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I have a new opinion about Freezoners

Emma said:
No doubt this will polarize ESMB and I'll be struck from the Christmas card lists of the few FZers who "like" me, but at this point in time I couldn't care less.

I have a new opinion of FreeZoners. This is based on years of observation, interaction and one or two recent incidents that have pushed me over the edge.
And here it is.....

If you have the left the official church of Scientology, have had a chance to read all the information about Hubbard, the formation of the tech, the abuses, the history, the lies and betrayals Scientology delivers AND you have flittered around the FZ, had a chance to experience Scientology tech "outside" the official church and interacted with the key people in the Freezone and seen how these people behave and how the insanity perpetuates, and you still consider yourself a Scientologist THEN YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID.

There is no other explanation.

You are just fucking stupid.

Edit:

Clarification

I am referring to the active FZers who are Rons Org members, Pierre's group, Terrils yahoo group etc. I am NOT referring to the likes of Mike Goldstein, Roger, Paul etc who do their own thing and do great stuff.
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I heartily agree with ya, Emma! :yes: :clap:

I just know how and why they choose to go that route....and hope that they'll wake up one day from it, as well...:faceslap:
 
uniquemand said:
Scientology's results, of course, have not been tabulated or reproduced by an independent body of researches. Thus, your claims have exactly zero reliability or scientific value.

As regards to "exteriorizations", I doubt you can even operationally define what that means, nevermind prove it. Essentially, you are full of shit.
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Hey Unique, you're just a "glass is half full of shit" kind of guy:D

Love, Dex
 
uniquemand said:
Dude, get a clue. The parts of scientology that produce good results are directly ripped off from 100 year old psychology paradigms. The rest is syntax changes and smoke and mirrors.

Show me a motherfucking clear. Now fuck off.
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Does it really matter WHERE it came from? Most ologies are mish moshes of previous ones, anyway. Scn's no exception.
 
Voltaire's Child said:
Does it really matter WHERE it came from? Most ologies are mish moshes of previous ones, anyway. Scn's no exception.
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It does matter that it doesn't come from Hubbard. Dianetics was the foundational process that the Church is built on, and that people are familiar with. It is where the authority to offer other processes comes from. It is a direct plagiarization of Freud. Hubbard had exactly nothing original to offer. He had no authority, he did no research, and Scientology is built on his authority.

So, in this case, YES, it does matter where it came from.

You want to understand the power of running incidents in chains? Study Freud. Study Pavlov. Don't study Hubbard. He's a derivative charlatan who will spin you the wrong way.

Comparing him to science or scientists is a false equivalence. He was not a scientist, he was a stage hypnotist, a fraud, and a con-man.
 
uniquemand said:
It does matter that it doesn't come from Hubbard. Dianetics was the foundational process that the Church is built on, and that people are familiar with. It is where the authority to offer other processes comes from. It is a direct plagiarization of Freud. Hubbard had exactly nothing original to offer. He had no authority, he did no research, and Scientology is built on his authority.

So, in this case, YES, it does matter where it came from.

You want to understand the power of running incidents in chains? Study Freud. Study Pavlov. Don't study Hubbard. He's a derivative charlatan who will spin you the wrong way.

Comparing him to science or scientists is a false equivalence. He was not a scientist, he was a stage hypnotist, a fraud, and a con-man.
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But I don't CARE what the church was built upon. Only a churchie cares about that. The person to whom you were talking earlier also isn't a churchie.

I have studied Freud. I have studied Pavlov. I don't care. Ideas are ideas.
 
Sooo.....

At first I couldn't understand why Freezoners would be offended when Emma said that anyone who still believed in Scientology was stupid b/c my understanding was that-- by definition--Freezoners don't believe in Scientology.

But then I thought perhaps the Freezoners were initially as the Protestants were to the Catholic church, i.e.-practicing the pure faith as the Church had become corrupted--Martin Luther considered himself a faithful Catholic and is probably spinning over the "Lutheran" church.

But then I read Claire's comment about "taking the bits that work" and that's surely not Scientology, right? I mean that's more as the Church of England was to Catholicism and they never would've called themselves Catholic. ...:confused2:
 
MichelleAsWell said:
At first I couldn't understand why Freezoners would be offended when Emma said that anyone who still believed in Scientology was stupid b/c my understanding was that-- by definition--Freezoners don't believe in Scientology.

But then I thought perhaps the Freezoners were initially as the Protestants were to the Catholic church, i.e.-practicing the pure faith as the Church had become corrupted--Martin Luther considered himself a faithful Catholic and is probably spinning over the "Lutheran" church.

