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My daughter is being indoctrinated into the cult

mark91942

Patron
Hello all,


I am new to this forum. My reason for being here is very personal and weighs heavy on my heart and soul. I have never been a Scientologist, but my x-wife, the mother of my daughter is a Scientologist. As for me I a prior active duty navy. I am now a reservist and I work for the Navy as a civilian contractor.


When I was dating my x-wife Scientology was explained to me as self help. After we were married my x-wife started to sound a bit more nuts than I could have imagined. She would expound the merits of the church and all that it had given her. Mind you. When I met her she was living in her friends closet after leaving the Sea Org. I suppose I always had some sort of savior complex, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I have been witness to many strange behaviors which I later found were common to two types of people. The first type of person is classified as a borderline personality disorder, the other is a Scientologist. I am not saying that all Scientologists have BPD or borderline personality disorder, but It does seem to fit that dis-associative type of disorder.


I did try my hardest to keep the marriage together, even as I saw her slipping away and back into the world of Scientology. I was still unprepared for what this cult could do with an indoctrinated person, who still felt there was value to their teachings. The more she returned to the world of Scientology the more I saw a completely different person. When we started dating, she was warm and caring. I was a bit more standoffish being bitten in previous relationships. We married due to a supposed pregnancy that I now believe never existed. (I will explain this in detail if there are questions about it in comments on this post.) I deployed shortly after we were married. I was not completely in love with her at this point in time and did not fall or lose my mind until much later. I say lose my mind because I am not sure if it was love or insanity of trying to live with someone who makes almost no sense, but whom you have invested entirely too much into to let go of.


11 months after we were married I returned from deployment and we actually became pregnant. I say we, because that is also when my mid section also began to expand. I suppose at some point I was actually fat and happy, or maybe just fat and blissful. Either way, I was at least OK with my life and the direction it was heading. At least that is what I thought at the time. Even at this point in time my x-wife had a propensity for spending money and supposedly not knowing where it went. I now know where it went. It went into the coffers of Scientology. After spending thousands of dollars on Scientology while I was deployed, the spending stopped for a short time when I returned from deployment, but did not stop completely.


After my daughter was born, my x-wife decided that she wanted to define her own life and since she had no respect for money she did this with impunity and disregard for our family. As I have learned in my studies of Scientology this seems to be the way the religion works. It seems to me that rational thought is thrown out the window and the irrational takes over completely. Rational thought seemed to slip away quite quickly, when it came to finances and when it came to being a mother. The x-wife would not put our daughter to bed, if it took more than a few minutes that was left up to me. The cooking, cleaning and taking care of our daughter was left up to me as well. I will admit that she did wake up at night with our daughter, but that was all she would do. On one of her days off as our daughter was 6 months old I came home after work to find a hole in the bedroom door. The x-wife had kicked the door because our 6 month old daughter had annoyed her. I was dumb founded. I asked what a 6 month old could do that would annoy her so much and she gave me an answer that shocked and dismayed me about my then wife's sanity. She relayed to me that our daughter was being a normal baby and crying. I think that was the point where I started to question everything. My x-wife left 13 months later.


After she left I attempted to become a Scientologist. I took the communications course. At the point when I took the communications course I had issues with blowing blood vessels in my left eye and could not stare into another persons eyes for any length of time without significant physical pain. I was then sent to see the ethics office or the principal as I referred to them. I felt like a child again, but was also amused that a physical malady would be such an issue for the church. I certainly was not the perfect person for Scientology. I have always questioned everything in life and Scientology was something I questioned quite harshly, especially with the experiences of the x-wife in mind. I found out that there was no clear by asking too many questions of the enrolling officer. It is also when I realized that I could not question Scientology. Due to my personality of questioning of everything I realized that Scientology was not for me. I did take the salvage your marriage course and found out that even according to Scientology my x-wife was in the wrong. Even with that I could not see myself going any further with Scientology.


