What's new

"Blacks need Scientology and Nation of Islam to help resolve their conflicts."

JustSheila

Crusader
Um, America absolutely has an obsessive hatred of blacks. Look into the history <snip>

It seems to many in the US that racial divisions and conflicts have worsened in America over the last ten years or so.

Before that, I saw conditions and attitudes continue to improve through the 70s and 80s and even part of the 90s.

No doubt I was raised with discriminatory attitudes that I learned to later discard. So were other black and white Americans of my generation. But we grew up. So did America. Now there's a reversion and it's so sad to see.

To me (and dare I say it, the majority of others of either race of our generation), bringing up the misunderstandings and mistaken attitudes of our past serves no good purpose. It just reignites old wounds. Wounds that we were mature enough to overcome, to get past.

We had gotten to the point that the majority of Americans just didn't even see the color of another's skin, only the individuals in front of them. Why is that changing again? Why so much emphasis on skin color? How is that a good thing?

Why do the younger generations want to keep picking at old wounds? How can America heal and move forward when so many want to focus on the past and keep stirring up old stuff?

It's like taking a family fight from 30 years ago, a fight that was resolved with apologies, hugs, genuine compassion and love - a fight from which we all learned an important lesson, then bringing it up again as if we'd never made up, never learned, never gone forward.

I don't like this. It's tearing up America.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Most of what you listed are the mistakes of teens and very young adults. Kids make mistakes as sure as adults do. People aren't perfect, no matter how much you wish them to be.

Yep, teens screw up frequently. Hence the value of having a father in the house, who can tell them "No, that's a bad decision. Not going to happen".

Like with my Eldest Spawn, who came up to me and said "I want to be an Art major", whereupon I said "You can take all the art courses you want as a minor, and even more when you are self supporting. For any college that you want ME to pay for, you shall pick a major that I will be confident you can earn a living at". Eldest Spawn now has a Masters degree in engineering.

Hence my wanting to have disincentives to unmarried women having kids.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
I've actually been mugged three times over the years. Twice by young black men, once by a Hispanic man. My aunt was mugged, by a black man. I once had to discourage a guy (black) from trying to pull me out of my car (pointing my handgun at him encouraged him to go elsewhere, quickly).

Despite that, I have no animosity against anyone who does not attempt violence against me. While there are some people who hate black people, they are not the majority, or even a sizeable minority, and I think you are very-much overstating the situation.

Yes, I too was mugged by the same plus I actually was car jacked by a young black male.
That's a rather long and horribly eventful experience I'll spare you but I was able to learn from it.
Now I speak and determine better ways for me to survive from an experiential rather than prejudicial place.
No one can take my real experiences away from me or convince me that being a realist is being a racist.
Experience says I need to profile, end of story.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
It seems to many in the US that racial divisions and conflicts have worsened in America over the last ten years or so.

Before that, I saw conditions and attitudes continue to improve through the 70s and 80s and even part of the 90s.

No doubt I was raised with discriminatory attitudes that I learned to later discard. So were other black and white Americans of my generation. But we grew up. So did America. Now there's a reversion and it's so sad to see.

To me (and dare I say it, the majority of others of either race of our generation), bringing up the misunderstandings and mistaken attitudes of our past serves no good purpose. It just reignites old wounds. Wounds that we were mature enough to overcome, to get past.

We had gotten to the point that the majority of Americans just didn't even see the color of another's skin, only the individuals in front of them. Why is that changing again? Why so much emphasis on skin color? How is that a good thing?

Why do the younger generations want to keep picking at old wounds? How can America heal and move forward when so many want to focus on the past and keep stirring up old stuff?

It's like taking a family fight from 30 years ago, a fight that was resolved with apologies, hugs, genuine compassion and love - a fight from which we all learned an important lesson, then bringing it up again as if we'd never made up, never learned, never gone forward.

I don't like this. It's tearing up America.

From the point of view of an outsider looking in, it would appear that relations between blacks and whites in America are deteriorating.

Perhaps they were improving as living standards gradually rose post-war and the 'American Dream' was still alive and well in the hearts of 'ordinary people', but over the last 20 years or so, very little has improved vis-à-vis the living standards of these ordinary people, in fact they have got worse as the banksters, multinationals and hedge-funds continue to hollow-out the economy.

With less and less to go around, resentment of those who are seen to be 'not pulling their weight' grows.

It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better IMO.
 
