Scientology Staff and Public Caste Systems

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Are you talking about Santa Clara on Stevens Creek?

i gave Clay his first job, after he was declared.

Kingsley was until his death, in good comm with me.

i never heard or sensed any of these things.

No. Don't know either of them.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Criminals tend to dehumanize their victims. Makes it easier to justify the crimes.

Guess the higher you go in a criminal organization the more inclined you have to be to dehumanize those under you to justify the criminal orders being given.

All those below you are less human, and the further down, the less human still.

Until that person hardly counts at all.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I was in a very small org in the Antipodes. There was more comradery than there might have been in big places. You tended to see the same public over and over, they might go offlines for awhile and then come back......so anyway, there was not the luxury of being able to be too uppity because the gene pool was too small. The public were not despised. Most Org staff had particular people that they were very friendly towards and this was very apparent even when those people were not present. Some of the staff really understood the realities of having to have a job, raise kids etc.....they were still doing that themselves.


This kind of thing was something management tried very, very hard to stamp out. It was considered "out ethics" for staff to have personal relationships of any kind with public.

It got really bad the last year I was in. I remember when Jenny Linson's mission was in PAC in 1996. One of the staff got in ethics trouble for having a conversation with a public person in the parking lot. I kid you not.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I joined staff in the early 80s in a PAC service org.

As a staff member in a Sea Org service org, I was smack in the middle of the food chain. Above org staff and mission staff and public, not to mention those despicable raw meat wogs. But below lower management and middle management and the hierarchy above that.

I have to say, I was really naïve in the beginning. I was Sea Org, right? In my silly little brain, I thought that meant that I was “on the same team” as everyone else in the Sea Org. We were shoulder to shoulder, working together for the purpose of freeing the world from the Reactive Mind.

A couple of years down the road, I was brought back down to earth with a major thud.

Like being-dropped-out-of-an-airplane-onto-a-concrete-lot major.

Long story; won’t bore you with the details. A guy from Int was in PAC on a project. A very senior guy. I was drafted to work on this project with him because of my specific skills.

We met. We connected. We fell in love.

I very quickly learned how peons were dealt with. His senior, a very senior messenger, called for my folders. She then briefed him on my “2D history”. (I won’t lie to you. I was kind of a wild one in my youth.)

I then have to answer his questions, this guy I just fell in love with, about the stuff in my auditing folder about my sex life previous to Scientology.

Just put yourself in my shoes. You love this guy, and you are now being questioned by him about stuff in your pc folder.

You can just imagine what it was like.

Amazingly, in spite of this, we hung in there for a little while. But, after a few months, it was over.

He had some big flap on post; it blew up. He was “handled” to break up from me. Since his involvement with low life scum was obviously his out ethics issue.

He was forced to come down to PAC to deal with me because I was so upset.

I said to him point blank: “I’m not good enough, for you, am I? This is really what all of this is about.”

He didn’t deny it.

So, yeah.

The caste system.

It does exist.
 
From what I understand, there is a caste system policy about marriages in the Sea Org. For instance, someone in RTC can't marry someone in Gold, or someone in CMO can't marry someone from an outer org, etc. (Independent of the fact that Mister Miscarriage has outlawed marriage all together, at least at the Int base apparently). So, you are forbidden to marry someone "beneath" you. And if you're already married and your spouse is in a lower org, I think you have to divorce them.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Good thread, TG1 . . . it should relieve a lot up angst, upset, grief and charge.

For me it's been an interesting exercise observing 56 years of $cn change and "development." :melodramatic:

Reading these responses, one must remark that the responses by each of the individuals are symptomatic of the "era" of the experience being recounted.

In the period 1957-60, in Sydney, the feeling was one of camaraderie among all . . . this based on the feeling that we were lucky enough to have discovered a workable "science" we could use to help ourselves and our fellows to enlightenment with. It was a start-up "Franchise" and then the beginning of the HASI in mid-1960 in those days. Everybody was considered valuable . . . and of course wise :ohmy: and so there was respect. And we just went about our business of serving the public who were wise enough to demand our service. In those days people ASKED to be on staff . . . almost as though seeking permission.

In the mid-sixties I was on staff in Melbourne. Again there was the spirit of team-ship and respect for each other as "on the ball" and enlightened, whether staff or public. The operating paradigm in those days was to help folks do better in their lives . . . whatever they did in life and/or however they chose to lead it.

Scientology in those days was "community." That was the scene in Oz, at any rate.

In London from around late 1965 till 1970 while publicly on lines or on staff before I went under cover for the GO, it was the same deal: there was respect and friendship between all who were "in the know" on the value of what we had.

