My defence of Terril _ /facepalm

[OTBT]

Good to know.

I'm done ranting.

It's been a while since I had a good rant, and I feel much better now

 

[Infinite]

During the 1970s (pre-Miscavige), I can recall seeing some people in Orgs wearing black minsters outfits with clerical colors. For the most part it was considered quite clever and kind of cute. Little old ladies would see one of these fellows (it was always guys) on the street and say, "My, what a nice young minister," thinking the person was from a Christian church

As you have previously posted on, there is definitely a tendency amongst Scientologists - both in and outside of the cult - to apply the "victim tech". As for the religious garb, you can still see traces of it popping up in the Freezone . . .

 

[Terril park]

You didn't answer my question.

Original post

Neither have you answered any of the other inconvenient questions on the wwp thread where you claimed to answer sensible questions.

Never listened to tyhe lectures you refer to.

 

[nexus100]

Terril has shown some poor judgement recently (and I probably have too).

But that doesn't mean I dislike him or want him to leave. I just don't think the SS forum was warranted and I wish he'd learn some discretion.

My 2c.

Showing what is, is never a bad idea. The process may seem to raise hackles, but it is always interesting and opens more doors than it closes. There's always plenty of misery in the wings, anyway, for those who want it. My opinion.

 

[Alanzo]

Hey, Terril is cool with me. I'd drink beers with the dude....as long as he didn't try to connect alligator clips to the empty cans and hand them to me.

But what if he connected the alligator clips to your nipples, instead?

 

[Smilla]

If anyone criticizes Scn as a therapy, you say it's a religion, if anyone criticizes it as a religion, you say it's a therapy.

Mostly those leaving the COS for FZ want to keep connected to tech.
Thus an obvious connection. Helping those who wish to leave COS and have
no desire to continue with tech, is more often done on this forum. They don't best I know ask the FZ for help.

There is a website for those leaving the SO:-

http://sites.google.com/site/xseaorg/home

The number for the UK is mine. In UK (London) call 0208 864 4940

Happy to talk to anyone.




I'm the prime marketer of the FZ. There isn't really anywhere to recruit one to. If someone asks, I'll direct them to someone near. Can't recall that ever happening though. Well one highly trained guy who wants to C/S for independents did ask and I think I posted on my forum or to some techies he was available. Dunno if anything developed.

My primary job is connecting people up. Usually people who want auditing.



The ethics tech has much value. ONLY if the direction is for enhancing the clients life. Mary Freeman, class VIII [under LRH] has developed a wonderful program for such. Its in fact a powerful case action. There are somse SSs in the FZ ss thread.

On this area there are some excellent essays by Mr Clearbird, detailing how
scn basics are violated by certain ethics and other policies.

http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/index.htm


(fair game, dead agenting, covert operations)

These are known by us in the FZ as being applied to us!



Not sure on that. There is in general limited problems with talk
therapy. Which scn is.



Its produced a lot of what Hubbard said it could. Specially lower levels.

Upper levels seem more limited in success but has also produced
excellent results.

I know a few FZers who are also qualified psychologists. On the whole they consider that scn is far more effective.

Metapsychology and TIR created by Frank Gerbode [ class VI] seems to
be doing very well in the mainstream.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Veda, totally ok to call me Fluff or Fluffy. A lot of my friends do.

 

[dianaclass8]

My opinions here. . . .

You guys crucifying Terril, how would you handle this? Remember Terril's interest is in connecting up people wanting FZ services with people who deliver them.

So Terril hears about some gross out-ethics on a FZ auditor's part, like ripping someone off for thousands of dollars and refusing to correct it. And it is someone well-known in the FZ, not someone no-one has heard of. What does he do about it? He's a pretty straight guy, and wants to do the right thing. On the one hand, he wants to either (1) straighten it out to some extent, like at least getting the money repaid (correcting the tendency to rip people off using Scn tech is not so easy!) or (2) make it known to prospective clients that Auditor X has reportedly ripped someone off and so proceed with caution. On the other hand, I assume he doesn't want to air FZ dirty laundry for the CofS to exploit. I've worked as an insurance claims adjuster for auto accidents, and learned that you should always listen to both sides of the story. But what do you do if there is no system for doing this? The CofS Chaplain's Court sometimes worked, although often did not. At least both parties (in theory) got to have their say.

