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Tag end, of the catalyst for me & parts of a story

Yep - get the whole insanity out into the daylight, mate.

i've been trying for several weeks now to put together the pieces of that whole insane time.

It's seatbelts and popcorn time! :drama:
 
Now I begin to "get it"! The "tag end"!

If I ever wrote/write my story, the following would be at the tag end of it. Recently, some stuff has “shifted” for me, and for my hubby (who now has less concern re me maintaining my anonymity on this message board). ANZO has been so “sheltered” in so many respects. While there are many indicators that so much needs “rectifying” - on the surface for so many around these parts, it CAN seem that the “the Org” is more on track than not, in the pursuit of “Freedom”.

Well, not so I would think, and some time ago realised. It is not always at is seems. Why are the vast majority of the OL’s of the past (opinion leaders), and those who “stood up” in the name of “freedom”, now so long gone and nowhere to be seen? For those of you who have asked, and for those of you who know me, the following is what went down just before I left. It’s not been so noble of me, to withhold it to date – as I know it may impinge on folks who know me/knew me, who are still sitting on the fence. The atrocities going on within the CofS, aren’t just “make believe”, and few and far between in some remote place like the USA. They happen here to, and soon you’ll be hearing more from others, who have copped it hard in our own back yard.

We’ve all had our different experiences, but from my experience, any and all in ANZO who have tried to carry that Flag for “freedom”, who have fought for sanity within the ranks and who have refused to “give in” to the “mental compliance” required by the powers that be – have been persecuted to the point of submission, or have left. The following is part of the story as to why I left.

The last straw (97/98):

I had already been through 6 months of arbitrary ethics handlings, and six intensives of sec checking (at my expense), because I wasn’t complying and/or wouldn’t comply and change my “think”, in regard to whacko org management intervention on a dissem cycle I did, and because of where I was at on the “church” and its general operating basis. They found no “heinous crimes” during my sec check and had nothing on me, and supposedly exhausted all avenues in regard to “handling” me - but that’s another story (as a note, I was a “public” at this point, although prior in my Scn history, I held senior tech and admin posts in the org, as well as power fsm status in the field). I thought I was through and could finally “walk” without a “label” (slide out the back door so to speak).

It was Jan 98 and I had just gotten back from a trip back to NZ for a family reunion/holiday, with my husband and boys. I had thought I was “done” at the org, prior to leaving on holiday, but I was called in “urgently”. If it were not for the fear of my kids having to choose between me and Scientology – down the track, I would have said “get fucked, I’m out!”, but at that time, this was of major concern to me. I gained so much from Scientology, and I didn’t want my kids to be denied the gains that I had made (easy to see in hindsight, that this was foolish – especially now, given that I know the actual scene). Mistakenly, I had decided to play this out, and wanted to slip away quietly without an SP declare.

I went in as “ordered” and was confronted with a KR (knowledge report), from a Scientologist who we had a bit to do with, some years earlier. We’ll call this scn’ist Bob (I won’t name him, I care for his family and he was just a pawn in the game – if anything, I feel sorry for him).

The KR from Bob, stated that I supposedly had an affair with Bob, some 6 years before. It gave some specifics like; we didn’t actually have sex, we just “heavy petted”; he licked me out several times, but I didn’t return the favour; we had a very sensual shower one time; this “affair” reportedly went on for 3 months, at a time when I was running the Class V org; that one of my selectees knew we were having this affair; and I can’t recall what else it said. Nor can I recall every detail or sequence of events – but some things stick in my mind – and that’s what I will tell you about.

I went into shock! – Big time! I knew this guy was a huge “dub-in” case, as did most who knew him (he would make stuff up, then believe it, we reckoned). I was saddened, as I had affinity for the guy, his wife and family. I didn’t get where this had come from. My hubby had given him work, when he needed it. And I had done a marriage handling, on him and his wife (she was a doll). Things between Bob and I hadn’t been great, but nor had they been bad.

I objected to the KR being given any credibility, let alone being acted on – for several reasons. At the time, I thought, these reasons would/should have been clear and unquestionable to anyone who had a brain, or to any scn’ist who new ethics tech:
- It was written by a “psych case”, who had never finished a major course in Scn, and one who had no “stats” or “products” (while that may mean little to me, it would normally be highly relevant to an ethics officer)
- It was referring to a time when I was ED of an org, and doing very well with that org. Highest Ever Paid Comps for years (the org’s main stat), just recently uncrossed cash/bills (“solvent”), and $250,000 of previously not confronted refund requests handled or paid out. Staff were winning and so were public. The “affair” was reportedly to have taken place at this time (another point that should have/would have been very relevant to an ethics officer)
- Per “Second Dynamic Rules” policy letter, ethics orders, punishment or discipline for 2D activities should not be the business of orgs and not administered.
- I could get evidence, that the report was bullshit, and I gave specific examples.

...but alas, not so. My objections and data were negated/denied. And my question re "WTF relevance does this have anyway?" :angry: was continually ignored.

I had to hang around for a while. I was sitting and stewing. Then Shane Brockdorff - an old flat mate of mine, co TTC member (we “trained” together), once Snr C/S ANZO, and Class 9 auditor, turned up to “audit” me. He used to be my friend, but this night, he was as cool as a cucumber toward me. This is a guy, who knew who I was, and what I was, and what I had done/”achieved” within the Scn ranks.

“1st interview”

I saw the CO OSA (Vicky Hannah), the RTC mission I/C, and the RTC mission MAA go into an auditing room. Then Shane took me into the auditing room next door, and began an “INAY” (I’m not auditing you)”session” of course. He had an ear piece in his ear, and I could see that the live “camera” in the room (intended for auditor training), was on. I got quite fearful at this point. I knew those dudes next door were about to witness what was gonna go down. I had had months of punishment and insanity from those two fascist type missionaries (fired directly from and run by DM), and my adrenalin started pumping. I took the cans, and Shane started questioning me for withholds – straight up! I couldn’t believe it. The comm cycle (conversation) went something like this:

Me: WTF are you doing? You’re asking for my overts with Bob, and trying to pull withholds on me, without any standard sessioning, no sleep check, no food check, no metab, and no ruds?
Shane: What did you do with Bob?
Me: Excuse me!!!!!!!! WTF? What are you doing? What is this? That’s a listing question, and you aren’t even giving a fuck about a read on the question!
Shane: I know you had an out 2D with Bob, What did you do?
Me: I can’t believe this, what are you doing? We trained together? That’s not a confessional or sec check question. That’s a fucking listing question. You know as well as I do the meter reads on “yes”, so WTF are you doing, what tech are you applying with this random “steering” ?
Shane: I want you to tell me about your out 2D with Bob. What did you do?
Me: So you are willing to persist with this fiasco, and piss on all your training and the tech, cause you’d rather follow the orders of miscavige and his henchmen, than get toasted?

