St. Petersburg Times: Rinder, Rathbun, and more speak out

[Ted]

From Part 2. My emphasis in red.

QUOTE
William C. Walsh, a Washington, D.C., human rights lawyer who has represented Scientology for years, said the account is far-fetched.

“One thing I do know is Dave Miscavige, and I’ve known him from December 1999 on and way before that,” Walsh said. “And I never saw any change in his personality when he became a defendant in the case. He didn’t become more antagonistic. He did not become more violent. And he’s never been irrational.”
END QUOTE

In other words, he continued to be as antagonsitic and violent as he had been before.

Paul

Good catch, Paul!

 

[Recovering Scientologist]

I had a personal computer when I was in the Sea Org and I had to sign an agreement to give the hard drive to security if I ever left. When I did leave they took the hard drive.

You had to get special permission to have a personal cell phone and that was before most phones had cameras/video or internet. So I'm sure they have updated things to restrict it even more now.

I was never at Gold. But I can imagine how much trouble you would be in if someone saw you with a camera or a video camera walking around. Let alone the fact that while you are there, you believe in the cause and it's not until after that you start to even doubt Scientology and it can take years to unravel the mind f@*k before you realize that it's harmful and something needs to be done about it.

 

[Merman]

“There was a lot of fumbling around to get the chairs into a giant circle. Dave had the Cine Sec Gold (Federico Tisi) bring up a video camera so they whole thing could be videoed. This was going to be a major production! “

There has been much precedent for the church's liberal attitude towards destroying evidence. I'd bet the bank that COB ordered all that video destroyed, probably along with every other incident ever mentioned by BTF or bts2free on OCMB, as soon as it circulated (unfortunately).

Simple logic and observation of the sober testimonial of what now amounts to a dozen or 2 of top, TOP sea org members telling similar stories VS. the church's endless LUV for PR ad hominem attacks (no matter how petty and dumb), the truth is quite obvious they're covering shit up to anyone with half a brain.

I still think it's just soooo FUNNY all the things Tommy Davis actually said in his interview with the reporter:

"Am I mad at you? Not necessarily"
"he's a fucking lunatic!"
"next time you see him. Tell him TOMMY DAVIS said he's a lunatic!"
"HE is the lunatic! the whole track prison warden! the reign of terror!"

my analysis:

Tommy had not slept in 3 days and had been "drilling" certain key phrases like "lunatic" and "reign of terror" and "son of a bitch", on the direct orders of DM. NOWHERE in PR handling references does LRH recommend to yell profanities in a rebuttal interview, rather LRH says to show documents of the enemy's "crimes".

Sinking to the level of "bar fight rhetoric" combined with what can only be a mistakenly slip-up in the form of an "internal rhetoric" (whole track prison warden) in my opinion, this can only be caused by a lack of sleep and a HUGE amount of yelling and screaming by DM himself and his juniors directed at Tommy.

Tommy has NEVER cursed during an interview before. He has never misspoken so badly before. The closest he came was in his interview with the BBC dude, where he just yelled (no cursing or scio-speak slip up).

I think this is a very important observation to note. And to put it in an LRH-ish way: "The level at which the PR terminal violates the basic PR policies for handling Black PR (such as by cursing, mentioning out-reality ideas like 'whole track' and calling someone a criminal with no evidence) is a direct INDEX to how much the terminals BEHIND the PR terminal are getting 'restimulated' or 'goofing the floof'."

 

[Alanzo]

There has been much precedent for the church's liberal attitude towards destroying evidence. I'd bet the bank that COB ordered all that video destroyed, probably along with every other incident ever mentioned by BTF or bts2free on OCMB, as soon as it circulated (unfortunately).

Simple logic and observation of the sober testimonial of what now amounts to a dozen or 2 of top, TOP sea org members telling similar stories VS. the church's endless LUV for PR ad hominem attacks (no matter how petty and dumb), the truth is quite obvious they're covering shit up to anyone with half a brain.