The previous paragraphs were to explain some of the history about my interactions with Scientology. The next part is where my real fear about this cult comes into play.


I have added a few friends on facebook who have given me advice or attempted to give me advice on how to deal with my daughter being indoctrinated into the cult. I just found out two days ago at 6 years old she has already been hooked up to the e-meter. I cannot begin to explain how much this scares me.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Mark and thank you for coming here.

Scientology destroys families, crushes dreams, bankrupts and utterly ruins people financially. Very cleverly and very, very covertly.

I would fight to have your daughter taken away from her.

Make a stink so loud - they will tell her to give the daughter to you or she "can't have" Scientology.

It won't take much - but do make a lot of noise.

Scientology only has teeth if you believe. There is no science - it is a total scam. It shatters minds and destroys all life.

:hattip:

This said it all:

I have been witness to many strange behaviors which I later found were common to two types of people. The first type of person is classified as a borderline personality disorder, the other is a Scientologist.

:nervous::nervous::nervous::nervous::nervous::nervous::omg::omg::omg:

Scientology - the science of creating "crazy" since 1952
 

pebbles

Patron with Honors
Welcome- I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in. There are many here with excellent advice and tremendous knowledge.
Myself, I am a never in.

A quick word of advice- be very careful about giving identifying info (unless you don't care about the cult knowing your identity.)
One can mask time periods, occupations, locations etc to protect themselves. The edit button helps in hindsight.

The cult monitors these boards. JS.
Peace.
 

Leland

Crusader
Welcome....a telling story.

I loved the part about your X....living in a closet.....so true of many Cult members....that don't have money....I lived in a walk-in closet for awhile......

Of course....I've never heard of anyone BUT Scientologists .......Renting Out Closets to live in ........or unfinished Attic spaces....or Crawl Spaces in un-finished basements....

and I loved the part where you stated going to Ethics....was like being sent to the Principal.....

That is a first....I believe....of anyone describing that way......sooo funny...and true...

Yes, I you want to save your daughter.....you must fight for her in Family Court....
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I think that the most important thing you can do right now is just to be there for your daughter as her father. When she tells to you that she is uncomfortable with something that her mother is making her do, become her voice and speak up on her behalf. You won't have to do much. Eventually, when your daughter decides that she doesn't like Scientology, your wife will most likely choose the cult over her daughter and simply give your daughter to you.
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Welcome!

I was about your daughter's age when my parents joined staff and wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not sure if their personalities were such that if they didn't get into scientology, they would have been negligent anyway, who knows.

The problem is with children's courses is that they are seemingly harmless, but it starts the whole process. If you take the books, child Diabetics picture book to trained outside people who are not expert in cults, it will be viewed as odd perhaps, but not awful.

You don't mention, or maybe I missed this part, the relationship you have now with your daughter? Do you have contact at all?

Yes, there is the legal route, but personally I'd go for the disqualification route. As you probably know, people can be disqualified for services if they are connected to those in specific categories. Maybe you could call up and speak to the DSA (Director of Special Affairs) and say the reason you were away for so long when in the Navy was because actually, and whisper this, you are CIA. Believe me, your daughter will be kicked off any services. :eyeroll:
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome!

I was about your daughter's age when my parents joined staff and wouldn't wish this on anyone. Not sure if their personalities were such that if they didn't get into scientology, they would have been negligent anyway, who knows.

The problem is with children's courses is that they are seemingly harmless, but it starts the whole process. If you take the books, child Diabetics picture book to trained outside people who are not expert in cults, it will be viewed as odd perhaps, but not awful.

You don't mention, or maybe I missed this part, the relationship you have now with your daughter? Do you have contact at all?

Yes, there is the legal route, but personally I'd go for the disqualification route. As you probably know, people can be disqualified for services if they are connected to those in specific categories. Maybe you could call up and speak to the DSA (Director of Special Affairs) and say the reason you were away for so long when in the Navy was because actually, and whisper this, you are CIA. Believe me, your daughter will be kicked off any services. :eyeroll:


Yes!

