How's That Freedom Workin' for Ya? The Power of an "SP"

[HelluvaHoax!]

That PTS/SP crap got me to thinking. It's not good karma to commit overts on an SP. So why did Hubturd invent the fair game thing? Wouldn't one's fair game overts on an SP boomerang back eventually? Ya know, all that overt/motivator tech we learned? Maybe that's why Hubturd pulled in all those motivators.

It's quite confusing until you clay demo the HCOPL Hubbard Law of Commotion: "For each and every piece of tech or policy there is an equal and opposite piece of tech or policy."

PERPLEXED SCIENTOLOGIST
Hey Ron! Should I fair game
or not fair game the SP?

RON HUBBARD
That's a fair question.

PERPLEXED SCIENTOLOGIST
So? Will I motivate if I commit crimes
against an evil two-and-a-half-percenter?

RON HUBBARD
The perfect answer to the question
is the question itself.

PERPLEXED SCIENTOLOGIST
Wutttt?? Now I am really confused.
You didn't answer my question.

RON HUBBARD
Always answer people's questions.

PERPLEXED SCIENTOLOGIST
Wait, yes! Don't you agree with
your own policy?

RON HUBBARD
I rose above the compulsion to
agree with group bank.

PERPLEXED SCIENTOLOGIST
Okay, okay, okay, okay, I get it.
What's my tech estimate to fix
the case that is causing all
my mental confusion?​

 

[Cervantes]

...

And the all powerful *yawn* OT blew .....

I followed you up to here ... What does "blew" mean?
Did the OT spontaneously explode?
Did she just start screaming her head off ???
Or did she just run out on the street where she got tackled by a PT Cruiser ???

I'm not scientologist (have never been one, either) and find that it is sometimes difficult, almost impossible, to understand what simple words mean within the context of Scientology.

Thank you.

 

[Cervantes]

That's why I sometimes say that, in the end, when it all comes down to it, we each did it to ourselves. Because it was you and me who, for awhile there, bought into the paradigm and BELIEVED, thus allowing us to be pulled around by the nose like a pig on a rope. I know that I set myself up for everything that "happened to me" because and ONLY because I "believed" to some degree.

Gadfly,
I enjoy your posts quite a lot!
You often provide large quantities of information, artfully mixed with considerable servings of tasty opinions and juicy thoughts!!!

And here you bring up the main reason that makes me visit this forum (I've been reading for months)

I've been trying to figure out why people, more often than not, willingly give up their freedoms and abolish reason when joining Scientology?
The notion of "bridge to total freedom" implies that at this moment I'm not 'free' since I haven't even seen that bridge. If I were to accept that the bridge exists then I must also consider that the good folks in Scientology are only helping me get closer to "total freedom", without actually hurting my freedom, since 'freedom' is something that I don't currently have (direct consequence of accepting that there is such a thing as "bridge to total freedom") ... This entire proposition, as illogical as it is, seems to set up one of the emotional traps that precondition a person for accepting abusive environment, and eventually condoning irrational behavior.


Anyway,
Thank you again!!M

 

[degraded being]

I followed you up to here ... What does "blew" mean?
Did the OT spontaneously explode?
Did she just start screaming her head off ???
Or did she just run out on the street where she got tackled by a PT Cruiser ???

I'm not scientologist (have never been one, either) and find that it is sometimes difficult, almost impossible, to understand what simple words mean within the context of Scientology.

Thank you.

To "blow" means to leave suddenly. It is usually negative as in leave your job without usual leaving procedures. In "auditing" (counselling) it means the person left without completing a "session", without proper ending procedures which is considered a bad thing. So generally, to leave the area suddenly, usually because of being dissatisfied. A different meaning is when the "pc" "blows charge" meaning they (in theory) suddenly cause a lot of bad energy to disipate, in an "auditing session", but it can happen when a person is not being formally "auditied", sometimes by a person having a "cognition" (realization about self/life). This is usually considered a good thing.

 

[Gadfly]

Gadfly,
I enjoy your posts quite a lot!
You often provide large quantities of information, artfully mixed with considerable servings of tasty opinions and juicy thoughts!!!