Last edited:

JustSheila

Crusader
If you were on staff or in the Sea Org you swindled people out of thousands of dollars promising super powers. Plenty of you were violent and stalky enough that you could legally be in jail for 15 to life.

But you expect help and forgiveness because you were trapped in a system of abuse. Hhhhmmmm. I wonder what it's like being Americas scapegoat.

You don't really know much of anything about Scientology, do you?

FEW exstaff (probably less than 5%) ever were in a position to swindle anybody and even less were in any position to commit violence or stalk anyone (2%, maybe?).

A very large percentage CHOSE not to be in those positions by refusing.

And who is the 'you' that you refer to that 'expect help and forgiveness'? WTF are you talking about? Nearly all of us made it out on our own and scrambled together our families, friends, education and climbed up out of the rut without any or very little government assistance, American or otherwise.

EDITED because ITYIWT said it much better so please read her post one extra time for me.
 
Last edited:

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
It seems to many in the US that racial divisions and conflicts have worsened in America over the last ten years or so.

Before that, I saw conditions and attitudes continue to improve through the 70s and 80s and even part of the 90s.


No doubt I was raised with discriminatory attitudes that I learned to later discard. So were other black and white Americans of my generation. But we grew up. So did America. Now there's a reversion and it's so sad to see.

To me (and dare I say it, the majority of others of either race of our generation), bringing up the misunderstandings and mistaken attitudes of our past serves no good purpose. It just reignites old wounds. Wounds that we were mature enough to overcome, to get past.

We had gotten to the point that the majority of Americans just didn't even see the color of another's skin, only the individuals in front of them. Why is that changing again? Why so much emphasis on skin color? How is that a good thing?

Why do the younger generations want to keep picking at old wounds? How can America heal and move forward when so many want to focus on the past and keep stirring up old stuff?

It's like taking a family fight from 30 years ago, a fight that was resolved with apologies, hugs, genuine compassion and love - a fight from which we all learned an important lesson, then bringing it up again as if we'd never made up, never learned, never gone forward.

I don't like this. It's tearing up America.


This is a problem made worse or even originated now by lack of leadership (passive) and outright destructive intent and action (aggressive).

Tearing America up is the desired product. When things get bad enough for enough people they will demand a change from the "savior" that presents itself. School children have been purposefully dumbed-down. As an example, we no longer teach civics. I just saw a video where college students were asked if they approve of Karl Marx being Hillary Clinton's running mate in the election. The students shown were in favor. In another video people did not know who Joe Biden is. To expect such people to make an intelligent choice when voting is totally absurd. Compounding the problem, we have not a reporting media of fact but much editorial opinion and outright propaganda lies. Even if intelligent, a person can't make a rational choice on faulty data.

I agree with your observations in that the black/white situation appears to be getting worse. There was high hope that with a black/white president improvements would accelerate. Instead he has served to foment division. He could not have gotten into office without the support of a lot of white people. If having a black president was key, we could have had Herman Cain, not a politician but a successful business man. Oh, wait. He ran as a Republican. Democrats couldn't have that. Cain reached the point in his campaign where he and his family were mercilessly attacked so he dropped out. Allan West, a military vet and patriot, was pushed out of his Senate seat in Florida. Another Republican.

On the plus side, I read of a high school in NY for blacks with a graduation rate approaching 100%. Students are going on to and graduating college.

Here is one:

Brooklyn College Academy has ushered many students like Bridgewater and Polite successfully through high school: 100 percent of the school's black students graduated on time last year, and almost all of them went on to four-year colleges. In contrast, the overall graduation rate for black male students in New York City was 58 percent in 2014.

School officials say their model is replicable – but only in schools where the adults are willing to pay relentless attention and to hold the students to consistently high expectations.​

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/14/at-this-low-income-brooklyn-public-high-school-100-percent-of-black-students-graduate


This reminds me of a situation I noticed many years ago in auditing pc's at the mission. It is very disheartening to help a person get their thoughts and emotions sorted out (clearing) making a virtual clean slate in the areas being addressed, only to have someone or something else come along writing on that slate. We used to say the pc was PTS to an outside influence. But I have seen many lose clarity as the organization writes on that clean slate. They end up joining staff or spending all their money that was designated for a different purpose. Results are the same as if PTS to someone outside only the organization is never found to be the suppressive source until they wake up and finally escape.