I still think it's just soooo FUNNY all the things Tommy Davis actually said in his interview with the reporter:

"Am I mad at you? Not necessarily"
"he's a fucking lunatic!"
"next time you see him. Tell him TOMMY DAVIS said he's a lunatic!"
"HE is the lunatic! the whole track prison warden! the reign of terror!"

my analysis:

Tommy had not slept in 3 days and had been "drilling" certain key phrases like "lunatic" and "reign of terror" and "son of a bitch", on the direct orders of DM. NOWHERE in PR handling references does LRH recommend to yell profanities in a rebuttal interview, rather LRH says to show documents of the enemy's "crimes".

Sinking to the level of "bar fight rhetoric" combined with what can only be a mistakenly slip-up in the form of an "internal rhetoric" (whole track prison warden) in my opinion, this can only be caused by a lack of sleep and a HUGE amount of yelling and screaming by DM himself and his juniors directed at Tommy.

Tommy has NEVER cursed during an interview before. He has never misspoken so badly before. The closest he came was in his interview with the BBC dude, where he just yelled (no cursing or scio-speak slip up).

I think this is a very important observation to note. And to put it in an LRH-ish way: "The level at which the PR terminal violates the basic PR policies for handling Black PR (such as by cursing, mentioning out-reality ideas like 'whole track' and calling someone a criminal with no evidence) is a direct INDEX to how much the terminals BEHIND the PR terminal are getting 'restimulated' or 'goofing the floof'."

My God.

OF COURSE!

They're goofing the floof!!!

That's it! I'm going to need a spatula, some chicken wire, and a large can of lima beans. STAT!!

 

[Alanzo]

Tommy Davis, most definitely, goofed the floof.

He goofed the floof so hard it did a 180 on his ass, came right back around, and floofed the goof.

That is how bad they are goofing the floof right now.

 

[Recovering Scientologist]

Worldwide response:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012324.ece

 

[uncle sam]

WOW

Tommy Davis, most definitely, goofed the floof.

He goofed the floof so hard it did a 180 on his ass, came right back around, and floofed the goof.

That is how bad they are goofing the floof right now.

I love this "Goofing the Floof"----yessir-lrh- they are goofing the floof! Enough said.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

I love this "Goofing the Floof"----yessir-lrh- they are goofing the floof! Enough said.

http://whatxenudoes.ytmnd.com/

 

[CornPie]

In response to your post #299...

CornPie, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you genuinely mean what you have said here.

You are the 5th person who has ignored the fact that this concept is also intended for "Org OR Sea Org". And yes, I absolutely mean it. I want to watch video of scientology abuses.

Firstly, for the vast majority of Sea Org members, $125 is a really big deal. Most struggle to afford the basics in life, let alone luxuries that of that nature.

Personally I'd give them the camera, the SD-Rams, and the education on how to pull use them -- if I was convinced they were going to take video of scientology events that shed light on scn abuses. But I'd never give them any money.

...If you are in the Sea Org, you wouldn’t even think about doing this...

What about all the people that blew? Are you so sure none of them ever wanted to get even with scientology for their abuses too? How can you claim to know that there was no desire to get even in the minds of so many people? To expose the evils of scientology.

...you would have to pass numerous security checks...

Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'd relish watching pictures of (beatings, pole running, peanut pushing, reg'ing, head-screwing, threats by ethics officers, anything factual but incriminating to scientology).

So, this is very unlikely. The only chance is if someone infiltrated the base from the outside, which given the security measures, would be virtually impossible

Unlikely, as you say, does not mean impossible.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

CornPie, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you genuinely mean what you have said here.

You are the 5th person who has ignored the fact that this concept is also intended for "Org OR Sea Org". And yes, I absolutely mean it. I want to watch video of scientology abuses.

Firstly, for the vast majority of Sea Org members, $125 is a really big deal. Most struggle to afford the basics in life, let alone luxuries that of that nature.