At this point, Shane went “red”, and said we’d be taking a break. (he obviously was told to stop there, and went into the room, where the spectators were watching and controlling the “session”). I heard the yelling.
Shane came back, put ear piece back in his ear, and continued. He was very surley with me. He proceeded with “your needle is dirty”. I responded with “well of course it’s fucking dirty – you are invalidating the fucking shit out of me! We did e-meter drills together REMEMBER!!! Why would it be fucking clean when you are being such a fascist c’nt!

Shane just kept on, and I kept bucking and rejecting. So lucky I was trained, and didn’t put my “case” or myself in his “hands”. I knew what he was doing was SO DAMN off the wall, that I was gonna remain cause at all cost. I was scared though, and I was shaking uncontrollably at one point. I could fight, and I kept fighting, but inside I felt terrified and trapped. I was very confused and felt my world was caving in me. It took me all the strength I could muster to hang in there.

I kept insisting to Shane that he wake the fuck up, and look at what he was doing, and get some balls for god’s sake and stand up to the nazi mongrels who were forcing him to do this, but the same line of questioning just went on and on. It took me everything to hold back the tears, but I did. I didn’t want to give the pricks who were watching, the gratification of seeing me “crack”/”fold”. I kept insisting that he get Bob in, that he get the two of us together, and that I would/could prove that Bob’s KR was full of dub-in (bullshit), on Bob’s part.

Finally, the session and the battle, came to an end (I thought). Vicki Hannah (CO OSA) came in, and said that Bob was there, and that she was wanting to talk with Bob and I. I stayed in the room. In walked Bob, out walked Shane, then Vicki started to talk.

Bob gave his story. I was furious! I wanted to fucking deck the bastard at that point. I was bursting with anger and frustration, my blood was boiling, but I had to sit and listen to his account of events. I kept staring at him. If looks could kill, yes – he would’ve been dead. I bit my tongue and copped it – til it was my turn.

Finally it was my turn for a response. I wanted to yell and scream and cry, but knew that I had to contain myself, if I wanted to make a point. The following is pretty roughly the conversation that went down, between Bob and myself, with Vicki there arbitrating. It may sound crude and/or rude, but the dialogue between us, shows that Bob was bullshitting. Please see it, in that light. It went something like this:
(Note: I was confronting him, looking at him while he either had his head down or was looking out the window into the dark)

Me: So, you say, we had an affair for 3 months, but never actually fucked?
Bob: That’s right!
Me: Why didn’t we fuck Bob? If we were so passionately in love with each other, and had the opportunity, why would we not? We were adults for chrissake, not bloody teenyboppers?
Bob: I don’t know, we didn’t need to.
Me: Oh come on! Why would we not fuck if we were so passionately in love?
Bob: That’s the point, we were in love, and we didn’t need to. (I gave up on that one!)
Me: So per your KR, you licked me out on several occasions, but I never sucked YOU off?
Bob: That’s right
Me: Did I ever offer, or was I just happy for a one way flow?
Bob: You offered but I refused!
Me: Excuse me???
Bob: I just wanted to satisfy you, wasn’t in it for myself
Me: You mean to say, that here was a woman who you were passionately in love with, wanting to suck you off, and you were refusing the offer?
Bob: Yep!
Me: Well that’d be a fucking first, especially in this bloody country! You’d be a rare one BOYO!!!
Bob: I am a rare one, and I pride myself on it. (bloody lovely! Gave up on that one too)
I had all sorts of comments at that point, and Vicki pulled me up on my obscenities, and put me back on track.
Me: What about the shower? (a whole crew of us were having a weekend away. Bob and I went there two hours earlier (with my kids) than the rest of the four families, because we were the ones who were free to get there and get everything working and warmed up in the daylight, before the rest of the crew arrived there in the dark. At this big old empty mansion in the Blue Mountains, the water was nearly frozen in the pipes, and it was cold and damp when we got there. We spent about an hour and a half, making it warm and welcoming for those who were to arrive shortly after).
Me: So you say we had a romantic shower when we got to there, before the others arrived?
Bob: Yep
Me: What about the fact that the water was all but freezing at the time, and that it took til the next morning to get hot water through the pipes? A romantic cold shower in the blue mountains in August – are you fucking kidding me?
Bob: Didn’t matter, we were in love.
Me: Come on! In that freezing water, your cock would have shrivelled up and disappeared – How romantic would that be? What did we do in the fucking shower?
Bob: We just loved each other, we didn’t notice the cold.
I turned to Vicki – “Don’t you see how absurd this is? He’s in a fucking dream world! Can’t you SEEEEE that? Vicki said to me “Do you have any other questions for Bob?”. I said “yes”.
Me: So, if we were having a shower when we first got there, where were my kids?
Bob: They were in bed asleep.
Me: Well there ya go! The others got there for dinner a couple of hours after us, and my kids were still up and played with the others when they arrived. Didn’t go to bed for two hours later.

I turned to Vicki – “Obviously this “story”/”fantasy, doesn’t wash. I would hardly leave my 3,4 and 6 year olds to their own devices in a strange environment, running around high balconies, stairs, ponds, pools and the like with no supervision, would I? He says they were in bed. Come on!!! – like I could say to my extremely active young men “come on boys, mummy’s just going to go and have some slap and tickle in the shower with Bob (and before Daddy gets here), so I just need you to have a little sleep for a while, OK?. Yeah right!!! I was furious and I was getting more than slightly sarcastic with the lack of any sane response from Vicki on the matter. What more did I have to say?

Vicki: We’ll leave it there then.
Me: So do ya get it now? Will ya drop it now?
Vicki: Thanks Bob.... then she looked at me.....I’ll be back soon.

STUPID me, felt relieved...of course I had proved that this guy was living in a fantasy land.....but not so apparently........the interrogation continued.