Back to the community, black, redneck, druggie, upper-class snobs, gangs, whatever, the community will not permit certain individualities to emerge, grow, and prosper according to the individual's own desires. Where, as mentioned above, the adults are willing to pay relentless attention and hold the students to consistently high expectations, they have effectively changed the culture surrounding those students thus enabling success.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
If you were on staff or in the Sea Org you swindled people out of thousands of dollars promising super powers. Plenty of you were violent and stalky enough that you could legally be in jail for 15 to life.

But you expect help and forgiveness because you were trapped in a system of abuse. Hhhhmmmm. I wonder what it's like being Americas scapegoat.



I resent your comment but can understand how you could have arrived at it if you have been skimming though ESMB posts and trying to understand the culture of scientology.

We tend to assist each other here (as much as it's possible to by simply chatting) ... but most of us are well aware that we were pretty stupid for getting involved in a cult in the first place (please remove any generational scientologists from that equation).

I've never heard of any ex scio asking, demanding or expecting "help or forgiveness" (or anything else) from anyone, and that is as it should be.

Most of us were not involved in any swindling, stalking or violence and neither need nor want "help or forgiveness" from anyone.

:)


 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
I feel this is the real reason for the deteriorating race relations along harder economic conditions. I don't totally blame Obama as the link sort of infers, he is only the classic "useful idiot". the plan is proceeding on schedule.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/Rules for Revolution (2).pdf

Snip

The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution.” In other words the cause -
whether inner city blacks or women - is never the
6 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17388372
/
9
real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real
cause which is the accumulation of
power
to make
the revolution.
That
was the all consuming focus of
Alinsky and his radicals.

I came across this article which compares the US of 1956 to the US of 2016 , interesting. general moral ,economic spiritual, and educational decay.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/america-1956-vs-america-2016

 

phenomanon

Canyon
It seems to many in the US that racial divisions and conflicts have worsened in America over the last ten years or so.

Before that, I saw conditions and attitudes continue to improve through the 70s and 80s and even part of the 90s.

No doubt I was raised with discriminatory attitudes that I learned to later discard. So were other black and white Americans of my generation. But we grew up. So did America. Now there's a reversion and it's so sad to see.

To me (and dare I say it, the majority of others of either race of our generation), bringing up the misunderstandings and mistaken attitudes of our past serves no good purpose. It just reignites old wounds. Wounds that we were mature enough to overcome, to get past.

We had gotten to the point that the majority of Americans just didn't even see the color of another's skin, only the individuals in front of them. Why is that changing again? Why so much emphasis on skin color? How is that a good thing?

Why do the younger generations want to keep picking at old wounds? How can America heal and move forward when so many want to focus on the past and keep stirring up old stuff?

It's like taking a family fight from 30 years ago, a fight that was resolved with apologies, hugs, genuine compassion and love - a fight from which we all learned an important lesson, then bringing it up again as if we'd never made up, never learned, never gone forward.

I don't like this. It's tearing up America.



You are going to see a ton more racism in Tennessee than you will see when you leave the Bible Belt.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
If you were on staff or in the Sea Org you swindled people out of thousands of dollars promising super powers. Plenty of you were violent and stalky enough that you could legally be in jail for 15 to life.

But you expect help and forgiveness because you were trapped in a system of abuse. Hhhhmmmm. I wonder what it's like being Americas scapegoat.
Um, no. :no: You have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Actually, I've had several Scios come to me over the years, and I generally help them out. One, with health issues who would otherwise have been homeless on the street, I let stay with me for a couple of years until he got better. Another, I let sleep on my couch for a few months, on and off. One lady, getting out of an abuse situation, several weeks until she got another place. Another lady, also several weeks on my couch. Another woman, and her kid, who had just been offloaded from the SO and would otherwise have had to sleep in her car, a few days.

But they ASKED me for help. Nicely. They didn't come with the attitude that I OWED them help, or have people demand at gunpoint that I help (which is the real situation when there is government-mandated help, if you think about it. The taxpayers financing it have no choice, not if they don't want IRS agents kicking in their doors). I also gave them a generous helping of advice on how to get back on their own feet, and demanded that they take steps to do so.

I'm free with my help when it's MY choice. I get downright surly when people presume they have the right to make demands on me. You see the difference.

That's cool you helped those people. Moving on, I see this is about your dissatisfaction with paying taxes that fund money going to people less fortunate than you. Per your "work or die" statement, they are "downstat" losers who deserve to die alone the dark. I'm glad we had this conversation, it's a happy contrast seeing how far I've come from the hard cynical uncaring cultist indoctrination crap I used to believe in.

