Pedophilia in Scientology

[Veda]

Hubbard had contempt for what he called "wog morality," and held the view that "wog" ("homo sap") conscience is an impediment and needs to be "erased."

The contempt for "wog" morality and conscience is at the core of the secretive subject of Scientology.​

______________​

Scientology Founder L. Ron Hubbard says a seven-year-old girl should see nothing wrong with being passionately kissed.

From Tony Ortega.

http://tonyortega.org/2016/05/09/66...stantiated-from-pulp-writer-to-god-among-men/

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Anyway, on this anniversary, we wanted to admit to having let you all down. During our blog series on Dianetics, we managed to pull out a lot of amazing material with Vance, but somehow, we glossed over one passage that really does deserve to get some attention. It comes later in the book when, we will admit, we were pretty sick of what we were reading and were maybe not so careful to pick up every disgusting thing Hubbard was foisting on his readers. So, we regret to say, we failed to highlight the following passage, which occurs on page 336 of our 1950 first edition hardback of the book, in the chapter “Mechanisms and Aspects of Therapy”…

​

There are two axioms about mind function with which the auditor should be familiar…The first axiom is of interest to the auditor in his work because with it he can clearly establish whether or not he is confronting a rational reaction. The seven-year-old girl who shudders because a man kisses her is not computing; she is reacting to an engram since at seven she should see nothing wrong in a kiss, not even a passionate one. There must have been an earlier experience, possibly prenatal, which made men or kissing very bad.​

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The audio of Hubbard ridiculing the idea that anyone would be outraged by a grown man having sexual relations with a little boy can be heard at 1:37 to 1:55:

This man made himself the "Commodore" of a floating cult within a cult and surrounded himself with 13 year old girls who functioned as absolute servants and literal extensions of his "Command Intention."

What could go wrong?​

 

[EZ Linus]

I had an odd, sort of "fringe" connection to Scientology in the beginning. I was 12 and hadn't really been properly on course until I was 15. I devoured all the books, as did the group of us that were "pseudo-Scientologists," all of which were much older than me, and 99% were boys. One of the older ones, at 18, messed with me for over a year. I say "messed with me. It is still hard to call it rape. These were the incidents I had to get off as a big bad overts in a sec-check later on before doing my Grades.

At 16, I worked for an all Scientology company. I worked with a 42-year-old man who was engaged to a 13 year-old girl. No one thought it was odd. My friend, whose parents company it was, she was not yet 15. She was sleeping with a 39-year-old guy who rented a room in the house and her parents knew. They were fine about it.

Later that year (still 16), I worked as an assistant for a high profile Scientologist, 46-years-old. I spent most days fighting him off of me, running around the coffee table in his living room. I finally quit the day he was able to pin me down on his floor, slobbering all over me. I slugged him in the face. It was more a mutual parting of ways. He was an OT VII.

Older men with under age girls and children were the norm it seemed.

 

[TomKat]

This is just a hit piece. Nothing is off the table when digging in the subconscious. Maybe you should go after Freud while you're at it: oedipus and electra complexes...

 

[Type4_PTS]

This is just a hit piece. Nothing is off the table when digging in the subconscious. Maybe you should go after Freud while you're at it: oedipus and electra complexes...

What exactly are you referring to as being a "hit piece"?

 

[TomKat]

What exactly are you referring to as being a "hit piece"?

The video was carefully crafted to make Hubbard look like a pedophile (and everyone who studied auditing an enabler). He was making a valid point about the subconscious desires and hypocrisy behind self-righteous behavior. All preceded by a Nibs diatribe that not once accused his father of pedophilia...

It's a shame so many people left college to join Scientology, and never gained the tools to identify propaganda such as this.

 

[Veda]

The video was carefully crafted to make Hubbard look like a pedophile
-snip-

Do you think it was OK that Hubbard used young girls the way he did?

Why did he decide, at the age of 56, that he wanted to be serviced by an especially trained and obedient group of young girls?

Wasn't that a sign that there was something terribly wrong?

 

[EZ Linus]

This is just a hit piece. Nothing is off the table when digging in the subconscious. Maybe you should go after Freud while you're at it: oedipus and electra complexes...

Freud may have laid a foundation for psychotherapy, but many of his theories have been widely debated and discarded. People have already "gone after" him, so I don't need to.

This thing about the Hubbard quote in DIANETICS can't be a "hit piece." Tell me what else, or why he'd feel the need to pblish this text. This example was not an oversight and he is clearly justifying something of himself, not little girls.

 

[TomKat]

Do you think it was OK that Hubbard used young girls the way he did?

Why did he decide, at the age of 56, that he wanted to be serviced by an especially trained and obedient group of young girls?

Wasn't that a sign that there was something terribly wrong?

I think you are stretching so hard to make him a pedophile that you need to examine your own desires in that area.