Shane: So what did you do with Bob?
ME: WTF??? Isn’t that cleared? It’s more than apparent that Bob is bullshitting/in a fantasy land, and you are still persisting with this crap line?
Shane: Tell me about the sex between you and Bob?
Me: WTF? C’mon Shane, ya can’t tell me that some guy is gonna turn away getting sucked off by a woman he is “passionately in love with”, or have a cold shower in the blue mountains in August. Surely you see the outpoints/ the discrepancies – he’s dubbing in for god’s sake – nothing happened
with him and me. It’s more than apparent that he’s bullshitting. Wake up. Don’t do this. How will you sleep tonight? Tell those fuckers next door to get fucked. This is INSANNNE!!!

Argued for some time, and then...

Shane: Have you ever had physical contact with Bob?
I’d had enough, thought “OK, will tell ‘m what he wants” Christ, I just wanted out – and all my reasoning wasn’t getting me there.
Stupid me: Yeah, while dancing one night.

One night, I put on a Pirates and Wenches party for my staff and public who we had come to know and love. It was at my home, we had put nets up all over the place and mocked it up as a ship. And yes, all the girls came as wenches, and the boys came as pirates. We had about 200 people there. Just like all the girls, I was dressed up as a “wench” – had some cleavage showing – oh my god! We all had a great night. During the evening I had danced with Bob, and just about every other bloke there. And yes, we all had fun with each other. The usual female/male attentions (that come so naturally and feel so good) were running high. But as usual, we all knew where the line was and didn’t cross it. I certainly didn’t even get near that line with Bob, let alone cross it. I danced with him to some slow supertramp track, and yes our hips were touching at one point and yes my tits were obviously touching his chest (whoopdy bloody do!!!). Big deal – aren’t they always when a man and woman have a slow dance?

You’d think that I had seduced him and taken him to the bedroom and fucked his brains out – given the questioning from Shane, the accusations and the amount of time spent on one bloody absolutely NOTHING dance! “weren’t you being sluttish and provocative showing your cleavage?” “wouldn’t having your hips touching, been turning him on?” Weren’t you getting turned on with your breasts against his chest?” etc, etc, etc, for about an hour and a half. I argued “no overt there baby!” he argued “how could that not be an overt?” I argued “not per my moral code”. It went on and on.

Finally, Shane said – we’ll leave it there. He was escorting me out, and told me to go and wait in a certain area. I said “no examiner hey?” (I knew there wouldn’t be). I said he should maybe give himself an instruct on “Illegal Auditing” HCOB (tech bulletin).

Vicki saw me. It was now say 3.30am (I had been in the org on this cycle for seven and a half hours). She said that I should go home and get some rest – lovely! Had to be up at 6.30am next morning to get kids to school, and me to work. I went home. Quite numb, and very “lossy”, very drained and spaced.

That was the first “interview”. Pushing the submit button on this will help me get the confront up, to tell you about the second - the following night. And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.

Dear Ceedia,

I hope you don't mind me quoting your entire first post on this thread - it's just that it now becomes clear :duh: why you called it the "Tag End, of the catalyst..." and how the GAT evolution fits into the picture. (well, sometimes guys are not too bright, ya know...) :no: :blush: :melodramatic:

We've come a long way since early September, have we not? :thumbsup:

Now, back to business!

Mike, formerly known as Roy and EP
 
My account of the '83 CMO Mission in ANZO

So things had certainly changed in Sydney Org with the arrival of Matt Henderson and his CMO Mission. As I said previously, we didn’t know what had hit us. We had previously had a taste of that hard cold ruthless attitude and command, but it wasn’t the ‘norm’. Now it was overpowering. We all have our different perspectives on what went down, and about what occurred at this time. The following are some things that I won’t forget (and now remember more clearly, than I have in previous years).

- The mission I/C came into my office and started going through pc folders on my desk. I asked him what he was looking for. He told me that he was looking for a certain pc’s folder. I asked him why. He told me that I needed to C/S him for a PTS R/D.

Rather than ask him what he was trying to handle with this staff member (which I should have done), I told him that ya don’t just “C/S” someone for a PTS R/D. I tried to explain that it would only be programmed for a pc who needed it case wise, and that this pc was winning on the grades. I told him that I didn't see that I had the option of programming him for a PTS R/D.

He went ballistic at me (how dare I accuse him of “executive C/Sing!” etc). He was screaming at me and towering over me (I’m 5’5 but he was at least a foot taller). At that point I didn’t know what to do. I had to stick up for myself somehow I thought, as he was using his physical height (and gender) to dominate and intimidate me. Stupidly, I stood on my office swivel chair and started yelling back down at him (it was either that or cry, and I didn’t want him to see me do that). Then he grabbed the back of my chair, which made me physically unstable, so I instinctively put my hand on his shoulder to stabilize myself. Then he went off his brain – I supposedly “pushed” him (maybe I did, but maybe I didn’t). He called “HCO Bring Order”, and two SO members came straight into my office. They physically got me off the chair (I must have looked like a bloody goose standing up there), and man-handled me down to HCO.

At that point I was put on a “decks program” at CLO. Unlike Tim, I wasn’t asked to pay for mine. I was at CLO during the day, writing up o/ws for 1/3rd of the day, and doing mest work for the other two thirds of the day. That mest work included cleaning the toilets with a toothbrush at times. There were a few of us on mest work from the org, and we would make a joke about it all. We were laughing a lot. “How easy is this compared to being on post and shitting ourselves, all day and night long?”. We also joked about where we’d like to stick the toothbrushes and how we would do it. It was actually a relief being there, as opposed to being on post. The fact that we were ‘having fun’ really got up the goat of the mission I/C, and made things worse for ourselves, but somehow we kept laughing about it – it was all just so bizarre.

I went to my moonlight job at night as usual, then a couple of times I snuck into the org to check out the folders of a few particular pc's. I saw that the mission I/C had written a C/S for the staff member we’d argued over, stating “do PTS R/D”, when he was smack in the middle of grade one I think. That wasn’t something an auditor could or would follow – it was joke! It was never done though. The FDN C/S was in overload, cause she was C/Sing the Syd Day folders as well as those from FDN, so the staff just simply ceased to have auditing (including this staff member who absolutely had to have the PTS R/D that day!). I was off post for about a week at that time. When I went back on post, I wasn’t allowed to C/S for staff after that without permission. They were simply left in the middle of whatever they were on, after the mission I/C went off his rocker over the staff being audited in production time. The only "auditing" the staff received was on sec checks.

