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David Miscavige's abuses and violence

Gadfly

Crusader
Miscavige is probably the most On-Source Scientologist there is, as he's seen all of Hubbard's instructions, including all his confidential instructions, on the matter of just how his mental-healing-coated, secretive personality cult/monument-to-himself blackmail-collecting, slave-labor-utilizing, people-machine should be run and maintained.

No doubt, someone else could do a more efficient job of it, and perhaps the mental-healing coating could be reinvigorated and widened, perhaps even coming up with some upper upper OT levels, OT 9, OT 10, OT 11, OT 12, etc. That would excite the faithful.

Yes. That. ^^^^^^ :thumbsup:

Miscavige is carrying forth Hubbard's vision better than ANY OTHERS!

Miscavige very much takes to heart the edict, "do what Ron would do". And he does. With dedication. With severity. With an unreasonable attitude. With a Tone 40 attitude and conviction. With a "live or die in the attempt" KSW approach. With his job being a "deadly serious activity". Miscavige either believes all of that nonsense, or he pretends to believe all of that nonsense. In either case, the result is the same bullshit.

I have no doubt that if Hubbard had stayed alive, and in control of the Church, that he would have done everything just as has Miscavige. Maybe worse. Hubbard is like how mythical "Satan" is portrayed - as the "father of deception". Hubbard would have continued and expanded all the previous deceptions, scams, and ploys to "take over planet Earth with Scientology". As I see it, people who think that Miscavige is an "alteration" and a "betrayal of Hubbard" simply are too uninformed and ignorant about who and what Hubbard actually was.
 
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guanoloco

As-Wased
The US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) R-1 Visa Specifics · I-360, Special Immigrant Religious Workers outlines the criteria whereby religious workers can enter the US. Nowhere is Scientology Sea Org forced marriage or forced sexual intercourse contemplated in US law.

However, David Miscavige would need to demand that his slave laborers engaged in sham marriages have sexual intercourse as sexual intimacy is one criterion the INS uses to determine if a sham marriage has been conducted in order to obtain a green card.

Sham marriages conducted to get a green card are a crime in the US. However, as the law apparently does not apply to David Miscavige and Scientology, sham marriages are just another convenient fraudulent arrangement in a never ending series of convenient fraudulent arrangements that collectively constitute the Cult of Scientology.

An interesting excerpt on how the US INS checks carefully for sham marriages:


ref: http://www.gringoes.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4553&PN=4

/////

I read somewhere that the criminal will exploit loopholes in the law to violate the intent of the law while maintaining the letter of the law.

Most noteworthy is the sordid way Hubbard recommends to violate the legal system by piling on lawsuits in order to harass and wear down the "enemy".

This is Scientology through and through with a total disregard for ethics, jurisprudence, human rights, the family unit or anything foundational to society at all.
 

Anony-Moose

Patron
I'm not saying he isn't culpable. I'm just saying the abuse is like most abuse. The abuser is usually a former victim. I am not joking when I say he really should be evaluated by psychiatric experts and treated for the pathology he has.

That and of course I was trying to make sure the "Hubbard was a madman" message didn't get lost in the DM abuses story. Whether it's prosecutable or not it IS part of the story. Leaving the insanity of his childhood out of the story is leaving an awful lot off the table. IMO

btw Nice to see you Nony. Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Thank you and same to you! :wink2:

I agree it's part of the story. I just don't worry about that part of the story getting "lost" here, with all the knowledgeable people and vigilant minders on board.

I personally would not be happy if Dave Miscavige got off on an insanity plea, were he ever to go to trial for his crimes. Maybe Adolf Eichmann's parents were Nazi anti-Semites too and Hitler mesmerized the young Adolf. I don't care, when it comes to finding one accountable. Whether or not a perpetrator shows remorse is important to Judges and Juries when it comes to sentencing. Claiming one was ordered to do it or brainwashed or whatever is zero points in the remorse department.

