"Blacks need Scientology and Nation of Islam to help resolve their conflicts."

[Free Being Me]

Meanwhile, in the 1970's, we had Vietnamese boat people arriving here, not knowing English, owning just what they had escaped with. Within a generation, their kids were valedictorians, they owned small businesses, and were well on the way into the middle class.

Because their attitude was "No excuses, do what is necessary to do well".

[HIGHLIGHT]Perhaps the best thing that could be done for the residents of the "inner city" is cancel all the academic social science grants, fire the social workers, terminate welfare, and tell people "Work or die, your choice". After a period of upset, we might just see some improvement in the scene.[/HIGHLIGHT]

Keep in mind that, before the 1960's, black Americans had illegitimate birth rates equal to or lower than whites, and kids were mostly raised in intact families. But that made them independent. Couldn't have that.

Does your social reform of "work or die" include the elderly, the mentally ill, the legitimately disabled, and children & orphans? There are many shades of grey in between your black and white judgmental condemnations of your fellow human beings. What about $cientologists escaping from the cult? Should they be treated the same? Sorry but I had enough of the you pulled it in, dispose of quietly without sorrow callous mentality when I was in $cientology, which is exactly what your ideas sound like.

 

[Enthetan]

Does your social reform of "work or die" include the elderly, the mentally ill, the legitimately disabled, and children & orphans?

No. My intention is towards the able-bodied who have decided to turn the "safety net" into a hammock.

 

[Free Being Me]

No. My intention is towards the able-bodied who have decided to turn the "safety net" into a hammock.

Your so-called reforms as previously stated are geared towards killing people off and people who through no fault of their own are disadvantaged will be effected directly or indirectly by your "work or die" decree. That's not social reform, that's murder.

 

[JustSheila]

You can knock off some 20-30% or more off all the figures to take into account the fact that in the 60s and earlier, US hospitals would not provide health insurance or any care for children of unwed mothers. (It's true - ask your parents or grandparents.) So a huge percentage had secret births and secret adoptions, even secret abortions, or the children were simply not recorded and abandoned. Then there were the paper marriages where the husband wasn't around, but just to get the healthcare for childbirth.

Plenty of illegitimate births also occurred in poverty stricken blue collar areas of England prior to WWII, when there was no welfare system.

I've brought this up to you before, Enthetan. You really should read or watch the 'Call the Midwife' series. It's a real eye opener. Horrible deaths and illegal home abortions in the poor areas. Sickening.

No, I like to think we have at least set a higher standard for social living than England had in the 1800s and no need to revert to those horrible times.

Yes, there is a lot of welfare abuse. Yes, the government has been incompetent and ineffective for generations in getting families off welfare. It takes coordination, planning and tremendous effort. Arguments like this don't go anywhere to get cooperation going on, they actually defeat it with radical insensitivity.

There are solutions. None of them are easy or fast. All require big social changes and a monstrous amount of agreement from everyone. That doesn't mean they are impossible or we have to revert to some barbaric system of the past.

 

[Enthetan]

Your so-called reforms as previously stated are geared towards killing people off and people who through no fault of their own are disadvantaged will be effected directly or indirectly by your "work or die" decree. That's not social reform, that's murder.

With some percentage, "no fault of their own" applies. With most, though, a lot of their current situation is through their own choices.

Deciding that studying in school is for "chumps" is a choice.

Deciding to hang out, play basketball, whatever, instead of doing homework, is a choice.

Deciding to drop out before graduation is a choice.

Deciding to do drugs is a choice.

In 2016, with all the birth control methods available, deciding to have kids she is not able to support is a choice.

Deciding to have MULTIPLE kids she cannot support, outside of marriage, is very definitely a choice.

Deciding to do all the above, in preference to work, is a choice.

Deciding to eliminate the consequences for bad choices, that have existed for most of human history, is a bad social policy choice.

 

[Free Being Me]

With some percentage, "no fault of their own" applies. With most, though, a lot of their current situation is through their own choices.

Deciding that studying in school is for "chumps" is a choice.

Deciding to hang out, play basketball, whatever, instead of doing homework, is a choice.

Deciding to drop out before graduation is a choice.

Deciding to do drugs is a choice.

In 2016, with all the birth control methods available, deciding to have kids she is not able to support is a choice.

Deciding to have MULTIPLE kids she cannot support, outside of marriage, is very definitely a choice.

Deciding to do all the above, in preference to work, is a choice.

Deciding to eliminate the consequences for bad choices, that have existed for most of human history, is a bad social policy choice.