- It was a Thursday, and there were interns on the line up to comp that week. That would count toward Paid Comps (the Org stat) and other important GDS’s (gross divisional statistics). The day before, I had said that two of the interns on the line up probably wouldn’t make it. The mission I/C didn’t like that. He said that they’d have to make it, and that it was my responsibility to see that they did. I just looked and said nothing. I couldn't agree, 'cause I knew that it wasn't going to happen, but I didn't dare say that it wouldn't.

It was about 1.45pm or so on the Thursday. He came into my office and asked what was happening with a particular Class IV intern. I said that she was in session, but that she hadn’t made it, and couldn't without doing a few more sessions. I tried to explain that even if this particular session went well, there were still a couple of requirements for the internship that she hadn’t met. He went off his brain, and told me that I was CI (counter intention) and that he was by-passing me.

I followed him. He went down the hallway of the auditing rooms, and started knocking on the door of the auditing room that the auditor was in, while she was giving a session. I tried to grab his arm and stop him, but he just shoved me on the floor. I was a bit shocked by this (to say the least), and then the intern came out with her pc.

He told the auditor to send the pc to exams (mid process, and after a disturbed session). He asked the intern for her check-sheet and signed off all the steps that I was supposed to attest to her having completed, as her C/S. She “went through lines” and attested to her Class IV internship. (for the record, I got that auditor back a few months later to complete her internship properly, much to her relief at the time)

He left me alone for the rest of the day, and I didn’t see him on the Friday. But then Monday came. He asked me what I was doing on post. I told him that I was C/sing as usual. He blew up, because I was supposed to be back on the decks. Needless to say, I went back on the decks.

- This time on the decks, I was helping with food prep, at a grotty little SO premises just on the outskirts of the CBD. I was peeling soft potatoes (tons of the bloody things) when a messenger came, and told me that I was to report to the mission I/C pronto. So I got my stuff and walked down the road to the FOLO.

He was being nice to me (which was somehow more scary than when he yelled at me). He told me that he thought I was a good person, but that he was unsure, and that he was going to give me this last chance to prove it. He wanted to send me “on mission” to Adelaide.

I got a huge brief about what SP’s they were down there and what they had done. I didn’t buy it, but sadly I took the opportunity as an “out” for myself. He told me to go and see a person about getting an SO uniform for the “mission”. I explained to him that I wasn’t SO, that I hated the uniform, wouldn't feel comfortable in it, and that I’d do just as good of a job without it. He insisted that wearing the uniform would give me more ethics presence. He got mad at me again, and I succumbed again (I ended up wearing one of those bloody uniforms on the plane to Adelaide, and while I was in that Org).

I had my “mission orders”, and he had told me that he had an “on source” staff member there, who’d let him know, whether or not I had performed. On the flight down there, I was reading my mission orders. I was contemplating following them, despite the fact I knew that they were wrong, and I was talking myself into the "fact" that they were justifiable because it might save my arse (following his orders wouldn't really do any harm - not!). "I'd look like a dickhead, but it wouldn't matter because I didn't know those people". I was stewing about all this and I vomited (I grabbed one of those bags behind the seats). I have never before or ever since had sea sickness or air sickness (despite the fact that in the past I have been a passenger in the air during aerobatics and despite being on very rough seas). Looking at what those mission orders were, and contemplating following them, made me physically sick.

I got to Adelaide Org, and then did my bit (I followed the first steps of the "mission orders”) – shykes. I got all the staff together, and we had a muster. I “R-factored” them, that Andrew Simmes (their recently busted ED) and Tom Reid were SP’s. Then I told them that anyone who didn’t like that, could walk and would be declared as well. Well, fu’k me! What could I expect – about 6 walked out of the muster! Then I felt like a dick, and so bad. Why did I do that? Disaster! - I’m so sorry for doing that! That was wrong – I was trying to save my arse at the time and felt more concerned about my own arse than anybody else’s. :sad:

Next thing I was talking to the guys who were left, about how I had gotten there, and what was going on in Sydney. The next day, those guys who had walked out of the muster were back. Together we tried to work out a strategy to keep “the wolf” at bay. I ended up false reporting to him (which I didn’t feel shit hot about). I told him that it all went over fine, no adverse reaction, and that we were all working together as a team (which was true except that we weren't part of his team). I carried on for a few days. I did some reg’ing, FESing, cramming and C/Sing. We just did what we could to "deliver" and I worked my butt off, so I had something that I could report. When speaking to the mission I/C I just poo pood the concept that the staff were "dissafected" and made out that all was well. I remember having a couple of staff help me make up some bullshit telexes to send to the I/C. When he rang me, I had two others there, who would listen in and write down what I should say if I was stuck, or if they thought I needed to add something. It was only phone calls, but quite scary at the time.

I was there for about a week, till he said to me that it was a failed mission, despite the fact that production and stats were up. He said that I was a “wholly shiftless” and that I was being ordered back to be routed off staff. I asked why. He told he knew about my false reporting, and my meetings in regard to how to answer certain telexes. Someone dobbed me in - I never did find out who, and am still curious about that one.

I got back to Sydney, and wasn’t sure about what I was supposed to do, or where I was supposed to go. My DofP was insistent I get back on post. She said pc’s were being held up on going into session, 'cause their folders weren’t C/Sed in time. So, I just went back on post, and the Mission I/C seemed to forget what he had said to me (he saw me on post, but didn’t say anything).

- After being back on post a couple of days (from the Adelaide “mission”), I heard mention by the SSO of “Bruce’s service”. I asked “wtf?” “What do ya mean by “Bruce’s service"?”. She said, “Oh, haven’t you heard, Bruce Taylor dropped the body while you were away”.

Bruce was a flatmate of mine. We were friends. We were also in the TTC together. He was on a “decks program”, had an asthma attack, went to hospital and was in a cubicle, his oxygen tank ran out, no-one noticed in time, and he died (short version of the story). I started screaming. A certain wench who I never liked said “don’t worry, he’ll get another body” (as if that was the fu’king issue!). I grabbed her around the neck and shook her. How dare she say that and how dare no-one tell me! How dare no-one seem to care! I just walked out of the org after that, went to Hyde Park across the road, and later went home (I didn’t have to go to my moonlight job, because I had already lost that job through going to Adelaide). The next day, after I had bawled my eyes out for hours, I stepped up and got some balls.

God bless you Bruce – I’m still so sorry that the passing of your life and valued presence was seemingly ‘missed’ by so many who loved you so dearly.