And here you bring up the main reason that makes me visit this forum (I've been reading for months)

I've been trying to figure out why people, more often than not, willingly give up their freedoms and abolish reason when joining Scientology?

The notion of "bridge to total freedom" implies that at this moment I'm not 'free' since I haven't even seen that bridge. If I were to accept that the bridge exists then I must also consider that the good folks in Scientology are only helping me get closer to "total freedom", without actually hurting my freedom, since 'freedom' is something that I don't currently have (direct consequence of accepting that there is such a thing as "bridge to total freedom") ... This entire proposition, as illogical as it is, seems to set up one of the emotional traps that precondition a person for accepting abusive environment, and eventually condoning irrational behavior.

Anyway,
Thank you again!!M

In one regard, though obviously not all, Scientololgy is no different than any other "betterment" program in that the ONLY people who get attracted to such things, whether a self-help group, rehab center, or spiritual practice, are people who feel that something is wrong or missing in their lives and that such a group will help "solve that problem".

"Spiritual freedom" has been a MAJOR "button" for a certain segment of people all throughout history. Whether calling this "salvation", "enlightenment", "union with God" or "cosmic consciousness", certain people HAVE always been attracted to such subjects.

Also, "sacrifice", for whatever reason, has often been attached to the notion of "personal betterment and advancement". From the buddhist monk with a wooden bowl and who has given up all "earthly desires" to the crazed Christian zealot flagellating himself to help remind himself of the flaws of the "material body".

But, I think when it comes to "abolishing reason" and "abandoning freedoms" there is something more basic going on. It seems to me that too many people are happy to "give up freedom for security". THAT is the basic on all of this. This has happened in political and economic realms all throughout history. In Scientology, it is a combination of THAT while also having agreed with Hubbard's nutty delineation of Man's sorry state on Earth and in this Universe, and how and why ONLY SCIENTOLOGY can "properly address" and "handle this". See, people who BELIEVE things are how Hubbard describes them to be and who also BELIEVE that Scientology can "solve these problems", feel VERY SECURE about their choices here. They are "certain". They "believe". "Security" goes hand in hand with a high degree of "belief". It isn't necessarily "real security", but the believer often feels it once having "completely accepted the faith of my perfect path to salvation".

Part of it is that some "authority" (Hubbard) has "figured it all out" and has "handed the truth down" (like God did via Moses). This sets it up so that there are almost always viewpoints, Hubbard's and management's, that are "senior", "better" or "more valid" than YOURS. One learns to "sacrifice" one's personal viewpoint for Hubbard's and management's.

There is also the aspect of "putting aside personal concerns for a greater cause". There is no doubt that such things have occurred throughout history, and Hubbard set up Scientology to really HIT that button HARD. What does one put aside? Personal concerns, freedoms and even reason.

For example, in various forms of communism and fascism it is common to hear the slogan that "one works for the PARTY". The "party" is all, and the individual is nothing. Your value and worth are determined ONLY in how well you SERVE THE GROUP. The SAME aspect of "willingly give up their freedoms and abolishing reason" occurs in these too. I think that this behavior would need to be examined across ALL forms of totalitarianism, and I have only taken a quick cursory look here. There is no doubt that in Scientology the majority of any concepts of VALUE and WORTH (i.e. upstat, in-ethics) hinge on "contributing to Scientology". Didn't Hubbard say in KSW #1 that "it is the bank that makes the group all and the individual nothing"? Well, also, in Scientology, it is Hubbard's philosophy that makes group all and the individual nothing!

Also, there can be decent and worthwhile groups where it is not necessarily such a "bad thing" to give up a little "exaggerated personal attention" (ego, self-gratification, fixation on "me") and to work towards helping the group achieve its aims. Groups don't have to suck.

Lastly, the obliteration of "reason" occurs partially due to "cognitive dissonance". Once one has accepted ANY "package of beliefs" that tends toward inner contradictions and contradictions with reality, whether Stalin's communism, some form of fantaical Christianity or Scientology, the BELIEVER acts mentally to force ALL reality and ALL ideas to CONFORM with his package of beliefs. Reason gets left in the dust to enable "consistency" with the fixed ideas of the belief system.