Anyway, what do you do in such a situation of a reported gross rip-off? I don't have an easy answer. Back in 2004/5 I worked with someone in the FZ. After 4 1/2 months I decided his tech sucked and he was a rip-off artist. I told him so to his face, and said I was moving on. I wrote up exactly what had happened with the dozen people concerned to cause me to come to that conclusion and posted it to Terril's FZ group and also added it to my indexed archive of 2004-6 internet postings at http://fzglobal.org/writings.htm. I named the errant FZ person, but not the dozen clients. I have left that post up as-is, and if someone Googles that person's name, they may or may not find it (it's not a unique name).

I recently bought a Kindle 3 and book reading light from amazon.com, well, amazon.co.uk. A few days or a week after the delivery, they ask you to write a review of the product, good or bad. Before purchasing these products, I read dozens of such reviews from customers, and found them very useful, and influential in guiding my purchasing decisions. It would be useful to have such a system for FZ practitioners. I actually set one up in 2004, a Yahoo group called FZTechRatings, but it didn't catch on. It wasn't a perfect system, but it was a workable system. . . .

But say you went to Joe Schmoe for auditing and were unhappy with the experience. And Joe Schmoe is a "big name" in the FZ. What do you do about it? My limited experience about it is that the person who has been screwed over will *not* promote the bad experience broadly like I did, not even to the extent of posting the details to a FZ group. They may discuss it with a small group of friends, or "report it" to Terril or IFA (the FZ CofS wannabe), but don't want to post it broadly, maybe because it is "entheta." I think now that they should take it to a small claims court if in the same country and such a legal system exists there. But if in a different country?

Paul

Paul, let's say out in the open here, I am the auditor X you are talking about here, and I did not rip anybody off. Only few people asked me for my side of the story, be it. I went all the way to England to audit PC Y, she was for the most part not following the agreements which I am not going to discuss here, but the fact is I ended up wasting a lot of my time and got stranded in a foreign country. I am not going to say I did not make any mistakes, I did, the first one amongst others was going to somebody's house whom I did not know and was not my friend...that alone put the PC in charge and me at effect. So that made things complicated to say the least.

PC was not happy and neither was I, but nevertheless I felt I was responsible, so, to show my goodwill, I offered PC Y a refund (for services rendered but she was unhappy about) and a free intensive for the PC's daughter and invited her to come to LA, and part amicably. In other words, I go to England; it does not work I want to part amicably...and I not only lose time but money and on top of that I still offer free auditing, yet it is not good enough. Sheesh!

PC opted to badmouth me with others and my policy to people who attack me and slander me is that , I just simply feel that I don't have to go out of my way for them and I move on.

I had to leave the country at my own expense ended up costing me almost $900 dollars, and was very, very upset with myself and the situation. I came home and got it handled, had a session, did the cramming and even went over the cycle with a terminal BB wanted me to go to... "to correct" myself.

In the meantime PC Y enlists BB and Ken Urqhart to get involved in the slander and the make wrongs and all three started bombarding me with orders, evaluations and invalidations. Nothing would appease them. So who protect auditors from people slandering them? It is both ways no?

Ed, in a desire to help me and the PC, gave PC Y A LOT of free auditing to calm her down and to handle the "ARCX" PC...yet PC was still ranting and raving all over the place.

I want to clarify that I do not audit for the money, those who know me well, also know that my financial situation is very good. Not millionaire but I live very confortable. I do not make a living as an auditor and have given lots of free auditing to many, many people.

Who corrects the correctors? Who in their desire to impart 'justice' become the instigators of a lot of gossip, slander and more 'entheta" than the church? I mean, we don't need the church or OSA attacking the FZ, and to make matters worse BB involved Emma in the brawl. I still don't know why.

So my name is now in the Freezone Survivors list. So? Nobody has died yet and we are alive and well. Move on people! Move West if you must!

All of you can have opinions about this and I don't even know if my posts are read by any. But we need to end cycle on this.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul, let's say out in the open here, I am the auditor X you are talking about here, and I did not rip anybody off.

Diana, your situation was one of them. I can think of three other well-known FZ auditors I have heard disgusting rip-off stories about since 2004, and I was not referring to you alone. Whether or not you ripped off pc Y I don't have enough info to ascertain, but clearly pc Y and family were not happy with what happened.

