NBC interview: Marty Rathbun & cult harassment.. YT vids being taken down..

[degraded being]

The pattern of criminal behavior by upper management is well documented. Specific crimes would need to be addressed. I don't know how many ways I can say I will forgive him. If you know what it will take, here it is: Marty in the witness chair with Miscavidge at the defense table.

If you know how the RICO statutes work, you know that in a corrupt organization, one can go to prison just for association. He would need a grant of immunity for his testimony which I would happily accede to. A prosecutor would have to understand that scn is a rackett and corrupt. These are the "R" and "C" in RICO.

There may be lesser things he could do to satisfy my sense of justice. The above is just one possibility.

And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did, aren't you being judgemental and self-righteous, as I was accused of? Just askin.

If you post on ESMB about Marty you will get people going on and on about "forgiveness" and such as if we are all in a religious camp. I have nothing against people forgiving Marty. However, I get to thinking everyone is Marty's guardian angel making judgments about how much goodness is in his tank and the rate at which it is increasing. I hope they will release him and let him be a person again.

 

[Gib]

I'm new here and didn't realize the Marty love was so strong in some. I just don't see that I said anything untrue. He likely committed crimes that are punishable by imprisonment if convicted. He did the same and worse to others as is being done to him. That is known colloquially as chickens coming home to roost, or the shoe's on the other foot or other cliches. He made his bed. He is trying to make amends and is doing a great job of it. He has a ways to go before I forgive him myself. What the hell is so unreasonable about that?

who loves Marty here? LOL Never met the guy.

He likely committed crimes? You got proof?

 

[Moderator 3]

OK, so I guess it's alright to criticize Marty, cite his earlier misdeeds, and ask him sensitive questions.

I still won't be doing so, in the current atmosphere, because I don't want to get into trouble (and IMO there are more important issues), but then, maybe, I'm overly cautious.

You're correct in your first sentence. Asking questions of him here does seem somewhat pointless though, he's not here. Try Marty's blog.
As regards the second sentence; yes, you're being overly cautious.

 

[JustSheila]

I'm new here and didn't realize the Marty love was so strong in some. I just don't see that I said anything untrue. He likely committed crimes that are punishable by imprisonment if convicted. He did the same and worse to others as is being done to him. That is known colloquially as chickens coming home to roost, or the shoe's on the other foot or other cliches. He made his bed. He is trying to make amends and is doing a great job of it. He has a ways to go before I forgive him myself. What the hell is so unreasonable about that?

See the RICO statutes. The pattern of corruption includes him. By virtue of his exalted position he would be guilty of all crimes committed by his subordinates. We know about the hole. Isn't that enough? Is he in no way culpable for false imprisonments? Again, in RICO he only needs to be a known leader of the rackett, which he was. If I were a federal prosecutor I would go after scn with RICO and give Marty immunity for testifying. How is my position unreasonable? Is all this bullshit just because I called Marty a motherfucker?

Ahhh, SP, it's just that, to some of us, the subject and these things have been sort of discussed to death. Without Marty's responses, the discussions never really go anywhere, anyway, and it's been discussed for years. In that time, Marty has changed a lot and done a lot. We can't control what he does or doesn't do or know his reasoning.

 

[SPsince83]

I like your post. I wasn't judging you. In regards to you specifically (as when I comment, I am normally commenting to all or else I would send a private message), I was mainly commenting on how you said that he belonged in jail. I was telling you why I don't think he does. I like your idea of his testifying against Miscavige and asking for immunity to do so.

If you think I was being self-righteous and judgmental, you're certainly entitled to think so.

Here you have, with emotional intelligence and discipline, further elucidated your point in a way that you were not doing before and I actually agree with you.

Sindy, you weren't the one causing the kerfuffle. It was lonestar who objected to me calling Marty a motherfucker and proceeded to call me names and told me fuck you. I'm sorry if you got splattered by the mess. I've been trying to get it calmed down since my first response to lonestar. I didn't mean to impugn you

 

[Veda]

You're correct in your first sentence. Asking questions of him here does seem somewhat pointless though, he's not here.

-snip-

I have no doubt he lurks here and has done so for years, or has another do so for him, and I have no doubt that he's benefitted from the information here, including some of the critical and satirical posts re. him and his views.