And according to you by your narrow criteria, people deserve to die per your "social reforms" for their imperfections and mistakes. Doubling down on who you deem unworthy of life doesn't speak well about your inner humanity. Suppose someday you fell under someones short list of who should die? I bet you would be singing a different tune then. It's easy to pass judgment on others when you haven't walked in their shoes, as you are demonstrating ... repeatedly.

Would it make you feel better if you could open euthanasia centers watching all the people you've decided are undesirables marched inside? Would that make your day? Sounds like it would to me.

 

[Enthetan]

And according to you by your narrow criteria, people deserve to die for their imperfections. Doubling down on who you deem unworthy of life doesn't speak well about your inner humanity. Suppose someday you fell under someones short list of who should die? I bet you would be singing a different tune then. It's easy to pass judgment on others when you haven't walked in their shoes, as you are demonstrating ... repeatedly.

Would it make feel better if you could open euthanasia centers watching all the people you've decided are undesirables marched inside? Would that make your day? Sounds like it would to me.

[video=youtube;C6cxNR9ML8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k[/video]

No, I wasn't planning on sending people to the ovens.

I am serious about reducing the degree to which people are shielded from their bad decisions.

Or would you prefer we just let the problem increase to the point where the benefits system finally collapses? Because THAT will REALLY put people in a "...or die" situation.

 

[Free Being Me]

[video=youtube;C6cxNR9ML8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k[/video]

No, I wasn't planning on sending people to the ovens.

I am serious about reducing the degree to which people are shielded from their bad decisions.

Or would you prefer we just let the problem increase to the point where the benefits system finally collapses? Because THAT will REALLY put people in a "...or die" situation.

I'm glad to hear you don't have any final solution plans however your "work or die" idea would yield the same result. Six of one, half a dozen of another. Apples and apples. All things being equal and all that. Perhaps coming up with well thought out solutions (pardon the pun) empowering people instead of arbitrarily pronouncing death sentences would be the wiser course. Unless you want society to devolve into a survival of the fittest anarchy, which is a very distinct possibility under your humanitarian plan.

 

[TeaRose]

Maybe someone in the black world should offer an opinion.

Oh, I know!

ME.

I live in a black neighborhood, married to a black man, and I produced what all Americans love: a jumpy hyper black boy. You're welcome. Anyhoo, the model minorities like Asians need to be put into reality. The Vietnamese refugees usually had privileged backgrounds before they came here, and if you go around Houston you'd find that not everyone feels like we profited from their arrival. Asian American businesses are fairly infamous for labor violations as well. Guess they got problems like everyone else. But you don't know about all this because America doesn't have a fixated hatred of Asians.

Now let's talk about lazy, selfish, evil blacks. My husband has a doctorate and is, incredibly, still treated like crap. My friends struggle to get their children good education and just get finger wagged. Most work but are so underpaid they will always live hand-to-mouth. We put young men away for years over nickel bags and then are mystified when they come out as dysfunctional men with PTSD.

Black people don't get ahead because they are backhandedly sabotaged. So stop with the bootstrap lectures. And don't fall for the Southern Strategy scam. It's how politicians have been getting you to vote against your own self interest for decades. But I guess I should hope to reduce protection from the consequences of your actions.

 

[George Layton]

With some percentage, "no fault of their own" applies. With most, though, a lot of their current situation is through their own choices.

Deciding that studying in school is for "chumps" is a choice.

Deciding to hang out, play basketball, whatever, instead of doing homework, is a choice.

Deciding to drop out before graduation is a choice.

Deciding to do drugs is a choice.

In 2016, with all the birth control methods available, deciding to have kids she is not able to support is a choice.

Deciding to have MULTIPLE kids she cannot support, outside of marriage, is very definitely a choice.

Deciding to do all the above, in preference to work, is a choice.

Deciding to eliminate the consequences for bad choices, that have existed for most of human history, is a bad social policy choice.

I recall a line from a poem, I believe it was called "The Mountain and The Squirrel",

"All things and the weather must be taken in together."


Sure all of those are choices but those decisions don't always, or maybe ever, stand alone. So many different choices can be twisted together with factors of time, money, hopes and dreams, street education (learning by observing how others are getting by in a position of being born into poverty). Those are just a few examples of living life at a poverty level. Living a day to day life in whatever income level, a person is surrounded by all their daily life, outlook, ambitions, etc... and all those they meld with in their daily life. Then there is the social network that surrounds all those levels ever different depending upon station in life. You also have a social education that some may never even look at because of their "self" concerns. To many people live in a world of "immediate" want, they don't realize their choices are wrong and society is patricianly responsible for that because people in the position to make the choices necessary for a social betterment don't have that concern high up on their list of "what we need".