Everything.

Ever. Ry. Thing.

Everything in this fucking cult is part of the trap. Even the innocuous stuff. Even the beneficial stuff. It's ALL designed to lead you into Laffy's preferred state of mind. We see this with everyone coming out - small habits of thought, from pro-Vitamin stances to conspiracy theories - all of it was inculcated by the deliberate irrationalism of the indoctrination process and those subtle habits of though persist for so long and are so pernicious - better to never have touched this crap at all.

If you are former Navy, then you know all about the main inter-service rivalries. None of the Navy Intel folks I know have ANY use for the HUMINT Agency. I think a more plausible route is to tell them you have been loaned or were loaned to No Such Agency. I don't know your rating or MOS, and I DO NOT WANT TO! But I know of several 1734s and 1737s (and 290As) who did a stint in the NSA. It's plausible, and if you had anything to do with commo, it's actually likely you rubbed shoulders with the NSA.

You could actually be belligerent about it - go into the org and demand just what the FUCK is going on, because one of your contracts is being held up because the NSA is investigating your links to that org. Ask them just what the fuck they are doing that ran afoul of the US Intelligence community.

I think you can fake that pretty convincingly, and it will make your daughter (and ex-wife!) an illegal PC. I'm not sure if the ex-wife can get out of it, having divorced you, but I don't think the kid ever can. There are some illegal PCs on this board in exactly that situation, but I'll let them chime in if they want to.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I agree with the advice given earlier in this thread.

The worst thing you can do is to "just go along". You wife sounds like a mental case, and for the health of your daughter you should immediately contact a good divorce/custody lawyer, and see what your options are.

One thing OSA would likely want to avoid, would be a legal battle, even if minor. I don't think they have the funds any more to just throw lawyers at any issue. They will want to avoid bad PR and legal discovery actions.

Go for sole custody of the kid. Be prepared to spend money that you do not have.

On the subject of money, take immediate steps to ensure that she doesn't suck all your assets out and put them in Scientology. Immediately (today) find out if, in your state, you are liable for any debts or loans your wife takes out.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
One more thing: one of OSA's favorite tricks is to anonymously send negative information about a target to his boss, clients, customers, everybody connected to him. You should notify your boss that you are about to get into a custody battle with your wife, that she is a Scientologist, and that Scn may try to attack you through anonymous character assassination.

Get your boss and your employer's HR on your side ahead of any possible attempts.
 

IVisitor

Patron
Wow, mark91942,

I didn't realize, you were that new to the board, when I met you in the chat.
I was assuming you were much more seasoned here than me.
As I'm rather new here myself.

Welcome.

Yes Scientology is not really, what it would like people to think about it.

It sells truth, but delivers lies and works to make its adherents into liars too,
it sell care, but delivers blame,
it sells resposibility but delivers total irresponsibility,
it sells "think for yourself", but delivers total thought control,
it sells freedom, but delivers a brand of slavery (perhaps more literally, than some may realize),
it sells help but delivers betrayal.
The "help" you may get there is basically just a bait.

I'm looking forward to your second post about the current issues of the problem.
As I understand, your first post was basically the background history.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
In general:

If your efforts can be interpreted by the church to be hostile to Scientology or the church then you can expect some kind of Suppressive Person or Disconnection order. These used to be like public declarations but due to so much bad PR they may treat it more under the table, just amongst dedicated members and staff, etc. If they discover you are here, associating with people who have been formally declared Suppressive Persons it is very likely.

If any conflict can be purely interpreted as a domestic or custody dispute then they may not make a formal determination and if your Ex is not on staff then they may want to keep arms length. It might be more like a personal instruct to your Ex on how to handle you.

If you can be defined as a legal threat to the COS as others have mentioned, then this could limit your Ex and daughter's involvement or services but I would think this through very carefully as it could have unintended consequences.