Personally I'd give them the camera, the SD-Rams, and the education on how to pull use them -- if I was convinced they were going to take video of scientology events that shed light on scn abuses. But I'd never give them any money.

...If you are in the Sea Org, you wouldn’t even think about doing this...

What about all the people that blew? Are you so sure none of them ever wanted to get even with scientology for their abuses too? How can you claim to know that there was no desire to get even in the minds of so many people?

...you would have to pass numerous security checks...

Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'd relish watching pictures of (beatings, pole running, peanut pushing, reg'ing, head-screwing, threats by ethics officers, anything factual but incriminating to scientology).

So, this is very unlikely. The only chance is if someone infiltrated the base from the outside, which given the security measures, would be virtually impossible

Unlikely, as you say, does not mean impossible.

It's far from impossible, but Sea Orgers are more concerned with how are they going to make it though the day without causing a situation that results in punishment or how they are going to scrape up enough money for their next cigarette as opposed to creating a video to entertain message board posters. It's the same reason why so little video comes out of North Korea.

 

[Recovering Scientologist]

Personally I'd give them the camera, the SD-Rams, and the education on how to pull use them -- if I was convinced they were going to take video of scientology events that shed light on scn abuses. But I'd never give them any money.

I'm not sure you even read what other people who were in the Sea Org write. See below and what other people have written.

I was never at Gold. But I can imagine how much trouble you would be in if someone saw you with a camera or a video camera walking around. Let alone the fact that while you are there, you believe in the cause and it's not until after that you start to even doubt Scientology and it can take years to unravel the mind f@*k before you realize that it's harmful and something needs to be done about it.

Even while I was leaving the Sea Org had you approached me I would have turned you in to security without reservation. While I can't say I speak for everybody, I believe this is what 99.9% of Sea Org members would do.

Now that doesn't mean it wouldn't be awesome for someone to do it. But it would basically be a miracle. Because you would have to:
1. Realize that Scientology and/or the Sea Org are wrong without talking to anyone or looking up any information on the internet. Realizing the truth took a lot of us years and we looked up and corroborated a lot of things we had doubts about on the internet and also read post or talked to people we knew in the Sea Org/Scientology who left.
2. Get a camera. Hard to do because of money, time, etc. And no, we don't talk to the magical man on the street who is giving out video cameras and counter-intelligence information.
3. Set up the camera in an important location. Again, hard because you are on a strict schedule and are usually with people.
4. Film whatever without being caught.
5. Blow without anyone suspecting a thing. You couldn't route out because people would likely go through your personal belongings. For some people blowing also isn't an easy option because it means you will be declared and won't be able to see/talk to friends and family.
6. There is an inverse ratio to the possibility of pulling this off as compared to the higher up you are. I.e. the higher up you are the information/video obtained would be more revealing while also getting exponentially harder to get.

So it's very easy to say you would just "give someone a camera, etc, etc." It just would never happen. If you don't believe me, give it a shot. Try and give a Sea Org member a video camera and tell them to record criminal activity for you. You won't even reach a regular Sea Org member. All you will do is end up talking to a security guard and if you persist enough you might get a restraining order. Good luck!

 

[uniquemand]

What would really be interesting is to take someone like AnonOrange, who doubts the efficacy of the meter or the reality of "the session", and have them go in undercover to a Class V org, and wait until somone asks if they are Sea Org qualled, lie to cover anything that's out of place, and then enter the Sea Org. Try bringing your camera. Try passing the sec checks that happen when you join staff.

There's a reason this has never been done.

 

[Kha Khan]

What would really be interesting is to take someone like AnonOrange, who doubts the efficacy of the meter or the reality of "the session", and have them go in undercover to a Class V org, and wait until somone asks if they are Sea Org qualled, lie to cover anything that's out of place, and then enter the Sea Org. Try bringing your camera. Try passing the sec checks that happen when you join staff.

There's a reason this has never been done.