Yep, teens screw up frequently. Hence the value of having a father in the house, who can tell them "No, that's a bad decision. Not going to happen".

Like with my Eldest Spawn, who came up to me and said "I want to be an Art major", whereupon I said "You can take all the art courses you want as a minor, and even more when you are self supporting. For any college that you want ME to pay for, you shall pick a major that I will be confident you can earn a living at". Eldest Spawn now has a Masters degree in engineering.

[HIGHLIGHT]Hence my wanting to have disincentives to unmarried women having kids.[/HIGHLIGHT]
Your disincentive of live your life my way or die is a bit draconian. It reminds me of North Korea.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Per your "work or die" statement, they are "downstat" losers who deserve to die alone the dark.

More like, some people need an incentive to change out of dysfunctional behavior. And the change is best effected before the behavior has had generations to become set in stone, and before the number of dysfunctional dependents exceeds the carrying capacity of the system.
 

TeaRose

Patron


I resent your comment but can understand how you could have arrived at it if you have been skimming though ESMB posts and trying to understand the culture of scientology.

We tend to assist each other here (as much as it's possible to by simply chatting) ... but most of us are well aware that we were pretty stupid for getting involved in a cult in the first place (please remove any generational scientologists from that equation).

I've never heard of any ex scio asking, demanding or expecting "help or forgiveness" (or anything else) from anyone, and that is as it should be.

Most of us were not involved in any swindling, stalking or violence and neither need nor want "help or forgiveness" from anyone.

:)


Now this is interesting- getting resentful of being stereotyped but will happily dish it out to black people. Based on "experience." And if you so much as attempted to get outsiders to join or even like Scientology, that was harmful. But you guys do want forgiveness and help and you should have it by right of beinghuman beings. You were trapped in oppression. Have the same attitude for black people and use a little critical thinking. Their circumstances are due to crappy attitudes, laziness, horniness and rap music? Really?

Dropping out of high school: often to make time for a job. This is part of the poverty cycle. You need money now, but will make far less in the long run. Too bad, mom is about to get evicted. No black person who is an adult thinks education is for suckas. Of course they don't. Use your heads.
Broken families: orchestrated effort for mass incarceration. White college boys could experiment with no consequences but not black boys. Nurp, it's 5-10 years for you, pal. It became normalized. Poverty usually breaks families up. White people with low income have the same family issues.
Resentful attitudes towards clueless white people: can you blame them?

I was mugged in the early 2000s by a white tweaker. Experience should make me a realist, right? Or is it totally different because meth?

This isn't mysterious woo- the mechanics of systemic racism are well understood, studied and documented. Only conservative pundits are confused about how it works.
 

TeaRose

Patron
More like, some people need an incentive to change out of dysfunctional behavior. And the change is best effected before the behavior has had generations to become set in stone, and before the number of dysfunctional dependents exceeds the carrying capacity of the system.

Welfare is very tight in America, and you need to drop the illusions that people on welfare are enjoying semi-stability, let alone luxury. Poverty in the US has swelled because unionized, blue collar jobs were sent overseas. It used to be perfectly doable to make a stable living as a high school dropout, and within a very short time frame, that disappeared. So not only were people having to deal with this new reality, they are perpetually under the gun to make money NOW to avoid an eviction notice and make up what food stamps don't cover. (They don't cover all that much).

The incentive out of dysfunctional behavior would be a protected, firm avenue to stability. No more sending jobs overseas. Public healthcare. Generous food stamps, which cost only crumbs of the budget. (Look at a pie chart. You can't even see the slice it takes up). Then people have the time to improve their lives. It's not a coincidence that middle class people are less likely to get divorced, or have any kind of avoidable life crisis.

Raise the minimum wage and ending labor exploitation. If the minimum wage kept up with inflation and executive pay raises, it would be $22 an hour. Think about that the next time 15 an hour sounds ridiculous.

Or you know, we could stick with the flogging until morale improves. We've been doing that since the 80's, I'm sure we'll get good results any minute now.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
More like, some people need an incentive to change out of dysfunctional behavior. And the change is best effected before the behavior has had generations to become set in stone, and before the number of dysfunctional dependents exceeds the carrying capacity of the system.
That's why empowerment is so important as I mentioned earlier. Educating people with effective tools to enable positive changes through their own actions. You and the people who like your posts seem more interested in shaming judgmental condemning punishment which is the opposite of empowerment.

