Scientology was the subject...

[Oneflewover]

I'd suggest you push the issue of educating her. It's the only way you'll both win, is if she knows the truth. And if possible, I'd try to get her to see the source of the potential enturbulation is the implied threat from the church, not for the information she might see on the net.

My family is split right down the middle over this kind of shit. I should have acted sooner to take the churches power to meddle in my family away from them.

Kind of too late once the declares start flying.

 

[byte301]

We're here if you need us. Best of luck to you and your family.

 

[thetanic]

Okay, so there's a few separate issues here:

1) You can't control who she associates with; you can only change what you're going to do about it. The more you try to control what she thinks or who she associates with, the more you'll lose her. IOW, you'll be running a must-not-have on her, and she'll be running a retaliatory can't-have on you.

2) There are ways to communicate disagreements without being entheta, and you need to find those places and be gentle. Your daughter's future depends on it, and you need to do this for her, even though it's difficult for you. She's more likely to look if there's not the extra enturbulence.

3) Find a different outlet for your anger. Here, for example. Tell us all about your disagreements, but don't let it drive a wedge between you and your family.

4) Get a free consult with a divorce lawyer and find out what your state's laws are regarding custody and marital property. You may never need to use that information (and I hope you don't), but it may help you negotiate from a position of power rather than reacting.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

I think you guys/girls are right. I will keep checking in then be back permanently.
Thank you all!

 

[Div6]

I think you guys/girls are right. I will keep checking in then be back permanently.
Thank you all!

Wait! Your CSW has not been approved! This is an unauthorized Leave of Absence!








Good luck. Don't leave us hanging too long...

 

[Neo]

This is good advice

The gradient of awareness of info on the way OUT seems to be:

0. KSW, and getting in tech and policy in your area

1. Outpoints noticed in the justice/KR/ reporting procedures that should "not be happening" because "this isn't Scientology".

2. Data regarding current management, and how they need to be corrected. This can include a new awareness of changes made to the tech, or a sense that there is "squirreling" at the highest levels. You become aware of "Out-KSW" situations held in place by upper management.

3. You begin to see an almost "anti-LRH" stance by Miscavige and crew. You catch glimpses of rampant squirreling and might even begin to suspect DM is an SP.

4. You are sure that DM is an SP and has driven the Church of Scientology off the rails. You may begin to consider the Freezone - ONLY IF they can prove themselves to be TOTALLY LOYAL to LRH.

5. You begin to let yourself see outpoints in LRH himself, and not just the "we know he was not perfect" kind of thought-stopping. You recognize that he lied once or twice and that it wasn't just a "white lie" for promotion's sake - not lies for the good of mankind, either.

6. You start to see things were set up to be the way they are, and that LRH intended them to be that way - or else he would have fixed it at some point during the 36 years he was running Scn.

7. You realize that that you were totally deceived while you were getting into Scientology. And that had you known then what you know now, you would have never joined.

8. Bitterness, anger, revenge, militantly anti Scientology and anything, or anyone, that even reminds you of it.

9. Striving to get back the part of yourself you lost before you became a Scientologist.

10. The "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" phase. You remember that there were good things there that were fairly true. The reasons you were involved start to look legitimate to you. This does not necessarily mean that Scientology seems legitimate - only YOUR PERSONAL REASONS for becoming and remaining a Scientologist are starting to look legitimate. You weren't a complete idiot. You now understand yourself better.

11. Peace begins. You start to build a self that integrates everything you learned both before you were a Scientologist and while you were one, as well. You start looking to move on.

12. With all questions answered and all psychic trauma resolved, you disappear into the real world, and never look back, creating a new and beautiful life for yourself and those around you, wiser and more understanding of your own strengths and weaknesses and the strengths and frailties of others. You think about Scientology a lot less now.

13. You disappear in a flash of smoke and lightening, rising to heaven on a white stallion.

If anyone has reached number 12 above, let me know.