I guess it is also therapeutic for some to repeat "yeah, but Dave is a monster because...".

But when a psychopathic person kills or abuses, and all the attention goes to the perpetrator and why and how he/she became that way, the victims can be upset by that too sometimes. Personally I think the victim's stories are senior to that. If the perpetrator's story and their reasons for abusing get "lost" in the victim's stories beyond "how much prison time did they receive", people still at least know there were these victims who were abused and the abuser obviously needs to be held accountable. Allowing the victims to be heard is what really calls attention to the problem.

Unfortunately in the world of Scientology criticism, there are different classes of victims. Like you can't be a real victim if you haven't had the right cognitions.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
LRH was a much better con-man. He learned how to rob a person while oozing so much syrupy 'goodness' that they loved him even as he drained away all their assets, and made them fear imagined enemies.

David Miscavige is not good at the con-man role, and can only use brute force while he tries to retain control over the lives that were actually dedicated to LRH. Virtually nobody loves David Miscavige: he's no L Ron Hubbard.

LRH scammed some people in such a silky-smooth way that they still love him, thirty years later. It really was one of the 20th century's most audacious cons - and some of his victims are still re-writing history to protect his name.

Incredible how thoroughly Scientology can mess up one's judgment.

Great imagery - just like a spider!
 

Good twin

Floater
Thank you and same to you! :wink2:

I agree it's part of the story. I just don't worry about that part of the story getting "lost" here, with all the knowledgeable people and vigilant minders on board.

I personally would not be happy if Dave Miscavige got off on an insanity plea, were he ever to go to trial for his crimes. Maybe Adolf Eichmann's parents were Nazi anti-Semites too and Hitler mesmerized the young Adolf. I don't care, when it comes to finding one accountable. Whether or not a perpetrator shows remorse is important to Judges and Juries when it comes to sentencing. Claiming one was ordered to do it or brainwashed or whatever is zero points in the remorse department.

I guess it is also therapeutic for some to repeat "yeah, but Dave is a monster because...".

But when a psychopathic person kills or abuses, and all the attention goes to the perpetrator and why and how he/she became that way, the victims can be upset by that too sometimes. Personally I think the victim's stories are senior to that. If the perpetrator's story and their reasons for abusing get "lost" in the victim's stories beyond "how much prison time did they receive", people still at least know there were these victims who were abused and the abuser obviously needs to be held accountable. Allowing the victims to be heard is what really calls attention to the problem.

Unfortunately in the world of Scientology criticism, there are different classes of victims. Like you can't be a real victim if you haven't had the right cognitions.

Agreed and agreed. I just hate to see DM carted off for another monster to step in. I know you don't want that either.

I really hate thinking of myself as a Scientology victim. After all we are the survivors. The ones inside are the victims. But perhaps I haven't had the right cognition. I'm just glad to be free to make my own wrong choices now. :coolwink:
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you for this link. I'm sorry to hear that she's having a rough time.

I think she's doing such a great service exposing DM's crimes and wish her happiness, peace and success whatever she decides to do.

I just had a direct contact with Karen and have to tell you that she is doing totally fine. To say that she is "having a rough time" is simply wrong.

Love

Markus
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I'm not sure how Karen has come to believe that she had to abandon her postings of DaviD Miscavige's abuses and violence because she fell prey to an orchestrated litany of hate. To me, this seems an emotional response rather than a thought-through decision. I note that before Karen started posting here, she was being spoken fondly of by others and, now that she has left, there are good people here still speaking fondly of her.

While she was here I felt as if Karen was speaking at ESMB rather than with ESMB because there was scant dialogue between her and fellow posters. When she did join in, her comments showed a sharp mind with keen observations and a certain soft irony. The rest of the time it was post after post after post to get the spiders in. There are far, far better and quicker ways of attracting Google listing positions but, hey, Karen seemed on a mission to get these facts collated and statistics up on negative press. Or something. Now, collecting and presenting data can be a worthy task but, particularly on a message board, one has to be scrupulous with DOX and welcome questions seeking clarification or personal opinion or references and so on. Otherwise . . . "Ooops. Make a mistake, admit it, apologise and/or explain as required, move on. Avoid butthurt."