What do you think ESMB is about? Empowerment! Ex's give emotional support, share their hardships, recommend cult recovery books, encourage each other, help people escape the cult, cheer each other on living a cult free life, and the list goes on. That's empowerment. If you can't understand that then I don't have much else to say.
 

ethercat

Cat in flight
Now this is interesting- getting resentful of being stereotyped but will happily dish it out to black people. Based on "experience."

I don't see where "I told you I was trouble", to whom you're replying, has posted anything about black people, let alone dishing anything out. Can you point me to a post?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
That's why empowerment is so important as I mentioned earlier. Educating people with effective tools to enable positive changes through their own actions. You and the people who like your posts seem more interested in shaming judgmental condemning punishment which is the opposite of empowerment.

What do you think ESMB is about? Empowerment! Ex's give emotional support, share their hardships, recommend cult recovery books, encourage each other, help people escape the cult, cheer each other on living a cult free life, and the list goes on. That's empowerment. If you can't understand that then I don't have much else to say.

re the bolded line above.

I've liked some of Enthetans posts because I agree with them, and neither you nor anyone else will "shame, judge or condemn" me for it, it seems you are just in the mood for an argument and will misinterpret almost anything posted to accommodate that urge ... so that's all I'll be saying at the moment to you.



 

Francois Tremblay

Patron with Honors
JustSheila, please don't take this badly, but that has to be the most White post I've ever read on this board. Seriously, treating race like it's irrelevant to our modern world is a ridiculously privileged position to take. I know you meant it in a good way but... geeze. You're just burying your head to the realities of racial war in America. Of course you can afford to bury your head when it doesn't affect you personally.
 

Edwardo

Patron with Honors
JustSheila, please don't take this badly, but that has to be the most White post I've ever read on this board. Seriously, treating race like it's irrelevant to our modern world is a ridiculously privileged position to take. I know you meant it in a good way but... geeze. You're just burying your head to the realities of racial war in America. Of course you can afford to bury your head when it doesn't affect you personally.

I don't like the way you use white as a pejorative term.

I don't believe that people have less understanding, or that their views have less validity because of their skin color or wealth.

You feel there is a racial war and you don't like that this is ignored.

I believe that things have gone terribly for both the black and white people of Rhodesia and South Africa under black rule. Maybe you're right and there is a race war in the US, and it would be better for white people to be more aware of it.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Now this is interesting- getting resentful of being stereotyped but will happily dish it out to black people. Based on "experience." And if you so much as attempted to get outsiders to join or even like Scientology, that was harmful. But you guys do want forgiveness and help and you should have it by right of beinghuman beings. You were trapped in oppression. Have the same attitude for black people and use a little critical thinking. Their circumstances are due to crappy attitudes, laziness, horniness and rap music? Really?

Dropping out of high school: often to make time for a job. This is part of the poverty cycle. You need money now, but will make far less in the long run. Too bad, mom is about to get evicted. No black person who is an adult thinks education is for suckas. Of course they don't. Use your heads.
Broken families: orchestrated effort for mass incarceration. White college boys could experiment with no consequences but not black boys. Nurp, it's 5-10 years for you, pal. It became normalized. Poverty usually breaks families up. White people with low income have the same family issues.
Resentful attitudes towards clueless white people: can you blame them?

I was mugged in the early 2000s by a white tweaker. Experience should make me a realist, right? Or is it totally different because meth?

This isn't mysterious woo- the mechanics of systemic racism are well understood, studied and documented. Only conservative pundits are confused about how it works.


I wasn't going to respond to this because I felt you had perhaps posted it to me by mistake ... but just so you know, if I could do anything to change the way things are I would do so in a heartbeat, as so many would.

Of course it's wrong that people are still being treated like shit and are living in poverty (no matter what colour they are) and of course it's wrong that people take advantage of others and abuse social assistance (no matter what colour they are) and it's wrong that people are stuffing drugs into themselves, creating mass mental illness and attacking the innocent left, right and centre (no matter what colour they are).

In an ideal world none of this would be happening ... but it's not even close to being an ideal world is it?

I have no idea what it will take now for us all to wake up, grow up and start to behave like civilised human beings who are sharing this once very beautiful planet ... but I suspect it would take much more than a mere nuclear war to shift the hatred and bitterness of many, hatred and bitterness that they have been taught by those who have often (but not always) genuinely suffered.

Being "right" seems to matter more than anything else.

I have nothing miraculous or clever to offer you ... but I truly wish I had.


 
Top