I'm not there yet.

Michael Pattinson wrote about something very similar to what you are referring to, IMO. Perhaps step 11?

From http://forums.enturbulation.org/24-personal-experience/cupcaeks-freedom-fully-leaving-cult-scientology-25497/

In my thread about leaving the fight against Scientology (from early August 2008)
This OG and Chanology phase3(+) - I can has a life nao pl0x?
I told Anonymous that I had stopped being a Scientologist over a decade ago but had joined the fight manned by the critics/activists on the internet and done my part (and more). This meant that I had not fully LEFT the cult as I still had to focus on it daily.

I think this may also apply to others who have been Scientologists and have exited but fully left. This new found freedom has been having some welcome and interesting results for me and I thought I would like to post them if and when they happen as a potential reference for others and for Anons to see what actually happens when a Scilon breaks fully free.

These little pieces of recovery are, to me, like cupcaeks of freedom as they are small yet delicious.

So, this thread is about me and my own experiences so I kept it out of General Discussion. Also, this thread is FOR Anonymous (and other exes), not aimed against Scientology, so the cult is not the focus of the big picture here.

If other "exes" have personal results from FULLY leaving the cult I would welcome their posts here too to create a record of epic win.

I have felt, myself, and have seen in other "exes" that the Scilon mentality tends to stick with the person like a shadow and be quite insidious and even causes some to act with it routinely without knowing they do. The Scilon mindset is an indoctrinated set of patterns designed to expand Scientology and shrink individual free thought. I recognized I still had some of that mindset remaining recently, much to my dismay, when others showed it so flagrantly in drama and bawww that I have seen frequently on forums that are full of exes. Anyhoo...

This week I got my first results from declaring myself FREE of Scientology and focusing on getting a life.

CUPCAEK #1 I woke up one morning last weekend to realize that I could now feel compassion for other people in a genuine way, not just on the surface, and this was the opposite of the Scilon mindset where "feeling compassion towards downstats (people who are not doing well) is a liability and they should be shunned and avoided". That had stuck with me for years, even after leaving. It felt wonderful to break free of that idiotic and cold-hearted mentality and to be open to all people whatever their lives were going through. In fact I feel more openness, compassion and love for other people now than I did since I was in the innocence of childhood over in the UK.
Deeeelicious!

I can has a life nao pl0x? (LOL)

Neo

 

[MarkWI]

Thanks for the support.
She wouldn't fight me on the stuff we own. She's not like that. But I need to start saving just in case something does happen.

I can't believe this is happening.

She will. If you will become openly critic, OSA will use her to fight and ruin you in all the possible ways, financially and mentally.
It is an overt to not turn an active SP into apaty and bankruptcy.

 

[Wisened One]

Good Luck, IKTM!

PLEASE start NOW saving money in a separate bank account, tho!

Just do at least THAT!

And I hope all things work out for the best for you and your family.

May OSA never fuck you!

I surround you in a protective white light.......

 

[C0NC3RN3D W06]

IKTM,

I read this thread last night and wanted to give you a little input of an idea of how to not allow your child to be lost in the process. One thing you may need to think about (and I'm not going to tell you how, but, I'm sure you have enough of a network to help you) is to perhaps send your child "underground" if necessary?

It's just an idea. One I would consider but not rush into, if I were you. I'm not sure if I'm helping, but, I care enough to not want to see your child end up in those circumstances. Good luck!

 

[Anne Ominous]

Thinking of you. Stay strong.

 

[johnAnchovie]

Jesus...

IKTM, i really feel for you. Anything I can do, ask. Defo get legal advice tho, definitely. Mean while ask her how is it that this religion can be allowed to create this situation is not contrary to some of the more 'pr' tenants that scamtology throws around?

Good luck man. Be strong.