I hope that if Karen comes back, she comes back AS Karen. There's no need to "have something to do" or "produce" or be "someone" - just be yourself and be here because you want to participate in a message board environment. Learn from Veda.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Oh! So you didn't have me on "ignore" and you really have been avoiding the questions, as I suggested.

Thanks for proving my point that provocation eventually results in a response.

It took me several months and countless provocations to get you to answer a simple question.

There was no deliberate misrepresentation by me. But nice try shifting the "attack". LOL

And as far as your stated mission to handle over-restimulation in ESMB'ers, you badly misrepresented both the people here on ESMB and your own imagined powers.

Your position is ludicrous. You boldly claim that there are OSA operatives on ESMB enturbulating ("over-restimulating") the people on ESMB. But later (now) you claim you don't know who they are. Absurd.

I asked you many times WHO was over-restimulated and WHO you handled. You never answered those either.

Helpful Hint: Your mission has failed. Your tech didn't work (again). Try to figure out why.

Wasn't there something or other written one time about comm lag as an index to sanity or something? I thought I ran across a little tidbit mentioning that once...
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I just had a direct contact with Karen and have to tell you that she is doing totally fine. To say that she is "having a rough time" is simply wrong.

Love

Markus

It was Sneakster who upset her when he flashed her wearing a osa xmas sock.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It was Sneakster who upset her when he flashed her wearing a osa xmas sock.

The Sneakster's response to your accusation has been posted in the theta universe. Humbly channeled as a gift to ESMB by The Hoaxster.


Originally Posted by The Sneakster
SOX or STFU.



DISCLAIMER: I don't have any DOX proving that Sneakster put out that theta com, but I do have knowingness and a certificate on my wall.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I spoke to Karen today. I was a little concerned about the idea that Karen was feeling "beaten" or something.

I can tell you that is totally not the case.

Karen is a busy little lady. When she left the SO 10 years ago she had nothing but a free loader bill. Now she is one of the top (if not THE top) art dealers in the country. That doesn't happen by sitting on your ass.

Karen is a driven person. Her passion is to expose the abuses happening RIGHT NOW at Int base and elsewhere. She's not particularly interested in chit chatting about her beliefs, or having other people tell her what she should believe. She just wants to expose the abuses & get them stopped.

Using a message board is probably not the best avenue to do this as there will always be people wanting to challenge you or ask you questions etc. There is nothing wrong with this except that it's not really what Karen has time for or wants to get into. She said right up front that she wasn't here to clash swords with anyone or get into any long debates. It just didn't interest her & she doesn't have the time to get into it.

I believe Karen is looking at a better alternative to get her message across that doesn't involve ESMB or OCMB. I will help her in any way I can because I believe what she is doing is probably the most important thing that needs doing right now. Debating about belief in the Tech or auditing or anything else is secondary in importance to stopping the human rights abuses being committed by DM every day.

I've made it very clear to Karen that she has just as much right to post on ESMB as anyone else but she feels that message boards are just not the right venue and so she is just changing her direction, she is not stopping or slowing down the exposing of David Miscavige's crimes.

I hope Karen comes back to ESMB one day. I'll miss her. She is a gutsy & determined lady with a lot of class. David Miscavige has a lot to fear from her. If anyone can bring him to justice, Karen can.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks Emma. Good to have that clarity. I too hope Karen gets back to sharing her amazing revelations, and soon.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I would also like to see Karen back and posting her vast knowledge of the prosecutable crimes going on in Scientology now, under its current management.