Rightly or wrongly I blamed the mission for killing Bruce. At that point I wanted to kill the mission, and I didn’t particularly care what they might do to me as a result.

- A good friend of mine (Shane), had just arrived back on staff from a leave of absence (he went off for a few months to deal with some debts). He saw the crap that was going on too. Staff were coming to both Shane and I, and appealing to us for help in regard to what was going on. We didn’t know wtf to do! We just said, write it up, but most were scared to write anything up, especially as it just about all involved the Mission I/C.

We encouraged them to. We had a bunch of staff members come to Tim’s and my flat for a couple of nights, to help them write up their KR’s on the mission, and on what had been going down. In those days, reports were hand written (no word processors). We didn’t write the KR’s for these guys, but we did help them to avoid HE&R, generalities and the likes, which would stuff up the credibility of their KRs. The KR’s contained many and varied instances of out tech, BS stat push crap, and evidence of a suppressive regime...now the “norm” in the org. The KR’s contained specifics on what the mission I/C was doing and ordering, and how these new “stats” were being obtained (Scooter gives specifics in his story).

We ended up with about 40 or so KR’s. We knew that they’d be stopped if we put them on org lines for routing to the various Int Mgt terminals (who we trusted at that time). A courier though, would cost a lot! Shane had just made a stack of dough (on his leave of absence), and he said that he’d cover the courier costs. But he also wanted a courier service that required a signature at the other end to make sure that they got there. He paid for that. We made copies and sent them to every man and his dog, who we knew of up lines. It cost Shane about $200 back then, which is equivalent to about $2000 now. A hell of an ask for anyone, let alone a bloke on staff!

We had all these separate envelopes packaged up (containing all the KR"s), to be sent by courier to the various terminals up lines. We also had one especially for the Mission I/C. Shane seemed to be cool about it all at the time, but I was shitting myself for sure! I delivered the envelope for the mission I/C to CLO. On the one hand I felt great about it, but on the other, I didn’t – I knew that there’d be reprecussions that I probably wouldn’t like, at least initially.

The next day, Shane and I were off post again, doing mest work at CLO/FOLO. Tim my hubby, and others who had written KR’s contained in the package, were on the roof at CLO, writing o/w's again. A day or so later, Shane and I were called in to see the Mission I/C (separately), and shown “interrogatories" done by Syd Day and Fdn staff.

The questions were all about Shane and I. What had we said, done, inferred, instigated, etc, etc, etc. These interrogatories were named, and before the staff filled them out, they were R factored that they had better tell all. Clearly, some were scared not to tell all, and there were others who wanted brownie points with the mission I/C, so they simply dobbed us in with the odd exaggeration to make themselves look good in his eyes (for giving him data that he wanted)! The betrayal there, from some who I thought were friends, cut pretty deeply.

I had warned Tim not to get sucked in by this guy’s affinity, that he’d undoubtedly use to suck him in to “coming clean”. Tim didn’t heed that warning, and our marriage was on the rocks. This time, it wasn’t me trying to get Tim to toe the line, it was Tim trying to get me to toe the line. This time it was Tim pleading with me, cause he didn’t want me to be declared. At this point Tim tried to tell me that this guy wasn't the bad guy that I made him out to be. What a balls-up!

The mission I/C showed us our SP declares, but then said to carry on with what we were doing – scrubbing toilets! A day later, he showed Shane and I our Comm. Ev issue, for “mutiny and conspiracy” among other things. How odd? One day we get shown our SP declares, then the next thing our handling has been whittled down to just another Comm. Ev.

About three days later (after we had the comm ev), we were sent back on post (like nothing had happened), and the HAS gave us a telex from the SNR C/S Int, saying that our comm. ev’s were “suspended”. A few days later, the AO opened up on the third floor of our Org. A couple of weeks later, Shane and I received “commendations’ from Snr C/S Int, for “Keeping Scientology Working”.

We never heard another thing about the comm ev on usual lines, except for on every OT Elig sec check since that time, this bloody thing would come up, and we’d get sec checked on it, again and again (they were still putting it in my face in early ’98, just before I left).

-------------------------------------

There is lots that happened during that mission (obviously). I’ve just given you some stuff that left some scars. Scooter has given specifics in his story, and there’s no doubt others (now on the board), will give you their account of events. In the scheme of things, later missions like the '97 RTC mission, were much worse. However, given where we were at, when the '83 mission arrived, it seemed to hit us all a lot harder. The overall adverse affect of that mission was huge on Syd Day and FDN - and it was our first real encounter with the "new" regime.
 
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good god Carmen, your story is mind blowing..... this is exactly what people still in Scn need to read. You are one tough cookie!
 
Thanks for your info, mate - fills in some of the gaps I had about that whole totally insane time.

I'd love to get a few others' stories from that time posted here - not just Sydney but also Miami, Munich and anywhere else the "Finance Police" went trampling

Ain't it great to be away from that bunch of nutters? :D
 
So sad

So sorry to hear about Bruce's death. He and I were fellow asthmatics on staff, but I remember his was so much worse than mine. He was so strong about not using his inhaler, and was a dedicated scientologist through and through. He had a brother, Robert who wasn't on staff but was a paying public. I audited him.

I would have felt the same way as you - that the mission killed him. So sorry.

:bigcry:

:rose:
 
Great writeup Carmel. When I joined staff in Syd F in '87 they were still talking about that mission and how it had more than halved the size of the org. People would speak of the glory days prior to that mission and how the staff got paid and the org was busy and expanding.

I must have heard one hundred different stories about it. It sure was a "group engram" they were still traumatized! I wonder if they still talk about it.

It seems to me to be at the same time as the SF mission holder conference.

It was the beginning of the end for the cult, enemies were made at that time who have started the anti CofS movement that is so strong today.

Was it all brought on by DM? What part did Hubbards paranoia play? I still wonder.

You were very strong to last through all that. :thumbsup:
 
I wonder...a slip...typo...

good god Carmen, your story is mind blowing..... this is exactly what people still in Scn need to read. You are one tough cookie!

Well, Carmen was a pretty strong-willed, self-determined gal too Carmel darlin'. :coolwink: I'd take it as a compliment for sure! :yes: :thumbsup:

See if ya recognise this "Carmen", Carmel and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljv0zDATu3c

Tell more when you have time and the mood strikes ya. :)

Love,

Mike
 
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I know exactly what you wanted to do with those toothbrushes.