(Bastards )

 

[Magoo]

Iknowtoomuch,

Great nick, exp for *this*...argh. How are you doing?
Ok, if you're still reading, here's my two cents on this:

1) Try to get into great "ARC" with your wife. That's what your marriage
has been bound with, and she understands that ....no matter what.
If you've never read it, read "Dianetics 55" about the family estranged
and how they used "ARC" to get back in touch. Granted, it's Hubbard,
who I don't usually promote----but she's still "in", so that would be real
to her.

2) Depending on your kids ages---try to keep them out of this COMPLETELY.
I now know 7 (SEVEN) young Scientologists who ALL took their lives. The common denomenator was: They each had one parent "in", one "out" (or one for it, one against) OR they wanted out, themselves. It's a VERY touchy area....so make sure you let her or he grow up before pounding your views on this, my opinion. (I do believe it's important that you do educate them, but not at the risk of their own lives).

3) Once you're back in "ARC"----(And Fuck you, to any OSA Person's reading this ...now nattering and laughing that I'm using "the tech". So what?)
Then show her "The Creed of a Scientologist". In that it speaks of
"Man has the inalienable right to free speech, free thought". Well? If you have to, clear up the word "Free"---so you're both literally on the same page.
Then ask again: Does she believe this, or not?

I think from there---you can discuss it. However, I do believe it's important to TRY to keep your family together, until your children are of age....unless your wife is pouring the $$$ Into C of S, or doing SERIOUS mind control actions like MAKING them be on course, or setting them up for staff. (If that's the case, ignore all that I've said--and get them out of there, fast).

If it's $$$$--- Get someone to help you do family planning, (not a Scio "in") and if need be, have her read the MANY accounts of people going broke, buying the "Bridge into a ditch" in C of S. Try to get her to either watch, or read the many excellent accounts of personal stories, of people who did just what she is doing, only to get to the end and find they ARE in a ditch, not "free".

4) Also, although C of S seriously 'Dead agents" the "Freezone".....I do believe IF She knew she could get it for WAY cheaper---without the abuses----WHY NOT? Show her some "Wins" from that, too.

Most of all, take care of your family. Know that the joy you help create for your children shall be lived for the rest of their lives, or not...so make it as good as possible.

My love to you and your family!

Tory/Magoo~~~

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Thank you for all the help.
I'm having a problem staying away anyways. This is one of the very very few places I have to look for support in this matter. Same goes for Ex Scientology kids.
I'm just going to take it very slowly but "keep it under the radar" till I can get her to see a few very basics then work up from there.

Thank you all so much for the help.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Not my/our business, but...

Thank you for all the help.
I'm having a problem staying away anyways. This is one of the very very few places I have to look for support in this matter. Same goes for Ex Scientology kids.
I'm just going to take it very slowly but "keep it under the radar" till I can get her to see a few very basics then work up from there.

Thank you all so much for the help.

Just to clarify my/our thoughts as we work to help get you off the "horns of this dilemma" - who is the "breadwinner" or money source in your scene and if it's split; approximately what are the percentages? Include "outside" sources as well as "earned" if you would.

An old "saw" from an uncle: "Son, ya don't need a license to be a damn fool!"

We'll be right here rootin' fer ya boy!

EP

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Just to clarify my/our thoughts as we work to help get you off the "horns of this dilemma" - who is the "breadwinner" or money source in your scene and if it's split; approximately what are the percentages? Include "outside" sources as well as "earned" if you would.

An old "saw" from an uncle: "Son, ya don't need a license to be a damn fool!"

We'll be right here rootin' fer ya boy!

EP

We've been trading off over the years. Right now she is the major bread winner. I'm working part time.
That's one of the reasons she's upset about it, were really starting to do well.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

My experience, FWIW...

We've been trading off over the years. Right now she is the major bread winner. I'm working part time.
That's one of the reasons she's upset about it, were really starting to do well.