Other discussions belong on other threads and sometimes even other websites where they originated. This thread is important enough that it should be kept on topic.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Bump

Lurkers should read this thread
Stories are true tragic stories
testified by the most dedicated former SO
It's happening each day
even though it has been
and is still hidden to the parishionners
especially public, within the CO$

To be aware of it
may make the difference
for your freedom and life
for the futur of your children
that COS wants in the Sea Org
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Worth adding to this thread:


Lana M. | January 21, 2012 at 10:04 pm |

Thanks Marty,
I feel that former Int base staff members have had the biggest leap to make on the subject of denial. We were card-carrying Miscavige devotees — and I remember clearly a point in time when I would havevirtually laid my life on the line for DM, in an effort to placate him, in an effort to propitiate and in an effort to be (what seemed to be) on the “right team”.

A brief overview of just some of the crazy things I did as an Int base staff member which I denied, along with many others, shows the level that this goes to. This is not in any particular order.

* I followed orders and photocopied Lyman Spurlock’s head on orders of COB to denigrate and belittle Lyman, a veteran Sea Org member (and corporate Board member of RTC).

* I wordcleared Sinar Parmen on KSW 1, Method 9, along with the rest of the Int base ordered to do the same, at 11.30pm at night after a full day of production and then tried to get him to FN at Exams.

* I went to the Int RPF and caused a major flap as the senior RTC terminal, because the Int RPF space had been made theta with gardens and paths and rock gardens, while at the Int base we were living a life of hell.

* I accepted ordered from the Internal Executive RTC and D/IG Internal Affairs in the mid 90s to divorce my husband of over 15 years based on a session KR which had found him “thinking” unsavoury thoughts about COB, and went so far as to tell him I wanted a divorce (at which point we both collapsed into tears).

* I left people who wanted to leave (such as Mo Bolstad) at OGH (the swamp) on physical hard labour for months as she wanted to leave and I had received orders that she was not allowed to route out and needed to “handle her”.

*I participated in the many, many study orders issued by COB to the entire Int base, which included random policies that we were to wordclear and kept everyone off post for days

* I followed orders to destructively musical chair whole divisions of Gold in an effort to get event properties produced in time (ordered by DM), resulting in massive backlogs in key areas of the org and staff in continual flux. I did this on all flows over a period years, despite having done an RTC investigation on 1995 that revealed that DM had musical chaired Int mamnagement for 5 years to a point where no one executive post had been held by one person for longer than a year (and many posts were like revolving doors and tenure was no longer than a few weeks — such as Establishment Exec Int (EEI)).

* I followed DM orders to “find the crimes” of ED Int (Guillaume) and CO CMO Int (Marc Yager) and Snr CS Int (RayMithoff) and shadowed them for weeks. I dug through their personl belongings, went through their phone records, their bank statements, their desk filing cabinets, their in-baskets, their computer mail, you name it — all to find the “crimes”– which I NEVER found. And then I watched as DM removed these executives, RPFed them, declared them SP, removed their rank, belittled them and J&Ded them, caved them in, and then put them into “The Hole”.

* I, along with many others, permitted DM to cross order the base schedule repeatedly and continually, so that whole sections of the Gold and Int base regularly got next to no sleep (sorry Mike Rinder — I really am sorry about that). I enforced that his orders were followed — despite seeing how off-policy, crazy and destructive it was.

* I personally cooked and serviced DM and his entourage (and guests) for several years, watching as over $1000 worth of food was purchased weekly for less than 10 people, while they dined on fillet mignon and organic vegetables, while the rest of the crew was on gruel, beans and rice.

SO many outpoints. Such denial. When you are in that world — when you are in DM’s universe — you do the most absurd, off-policy and crazy things. And confronting that (and that is far from a complete list), is not pleasant. It is — in my view — why the Sutter’s, Pouws, and many others (including my ex) have refused to look. Why they have attacked persons who do look and try to point out the craziness of the situation. It is crazy, but to admit is, means you have to accept responsibility for the part YOU have played in it.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/denialism/#comments
 
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