In my experience, if the E-meter is good for anything, it is good for sec checks. No, it is great for sec checks.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

What would really be interesting is to take someone like AnonOrange, who doubts the efficacy of the meter or the reality of "the session", and have them go in undercover to a Class V org, and wait until somone asks if they are Sea Org qualled, lie to cover anything that's out of place, and then enter the Sea Org. Try bringing your camera. Try passing the sec checks that happen when you join staff.

There's a reason this has never been done.

Yep, infiltrating an organized crime gang in real life, never quite works out like it does in the movies

 

[I told you I was trouble]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Well!

I go away for a few days and THIS is what I return to!!



I just listened to Tommy's rant ... LOL ... he is an unpleasant little prick ... I think he may need to get his TRs in.



They are going to need all that real estate $$$ .... for all the legal bills as people become more and more willing to stand up in courts across the world and scream 'ENOUGH' at the silly little creatures that are 'running' the joint.

 

[BlackCatTango]

Corn Pie,

Have you ever worked long, long hours in the day (say 12-16), for days on end (like maybe 6-8 weeks at a time till you get a day off) with very little sleep and very little food (meaning rice & beans with very little variation--no good protein, no fresh fruit or even an occasional dessert)? And add to that no contact with your family or good friends. And when you have time off, all you want to do is take a shower and sleep.

The last thing you'd really be interested in is videotaping someone else who is committing human rights abuses?

If you aren't going to read the accounts of Sea Org life posted here then I recommend that you really need to watch more WWII prison camp shows/movies or read more Solzhenitzyn accounts of the Soviet Gulags, or some such accounts of physical deprivation coupled with social isolation.....

Or get three jobs and then live on only $10-20 a week. You'll see how far that doesn't go when you have to buy basics.

Consider yourself lucky that you haven't even had to live life at the poverty level.

 

[Free to shine]

BFG just posted this on the Why We Protest mega thread: (heeheehee)

Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out
To quote BBC's John Sweeney, "TOMMY - YOU WERE NOT THERE!!!!!"

Tommy was not there during any of the musical chairs incident and neither was what's her tits.

Hey David Miscavige, are you sure no one copied the video tape you had made of the musical chairs incident. Fed Tisi shot it on MiniDV with a Canon XL-1 but where did the tape go afterward? I would get onto that right away if I were you. Maybe dust that tape for prints. I think you might have a bigger problem on your hands.


Maybe you could show the tape to Tommy Davis and show him how "educational" all those people crying were. Or maybe how Mike Sutter and Mark Ingber fighting over and destroying that chair was a good "lesson learned." I am sure Jessica Feshbach will see the morality in making all those couples think they were never going to see their spouses again for the rest of their lives.

Also, before I forget, do you still have that money you owe me? I would like to get it before you get jailed or leave the country. Just drop me a line. I accept Paypal, Visa, or Mastercard or USD. You know where to find me.

Until next time...
BFG

 

[Panda Termint]

^^^ I love this ^^^

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

What would really be interesting is to take someone like AnonOrange, who doubts the efficacy of the meter or the reality of "the session", and have them go in undercover to a Class V org, and wait until somone asks if they are Sea Org qualled, lie to cover anything that's out of place, and then enter the Sea Org. Try bringing your camera. Try passing the sec checks that happen when you join staff.

There's a reason this has never been done.

How ridiculous. I've fooled the E-meter a ton of times.
The reason no one has done it is the people that might do it don't have a fucking clue what Scientology is about. It takes years to find out. Then you'd have to get used to fooling the meter.
Someone who doesn't know how it works doesn't have much chance. That doesn't mean it's accurate. They just don't know how to fool it.
And btw, all you get is a meter check when you join the Sea Org. Not a sec check.

 

[FlunkedForLaughing]

I like to read BFG's posts.

I'm late to post my comments, but I just have to say this is such wonderfully bad news for the cult. Right on time like my psychic friend predicted. I'm so happy about it. The dwindling spiral continues.

FFL