Rather than being offended - Scientology style - he learned, grew, and evolved.

 

[Lone Star]

I understand that Marty was brainwashed, too and that it's not all his fault, and I do have some empathy for him. However, *ahem*, Marty Rathbun was the second biggest criminal in scn. He has REAL crimes to answer for in the REAL world. He belongs in prison. He is likely guilty of assault and battery, kidnapping, false imprisonment and extortion and who knows what else.

The chickens have come home to roost, Marty. Now you know what you did to others. Suck on it, motherfucker.

Well I logged back in to check on a PM and to see if I need to reply. I decided to see where this thread has gone over the past hour or so.

To set the record straight....Veda....dahling....the Mods aren't trying to shut down criticism of Marty. Of course only melodramatic you would allege this.

Also for the record I highlighted above what set me off about the personal attack on Marty. I thought it was unnecessary to say the least. If SP83 has any real balls he'll go on Marty's blog and call him a "motherfucker" there. He can also call him out for his past offenses. Of course Marty already knows his past offenses and will agree that they were heinous.

I myself am not trying to stop anyone from expressing negative feelings about Marty's past bad deeds, as I highlighted in my own earlier post which is below. The personal insult and attack on him is way out of line. It pissed me off and I handled it in my usual manner. Which usually gets me in trouble.

I understand. I know I'm skating on thin ice. I also understand and even empathize with those who still have hard feelings towards Marty Rathbun. But when he his called a "motherfucker" when he's not even here to respond....well it ticks me off. Engage what Marty did while still in without the personal insults...fine.

I think Marty is at least trying to help undo what he did. Which is more than what most of us here are doing. Hammering away on a message board. Yeah...that's real effort.

SP83 can just not watch the upcoming HBO film then. After all, Marty and Mike both are featured in it. They were both "evil" back in the day. So don't watch it. If you do, then you're a hypocrite. SP83 is....not Mod3.

I'll give myself a vacation from ESMB to save you and the other Mod the trouble.

It seems that now the HBO film is out and is getting closer to being shown widely on HBO, the Marty personal attackers are increasing. They attack him and personally insult him even though they don't know him, and he's not here to respond. I expect more newbies like SP83 to come in and do even more. So I think I will take a vacation so to keep myself from "flaming" them. Plus, I'm just sick of this shit and need a break.

Like I said...go on Marty's blog and address him there SP83. But you won't.

TTFN.

 

[SPsince83]

who loves Marty here? LOL Never met the guy.

He likely committed crimes? You got proof?

Asked and answered Gib . See RICO. I have said upthread I have no specific knowledge of crimes, except as exes have alleged them here and elsewhere. I have also given my conditions for complete forgiveness for Marty. Don't know what more I can do.


I just responded to Marty's tears on the video with derision. Lonestar told me fuck you. I tried to reason with him and now all this flap. For all I know Marty's tears were for his realization of what he did to others. Call it schadenfreude on my part if you will and maybe you'd be right. But consider if it was Davey in that video. Would people be so ready to forgive?

I'm also willing to concede that my use of the word motherfucker in that context could be seen as trollish and for all who perceived it that way, mea culpa and apologies.

 

[Moderator 3]

I have no doubt he lurks here and has done so for years, or has another do so for him, and I have no doubt that he's benefitted from the information here, including some of the critical and satirical posts re. him and his views.

Rather than being offended - Scientology style - he learned, grew, and evolved.

I doubt that he has either the time or the inclination. He seems to be rather busy with all that taking down scientology stuff. Still, if anyone on ESMB wants to claim kudos for Marty's obvious change of mind, who am I to question it? Celebrate it I say!

 

[SPsince83]

Well I logged back in to check on a PM and to see if I need to reply. I decided to see where this thread has gone over the past hour or so.

To set the record straight....Veda....dahling....the Mods aren't trying to shut down criticism of Marty. Of course only melodramatic you would allege this.

Also for the record I highlighted above what set me off about the personal attack on Marty. I thought it was unnecessary to say the least. If SP83 has any real balls he'll go on Marty's blog and call him a "motherfucker" there. He can also call him out for his past offenses. Of course Marty already knows his past offenses and will agree that they were heinous.