Indeed, the basis of my success running Pub. Divs in London was that I respected and honored my FSMs because they were doing something valuable and helping not just our Org but doing the right thing to set society to rights. Indeed, my FSM team and I were producing more Div 6 stats than any Continental Zone of Orgs at the time. One of the things I got implemented was the HCOP that had been OUT . . . that of FSM Awards . . . there was hell to pay up lines getting it in, but it paid off: FSM were honored and rewarded, and we all won.

But 1968 was the beginning of the SO horror impacts on outer Orgs. It hit St Hill and the GO in the latter part of 1967 and London in April '68.

That's when the terror reign began. And that's when the mentality of them and us began to creep in and more and more intensify.

At FSO it was evident to a fair degree, but not too bad in 1979-80. But it intensified massively from then.

Coincidentally, I remember doing a trip around the US in April-June 1980 visiting all my US clients and calling into Boston Org along the way. I think I was the first or one of the first NOTs completions they'd seen. The instant think of the guys on staff was to have me as this "powerful OT, in-ethics guy" help them recruit on staff a a resistive individual to "see the light" and join staff. Man, those staffers were were solid on their rightness of the "right thing to do!"

With them present, I asked the guy, "What are you real deep down wants, dreams and aspirations for life?"

He mumbled something about being the musician he'd already had had some success at; at which point I said the the gang: "He should go do that. If you had me "overwhelm" him with my "OT powers" as you want, all you would have is a half-hearted disappoined staff member who would be off his basic true purpose and you'd be buying yourselves problems."

Man! Were they upset and disappointed with me!

It was my first experience of the new, seemingly, American scene of "all else is wrong than to be on staff as we are" thing. It was my first experience of the "them versus us" thing I would later see and which is now being expressed here on this thread.

By the time I was being Comm Eved in '82+, beginning in NYC, then Flag, etc., the "you are not one of us and therefore 'out-eth' and bordering on enemy" mentality from the SO was rampant.

Quite amazing to see how the fanaticism had developed and taken a hold of the SO and org structures . . . at least in the US where I was at that time.

In retrospect, it is to a degree understandable when you look at the incredible (even though unconscionably evil and stupid) sacrifices being inflicted on staff. It is understandable that they could think less of those who are not helping in the "noble cause" of saving the planet that they are on, and sacrificing and suffering so much to do so!

What a fuggen HOAX that whole paradigm and belief system is . . . Hubbard should burn in hell for a very long time for having created it and foisted it on his fellows: and all for his own evil self aggrandizement!

There is a lot more that could be written in analysis of the scene . . . but that will suffice for now.

RogerB
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
From what I understand, there is a caste system policy about marriages in the Sea Org. For instance, someone in RTC can't marry someone in Gold, or someone in CMO can't marry someone from an outer org, etc. (Independent of the fact that Mister Miscarriage has outlawed marriage all together, at least at the Int base apparently). So, you are forbidden to marry someone "beneath" you. And if you're already married and your spouse is in a lower org, I think you have to divorce them.


That policy did not actually exist at that time.

It actually would have been better - more "merciful" - if it had.

If he had just said from Day 1 "it's forbidden that we get involved".

Rather than the handling be that I was destroyed in his eyes to the point that there was no other choice than to dump me.

At least then it wouldn't have been so fucking personal.

You know?
 
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Gib

Crusader
I joined staff in the early 80s in a PAC service org.

As a staff member in a Sea Org service org, I was smack in the middle of the food chain. Above org staff and mission staff and public, not to mention those despicable raw meat wogs. But below lower management and middle management and the hierarchy above that.

I have to say, I was really naïve in the beginning. I was Sea Org, right? In my silly little brain, I thought that meant that I was “on the same team” as everyone else in the Sea Org. We were shoulder to shoulder, working together for the purpose of freeing the world from the Reactive Mind.

A couple of years down the road, I was brought back down to earth with a major thud.

Like being-dropped-out-of-an-airplane-onto-a-concrete-lot major.

Long story; won’t bore you with the details. A guy from Int was in PAC on a project. A very senior guy. I was drafted to work on this project with him because of my specific skills.

We met. We connected. We fell in love.

I very quickly learned how peons were dealt with. His senior, a very senior messenger, called for my folders. She then briefed him on my “2D history”. (I won’t lie to you. I was kind of a wild one in my youth.)

I then have to answer his questions, this guy I just fell in love with, about the stuff in my auditing folder about my sex life previous to Scientology.
Just put yourself in my shoes. You love this guy, and you are now being questioned by him about stuff in your pc folder.

You can just imagine what it was like.

Amazingly, in spite of this, we hung in there for a little while. But, after a few months, it was over.

He had some big flap on post; it blew up. He was “handled” to break up from me. Since his involvement with low life scum was obviously his out ethics issue.

He was forced to come down to PAC to deal with me because I was so upset.