A simply answer is that people give up freedom in certain ways because they believe, correctly or incorrectly, that in the end, it will "pay off". I doubt it ever does. Now, sacrificing some current "pleasures" or "desires" MAY result in a "better tomorrow". It depends though on the context, and Scientology is NOT one of them.

 

[Cervantes]

Initially I was also tempted to draw parallels between Scientology and other self-improvement groups. Eventually it became apparent that such cross comparisons are more distracting than helpful.

What is more interesting, at least to me, is to identify the central memes and the primary methodologies used by Scientology to indoctrinate people and take control of their lives.

Your point about "people are happy to give up freedom for security" rings true, but it is too generic and because of that it doesn't explain too much. I'm certain that this tendency to seek out security plays role, but it seems that people can be driven by other and sometimes equally powerful agendas. For instance 1) attain power over others, 2) deal with the fear of dying, 3) seek greater meaning to existence, 4) be a part of something greater than the self, … etc.

So I would like to stay concentrated squarely on Scientology and not involve other domains and other human endeavors. (at least until the central memes are established)
The promises of scientology and the implied 'truths' are setting up the memes that eventually 'infect' the brain and render the people apparently senseless to the craziness that they are taking a part of.

Can you help with the identification of those 'memes'?
This thread seems to touch on one of the main ones:
1) Attain Total Freedom
- freedom from sickness (primarily cold/flu …)
- freedom to completely control ones environment (perhaps, this is the power promise?!)
- freedom from things that aren't true to the self ('implants' which make you not free at the given moment. I apologize if I'm misusing the terms.)
- <some other freedoms>
2) The source
- the only source for becoming 'free' is hidden within Scientology
- the source makes no mistakes …
3) The others
- suppressive persons
- wogs who need help
- unable to help themselves (helpless)
4) Destiny
- being a savior for this portion of the galaxy (something greater than the self)
5) … other memes …

This is the type of information that I'm interested in because it helps me concentrate on paradigm as established by Scientology.
I don't have all of those 'memes' properly identified and even less so organized.
(In fact, I probably have none of them right … and that's why am asking here)

The "cognitive dissonance" is interesting point, but I believe it comes into play only after considerable indoctrination has taken place.

Thank you again!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Initially I was also tempted to draw parallels between Scientology and other self-improvement groups. Eventually it became apparent that such cross comparisons are more distracting than helpful.

What is more interesting, at least to me, is to identify the central memes and the primary methodologies used by Scientology to indoctrinate people and take control of their lives.

Your point about "people are happy to give up freedom for security" rings true, but it is too generic and because of that it doesn't explain too much. I'm certain that this tendency to seek out security plays role, but it seems that people can be driven by other and sometimes equally powerful agendas. For instance 1) attain power over others, 2) deal with the fear of dying, 3) seek greater meaning to existence, 4) be a part of something greater than the self, … etc.

So I would like to stay concentrated squarely on Scientology and not involve other domains and other human endeavors. (at least until the central memes are established)
The promises of scientology and the implied 'truths' are setting up the memes that eventually 'infect' the brain and render the people apparently senseless to the craziness that they are taking a part of.

Can you help with the identification of those 'memes'?
This thread seems to touch on one of the main ones:
1) Attain Total Freedom
- freedom from sickness (primarily cold/flu …)
- freedom to completely control ones environment (perhaps, this is the power promise?!)
- freedom from things that aren't true to the self ('implants' which make you not free at the given moment. I apologize if I'm misusing the terms.)
- <some other freedoms>
2) The source
- the only source for becoming 'free' is hidden within Scientology
- the source makes no mistakes …
3) The others
- suppressive persons
- wogs who need help
- unable to help themselves (helpless)
4) Destiny
- being a savior for this portion of the galaxy (something greater than the self)
5) … other memes …

This is the type of information that I'm interested in because it helps me concentrate on paradigm as established by Scientology.
I don't have all of those 'memes' properly identified and even less so organized.
(In fact, I probably have none of them right … and that's why am asking here)

The "cognitive dissonance" is interesting point, but I believe it comes into play only after considerable indoctrination has taken place.