Paul

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Diana, your situation was one of them. I can think of three other well-known FZ auditors I have heard disgusting rip-off stories about since 2004, and I was not referring to you alone. Whether or not you ripped off pc Y I don't have enough info to ascertain, but clearly pc Y and family were not happy with what happened.

Paul

Sure. But there are people in this world whom, no matter WHAT one does, will never be happy. Usually they have a screw loose. So I don't give a flying FUCK whether that PC is happy or not. It sounds like someone who will never BE happy. I've known Diana for years as have a number of critics. She's done a lot to help the critic's scene over the years- I'd best let her post about any of that, if she chooses. But her info and everything she does has always been reliable. She has the proven track record, the pc does not. I doubt there's an experienced auditor or ANY therapist or counsellor...or...orr...anywhere in the world who doesn't have at least one unsatisfied customer.

Diana bent over backwards to appease this nutball over in England. Then she bent over backwards to appease Terril. Then she got black prd.

So fuck the fucking FZ Survivor's List and fuck everyone who gives credence to it. No offense, Paul. I think you're awesome and I also think the people here on ESMB are awesome...ALL of them. But yeah, fuck that fucking list.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I'd say that Diana is the one who got ripped off. Nothing like being stranded in a foreign country. If that pc from England is reading this, you ought to be ashamed.

 

[dianaclass8]

Diana, your situation was one of them. I can think of three other well-known FZ auditors I have heard disgusting rip-off stories about since 2004, and I was not referring to you alone. Whether or not you ripped off pc Y I don't have enough info to ascertain, but clearly pc Y and family were not happy with what happened.

Paul

Paul, I have also heard those stories of rip off and it does break my heart to see that. I wish that something could be done about it too. BB tries and he has good intentions...but with him, the saying 'The Road to hell is paved with good intentions' really applies well.

All I can say, is that I try my best, some PCs are happy, some are not. You can never please everybody even when you go out of your way. Such is life.

Diana

 

[dianaclass8]

I'd say that Diana is the one who got ripped off. Nothing like being stranded in a foreign country. If that pc from England is reading this, you ought to be ashamed.

Thank you!! I wish that BB would have really helped the PC by telling to take responsibility on her part too.

Love you!
Diana

 

[Voltaire's Child]

It reminds me of something that happened to me when I was in Collections. Now, I had a reputation for appeasing customers, not for being mean to them. I did NOT have a track record for getting complained about, unlike some of my coworkers. So I talked to this borrower, a raving bitch. She got mad and hung up on me. I decided not to call her back so as not to make things worse. She called my supervisor then claimed that I hung up on HER. The supervisor said "I have to go by what SHE says." Never listened to me. And what borrower had said was a lie and if the supv would have asked me, she'd have found out the scoop.

So sometimes someone in charge listens only to one side. You know, there's a REASON CofS has that "sorry up statistic" thingie. Not that they adhere to it consistently. We all know that Keystone Kult is Keystone Kult. BUT that policy, as written, is there for a reason. If you have someone with a good track record it's an indication as to whether or not a later allegation may be true.

So who has which track record? A pc who had one auditor in the FZ, probably , and left someone stranded, or a long time auditor who has also done much to help critics on matters unrelated to the FZ? And of course people would want to check out what's being said, I get that, but even so, you get BOTH sides. NOT ONE.

Also you went and got the ethics repair or whatever the fuck it was that BB asked you to get and it's still somehow a fucking problem??

Jesus God.

 

[dianaclass8]

Sure. But there are people in this world whom, no matter WHAT one does, will never be happy. Usually they have a screw loose. So I don't give a flying FUCK whether that PC is happy or not. It sounds like someone who will never BE happy. I've known Diana for years as have a number of critics. She's done a lot to help the critic's scene over the years- I'd best let her post about any of that, if she chooses. But her info and everything she does has always been reliable. She has the proven track record, the pc does not. I doubt there's an experienced auditor or ANY therapist or counsellor...or...orr...anywhere in the world who doesn't have at least one unsatisfied customer.

Diana bent over backwards to appease this nutball over in England. Then she bent over backwards to appease Terril. Then she got black prd.