I myself am not trying to stop anyone from expressing negative feelings about Marty's past bad deeds, as I highlighted in my own earlier post which is below. The personal insult and attack on him is way out of line. It pissed me off and I handled it in my usual manner. Which usually gets me in trouble.



It seems that now the HBO film is out and is getting closer to being shown widely on HBO, the Marty personal attackers are increasing. They attack him and personally insult him even though they don't know him, and he's not here to respond. I expect more newbies like SP83 to come in and do even more. So I think I will take a vacation so to keep myself from "flaming" them. Plus, I'm just sick of this shit and need a break. I'm tired of self-righteous chest beaters who are in reality cowards.

Like I said...go on Marty's blog and address him there. But you won't.

TTFN.

Wow. Try talking WITH me dude, not AT me. I may be new here but I've got a 40 year experience with scn executives. You say I don't know Marty which is true, but I have direct experience with cos fuckery. And Marty Rathbun ordered much of it. That he is sorry does not relieve his guilt. I prefaced it all with a statement of understanding and have tried to explain my position more clearly to you but you still are stuck on one sentence. Try again. I'm not a bad guy.

 

[SPsince83]

Ahhh, SP, it's just that, to some of us, the subject and these things have been sort of discussed to death. Without Marty's responses, the discussions never really go anywhere, anyway, and it's been discussed for years. In that time, Marty has changed a lot and done a lot. We can't control what he does or doesn't do or know his reasoning.

I get it, thanks

 

[ChurchOfCylontology]

Wow. Try talking WITH me dude, not AT me. I may be new here but I've got a 40 year experience with scn executives. You say I don't know Marty which is true, but I have direct experience with cos fuckery. And Marty Rathbun ordered much of it. That he is sorry does not relieve his guilt. I prefaced it all with a statement of understanding and have tried to explain my position more clearly to you but you still are stuck on one sentence. Try again. I'm not a bad guy.

Anyone that uses the word "fuckery" in relation to Scientology gets points from me.

Sheila is right....we've hashed this one for years now but it is still a worthy discussion. IMO, I'm slowly warming to his burgeoning humanity but he has ways to go. Why he still cherry picks the victims he helps is one sign that he's still hanging on to the raging ego. Once I read publicly that he's tried to help Gerry Armstrong without strings attached, then I'll start changing my opinion.

 

[JustSheila]

Info for the Newbs:

I'm going to summarize this from memory, so if i make any mistakes, can some of the other long-term ESMBers correct me?

There have been previous serious efforts to report things via the FBI and RICO. I cannot state if Marty was or was not personally involved in this, but the efforts were serious and I suspect (but do not know as a fact) that Marty may have tried this direction. To date, those efforts have had no impact.

There was a petition to the US President to look into Scientology at a time such petitions were promoted and claimed would be seriously addressed. The Indies (Marty's group) were primarily behind this. I do not know if Marty was personally involved with it, though. Again, no impact.

IF Marty has ever had any quiet involvement with government agencies, it would not be posted on this or any other forum. If Marty or Mike have provided information to other sources, it would not be posted on this or any other forum.

So we do not know, and will not know, how much effort Marty has made in those directions, or if he made any. But there were strong efforts made by others that may or may not have involved him.

We do know the efforts he made against Scn by media and assisting people to get out, by his blog, by coordinating those out and giving them support, helping them to speak out and making it safe for them to do so. Because those efforts are public. Any other efforts would not be, if they occurred at all.

So IMHO, it's time-wasting to discuss what Marty can or can't do behind the scenes or if he did or did not do it on a forum.

 

[TG1]

Amusing thread.

And no, Marty doesn't lurk on ESMB.

"Going Clear" airs Sunday night at 8:00 pm Eastern time on HBO.

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear#/

 

[Veda]

I doubt that he has either the time or the inclination.

It doesn't take much time, and I think he mostly reads certain posters. IMO, there has been a healthy cross pollination.

He seems to be rather busy with all that taking down scientology stuff.

Individuals have been taking down Scientology for over thirty years. It's an ongoing process.

Still, if anyone on ESMB wants to claim kudos for Marty's obvious change of mind, who am I to question it? Celebrate it I say!

Marty is responsible for his change of mind, and having a natural sense of curiosity and tolerance for others' views is part of that change of mind.

Yes, celebration is good.

 

[Gib]

Amusing thread.

