leader to over 8 million Scientologists who literally followed me everywhere. But, as Hubbard experienced, they all likewise betrayed me and blew.

If you don't believe me look at my Solo Nots folder.
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When those BT's pick up a body and come to you for more auditing, will you oblige them further? If not, it will have to be Marty :omg: Smilla.
 
I find it interesting that while Marty is really out there pushing his new, improved Acceptable Truth, Mike Rinder has at most allowed his name to be used, shown up in some photos and barely squeaked out an acknowledgment that, yes, both Marty and Davey hit him.

There is more going on behind the scene than *anybody* involved wants known.

And, I don't mean that I think Rinder is talking to the cops.

Zinj
 
The Anabaptist Jacques said:
Folks,
It is very difficult for me to write this as I have been in the hospital and am very ill. I haven’t been able to read much of this, or any other thread. And this may be the last thing I write for a long time to come.
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I'm sorry to hear this. Please take care of yourself.
 
Mick Wenlock said:
So the alignment is, then, Freezone and the CofS against the critics.

Good to know where we all stand.
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No. People are individuals. There are some Freezoners who, as Terril says, think the only things wrong with CofS are those which originated with DM. There are quite a few who don't say or think this at all. I've seen many posts here and on FZ forums where people have stated that Hubbard had real problems and is responsible for many bad things and that there are problems with some policies themselves.

Many non CofS Scn'ists are critics.

So, no, Mick, that's not "where we all stand".
 
Voltaire's Child said:
No. People are individuals. There are some Freezoners who, as Terril says, think the only things wrong with CofS are those which originated with DM. There are quite a few who don't say or think this at all. I've seen many posts here and on FZ forums where people have stated that Hubbard had real problems and is responsible for many bad things and that there are problems with some policies themselves.

Many non CofS Scn'ists are critics.

So, no, Mick, that's not "where we all stand".
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Yes it is Claire - you just keep wearing the blinkers dear, you'll be fine.
 
Mick Wenlock said:
Yes it is Claire - you just keep wearing the blinkers dear, you'll be fine.
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I'm sorry, Mick, I can only judge a person's stance and point of view by what his or her stances or points of view as expressed by them in written, phoned, IRL and other communications is/are. I realize that's a really novel way to ascertain what someone thinks and that it's unparalleled in the annals of history, but, hey, maybe I can start a friggin' precedent. Not a president, tho'. :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p
 
Mick Wenlock said:
So the alignment is, then, Freezone and the CofS against the critics.
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Not at all. The uproar that Terril remarks upon is mostly due from the passionate feelings of the few Hubbard partisans who actively post on freezone forums. Just as with ESMB their frequent postings out-weigh their actual influence upon the individual opinions held by freezoners generally.

As to where you stand, that's for you to decide.


Mark A. Baker
 
Mark A. Baker said:
Just as with ESMB their frequent postings out-weigh their actual influence upon the individual opinions held by freezoners generally.
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That was a very 1.1 comment that you made against the very Bridge to Total Status that ESMB is built upon.

Moderators! SEIZE HIM!

We must always seek to rid ourselves of SPs like this who try to undermine our technology. The very survival of Mankind is at stake.
 
The Anabaptist Jacques said:
Folks,

It is very difficult for me to write this as I have been in the hospital and am very ill. I haven’t been able to read much of this, or any other thread. And this may be the last thing I write for a long time to come. So here goes:

Proverb:

Fool Alonzo once; shame on you.
Fool Alonzo twice; then you must be Marty Rathbun.

Marty Rathburn is Scientology’s version of Hermann Goering. I just saw him on Nightline and the way he talked and acted he reminded me of Goering and Ribbentrop on trial at Nuremberg. I don’t think anyone who was a victim of the Nazis needed to hear and join with Goering in order to understand that Hitler was bad. Why should anyone trust Goering?

I know it is a cliché to compare Miscavige and Scientology to Hitler and the Nazis, but I do it here for clarity of emphasis, not to compare degrees of evil.

If Miscavige had left Scientology and then complained about Rathbun who was now the head, would you consider Miscavige a friend?

A pox on both their houses. Miscavige and Rathbun are opposite sides of the same coin. And it is a bad penny.

Just expose Scientology for what it is; you don’t have to set up another cult of personality to do that.

In fact, when you support Rathbun you’re just helping to further the insidious aims of those people (like Miscavige or Rathbun) who wish to control and manipulate others. Rathbun has an impressive record of doing so.