So fuck the fucking FZ Survivor's List and fuck everyone who gives credence to it. No offense, Paul. I think you're awesome and I also think the people here on ESMB are awesome...ALL of them. But yeah, fuck that fucking list.

Thank you Claire, it is true that I have helped critics as well as scientologists. My house has been a haven for people who left the SO and had no other place to go, I also throw parties as often as I can because we need the fun and I have promoted almost all of the FZ auditors whenever I could. I don't want to say I am the saint or the best, but I truly believe in helping others even if sometimes I get hurt by doing so. But there are people like T ...well, those unmentionables that really take me to the limit sometimes.

Diana

 

[dianaclass8]

It reminds me of something that happened to me when I was in Collections. Now, I had a reputation for appeasing customers, not for being mean to them. I did NOT have a track record for getting complained about, unlike some of my coworkers. So I talked to this borrower, a raving bitch. She got mad and hung up on me. I decided not to call her back so as not to make things worse. She called my supervisor then claimed that I hung up on HER. The supervisor said "I have to go by what SHE says." Never listened to me. And what borrower had said was a lie and if the supv would have asked me, she'd have found out the scoop.

So sometimes someone in charge listens only to one side. You know, there's a REASON CofS has that "sorry up statistic" thingie. Not that they adhere to it consistently. We all know that Keystone Kult is Keystone Kult. BUT that policy, as written, is there for a reason. If you have someone with a good track record it's an indication as to whether or not a later allegation may be true.

So who has which track record? A pc who had one auditor in the FZ, probably , and left someone stranded, or a long time auditor who has also done much to help critics on matters unrelated to the FZ? And of course people would want to check out what's being said, I get that, but even so, you get BOTH sides. NOT ONE.

Also you went and got the ethics repair or whatever the fuck it was that BB asked you to get and it's still somehow a fucking problem??

Jesus God.

Yes, Jesus God!! LOL!!!
Diana

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Sure he can, but I've serious objections to the 'Success (exploitation) Stories' of Scientology - not so much from fear that will suck more people in, because most people would just think they are completely bonkers, but because it is exploitative to solicit/extract them.

I'm not a fan of the Success stories all that much, either. I don't think they should be solicited by anyone. I think it's ok if someone wants to write one, but that should be his or her own decision.

I think that Terril may have a different view about them. But be that as it may, he does do a lot of good in and to the critic's community and has helped many people. Not just into the FZ, he's helped people in all kinds of situations wrt the cult. For me that outweighs everything else.

There's a reason why I'm friends with him.

 

[dianaclass8]

I'm not a fan of the Success stories all that much, either. I don't think they should be solicited by anyone. I think it's ok if someone wants to write one, but that should be his or her own decision.

I think that Terril may have a different view about them. But be that as it may, he does do a lot of good in and to the critic's community and has helped many people. Not just into the FZ, he's helped people in all kinds of situations wrt the cult. For me that outweighs everything else.

There's a reason why I'm friends with him.

Claire, I agree with you, I am not a fan for the most part of the success stories either, but it is true that they helped other people leave the Church.

A lot of scientologists are afraid to leave simply because they think there is nothing else out there. Reading those helps them get the courage to walk out, but by being posted in ESMB also give them other perspectives from the critics about the whole scene.

Diana

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Yep. And Emma didn't say not to post any. She just deleted that sub section of the board. If a person wanted to post some or discuss the FZ in other ways, they still could.

Props to all the admins and mods of this board, past and present and hugs to Ems.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Thank you Claire, it is true that I have helped critics as well as scientologists. My house has been a haven for people who left the SO and had no other place to go, I also throw parties as often as I can because we need the fun and I have promoted almost all of the FZ auditors whenever I could. I don't want to say I am the saint or the best, but I truly believe in helping others even if sometimes I get hurt by doing so. But there are people like T ...well, those unmentionables that really take me to the limit sometimes.

Diana

You, my dear, are golden.

You have been a thorn in the side of the OSA. You have been a huge friend to people looking to leave the church. You have done that without consideration of whether they wish to continue service in the freezone. You have been a support to families in crisis as a result of suppression by the church. You have been a selfless worker for the benefit of the freezone, ex-scientologists, critics, and those of our friends who now promote other technologies.

You, as we all, are human. But you really go out of your way to help others. I admire you greatly for that.

LOVE YOU TO PIECES!


Mark A. Baker