Thank you again!

This might help...

Imagine that Scientology is not an answer, but instead a question.

Sit a person down and ask them 100 questions about what they love, hate, admire, desire, hope for, dream of.....

Encourage them to feel free to imagine terrible and wonderful things.

Then suggest that Scientology IS what they imagined.

Therefore, the memes are simply (and best) understood as what the Scientologist fears or desires.

In Scientology for every policy and piece of technology, there is an equal and opposite policy and piece of technology (Hubbard Law of Commotion). Thus, anyone trying to understand Scientology who mistakenly believes it is FOR or AGAINST anything is going to be very, very confused.

Scientology is not a subject with a fixed description or technology. Scientology is merely a palette of paint colors. Red for tech, green for policy and so forth... The "tech" of Scientology is to get the Scientologist to daydream using those colors.

Scientologists are FOR whatever it is that people are willing to pay to attain.

Scientologists are AGAINST whatever it is that people are willing to pay to avoid.

There are people in Scientology and Indie Scientology for decades who have no slightest idea about what I am explaining to you. Thus, as a non-Scientologist, you might mistakenly think that someone in Scientology (or out of it) for a long time might know more than you do about Scientology---a common error.

You can simply ask yourself what 3 wishes you would want if you had a magic lamp.

That is what Scientology is.

 

[NoName]

You know, I read the PTS/SP Course materials online, because I knew my friend was doing that course. I was trying to do the ultimate mind fuck of reading the course to learn how I should behave in order to not be perceived as an SP (reading the course materials is one of the lower levels on my Bridge to Total Suppression).

As a result of reading the damned course, I removed certain things from my vocabulary. For example, "They say..." is no longer part of my vocabulary. Not easy to remove from the vocabulary of a person who has spent a lot of time with the Navajos.

So last week, I'm out with my friend and we're talking about local restaurant reviews. Guess how he prefaced every restaurant review.

Yup.

 

[Sindy]

You know, I read the PTS/SP Course materials online, because I knew my friend was doing that course. I was trying to do the ultimate mind fuck of reading the course to learn how I should behave in order to not be perceived as an SP (reading the course materials is one of the lower levels on my Bridge to Total Suppression).

As a result of reading the damned course, I removed certain things from my vocabulary. For example, "They say..." is no longer part of my vocabulary. Not easy to remove from the vocabulary of a person who has spent a lot of time with the Navajos.

So last week, I'm out with my friend and we're talking about local restaurant reviews. Guess how he prefaced every restaurant review.

Yup.

So crazy, isn't it? Listen, you read the course to see how to behave so your friend wouldn't think you were an SP. That, to me, is THE total trap of Scientology - people policing themselves so they are not thought to be "bad", "out-ethics", "degraded beings", "anti-social", "evil-purposed", etc. There are plenty of names for the player who is not quite "with the program" and no one wants to be thought of as someone who is barring the door out of the trap for mankind. How evil can you be?

Think about that for a sec. Here's this guy that comes along, L. Ron Hubbard, a self-proclaimed genius, who commits to paper a series of attributes that people should now become keenly aware of or they may be in grave danger. He sounds so learned, so sure himself. Little did we know that he was insane. We buy into it and get others to do so as well.

The consequences of not being able to spot these characteristics are that one may never get out of the trap and will then continue to live in a nightmarish state for eternity.

No one wants to be thought to have those attributes either. The "SP" is the most vilified creature in all of Scientology. The images that are created of the SP are, if you think about it, rather satanic. The shattered face on the cover of the PTS/SP course pack could be the devil.

So, Scientologists introvert. They think before they speak. They choose their words wisely. They do all they can to appear full of theta and to appear uptone. They are on the look out for anti-social characteristics. They don't want to stain or soil their universes with the likes of those who may impede their forward progress up the Bridge to Nowhere.

They write KRs, even on their spouses and children. They will turn on a friend at the drop of a hat if not doing so will reflect poorly on them, showing them to be mutually out ruds with someone who wants to thwart man's only road out of hell.