 

[DagwoodGum]

If Farrakhan Wants DM's Version of Scientology I say so be it and let it be.
Strange bedfellows, yes, but I do think they deserve each other.
So I'll suppress my giggles of joy and won't object a bit when the pastor asks "if anyone objects to this union, speak now or forever hold your peace".
Not a peep from me, but I've got the rice in hand already...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Lql6UL-zE

 

[Enthetan]

I'm glad to hear you don't have any final solution plans however your "work or die" idea would yield the same result. Six of one, half a dozen of another. Apples and apples. All things being equal and all that. Perhaps coming up with well thought out solutions (pardon the pun) empowering people instead of arbitrarily pronouncing death sentences would be the wiser course. Unless you want society to devolve into a survival of the fittest anarchy, which is a very distinct possibility under your humanitarian plan.

I don't want to "empower" people. I want to discourage people from making bad decisions.

It is not the case that cutting people off from unlimited government benefits would mean their deaths. There is the support network of family, friends, church charity, etc.

The latter support networks have the advantage of not having a bureaucracy with a vested interest in perpetuating poverty, for the sake of their own jobs, and are more likely to guide young people into making better decisions.

 

[Enthetan]

I live in a black neighborhood, married to a black man, and I produced what all Americans love: a jumpy hyper black boy. You're welcome.

Great!

Kids with a mom AND a dad are much more likely to do well in life, as the link in my earlier post pointed out.

Anyhoo, the model minorities like Asians need to be put into reality. The Vietnamese refugees usually had privileged backgrounds before they came here, and if you go around Houston you'd find that not everyone feels like we profited from their arrival. Asian American businesses are fairly infamous for labor violations as well. Guess they got problems like everyone else. But you don't know about all this because America doesn't have a fixated hatred of Asians.

America doesn't have a fixated hatred of blacks, either. The majority of the voting public likes blacks and wants them to succeed like any other American. Otherwise the various civil rights laws would never have passed.

As far as the Asians, I'm not concerned about whether they are angels and obey labor laws. Just about whether they raise their kids to be self-supporting, and not inclined to try to carjack me.

As far as their being of "privileged backgrounds", I assume you mean people who came from a culture of intact families, who do not have children outside of marriage, and have a history of entrepreneurship, then I guess they're "privileged", in the sense of having cultural advantages. That doesn't change the fact that most arrived in the US with nothing but their culture, and that even back in Vietnam were likely poorer than the average US citizen of the time, or even the average "poor" US citizen.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Great!

Kids with a mom AND a dad are much more likely to do well in life, as the link in my earlier post pointed out.



America doesn't have a fixated hatred of blacks, either. The majority of the voting public likes blacks and wants them to succeed like any other American. Otherwise the various civil rights laws would never have passed.

As far as the Asians, I'm not concerned about whether they are angels and obey labor laws. Just about whether they raise their kids to be self-supporting, and not inclined to try to carjack me.

As far as their being of "privileged backgrounds", I assume you mean people who came from a culture of intact families, who do not have children outside of marriage, and have a history of entrepreneurship, then I guess they're "privileged", in the sense of having cultural advantages. That doesn't change the fact that most arrived in the US with nothing but their culture, and that even back in Vietnam were likely poorer than the average US citizen of the time, or even the average "poor" US citizen.

Those kids need special care and empathy from both communities or they often become just one more angry Arab running amok waging some personal form of Jihad against a bewildered establishment (society).

 

[Free Being Me]

I don't want to "empower" people. I want to discourage people from making bad decisions.

It is not the case that cutting people off from unlimited government benefits would mean their deaths. There is the support network of family, friends, church charity, etc.

The latter support networks have the advantage of not having a bureaucracy with a vested interest in perpetuating poverty, for the sake of their own jobs, and are more likely to guide young people into making better decisions.

You don't want to empower people? Why not? Education, learning a trade, mentoring, etc. are perfectly valid modes of empowerment. By who's yardstick are you measuring bad decisions? Your own by that list you posted previously? That's what you think merits death? Because people make those mistakes they are "moochers" supposedly milking the system? Most of what you listed are the mistakes of teens and very young adults. Kids make mistakes as sure as adults do. People aren't perfect, no matter how much you wish them to be.

Now if you're concerned about people taking advantage of bureaucratic systems, which I think is your point, then surely better oversight of such abuses can be instituted rather than "work or die" because a lot of people who don't deserve that mandate are going to be lumped in with that ill thought policy.