I said to him point blank: “I’m not good enough, for you, am I? This is really what all of this is about.”

He didn’t deny it.

So, yeah.

The caste system.

It does exist.

so let me ask you, were you "clear" or above or had completed some grades auditing when this occurred?
 

Gib

Crusader
Very low on the Bridge, actually. I don't even think I had gotten my Grades yet.

ok thanks.

The reason I asked was, well, you know, as one goes up the bridge, one is supposed to become more ethical or whatever that means. So, one would think if somebody did some things in their past, why it wouldn't matter as one had gone up the bridge.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
ok thanks.

The reason I asked was, well, you know, as one goes up the bridge, one is supposed to become more ethical or whatever that means. So, one would think if somebody did some things in their past, why it wouldn't matter as one had gone up the bridge.


Well, I kind of thought it wouldn't matter because I'd given up everything to join the Sea Org.

Like I said.

I was really fucking naive.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
after the 1980's purge of the mission holders

(snip)

( I was gone long before)


I'd say the timing of your departure explains a lot about the length of your relationships with those in and out of Scientology.

Later on, things weren't so rosy. Loved your "panters" term. A lot.

TG1
 

Gib

Crusader
Well, I kind of thought it wouldn't matter because I'd given up everything to join the Sea Org.

Like I said.

I was really fucking naive.

me too.

When I joined staff in the late 1980's, why I thought everybody on staff were ethical, could read minds, could cause things to happen, I thought I was joining the winning team, and we were all helping each other up the bridge as well as public..

While CO2 mentions above the Sea Org cognition, I'm afraid that happens to public to join staff at a cl 4 org, as I did, had to join Ron's team.

I thought staff in cl 4 org's and SO were like gods.

Now I just :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Thanks for the stories thus far, guys.

Really didn't expect all this detail. It's really helpful.

TG1
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
after the 1980's purge of the mission holders

Clay Primrose
Kingsley Wimbush
so,,,

who took their place(s)?

the Woodruffs?

( I was gone long before)

Actually, at this point, I'm a little weirded out, as this almost seems like an attempt to 'out' my identity. And, these folks you mention are honestly nobody I ever worked with... had any connection with... or knew beyond some stuff that folks talked about squirrels through rumor lines while on (actually only heard the Kingsley-Wimbush stuff... no idea on Clay... I think this might be the de-dinging?---which I still have no idea what it was, but there were rumors it was some squirrel tech that had been run through some orgs).

It was just a blip on the radar as this Wimbush was a 'squirrel', and most of what I heard is after being out that I have seen from exes... All of this has nothing to do with me or my time in the cult. I'm mostly familiar from stuff I heard from other exes.

I'd be shocked if OSA didn't know who the fuck I am at this point, but that still doesn't mean I'm going to post it on the internet at this time. But, it does seem you don't know who I am or where I did my time because what you are posting means nothing to me beyond what I have heard about the Kingley Wimbush times. And Clay? No fricking clue who this person is. If you did know who I was, you wouldn't ask me because you would know I'd have no way of knowing about this stuff.

So, what is your point? If you want to know what happened with that mission or whatever, address it to someone who was there. Maybe you confused me with someone else?

Also curious why you changed your screen-name here... actually not so much; it just made me more go into WTF about your post.
 
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Back at FCDC in the early 1970s we had our own class system, not a caste system.

And I wouldn't call Scientology a caste system because that would imply that the people at the top would not go near the "untouchables" yet they in fact touch the untouchables for every cent they got.

We were a cocky bunch and while some of us had a respect for the commitment of Sea Org members, we thought they generally didn't have a clue to what was going on or how to do things.

Most of them seemed afraid of the public.

And while they did try to position themselves higher than us lowly staff members they went easy on us because we usually had a booming org despite their plans to make us do things differently.

Usually they were at FCDC to implement new programs or new Tech, like Expanded Dianetics or Integrity Processing or some other thing.

The programs that came from the Sea Org were disasters. They were totally out of touch with the existing scene.

Out own C/O, Dave Richards, would write his own programs and they were very successful.

We had a Flag Rep that went around trying to get compliances for Flag programs, but we would do the best we could to humor him on Wednesdays and Thursday before 2:00.

I went to the FOLO (later called (CLO) in New York several times on my own volition to complain about things.

One Sea Org HCO personel gave me a hard time and I told him "Hey, I pay your salary."

I think he didn't have a clue what I meant.

I think that because we were generally bigger than most orgs they had seen at the time they put up with more from us.

Staff had a friendlier attitude toward public then I saw anywhere else or even later.

Who we tended to look upon skeptically were the public who were OT.

We all thought they should know better and some of them did seem a little quirky.

As time went on I think the contempt for Sea Org members grew stronger. At least I know mine did.