Custody cases probably will not make a determination simply out of the fact that the COS is involved even though their abuses are becoming more well known. More likely it would be based on specific abuse or neglect, what is in the best interest of the child, and upon the recommendations of a child psychologist. Do not do anything that would prejudice your case in a psychological review.

Minimally, you are going to need court ordered visitation rights. Maintaining access to your daughter is the most important thing to provide balance. Make sure there are no restrictions on your legal ability to discuss Scientology with her or to expose her to things which run counter to Scientology doctrine. Even if you do not win primary custody, your daughter may become very unhappy with the influence of Scientology over time and want to live with you or demand emancipation. Scientology is very controlling and a lot of kids rebel against it.

Change your will and trust to include provisions to prevent the COS from gaining access to assets through your daughter.

I'm not an attorney.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Mark, to avoid having the church figure out who you are, you would do you well to have a moderator edit out your personal details, career, and maybe have you change your nic name if your first name is really Mark.

Down at the bottom of your original post, you can find a red triangle, which if you click it, it will take you to a page where you can write and ask that specific details be removed. Before yo do this, review your message and then note the details of what you want removed.

You can also ask if you can change your nic name, providing the mods with an alternative name. I am not sure you can change it this way but they will explain by private message or in a message in the thread back to you on how to do this.

These people are sneaky. If you are concerned about them finding out you are discussing your situation on the internet ( causing possible disconnection problems for you and her ) do correct the matter this way.

Best wishes,

Mary McConnell
 

Northern Shewolf

Patron Meritorious
Above all be careful so you can acheive full physical custody of your child.
Keep a low profile, have a few good back-up plans...just in case, and know that all of us on this board are pulling for you!
WELCOME!:yes:
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mark, to avoid having the church figure out who you are, you would do you well to have a moderator edit out your personal details, career, and maybe have you change your nic name if your first name is really Mark.

Down at the bottom of your original post, you can find a red triangle, which if you click it, it will take you to a page where you can write and ask that specific details be removed. Before yo do this, review your message and then note the details of what you want removed.

You can also ask if you can change your nic name, providing the mods with an alternative name. I am not sure you can change it this way but they will explain by private message or in a message in the thread back to you on how to do this.

These people are sneaky. If you are concerned about them finding out you are discussing your situation on the internet ( causing possible disconnection problems for you and her ) do correct the matter this way.

Best wishes,

Mary McConnell

Sound advice.

If this is something that could potentially involve a court case it would be a good idea to discuss with your attorney the possibilities and ramifications of having any forum content subject to subpoena or deposition, etc.
 

Gib

Crusader
Hello all,


I am new to this forum. My reason for being here is very personal and weighs heavy on my heart and soul. I have never been a Scientologist, but my x-wife, the mother of my daughter is a Scientologist. As for me I a prior active duty navy. I am now a reservist and I work for the Navy as a civilian contractor.


When I was dating my x-wife Scientology was explained to me as self help. After we were married my x-wife started to sound a bit more nuts than I could have imagined. She would expound the merits of the church and all that it had given her. Mind you. When I met her she was living in her friends closet after leaving the Sea Org. I suppose I always had some sort of savior complex, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I have been witness to many strange behaviors which I later found were common to two types of people. The first type of person is classified as a borderline personality disorder, the other is a Scientologist. I am not saying that all Scientologists have BPD or borderline personality disorder, but It does seem to fit that dis-associative type of disorder.


I did try my hardest to keep the marriage together, even as I saw her slipping away and back into the world of Scientology. I was still unprepared for what this cult could do with an indoctrinated person, who still felt there was value to their teachings. The more she returned to the world of Scientology the more I saw a completely different person. When we started dating, she was warm and caring. I was a bit more standoffish being bitten in previous relationships. We married due to a supposed pregnancy that I now believe never existed. (I will explain this in detail if there are questions about it in comments on this post.) I deployed shortly after we were married. I was not completely in love with her at this point in time and did not fall or lose my mind until much later. I say lose my mind because I am not sure if it was love or insanity of trying to live with someone who makes almost no sense, but whom you have invested entirely too much into to let go of.