Scientology is a mad illusion where death is all around and no one notices.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Noname & Synthia! - What a terrific couple of posts!

Very inspiring.. I'll just chip in with.. Did someone ask what a 'thetan' was? - Or was that in some other thread?

Nevermind..

The reason for inventing the word 'thetan' is to gain your acceptance to do mayhem to your mind and body!

In principle 'thetan' is a Voodoo doll.. A very old and well known form of hypnosis (or black magic). A Voodoo doll is 'usually' a material object that you are made to believe contain your soul... A 'thetan' is immaterial. It is not a physical doll, but it 'works' just the same.. In the following I'm going a bit 'scientolingo'ish insider speak:

Being an 'undying thetan' who lives forever is good, coz' then you don't die.. That's a relief! - A thetan is basically good and can't be damaged in any way.. Any damage is in the mind. Insanity is in the mind.. You are not your mind.. That's a relief!

Flipside is that a 'life' becomes expendable. Body is a piece of MEST without value and is expendable. Even your mind is not you.. Your mind is where all the insanity is.. Your mind is your enemy!

Being a thetan you don't really have a mom and dad.. The whole 'family' game is an appearence. Families are bad Genetic Entity 'GE' groups. Just a MEST machanism to produce bodies.

The intire MEST universe is a sort of practical joke that some thetans made once, out of (divine?) boredom.. They then became trapped in it. Got involved in games conditions and such.. The upshot is that the MEST universe is just a an agreed upon lie.. Useless really...

And thus you are disassociated from existence in all ways you knew! - In fact you are separated from yourself. Thinking you are a 'thetan'... Exterior or 'out of your mind'?

You are now suggestible!

Ready to have Hubturd tell you what reality is?

He will slander, degrade and vilify your mind and body. You will too! Hubturd get's you cooperating on this because your mind and body is not you. The 'real' you is a thetan. That spurious little thingie resembling an atomic nucleus with no wavelenght or location that Hubturd made you believe is you! - Hubturd will validate you as a thetan! - Ohh! Yes! - The one man in the worrlld who never thinks he's a thetan, is a thetan!

And the thetan is basically good! A thetan can't be an SP! - That's a relief!

Study this video closely!
Derren Brown "Voodoo"

 

[Sindy]

Noname & Synthia! - What a terrific couple of posts!

Very inspiring.. I'll just chip in with.. Did someone ask what a 'thetan' was? - Or was that in some other thread?

Nevermind..

The reason for inventing the word 'thetan' is to gain your acceptance to do mayhem to your mind and body!

In principle 'thetan' is a Voodoo doll.. A very old and well known form of hypnosis (or black magic). A Voodoo doll is 'usually' a material object that you are made to believe contain your soul... A 'thetan' is immaterial. It is not a physical doll, but it 'works' just the same.. In the following I'm going a bit 'scientolingo'ish insider speak:

Being an 'undying thetan' who lives forever is good, coz' then you don't die.. That's a relief! - A thetan is basically good and can't be damaged in any way.. Any damage is in the mind. Insanity is in the mind.. You are not your mind.. That's a relief!

Flipside is that a 'life' becomes expendable. Body is a piece of MEST without value and is expendable. Even your mind is not you.. Your mind is where all the insanity is.. Your mind is your enemy!

Being a thetan you don't really have a mom and dad.. The whole 'family' game is an appearence. Families are bad Genetic Entity 'GE' groups. Just a MEST machanism to produce bodies.

The intire MEST universe is a sort of practical joke that some thetans made once, out of (divine?) boredom.. They then became trapped in it. Got involved in games conditions and such.. The upshot is that the MEST universe is just a an agreed upon lie.. Useless really...

And thus you are disassociated from existence in all ways you knew! - In fact you are separated from yourself. Thinking you are a 'thetan'... Exterior or 'out of your mind'?

You are now suggestible!

Ready to have Hubturd tell you what reality is?

He will slander, degrade and vilify your mind and body. You will too! Hubturd get's you cooperating on this because your mind and body is not you. The 'real' you is a thetan. That spurious little thingie resembling an atomic nucleus with no wavelenght or location that Hubturd made you believe is you! - Hubturd will validate you as a thetan! - Ohh! Yes! - The one man in the worrlld who never thinks he's a thetan, is a thetan!