I would have made sure that they were covered in plenty of hot peppermint toothpaste as well, just for that extra freshness!!!

That would certainly give them that "ring of confidence".
 
My decision to go back on staff as ED

I’m skipping some of my “staff history” here, but I haven’t felt inclined to look at my time a C/S in the mid ‘80’s, so I’m gonna continue with the time when I went back on staff as ED in the early '90's.

DISCLAIMER:

Deciding to go back on staff and trying to build up the org, etc etc, was all just a crock of shit, from my perspective now, but it wasn’t at the time for me and that’s the perspective I’m writing it from – not the perspective I have now!

If only the likes of dear Myssy “perceived” me back then, contacted me and let me know the real scoop – ah Geez! What a bloody wild goose chase all for nothing, and an endeavour that in hindsight I see as such a bad one, and one that today I am ashamed of. Bloody hell! (Can’t have all been my fault - I think I’ll blame Myssy, it’s easier :coolwink: ).

Despite the fact that I feel the cycle of me going back on staff was a crock of shit, I’m still shitty about what went down and the insanity at the time. It’s hard to get my head around this one. I know now it that it was doomed from the onset, and I’m now not proud at all of ANY assistance I gave to the CofS, yet somehow it still irks me so much that everything ended up going so sour at the time.


I had been “successful” as an FSM of “new public” after WISE consulting in the field, after I left staff and the C/S post in late '87. Around ‘91/’92 a recruit Mission arrived in ANZO, wanting to ‘man up’ the Class V Orgs with those who were doing well in the field. At that point the last thing I would have ever done, would have been to go back on staff! But then a picture was painted, and I fell for it.

A bunch of us “ex staff” were all at a briefing by a couple of these missionaries from the US. They did a great sell job. They ‘indicated’ all the things that we thought were fucked about orgs (without any prompting from us), and were pretty intent on getting us lot back on staff to “fix the orgs up”. I thought it sounded great, but I wasn’t going to be in on it, because the thought of being on staff again gave me the heebie jeebies, and I wasn’t “staff member material” anyway.

These missionaires said that they had me named on their mission orders to get back on staff and take over the hat as ED of Syd Day. I didn’t believe this, but they were bloody gunning for me despite my outright opposition to the idea, and despite the fact that I was repeating the same “legitimate objection” over and over. They arrived at my house on several occasions determined to get me back on staff. I made it clear why I wouldn’t and couldn’t! I offered to help recruit people who could and would. They named four people in the field who had agreed to sign a contract and go back on staff if I was going to be the ED. Aagghh, that stung! I spoke with these people to see if it was true, and supposedly it was. Here were my friends saying, “come on, just imagine it, look at what we could do with that org if we all went back in together and were running the place.” :hmm:

I was in turmoil. I so wanted the org to be a certain way, but I wanted others to go and make it that way, not me! I thought I was being selfish expecting others to do it, but by the same token I was ‘justifying’ my staying out of it, by pointing out that whoever went back in would need ‘active’ members in the field as well. I also made it clear that I wasn’t the one for the job, because of my disaffection with management. I put any and ALL of my “disaffection” on the table (which was a bloody shitload including all sorts of “enemy line” stuff), yet they didn’t appear to bat an eyelid. They agreed with me (verbally anyway), and insisted that the gripes I had, were the very things that upper management wanted 'handled' within orgs. The scales started to tip for me at this point. I had the idea, and/or was latching onto the hope that things were finally going to change. :duh: :bigcry:

I discussed much with these missionaries. I didn’t withhold a thing, yet they didn’t get me RB’d, or false data stripped, or crammed, or sent to ethics or anything. “Things MUST have changed”, I thought. They ‘agreed’ with my gripes, and re-iterated that because of where I was at on all that, and my production record to date, that I was the one for the job.

They gave me a new hope that management were finally on the right page (not! :angry: ). If I wanted the orgs to reform, then how could I sit back and not be a part of that, while being so critical of the way they were, without contributing to making the ‘change’. :duh:

I wanted and I hoped, but I still didn’t trust. I said I would look at it, but that I’d only entertain the idea if I had it in writing that I could run the org on my own terms, as they had promised. The missionaires weren’t adverse to this idea. I said that if I was to go back on staff, that I’d require an addendum to my contract signed by them and the CO ANZO, confirming all that they had promised/agreed to – they agreed.

I typed up a three page addendum to the contract. I can’t now recall all that it included, but it included stuff like the following:

- That as a mother, I wouldn’t be required to neglect my responsibilities as a mother because of my post in the org.

- That I could and would take time off from post, if and when I was required somewhere else, because of my kids.

- That because I had a family, I wouldn’t be required to work over and above usual “Day” hours (8.30am – 5.30pm with an hour for lunch).

- That I would be granted “leave” to go on vacation, once a year.

- That my after hours activities (like mixing with non-scios, and my consulting) wouldn’t be restricted or prevented because of my position with the CofS.

- That the org would be under my control, and that I wouldn’t be by-passed by management terminals, unless the GDSes were down-trending for 6 weeks or more .

- That any and all telexes to my staff would have to go via me.

- That my staff wouldn’t be subjected to any ethics or justice actions without my approval

- That I would have control of FP, given that I followed policy.

- That “Proportionate Marketing” HCOPL was something I’d be allowed to implement, in regard to FP and excessive financial expenses promoting to a very large and dead CF.

- That I could off-load whatever staff I wanted, and would not be product officered on “Recruitment in Excess”.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on weekly stats, but be given breathing space to operate on six week and three monthly trends.

- That I wouldn’t be product officered on WDAH’s at all, but was happy to be answerable to the number of course completions.

Etc, etc, etc – all pie in the sky crap, in hindsight.


Two missionaires, and the CO ANZO, signed the addendum (that I submitted) to my contract, with no deletions. I talked my hubby into the “fact” that this was our chance to help make things ‘right’. Tim agreed (begrudgingly) to me going back on staff. I called my mate Shane (long term partner in crime within the CofS), who was at Flag at the time, for his permission or “blessing”. He was very much like me - same scepticisms etc. He didn’t like the idea, and didn’t trust what I was being told, but I gave him all the scoop, during a few phone calls, and he finally came around. Once he said “ok”, I was excited, and went ahead. I felt like it was Christmas. :duh: :duh: :duh:

Three of my mates came back on staff with me. There were four of us (at the top of the org board,) running the org as we thought it should be, and we were given the breathing space to do it. We had all been on staff before, and we all knew how to run a business (having had successful businesses of our own).