11 months after we were married I returned from deployment and we actually became pregnant. I say we, because that is also when my mid section also began to expand. I suppose at some point I was actually fat and happy, or maybe just fat and blissful. Either way, I was at least OK with my life and the direction it was heading. At least that is what I thought at the time. Even at this point in time my x-wife had a propensity for spending money and supposedly not knowing where it went. I now know where it went. It went into the coffers of Scientology. After spending thousands of dollars on Scientology while I was deployed, the spending stopped for a short time when I returned from deployment, but did not stop completely.


After my daughter was born, my x-wife decided that she wanted to define her own life and since she had no respect for money she did this with impunity and disregard for our family. As I have learned in my studies of Scientology this seems to be the way the religion works. It seems to me that rational thought is thrown out the window and the irrational takes over completely. Rational thought seemed to slip away quite quickly, when it came to finances and when it came to being a mother. The x-wife would not put our daughter to bed, if it took more than a few minutes that was left up to me. The cooking, cleaning and taking care of our daughter was left up to me as well. I will admit that she did wake up at night with our daughter, but that was all she would do. On one of her days off as our daughter was 6 months old I came home after work to find a hole in the bedroom door. The x-wife had kicked the door because our 6 month old daughter had annoyed her. I was dumb founded. I asked what a 6 month old could do that would annoy her so much and she gave me an answer that shocked and dismayed me about my then wife's sanity. She relayed to me that our daughter was being a normal baby and crying. I think that was the point where I started to question everything. My x-wife left 13 months later.


After she left I attempted to become a Scientologist. I took the communications course. At the point when I took the communications course I had issues with blowing blood vessels in my left eye and could not stare into another persons eyes for any length of time without significant physical pain. I was then sent to see the ethics office or the principal as I referred to them. I felt like a child again, but was also amused that a physical malady would be such an issue for the church. I certainly was not the perfect person for Scientology. I have always questioned everything in life and Scientology was something I questioned quite harshly, especially with the experiences of the x-wife in mind. I found out that there was no clear by asking too many questions of the enrolling officer. It is also when I realized that I could not question Scientology. Due to my personality of questioning of everything I realized that Scientology was not for me. I did take the salvage your marriage course and found out that even according to Scientology my x-wife was in the wrong. Even with that I could not see myself going any further with Scientology.


The previous paragraphs were to explain some of the history about my interactions with Scientology. The next part is where my real fear about this cult comes into play.


I have added a few friends on facebook who have given me advice or attempted to give me advice on how to deal with my daughter being indoctrinated into the cult. I just found out two days ago at 6 years old she has already been hooked up to the e-meter. I cannot begin to explain how much this scares me.

My advice, I'd do a two prong approach. Get your ducks lined up legally by consulting a lawyer about custody, and I'd use the questioning approach while seeking the legal route.

Since you questioned scientology from the get go :thumbsup:, why not use that ability to ask non threatening questions of your ex wife.

I think these postings by Tony Oretga deserve more attention by the media and folks here. They reveal a lot on the questioning front for people in your shoes, and even people still underground.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/20/he...l-about-stalking-ron-miscavige-sr/#more-21995

http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/08/le...es-watching-his-father-say-police/#more-21658

http://tonyortega.org/2012/11/29/scientologys-master-spies/

All those stories beg the question, or versions of simple questions to ask a scientology member, why would the COS hire PI's to follow ex members? What are the afraid of? (and you MUST NOT tell the person the reason why, you got's to let me them talk)

One just needs to ask the questions, and not reply but play stupid, and let it stew, you might say. :confused2:

All the while your legal advice is taken into consideration.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
If you go the legal route, get a child custody evaluator on board. They're usually psychologists and I think the x will give up before seeing one of those. At the very least, it could make your kid an illegal PC.
 
The problem with going and having a mod fix your info is that it's too late. They already have it. They monitor this site.