Finally a mission came that contained only former FCDC staff. It was a very successful mission to say the least.

Then a year later a mission came with led by a punk who drove the org into the ground.

We may have laughed at times by what some of our public did and said, but we appreciated them.

And I think that is why we were so different.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm

This is a very good question - that lurker should investigate too.

My perception, at that time, being public, on staff, SO ws different than what it is now ,
from a distance, having done some cleaning in my mind with the truth from the BS.

However, I would say that definitely there is a cast system (the SO being a proof of it - Many are call few are choosen - élite corp)

It will be difficult for me to explain - but mainly, I would say that there is ''the subjective cast sytem"" what it appears to be
and the ''objective cast system'' - what it reveals to be when one dig or has won the journey through the '' higher levels of involvments''
In fact, from a public viewpoint, you think a SO is an Elite , very powerfull - he has been choosen to serve manking, and free the thetans, to salvage the planet - he is entitled the greatest amount of respect and admiration.
He gives an order, you say ''hi Sir'' - what he says is truth - he dedicates his life to make sure The Only Tech available willl save this sector of the universe.

The real thing, is that the SO is only a piece of shit - a slave - a robot - a thing - a mean to realize some plans -
he doesn't even deserves to be fed properly - to have toilet paper or soap - he is not allowed to sleep decent time - he doesn't deserves medical treatments when needed - he doesn't even have a tiny square feet of intimacy as he sleep in a dormitory nad when is is not ''functionning properly for what he has been programmes - he goes into the RPF - the prison till he is broken...

The SO is something you can yell at, hour after hour, day after day and bets - adults and children.

But,

Public in a org, sees a sea org , the one wearing his retard naval uniform -- and thinks it's like ''an officer and gentleman'' or a Tom Cruise moovie

A bit tough at the beginning , but then becoming the most respected people on the planet.

It's not - it's a dark universe - very dark

Also one might think that SO admire public and are there to make it go right for their services..??

Not really - the SO's life is tough and he sees public are having it easy , they only have to pay and get services.
Sometimes they beleive it entitles them to shake them to have them take responsibility for the planet and push them to contribute more in dollars or in joining SO (a public , when involved in higher process is a money provider - but can also be a feeding site for coacroaches if he or she is left dying in despair locked in a room. The important would be to hide it.

A staff...a staff is a cast that deserve nothing good
He serves the public - is is poor, have almost no salary , is constantly struggling for roaming and feed himself - it's impossible to make it go right unless the staff is walthy or have somedoby to look after his needs. He can't go up his bridge. He is the one who find the raw public and fill his org till the vulturs come in and take all their money or have them to fly to advanced org. The staff is regarded as something from a low cast as he is not giving a lots of money - not going up his bridge, not taking full responsibility for not enrolling the SO. An ED of an org is often the begger piece of shit to blame, to yell at , to sec check and to com ev and to declare.

The last cast his the upper management - there you can life an interesting life with money , till HE likes you and till you serve HIM. When it's over...it's over. You go back to the lower cast and clean the toilet in the prison. Too late if yo u the retard did not see things coming. But if you are a good Suckpuppet or completely broken into a brainswashed lonely desperate rondroide, whom forgot what living a life can be...then...you can make a shadow of a life there..till your get your cancer (the one they make sure you will get with the stress, lacks of sleep and good food, constant physical and psychological abuse)

Later on, you will loose your higher cast status as you will be put in a palliative home care , a home for indigents , left alone, with no friend or family member told about you will soon die. It is expecting from you - that for the greatest good of the greatest dynamics that you don't stell any cent from the church for being now a degraded pts being either for your care or your funerals that won't be.

You will be dispose off quielty - but we don't know how , with whom and where...we are not invited nor it is announced.

That's almost how I see the cast system of The Scamology and how the illusion of something admirable turns out to be miserable.

Despite our sories about it, some lurker will read, and has been told that this is entheta -
will be a bit shaken , but as he recognizes it is entheta, he will get these warning out of his mind tomorrow,
and will sign a billion year contract with a bigggggggggggggggg winnnnnnnnnnn on having done something so Thetaaaaaaaaaaaa . AS soon as he will be transfer on his new base , he will be given his new navy clothes to clean toilets and be yelled at..he will experience cognitive dissonance. It's not the ''officer nice uniform'' - really not.

Then, he will experience sadness, lonelyness, deception and may decide he will leave and blow or decide all he sees as abuses do not exist, it's only a restimulation because he he doing something grandiose - the MAA will force in his mind.

So he can start his journey and dream of reaching the higher cast - the one you make orders coem into reality - the cast there is nobody to yell at you ... Mistake....it doesn't exist...The reality surpass the fiction...The higher the cast the more are the abuses.

I am not in a good mood today - I guess it's evident:confused2:
 
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