It was good for a while, but then (in fairly short order) the screws started to get tightened, and it eventually all went belly up, but I’ll put those details in another post.
 
Another layer of the onion!

I’m skipping some of my “staff history” here, but I haven’t felt inclined to look at my time a C/S in the mid ‘80’s, so I’m gonna continue with the time when I went back on staff as ED in the early '90's.

DISCLAIMER:

Deciding to go back on staff and trying to build up the org, etc etc, was all just a crock of shit, from my perspective now, but it wasn’t at the time for me and that’s the perspective I’m writing it from – not the perspective I have now!

If only the likes of dear Myssy “perceived” me back then, contacted me and let me know the real scoop – ah Geez! What a bloody wild goose chase all for nothing, and an endeavour that in hindsight I see as such a bad one, and one that today I am ashamed of. Bloody hell! (Can’t have all been my fault - I think I’ll blame Myssy, it’s easier :coolwink: ).

Despite the fact that I feel the cycle of me going back on staff was a crock of shit, I’m still shitty about what went down and the insanity at the time. It’s hard to get my head around this one. I know now it that it was doomed from the onset, and I’m now not proud at all of ANY assistance I gave to the CofS, yet somehow it still irks me so much that everything ended up going so sour at the time.


...snip...

It was good for a while, but then (in fairly short order) the screws started to get tightened, and it eventually all went belly up, but I’ll put those details in another post.

I am so looking forward to hearing about this, Carmel! :yes:

"Missionaires" told me such blatant lies when I was routed to ITO - ostensibly for the OEC/FEBC, which was represented as a 6 month cycle...etc, etc, etc.

I also had written agreements as to time off, visits to and from home, etc.

Those things were not only not heeded - it was as if they had never existed!

Love,

EP
 
The first half of my time, as 'ED'

When I first started on post as ED, I wasn’t yet joined by my mates, and I felt like I was hit by a ton of bricks. It was numbing. It was nothing like the org I had worked in. It was sad.

- The Treas Sec was in tears, ‘cause the electricity was being turned off that day, because she couldn’t get a further extension on paying the electricity bill.

- 2/3 rds of phones had been cut off, because the phone bill wasn’t paid. (There were a couple of phones on another account still operating).

- 1/3 rd of the staff were miserable and didn’t want to be there. A few of them had resentment toward me, because I had mostly fsmed to Syd F and the AO (not Syd Day).

- The GI was around 1 or 2K a week, and had been for months.

- The C/S wasn’t well, and was pretty well chair bound, in her tiny office.

- There were only one or two HGC auditors

- The purif area was a shocker, and wasn’t stocked with supplies that it needed.

- The academy was relatively empty.

- There was over $250K of unpaid refund/repayment requests ‘pending’.

- The cash/bills was crossed by about $200K (including PTF -payments to flag - and monies owed to the AO).

- Prospect lists for GI, and Paid Completions were ‘thin’ to say the least.

- There were no FSM’s or field groups feeding the org.

- I literally had 5 metres of telexes expecting responses, on my first day.

- I discovered that my very good friend who was already on staff, was leaving! Aahh! They hadn’t told me. If they had, I probably wouldn’t have gone back there.

- And yeah, the org had run out of toilet paper.

I had Marion Whitta as my boss, she was CO Folo, and she was good for about a year and a half. If anything she was supportive and she was willing to back me up on what I wanted to do. She taught me how to answer telexes in a ‘PR fashion’ that would get the desired result from management in the US. She got her ANZO mgt guys off my back. When I was pissed off over any mgt or AO type crap, she could and would calm me down and help with a favourable solution. She allowed that org to be my baby, and let ME run it, despite the odd eye roll.

We obviously needed ‘public’. I kept FSMing, and somehow got most of my selectees to do their services on a Syd Day schedule – business hours. I rang everyone and anyone in the field who had ever FSMed and briefed them on the “new” Sydney Day.

I spoke to all the staff, to determine whether or not they should stay or go. For those that wanted to go, we just gave them a swift route out (with no sec checks, cause we didn’t have auditors to do them), which was pleasing to both them and me. We had enough staff, and I didn’t want “camouflaged holes”, so we only recruited people we knew and wanted, who we knew could actually help.

I refused to financially contribute to the monthly “bulk mail out”. It would cost the org $10K a pop, and it was all this glossy promo that I knew was ending up in the rubbish. I knew this ‘cause in the previous years I’d get on average about five particles in my mail box every day, and 95% of it was chucked without inspection. $10K a month to further irritate those people who had the mis-fortune to be on CF, and while the org needed new public because it couldn’t even afford to pay the power bill, was just a joke.

I also refused to pay for a third of “event costs”. The shit hit the fan. We had a meeting with all the key ANZO and AO Execs about it. Imagine a piddly org like Syd Day, having to pay one third of event costs – the same amount as the AO, which made sometimes 200 times the income than what Syd Day made! :angry: It was awful, but they couldn’t show me policy that required me to pay $10K towards their event, and I had policy to show them why I shouldn’t. In the end, I agreed to paying 10% of event costs (I wanted it to be 5% which would still have been generous). Syd Fdn's input also went down to 10% and the AO ended up paying 80% (instead of the 33% that they were previously getting away with). From this point on, relations between the AO and I became a little tense, and the CO Tours and I just didn’t talk at all after that.

ANZO was being run by women at this point, and the majority of them were just manipulative nasty bitches who had lost the plot I thought, on the real game. There was only one bloke amongst them with any weight, and he was an absolute girl when it came to standing up to the girls. They were all in so tightly together and scratching each other’s backs on everything. I was on the outer, and that was hard, but at least I had Marion.

JD, the reg, and I were good partners. We agreed that we should sell training, and the line up for that was relatively cheap and got good results pretty well straight up. We were selling “life repair” if needed, the purify, the trs and objectives co-audit, and then training packages (with a few intensives thrown in there, in case they were needed for repair. We just didn’t sell HGC auditing as a way of getting up the bridge, ‘cause we both thought it was crap.