Riddle me this. If a $cio comes here asking for help (many have over the years) trying to blow the cult should everyone answer with a "sorry, we are trying to discourage people from making bad decisions. It's your bloody fault for getting involved with $cientology in the first place. Good luck finding some help, figure it out or die." The sword you're proposing cuts both ways and heartless is heartless anyway you slice it.

 

[TeaRose]

Um, America absolutely has an obsessive hatred of blacks. Look into the history of the mythological welfare queen. Watch Bill O'Reilly fap on about them. We had violent resistance to desegregation. The Republican party understand very well that this hatred exists, thus the Southern Strategy. They've documented this themselves, it's not a liberal conspiracy theory.

Asians who came here were wealthy back home. That's what I mean by privilege. We also don't go out of our way to decimate their family structures through mass incarceration. Even with actual criminals in the community. No draconian sentences for them.

No, the majority of Americans do not like black people. Thus your anxiety about getting carjacked, which probably has never happened to you. You are unlikely to have a violent encounter with a black person where you are not the aggressor.

I get to see how people change towards me when they see my husband's face, though! But do tell me how everyone loves black people.

 

[TeaRose]

If you were on staff or in the Sea Org you swindled people out of thousands of dollars promising super powers. Plenty of you were violent and stalky enough that you could legally be in jail for 15 to life.

But you expect help and forgiveness because you were trapped in a system of abuse. Hhhhmmmm. I wonder what it's like being Americas scapegoat.

 

[cleared cannibal]

With some percentage, "no fault of their own" applies. With most, though, a lot of their current situation is through their own choices.

Deciding that studying in school is for "chumps" is a choice.

Deciding to hang out, play basketball, whatever, instead of doing homework, is a choice.

Deciding to drop out before graduation is a choice.

Deciding to do drugs is a choice.

In 2016, with all the birth control methods available, deciding to have kids she is not able to support is a choice.

Deciding to have MULTIPLE kids she cannot support, outside of marriage, is very definitely a choice.

Deciding to do all the above, in preference to work, is a choice.

Deciding to eliminate the consequences for bad choices, that have existed for most of human history, is a bad social policy choice.

There needs to be some unpleasant consequenses for poor choices not rewards. What those are to be is what is in discussion, I think or do some want to reward them? Our state has just passed a law that you can't get food stamps unless you work or if you can't find a job they have a list of places one can volunteer. 20 hrs per week . Transportation can even be arranged. The libs would have you believe that people are are going to be starving by the droves because of this. I guess my feeling is that if you too lazy to do one of these you need to starve. Exceptions have been made for medical issues and non able body people. They have said crime will increase. I disagree , most of these people are too lazy to steal. The welfare system has to a large degree taken away people's desire to improve away, they are satisfied to live in squalid conditions. Star Parker( a black woman) has written a book about this and the black community . http://www.unclesamsplantation.com/

 

[Enthetan]

Riddle me this. If a $cio comes here asking for help (many have over the years) trying to blow the cult should everyone answer with a "sorry, we are trying to discourage people from making bad decisions. It's your bloody fault for getting involved with $cientology in the first place. Good luck finding some help, figure it out or die." The sword you're proposing cuts both ways and heartless is heartless anyway you slice it.

Actually, I've had several Scios come to me over the years, and I generally help them out. One, with health issues who would otherwise have been homeless on the street, I let stay with me for a couple of years until he got better. Another, I let sleep on my couch for a few months, on and off. One lady, getting out of an abuse situation, several weeks until she got another place. Another lady, also several weeks on my couch. Another woman, and her kid, who had just been offloaded from the SO and would otherwise have had to sleep in her car, a few days.

But they ASKED me for help. Nicely. They didn't come with the attitude that I OWED them help, or have people demand at gunpoint that I help (which is the real situation when there is government-mandated help, if you think about it. The taxpayers financing it have no choice, not if they don't want IRS agents kicking in their doors). I also gave them a generous helping of advice on how to get back on their own feet, and demanded that they take steps to do so.

I'm free with my help when it's MY choice. I get downright surly when people presume they have the right to make demands on me. You see the difference.

 

[Enthetan]

No, the majority of Americans do not like black people. Thus your anxiety about getting carjacked, which probably has never happened to you. You are unlikely to have a violent encounter with a black person where you are not the aggressor.

I've actually been mugged three times over the years. Twice by young black men, once by a Hispanic man. My aunt was mugged, by a black man. I once had to discourage a guy (black) from trying to pull me out of my car (pointing my handgun at him encouraged him to go elsewhere, quickly).

Despite that, I have no animosity against anyone who does not attempt violence against me. While there are some people who hate black people, they are not the majority, or even a sizeable minority, and I think you are very-much overstating the situation.