You need to talk to an attorney who specializes in custody cases. They can tell you what's what. I don't think trying to get your daughter listed as an illegal pc will fly, as posted earlier. That's a lot of wishful thinking and it will work against you if it came up in a custody battle.

Get smart. Talk to a lawyer.

Mimsey
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you go the legal route, get a child custody evaluator on board. They're usually psychologists and I think the x will give up before seeing one of those. At the very least, it could make your kid an illegal PC.

Courts depend heavily upon psychologist's evaluations in custody disputes. The COS will absolutely not punish any staff or member for cooperating with a court ordered evaluation.
 
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Random guy

Patron with Honors
Mark, to avoid having the church figure out who you are, you would do you well to have a moderator edit out your personal details, career, and maybe have you change your nic name if your first name is really Mark.

This can not be emphasized enough. Unless the CoS already know who you are, your anonymity is your best at the moment. Do not squander it.

Enthetan suggested pre-emptively contacting a lawyer and warning your boss and other relevant parties that you are heading for a confrontation with the cult. I strongly suggest you follow his advice. As an old soldier, I'm sure you know the phrase Si vis pacem, para bellum. Do not assume they will play nice. The cult is always worse than you think.

Contact the bank and make sure your X-wife cannot hamstring you by draining your accounts. Put up a system of accounts where you are sure she can not withdraw college-funds without your consent.

Outside of economy, all their "tech" are just mind games. They work by isolating and intimidating their perceived enemies. Do not let that happen to you. Thanks to the Internet, you can always find someone to talk to about this, even if anonymously.

Do not let them goad you into silence, sunshine is the best disinfectant. Get yourself a cheap camcorder or a mobile phone with video option. Carry it with you always. Be prepared.

Good luck.
 
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Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
This can not be emphasized enough. Unless the CoS already know who you are, your anonymity is your best at the moment. Do not squander it.

Enthetan suggested pre-emptively contacting a lawyer and warning your boss and other relevant parties that you are heading for a confrontation with the cult. I strongly suggest you follow his advice. As an old soldier, I'm sure you know the phrase Si vis pacem, para bellum. Do not assume they will play nice. The cult is always worse than you think.

Contact the bank and make sure your X-wife cannot hamstring you by draining your accounts. Put up a system of accounts where you are sure she can not withdraw college-funds without your consent.

Outside of economy, all their "tech" are just mind games. They work by isolating and intimidating their perceived enemies. Do not let that happen to you. Thanks to the Internet, you can always find someone to talk to about this, even if anonymously.

Do not let them goad you into silence, sunshine is the best disinfectant. Get yourself a cheap camcorder or a mobile phone with video option. Carry it with you always. Be prepared.

Good luck.

I am going to throw this out there - Threats are the only thing that work in Scientology. Call the Org and tell them that you saw "Going Clear" and are contacting all of the media outlets to tell them how Scientology shattered your family....

When I was in - the Org's attitude was "no entheta" - NONE. I know a guy who made a stink about his ex wifes involvement - came to the Org - made a lot of noise - and whallla - she was GONE. (staff member)

The Tech they use is "Handle or Disconnect" - so use the tech.

Threats work nicely with Scientology - nothing else does.

Force her to give you the girl (full custody) or you will fuck with her freedom (getting her kicked out of Scientology).

Play hard ball....you have to.

You are dealing with an evil cult that destroys lives in the name of help and hides behind its religious cloak.


She is your daughter....so maybe letting the Org know WHO you are is the key.....let them know you are going to picket and go to the media.

You could also demand that your wife remove your daughter from all Scientology courses and services until she watches "Going Clear" WITH YOU. If she watches it with you - then tell her you would consider it. (then consider it and tell her NO - you will sue her in court and make her life miserable if she ever brings her daughter to a Scientology building again)

You will destroy her game and seeing "Going Clear" could give her pnemonia or make her ill (the truth tends to to that when in deep denial) - but it may help you get your daughter out.
 
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