And the thetan is basically good! A thetan can't be an SP! - That's a relief!

Study this video closely!
Derren Brown "Voodoo"

Wow. Derren Brown freaks me out! I don't get how she can't move her legs when she never saw him doing anything re: legs until he turned around.

Man humans can be very suggestible! How does one totally proof oneself up against this? Seem Scientology was a grand experiment.

This is a great post Schwimmie. Have you ever seen this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg

Think about this one and what the Scientology events might be doing.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Wow. Derren Brown freaks me out! I don't get how she can't move her legs when she never saw him doing anything re: legs until he turned around.

Man humans can be very suggestible! How does one totally proof oneself up against this? Seem Scientology was a grand experiment.

Okay, okay, okay, okay....

My friend...please sit down.

Thank you. Are you comfortable there?

Cool.

As we all have found out (in life) there are many hoaxes that we are all susceptible to.

Humans are quite susceptible to being suggestible. Ain't it so?

Now this woman in the video was so suggestible, wasn't she?

But, we are not, right?

Hmmm....but what if she was an actress?

Damn, that would make us suggestible, wouldn't it?

SHIT! SHIT! SHIT! WHEN AM I GONNA LEARN?!

Click link at own peril. LOL

 

[Sindy]

Okay, okay, okay, okay....

My friend...please sit down.

Thank you. Are you comfortable there?

Cool.

As we all have found out (in life) there are many hoaxes that we are all susceptible to.

Humans are quite susceptible to being suggestible. Ain't it so?

Now this woman in the video was so suggestible, wasn't she?

But, we are not, right?

Hmmm....but what if she was an actress?

Damn, that would make us suggestible, wouldn't it?

SHIT! SHIT! SHIT! WHEN AM I GONNA LEARN?!

Click link at own peril. LOL

Well, I thought that too. I'm not completely suggestible. Or am I?

All kidding aside, I know this is his schtick but he can be pretty good at it. I guess we like to be entertained.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Well, I thought that too. I'm not completely suggestible. Or am I?

All kidding aside, I know this is his schtick but he can be pretty good at it. I guess we like to be entertained.

No baby, not you personally.

Pretty much the entire world is at the mercy of natural and man-made fogs that shroud the truth.

My God, I mean--what infinitesimally tiny nano-fraction of the knowledge of life do we actually have? There is so little known about it.

And complicating that are the gurus that purposely or delusionally make it much worse by pretending to know the answers. There are even gurus here on this message board who try to hoax others with faux knowledge and the ever-present (telltale) authoritative certitude. It's a joke! Maybe that's why Hubbard outlawed joking.

And Misvavich is another hoaxer, albeit a particularly stupid and violent one.

And Marty Rathbun is another hoaxer, whether he knows it or not, despite the great things he is doing to take down the CoS. I kinda think he is too smart not to know that the bridge is an utter scam. Or is cult indoctrination that blinding & paralyzing that such an otherwise, creative, intelligent and resourceful man can be reduced to monochromatic cult think and Tourette's-like cult babble.

And the list goes on and on, following the Yellow Brick Bridge all the way back to the Wizard of Cause himself--Hubbard.

My hobby is hoaxes, of all kinds--not just Scientology.

I particularly love love love the ones that I discover that I have been tricked into. It happens all the time in business, investing, romance, friendships, science, technology, health and just about every area of existence.

When I discovered I had been hexed, hoaxed & hubbardized, it did not make me cynical. It had the entirely opposite effect.

When I now discover something--or someone-- that is genuinely pure or beautiful--I quite rejoice-fully cherish that moment! Example? Kinda like discovering you as a friend.

 

[Sindy]

No baby, not you personally.

Pretty much the entire world is at the mercy of natural and man-made fogs that shroud the truth.

My God, I mean--what infinitesimally tiny nano-fraction of the knowledge of life do we actually have? There is so little known about it.