At one point I had a windfall of a pretty big chunk of money. I wish, in retrospect, that I had sat down with the wife (non-scn, BTW) and worked the "affluence" formula together with her. I thought about it and decided, unilaterally, not to - flowed the whole thing and more to the "bridge". Gross error? Maybe. I considered that I had a very well developed "crap detector" at that time' and had, actually, good success in most things.

You might try this (affluence formula) since you are both in (more or less) but be sure you know your shit cold before you start. Do not confuse "production" with "bridge progress" which was my fatal (?) flaw.

I'm equivocal there, because I actually scared the crap outta MYSELF with my excesses and it was kinda a "wake-up call" if that makes sense.

Would have much preferred to "wake up" with a fat bank account and plenty of assets - but hey!...can't have everything, can you.

Money is a "renewable resource" for sure.

Roy, aka EP

 

[Magoo]

We've been trading off over the years. Right now she is the major bread winner. I'm working part time.
That's one of the reasons she's upset about it, were really starting to do well.

The better off you all do, the more interest they will have in her, and frankly, cutting her off from you, IF you remain "Counter Intention" (not interested in giving them all your $$$)

So: As someone who DID give them ALL of our $$$(over $200,000---my now X-husband's Mom gave our entire "Inheritance" to Flag--as "I want to see your wins while I'm alive", plus tons of our own money.......we ended up OT 8 and OT 7 and broke as could be.

I can't say it enough: Try to get her to watch some of the videos on
www.xenutv.com (Try "OTs Speaking Freely" for starters)----and make sure
ALL of your bases are covered, including your kid's college, retirement, your home, etc---BEFORE any large chunks go to C of $.

And if you can, get a FT job. That'll give you more "say" in the whole picture.

GOOD LUCK, and keep posting! People here understand ......

Tory/Magoo

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Wow, that is some sweet advice. Thank you guys very much.
I'm going to start putting money away. And only in my name.
One huge blessing is the FL debts we have. Thank you goes out to the church for those!

I'll have her watch that video which is awesome truth. But it will be some time before I'll be able to get her to sit and watch it.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Freeloader debt...

Wow, that is some sweet advice. Thank you guys very much.
I'm going to start putting money away. And only in my name.
One huge blessing is the FL debts we have. Thank you goes out to the church for those!

I'll have her watch that video which is awesome truth. But it will be some time before I'll be able to get her to sit and watch it.[/QUOTE

Dear IKTM,

As to "I'll have her watch..."

Can you get her agreement to NOT flow anything to the FL debt? Just for starters - at least not until the...? mortgage is retired? kid's college money in the bank?...all credit card debt eliminated? Just an idea. Also NOT to donate for any services in advance or make ANY donos until complete financial stability is attained?

Definitely put money in your name only. AND, you should have an attorney; despite what you think, feel or have agreed to otherwise.

I'm not talking OPINION here; this is from EXPERIENCE.

Roy/EP

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Wow, that is some sweet advice. Thank you guys very much.
I'm going to start putting money away. And only in my name.
One huge blessing is the FL debts we have. Thank you goes out to the church for those!

I'll have her watch that video which is awesome truth. But it will be some time before I'll be able to get her to sit and watch it.[/QUOTE

Dear IKTM,

As to "I'll have her watch..."

Can you get her agreement to NOT flow anything to the FL debt? Just for starters - at least not until the...? mortgage is retired? kid's college money in the bank?...all credit card debt eliminated? Just an idea. Also NOT to donate for any services in advance or make ANY donos until complete financial stability is attained?

Definitely put money in your name only. AND, you should have an attorney; despite what you think, feel or have agreed to otherwise.

I'm not talking OPINION here; this is from EXPERIENCE.

Roy/EP

I made the change, I don't see why she can't. I just have to use the fact that we really do love each other. Like I said, it will take time.
We have no debts right now. Other than the normal house and cars.

One other thing is she does want to be completely stable before we do anything. Even before she "flows" to her BS debt.
I've got time. I've gotten her to stop going to events. That's a pretty good start.