In a fairly short time, from having no-one on the purif and no-one on major courses in the academy, we now had 10 or 15 or so consistently on the purif, and lots of students on course in the academy training on levels or NED. I spent most of my time drilling student auditors in the academy or reg’ing, and many of our students were co-auditing up the bridge. I was still FSMing for the org (and after my first three months on post, my FSM/C went to staff pay), and my friends in the field were also bringing selectees to our org for services. The org income was good, bills were being paid, the staff were relatively happy, not working on post after hours and they were taking their annual leave. On good GI weeks, we’d shout the staff breakfast at the Hilton on a Friday morning – and they’d all turn up despite the hour, because it was too good to miss.

We had the odd bludge/party time, like on Melbourne Cup day – prawns, lobster, cheeses, beer and champagne etc, with a tv set up in the div 2 area to watch the race. Staff and public alike all participated and had their punt with the sweeps we organised. Some of the SO Execs from upstairs at CLO even joined in, after I convinced them it was a good PR exercise.

I got the staff to stop calling the non-scios “wogs” (I just about sent them all to cramming on the 4th dynamic), and I got rid of the dreaded “hand to LRH” at muster every morning (that was a bit of a mind fuck though – I got taken off doing muster for a while ‘cause I refused to do it, and objected to it when it was originated). At muster every morning, I’d brief the staff on the world news, ‘cause most of them had no clue as to what was going on (not that I ever had a good grasp on it, but at least my grasp on it was better than nothing).

I wasn’t a good “Product Officer” and I never really wore that hat. I wasn't an ED's asshole, but because of who I knew, and my determinism to get what I wanted, I 'winged it'. I didn’t get my juniors to write up a condition formula every week, ‘cause I thought that was crap, but I did get them to write up a BP and we’d go over that with due regard to the condition formula that they should be applying. I considered that a “formula” every week based on stats, was such an arbitrary, and to some degree would keep one “pegged” ‘cause there was no room for futures – it was all just PT stuff, which wouldn’t get anyone anywhere in the long term. I could and did “product officer” staff on specific things that needed doing, but I didn’t product officer on stats – I hated it myself, it was non-productive, so I didn’t pass it on down to the staff. Besides, while things were going well, I didn’t need to, ‘cause my ass wasn’t really on the line. I did push for “sub-products” ‘cause I knew if they were gotten, then the GDS’s (gross divisional statistics) of the org, would look after themselves.

Daily, I used to get “metres” of telexes from mgt terminals in the US. I tried to get their arrival stopped, but that didn’t happen. I would glance through them, to make sure I wasn’t missing out on any info I wanted, but 90% of those telexes went in the waste paper basket without ever being answered. My senior knew that I’d trash the telexes, but she also knew that I had the addendum to my contract which she knew those telexes ‘violated’.

In the first year and a half, we did ‘well’. All the refund/repayment requests were ‘handled’ (we either paid back the dough, or got the person back on side, withdrawing their request). We uncrossed the cash bills and were in the ‘black’. We pretty well had competent and happy staff. Our “public” were doing well, and despite the odd shitfight with management, the staff were free to wear their own hats and were at least getting something that made a difference in their pay packets most weeks. AND, most importantly, we NEVER ran out of dunny paper!

It wasn’t all peachy. Despite my addendum to my contract, being ED of that org at that time, I was continually blocking and fending. The amount of time I spent on getting various management terminals to fuck the hell off, was just INSANE. We had good stats, yet the effort from them to by-pass and get us to change out tack, was never ending. AND, there always seemed to be 10 bloody bosses (whose sole job it was to send orders) to every one of us suckers who had a hard enough time trying to get through reading the bloody 'orders', let alone the time to reply to them or even contemplate implementing them. It was a continual thorn in the side, and it never made sense.

Despite that, the org was still ours, and we were still 'in control' (or thought we were). This soon changed, and things started to turn pretty damn sour, before going totally south.
 
<snip>

It wasn’t all peachy. Despite my addendum to my contract, being ED of that org at that time, I was continually blocking and fending. The amount of time I spent on getting various management terminals to fuck the hell off, was just INSANE. We had good stats, yet the effort from them to by-pass and get us to change out tack, was never ending. AND, there always seemed to be 10 bloody bosses (whose sole job it was to send orders) to every one of us suckers who had a hard enough time trying to get through reading the bloody 'orders', let alone the time to reply to them or even contemplate implementing them. It was a continual thorn in the side, and it never made sense.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people and the time spent on pushing a few delivery terminals to do all the work. 10 or 20 chiefs to every Injun just doesn't make for an efficient org!
 
Carmel this is great!! Good for you on trying to work from inside first -- you know that you gave it your best. And good for you for standing up for your time with your family. . . those requests were totally reasonable. I'm shocked that they gave even the apparency of an agreement with them.

You are a strong woman -- I LOVE that you tried to stop the "hand to LRH" at Muster and the use of the word "wogs". :roflmao: YOU GO GIRL!!!

Thank you for this!

:)TL
 
Carmel, You're a Wonder to Be Admired!

Carmel,

It's wonderful to be reading these posts of your integrity to purpose and the truth of good common sense being applied.

You're a wonder to be admired, and I do so:yes:

The other side of the coin is that you posts remind me of the perrenial idiocy of the second-raters who, somehow or other, manage to get into "senior" management positions without ever having truly been in the trenches and themselves produced on the posts or areas they crazily issue orders down on.

The funny true story in that vein is that when I moved into the Div 6 area in London Orgs in 1967 the stats were so bad as to be a disaster area. And as I now look back and recall, there were no orders coming down the lines from WW. But interestingly, when I had gotten the stats up to the highest in the world . . . my London Day org Div 6 alone producing more Stats than any continental area of orgs as a whole (my Fnd, of which I was also Div Sec, was another star performer) . . suddenly I was getting daily, weekly telex instructions and orders from GOWW Pub Exec Sec of what to do!!:angry: I won't name the dunce, last I saw him he was on FSO staff, but man, he'd never been near or worked in a Div 6 . . . and here's the silly bastard rendering unreal, stupid orders to the guy his seniors are Commending for highest stats on the planet! Now is that dull, or is that dull?

Now, why this is stupid and bad, is that it by-passed my FP and local judgment on where to invest promo money.

My ED, bless her heart, Ellen Jones, was too political and would not allow me to job endanger chit or orders query . . . and could only plead with me, "Can't you do them both?":duh:

My reply would be, "You bloody show me how, and I will!"

Etc., etc.

RogerB
 
Love your management style Carmen. :)

I think this story gives some indication why the missions were so successfull. They didn't have all that crap on their lines.
 
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