And complicating that are the gurus that purposely or delusionally make it much worse by pretending to know the answers. There are even gurus here on this message board who try to hoax others with faux knowledge and the ever-present (telltale) authoritative certitude. It's a joke! Maybe that's why Hubbard outlawed joking.

And Misvavich is another hoaxer, albeit a particularly stupid and violent one.

And Marty Rathbun is another hoaxer, whether he knows it or not, despite the great things he is doing to take down the CoS. I kinda think he is too smart not to know that the bridge is an utter scam. Or is cult indoctrination that blinding & paralyzing that such an otherwise, creative, intelligent and resourceful man can be reduced to monochromatic cult think and Tourette's-like cult babble.

And the list goes on and on, following the Yellow Brick Bridge all the way back to the Wizard of Cause himself--Hubbard.

My hobby is hoaxes, of all kinds--not just Scientology.

I particularly love love love the ones that I discover that I have been tricked into. It happens all the time in business, investing, romance, friendships, science, technology, health and just about every area of existence.

When I discovered I had been hexed, hoaxed & hubbardized, it did not make me cynical. It had the entirely opposite effect.

When I now discover something--or someone-- that is genuinely pure or beautiful--I quite rejoice-fully cherish that moment! Example? Kinda like discovering you as a friend.

I think I need to go to the examiner

Thank you, friend

I love this thread. Glad I started it.

 

[NoName]

So crazy, isn't it? Listen, you read the course to see how to behave so your friend wouldn't think you were an SP. That, to me, is THE total trap of Scientology - people policing themselves so they are not thought to be "bad", "out-ethics", "degraded beings", "anti-social", "evil-purposed", etc. There are plenty of names for the player who is not quite "with the program" and no one wants to be thought of as someone who is barring the door out of the trap for mankind. How evil can you be?

I have to say I sort of resent giving LRH some of the prime real estate between my ears. But if I know about a witch hunt, I'm going to take care to not be the witch, right?

Better yet, I'm going to read about the traits of the Clear and OT, and talk about how I have them. Again, that gives LRH more prime real estate, but I'm having fun. That, and I'm saving a life.

And yet, as I am doing this, I realize that I'm really showing myself to have antisocial traits. Not antisocial in the LRH sense - antisocial in the societal sense. I'm conforming to that which is socially desirable, in order to "pass" as someone who is socially desirable. Isn't that the definition of "antisocial"? (The real def - not LRH's).

So my Bridge to Total Suppression is now a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I guess what makes me good versus bad is my reason.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Being an 'undying thetan' who lives forever is good, coz' then you don't die.. That's a relief! - A thetan is basically good and can't be damaged in any way.. Any damage is in the mind. Insanity is in the mind.. You are not your mind.. That's a relief!

Flipside is that a 'life' becomes expendable. Body is a piece of MEST without value and is expendable. Even your mind is not you.. Your mind is where all the insanity is.. Your mind is your enemy!

Being a thetan you don't really have a mom and dad.. The whole 'family' game is an appearence. Families are bad Genetic Entity 'GE' groups. Just a MEST machanism to produce bodies.

The entire MEST universe is a sort of practical joke that some thetans made once, out of (divine?) boredom.. They then became trapped in it. Got involved in games conditions and such.. The upshot is that the MEST universe is just a an agreed upon lie.. Useless really...

And thus you are disassociated from existence in all ways you knew! - In fact you are separated from yourself. Thinking you are a 'thetan'... Exterior or 'out of your mind'?

I don't know that I agree whole heartedly with this. While I have seen and experienced it, that was not the basis of my life. While I have long accepted my self as a thetan, both in and now out of Scientology, I have a family, a life, a profession, I can help people and not live the negative atributes above. I think it is a path one can go down, but it is not the only path, just because one finds himself an immortal being.

Knowing that you are an immortal being should bring clairty to your life, not give you a justifyer to run roughshod over life and those around you and be a total shit.

There was another point, about being ethical for apperance sake.

That, to me, is THE total trap of Scientology - people policing themselves so they are not thought to be "bad", "out-ethics", "degraded beings", "anti-social", "evil-purposed", etc.