Scientology is an effective tool for these kinds of people; they still use the methods of Scientology to control and manipulate people, just like Rathbun is now doing.

The destructive and evil element is Scientology. It is a tool for all would-be dictators. Don’t think by backing one dictator over another you will stop their destructive behavior.

Don’t take you eye off the ball and don’t get misdirected by siding with one punk over the other. Rathbun had his heel on the throats of many good people and he crushed them, and he did this for over twenty-five years.

For those supporters of Rathbun, I just want to show this scene from a film where the defense lawyer (Maximillian Schell) for a Nazi judge (Burt Lancaster) distorts the truth to defend the perverse justice of the Nazis. The defendant who earlier had suffered injustice at the hands of the Nazis is Judy Garland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HP1oiEhgaE

So to the supporters of Rathbun I ask: Are we going to do this again?


Adieu,
The Anabaptist Jacques
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Mutiny and questioning my orders - from a hospital bed!

Some of these people will never learn.

Moderators! SEIZE HIM!
 
Smilla said:
Are you of the opinion that what Marty is doing is good because it might route people to the Freezone? I think what will happen is that he won't because he's looking to build the Martyzone. You may be in for a disappointment. Also. if you want to know why Miscavige is such a brutal person, look to Hubbard and his written policies. Smilla.
Click to expand...

I think its good primarily because it gets people out of an abusive
organisation, and that's my main concern.

Marty dosn't seem especially friendly to the existing freezone. He moderated out my two posts on that subject. Others he let through. He
is in fact starting his "own" freezone. Eventually there will be better communication between the two " freezones".

I'd like to add that most freezoners are not particularly friendly towards the critical movement. The critics do spend a lot of time attacking the beliefs of scientologists, and their sanity even and much more, and one thus may not find such a viewpoint strange.

Those scientologists who have friendship and cameradie with critics are not so common, and most I believe are on this forum. They appear to share a quality of not being overmuch bothered by insults etc.
 
Terril park said:
I think its good primarily because it gets people out of an abusive
organisation, and that's my main concern.

Marty dosn't seem especially friendly to the existing freezone. He moderated out my two posts on that subject. Others he let through. He
is in fact starting his "own" freezone. Eventually there will be better communication between the two " freezones".

I'd like to add that most freezoners are not particularly friendly towards the critical movement. The critics do spend a lot of time attacking the beliefs of scientologists, and their sanity even and much more, and one thus may not find such a viewpoint strange.

Those scientologists who have friendship and cameradie with critics are not so common, and most I believe are on this forum. They appear to share a quality of not being overmuch bothered by insults etc.
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I do have to say that you have to have a pretty thick skin to be on many ex-Scn or anti-Scn forums and be a Freezoner.

You and Claire and others do pretty well putting up with what gets thrown at you, I must say. I don't know if I'd still be around. :)
 
Observing the Obvious

My forte' as a being is observing a being/s through the social veneer.

I could do it in spades before I even heard about Scientology.


Leaving aside whatever Marty is doing good, bad or indifferent,

my perception of Marty is that he is clearly dirty. Feels dirty,

Looks dirty, and is in fact Dirty.

We know some of what is behind that, but there is clearly more there.

Probably more than will ever be revealed, except maybe in his case folders.


I recall his attacks at events where he spoke some time back.

It just doesn't add up with him.


It is sort of amusingly funny that DM would beat on him (and everyone else)

for always more crimes when there were plenty there already.

Of course DM with "Continuous Overts and Withholds" (look at the reference)

would have that as his cause.
 
IMO, the problem here with the Independents and or Freezoners is not the fact that they will be forming groups that are free from abuse, but the potential will always be there for it no matter how you draw it.

"The Greatest Good, for the Greatest Number of Dynamics" is part and parcel of Scientology weather we like it or not. That phrase has been used to actually justify and kill people i.e., Lisa McPherson and others in the past. Just like Marty ordered the destruction of files/documents that would have been damaging to the Church in the McPherson case. The people held in the RPF or against their wills. The disconnection of families. The infiltration of the US governement. The lying and shady operations. All of these were done under the guise of "TGGFTGNODs." That was always Hubbard. You can't get rid of it. And it will continue to fester destructive and abusive actions by its own nature.

That is of course unless I'm missing some point of FZ and Independents logic. Do they believe that Scientology is the ONLY answer for mankind? And that if Scientology doesn't make it world wide we will all meet our ultimate demise eventually? That's what Hubbard strongly believed and that's why TGGFGNODs was enforced and why so many things were justified in the name of Scientology.
 
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