And no, Marty doesn't lurk on ESMB.

"Going Clear" airs Sunday night at 8:00 pm Eastern time on HBO.

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear#/

and why do you say that?

 

[TG1]

and why do you say that?

Because I know.

 

[degraded being]

Info for the Newbs:

I'm going to summarize this from memory, so if i make any mistakes, can some of the other long-term ESMBers correct me?

There have been previous serious efforts to report things via the FBI and RICO. I cannot state if Marty was or was not personally involved in this, but the efforts were serious and I suspect (but do not know as a fact) that Marty may have tried this direction. To date, those efforts have had no impact.

There was a petition to the US President to look into Scientology at a time such petitions were promoted and claimed would be seriously addressed. The Indies (Marty's group) were primarily behind this. I do not know if Marty was personally involved with it, though. Again, no impact.

IF Marty has ever had any quiet involvement with government agencies, it would not be posted on this or any other forum. If Marty or Mike have provided information to other sources, it would not be posted on this or any other forum.

So we do not know, and will not know, how much effort Marty has made in those directions, or if he made any. But there were strong efforts made by others that may or may not have involved him.

We do know the efforts he made against Scn by media and assisting people to get out, by his blog, by coordinating those out and giving them support, helping them to speak out and making it safe for them to do so. Because those efforts are public. Any other efforts would not be, if they occurred at all.

So IMHO, it's time-wasting to discuss what Marty can or can't do behind the scenes or if he did or did not do it on a forum.

I saw Marty doing something "In front of the scenes" in a video this morning. He was talking about ordering the wiretapping of Kidman. I am sure I had already read of it before and even heard Marty talking about it in an interview ( I think).
He went onto violence in the Hole. The thing is that in this vid, this morning it was so stark, so right there in you face. I always hoped he would do something like that, but thought it might never happen. So what is wrong with discussing what Marty could talk about? There may be more he could talk about in interviews or to some official? These things are not all squared away equally in everyone's minds. Newer posters can't be expected to be on the same page - even the older ones aren't. So it seems that your idea about it being time wasting - and that we have all thrashed it out, is like telling newbies -and older ones for that matter, that their topics are not on the menu here.

 

[JustSheila]

So it seems that your idea about it being time wasting - and that we have all thrashed it out, is like telling newbies -and older ones for that matter, that their topics are not on the menu here.

DB, how's the coffee this morning?

I said what he can or cannot do BEHIND THE SCENES. Reread please.

Actually, I couldn't agree more with what you said.

Something on my post was misunderstood or taken wrong, though - so maybe it's time to log off. It has been a weird time on ESMB this morning.

 

[SPsince83]

Info for the Newbs:

I'm going to summarize this from memory, so if i make any mistakes, can some of the other long-term ESMBers correct me?

There have been previous serious efforts to report things via the FBI and RICO. I cannot state if Marty was or was not personally involved in this, but the efforts were serious and I suspect (but do not know as a fact) that Marty may have tried this direction. To date, those efforts have had no impact.

There was a petition to the US President to look into Scientology at a time such petitions were promoted and claimed would be seriously addressed. The Indies (Marty's group) were primarily behind this. I do not know if Marty was personally involved with it, though. Again, no impact.

IF Marty has ever had any quiet involvement with government agencies, it would not be posted on this or any other forum. If Marty or Mike have provided information to other sources, it would not be posted on this or any other forum.

So we do not know, and will not know, how much effort Marty has made in those directions, or if he made any. But there were strong efforts made by others that may or may not have involved him.

We do know the efforts he made against Scn by media and assisting people to get out, by his blog, by coordinating those out and giving them support, helping them to speak out and making it safe for them to do so. Because those efforts are public. Any other efforts would not be, if they occurred at all.

So IMHO, it's time-wasting to discuss what Marty can or can't do behind the scenes or if he did or did not do it on a forum.

I started out saying I understood and had compassion for him. Then I expressed my schadenfreude over his tears in my loveably obscene manner. Lonestar objected and still refuses to communicate with me directly despite polite efforts on my part to do so. I may be new here as a poster but I am not ignorant of much of what has gone on over the years. I've been to Clambake and xenutv for years. Ditto Lermanet and others. Dude just flamed me cuz he reacted. He refused my attempts at peacemaking. Don't know what else I could have done.