That I also take issue with. While I agree some do so, I don't feel self policing is inherently bad. You are presented with ethical and moral choices every day and you, whether you call it self policing or being ethical, or doing the right thing, you still have to make and live with, what is the best survival / ethical / moral decision you can. If you only do it for approval, then your basic ethics are in the toilet.

I really resented being put on a pedistal as an "OT" and to "set a good example". Screw all of the Hidden and Not So Hidden Standards you are supposed to uphold. I just wanted to be myself, warts and all.

Mimsey

 

[Sindy]

I don't know that I agree whole heartedly with this. While I have seen and experienced it, that was not the basis of my life. While I have long accepted my self as a thetan, both in and now out of Scientology, I have a family, a life, a profession, I can help people and not live the negative atributes above. I think it is a path one can go down, but it is not the only path, just because one finds himself an immortal being.

Knowing that you are an immortal being should bring clairty to your life, not give you a justifyer to run roughshod over life and those around you and be a total shit.

There was another point, about being ethical for apperance sake. That I also take issue with. While I agree some do so, I don't feel self policing is inherently bad. You are presented with ethical and moral choices every day and you, whether you call it self policing or being ethical, or doing the right thing, you still have to make and live with, what is the best survival / ethical / moral decision you can. If you only do it for approval, then your basic ethics are in the toilet.

I really resented being put on a pedistal as an "OT" and to "set a good example". Screw all of the Hidden and Not So Hidden Standards you are supposed to uphold. I just wanted to be myself, warts and all.

Mimsey

Anyone who is still in the C of S has their basic ethics in the toilet. ANYONE. I did too when I was still in. All the signs of rampant out ethics, from the top down, and the whole vulture culture, dwindling stats, etc. are there for ALL to see. They just rationalize it away and that's very unethical.

Also. you probably didn't mean this way but I do think self policing is inherently bad in the sense I was using it. The way I see it is that it is better to just be genuine. The way I was putting it above is what I consider is the reason all the people who are still stuck inside are still stuck inside. They're all being good boys and girls and not at all being genuine.

 

[Sindy]

I don't know that I agree whole heartedly with this. While I have seen and experienced it, that was not the basis of my life. While I have long accepted my self as a thetan, both in and now out of Scientology, I have a family, a life, a profession, I can help people and not live the negative atributes above. I think it is a path one can go down, but it is not the only path, just because one finds himself an immortal being.

Knowing that you are an immortal being should bring clairty to your life, not give you a justifyer to run roughshod over life and those around you and be a total shit.

There was another point, about being ethical for apperance sake. That I also take issue with. While I agree some do so, I don't feel self policing is inherently bad. You are presented with ethical and moral choices every day and you, whether you call it self policing or being ethical, or doing the right thing, you still have to make and live with, what is the best survival / ethical / moral decision you can. If you only do it for approval, then your basic ethics are in the toilet.

I really resented being put on a pedistal as an "OT" and to "set a good example". Screw all of the Hidden and Not So Hidden Standards you are supposed to uphold. I just wanted to be myself, warts and all.

Mimsey

I do acknowledge what you are saying here though. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. Thanks for your post.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Okay, okay, okay, okay....

My friend...please sit down.

Thank you. Are you comfortable there?

Cool.

As we all have found out (in life) there are many hoaxes that we are all susceptible to.

Humans are quite susceptible to being suggestible. Ain't it so?

Now this woman in the video was so suggestible, wasn't she?

But, we are not, right?

Hmmm....but what if she was an actress?

Damn, that would make us suggestible, wouldn't it?

SHIT! SHIT! SHIT! WHEN AM I GONNA LEARN?!

Click link at own peril. LOL

Hmm.. I'm disappointed in Derren Brown! - Really! - The damned Voodoo video was such an excellent demonstration of an important point.. Until Derren was exposed as a master hoaxter! - Or rather, a less skilled hoaxter than we thought he was.. After all.. I could put an actress under a Voodoo spell too!

But then he does say about his show: 'A mix of magic, deception, misdirection and showmanship.' - So he did tell us, didn't he?

Just like Hubbard did too..

Right.. I'm off to kick some innocent elderly ladies in the butt!