But then I read Claire's comment about "taking the bits that work" and that's surely not Scientology, right? I mean that's more as the Church of England was to Catholicism and they never would've called themselves Catholic. ...:confused2:
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Those that did so call tended to bad ends. State religions generally treat non-believers as traitors.
 
MichelleAsWell said:
At first I couldn't understand why Freezoners would be offended when Emma said that anyone who still believed in Scientology was stupid b/c my understanding was that-- by definition--Freezoners don't believe in Scientology.

But then I thought perhaps the Freezoners were initially as the Protestants were to the Catholic church, i.e.-practicing the pure faith as the Church had become corrupted--Martin Luther considered himself a faithful Catholic and is probably spinning over the "Lutheran" church.

But then I read Claire's comment about "taking the bits that work" and that's surely not Scientology, right? I mean that's more as the Church of England was to Catholicism and they never would've called themselves Catholic. ...:confused2:
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The Scientology FreeZone and Independent Scientology consist almost entirely of Xenu Bridge people. Non-believers are merely tolerated oddities, and almost anything can be overlooked if the person knew Hubbard, saw Hubbard lecture, or was in the same room with Hubbard, and breathed the same air as Hubbard; and it helps to have some laudatory "Ron" stories.

Most Scientologists want to do their "Bridge," and that's the Bridge of the 1970s and 1980s. It's taken two decades for the "bits and pieces" idea to sink in, and now it's an "acceptable truth" used by some Scientology Zoners to mollify curious outsiders.

Be careful not to confuse a PR-oriented Zoner, who uses the "good bits and pieces" idea as camouflage to mislead, with someone who sincerely does use the "good bits and pieces."

Usually, if the person is trying to convice another that the good bits and pieces are Scientology, that person is doing a PR handling on behalf of Scientology.

Just as some people take years to recover from the Hubbard mind-groping of (much, but not all of the) OT levels, so do some take years to recover from the need to defend and protect an airbrushed PR version of Scientology.

Scientology isn't called mind f__k for nothing. :)
 
uniquemand said:
Scientology's results, of course, have not been tabulated or reproduced by an independent body of researches. Thus, your claims have exactly zero reliability or scientific value.
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The same can be said of your entire education and indeed ALL the experiences of your life. Are we to conclude that your thoughts & opinions are therefore entirely unreliable? :whistling:


Mark A. Baker
 
MichelleAsWell said:
At first I couldn't understand why Freezoners would be offended when Emma said that anyone who still believed in Scientology was stupid b/c my understanding was that-- by definition--Freezoners don't believe in Scientology.

But then I thought perhaps the Freezoners were initially as the Protestants were to the Catholic church, i.e.-practicing the pure faith as the Church had become corrupted--Martin Luther considered himself a faithful Catholic and is probably spinning over the "Lutheran" church.

But then I read Claire's comment about "taking the bits that work" and that's surely not Scientology, right? I mean that's more as the Church of England was to Catholicism and they never would've called themselves Catholic. ...:confused2:
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Well, actually, she said that Freezoners were fucking stupid.
 
MichelleAsWell said:
But then I read Claire's comment about "taking the bits that work" and that's surely not Scientology, right? I mean that's more as the Church of England was to Catholicism and they never would've called themselves Catholic. ...:confused2:
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Actually the CoE does consider itself "Catholic" as well as "Reformed". An alternate name for the CoE is the Anglican Catholic Church.

As to freezoners & scientology, you might see my comments on the "new opinion ... esmb" thread #327.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=504255#post504255


Mark A. Baker
 
Mark A. Baker said:
An alternate name for the CoE is the Anglican Catholic Church.
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Bullshit. The Church of England is also called the "Anglican Church," but yes, it "understands itself to be both Catholic and Reformed." per this Wikipedia article.

The "Anglican Catholic Church" is some johnny-come-lately that "is a worldwide body of Anglican Christians in the continuing Anglican movement which grew out of the 1977 Congress of St. Louis" according to this Wikipedia article.

Paul
 
Voltaire's Child said:
Well, actually, she said that Freezoners were fucking stupid.
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I reread it. She said "and you still consider yourself a Scientologist..." [in spite of all the damning evidence...]

I don't know if willful ignorance is stupidity or not. Others have suggested "sick" or "crazy"--maybe that's more accurate.
 
Voltaire's Child said:
Well, actually, she said that Freezoners were fucking stupid.
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Actually that's not what I said.

There were quite a few qualifiers on my statement.

I know how you hate to be misrepresented Claire so you'll understand why I'd want to correct you.
 
Mark A. Baker said:
The same can be said of your entire education and indeed ALL the experiences of your life. Are we to conclude that your thoughts & opinions are therefore entirely unreliable? :whistling:


Mark A. Baker
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"entire education" Really? The Scio contempt for formal education is incredibly insulting...but you all tested genius, right?
 
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