 

[Enthetan]

At 16, I worked for an all Scientology company. I worked with a 42-year-old man who was engaged to a 13 year-old girl. No one thought it was odd. My friend, whose parents company it was, she was not yet 15. She was sleeping with a 39-year-old guy who rented a room in the house and her parents knew. They were fine about it.

Later that year (still 16), I worked as an assistant for a high profile Scientologist, 46-years-old. I spent most days fighting him off of me, running around the coffee table in his living room. I finally quit the day he was able to pin me down on his floor, slobbering all over me. I slugged him in the face. It was more a mutual parting of ways. He was an OT VII.

Older men with under age girls and children were the norm it seemed.

There are times when I think Scientology management liked the idea of having stuff on people, which they would ignore as long as the person was busily contributing to Scientology, but where they could report them and get them jailed if they at any time displeased the powers-that-be.

 

[TomKat]

Freud may have laid a foundation for psychotherapy, but many of his theories have been widely debated and discarded. People have already "gone after" him, so I don't need to.

This thing about the Hubbard quote in DIANETICS can't be a "hit piece." Tell me what else, or why he'd feel the need to pblish this text. This example was not an oversight and he is clearly justifying something of himself, not little girls.

He was merely saying that a child is too young to have a positive or negative opinion about this, so it had to be a reaction from an engram. I disagree. But that doesn't make him a pedophile. If you had finished college you would understand that psychologists consider a child to be a blank slate requiring socialization from the family and environment to have opinions. Hubbard at that stage believed the engram was at the root of everything, just as Freud thought sex was at the root of everything. I think he greatly underestimated how much and how fast a child can soak up the feelings of others.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

In practice, pedophilia in Scientology is not as unethical as would be reporting the sexual predators to the authorities for prosecution.

Causing bad PR for Scientology is always considered the higher crime. Covering up criminal activity by Scientologists in good standing, including by sexual predators, has been standard practice.


As soon as this type of criminal activity is reported to Ethics and/or OSA it is made clear to all parties involved to NOT discuss this whatsoever with other Scientologists. Those who DO would likely be placed under a "non-enturbulation order", which threatens them with an SP Declare should they continue to communicate about the incident with those who don't need to know.

Your "database" would NOT include all incidents that occurred with members and staff of the CLIV orgs.

All right Pitsy

In practice, pedophilia in Scientology is not as unethical as would be reporting the sexual predators to the authorities for prosecution.

Causing bad PR for Scientology is always considered the higher crime. Covering up criminal activity by Scientologists in good standing, including by sexual predators, has been standard practice.


As soon as this type of criminal activity is reported to Ethics and/or OSA it is made clear to all parties involved to NOT discuss this whatsoever with other Scientologists. Those who DO would likely be placed under a "non-enturbulation order", which threatens them with an SP Declare should they continue to communicate about the incident with those who don't need to know.

Your "database" would NOT include all incidents that occurred with members and staff of the CLIV orgs.

"Keeping it in the family" is not categorically condemned.

No. I do not have total data.

My database is goddam well large enough to for me to say DON'T PAINT IT WITH

GENERALITIES!!!

based on HEARSAY

Capische?

 

[Veda]

I think you are stretching so hard to make him a pedophile that you need to examine your own desires in that area.

"Introvert them like a bullet" only works in a cult environment.

With your virtually unlimited capacity to rationalize away abuse, you would have fit in well with the Children of God cult circa 1980.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The video was carefully crafted to make Hubbard look like a pedophile (and everyone who studied auditing an enabler). He was making a valid point about the subconscious desires and hypocrisy behind self-righteous behavior. All preceded by a Nibs diatribe that not once accused his father of pedophilia...

It's a shame so many people left college to join Scientology, and never gained the tools to identify propaganda such as this.

SOS has some nifty tools for such.

 

[TomKat]

"Introvert them like a bullet" only works in a cult environment.

With your virtually unlimited capacity to rationalize away abuse, you would have fit in well with the Children of God cult circa 1980.

Kum bay ya my lord, kum bay ya

 

[EZ Linus]

If you had finished college you would understand that psychologists consider a child to be a blank slate requiring socialization from the family and environment to have opinions.

What the??? What a grossly patronizing and idiotic assumption. If you stopped being a know it all, you'd drop your apologist attitude toward someone who harmed people (at least generally), and stop thinking you know things about other people that you do not.

 

[guanoloco]

He was merely saying that a child is too young to have a positive or negative opinion about this, so it had to be a reaction from an engram. I disagree. But that doesn't make him a pedophile. If you had finished college you would understand that psychologists consider a child to be a blank slate requiring socialization from the family and environment to have opinions. Hubbard at that stage believed the engram was at the root of everything, just as Freud thought sex was at the root of everything. I think he greatly underestimated how much and how fast a child can soak up the feelings of others.

Children know the difference between right and wrong. I think they have a better moral compass than adults. I disagree with Hubbard as well. A child would be alarmed by this activity which has nothing to do with engrams .

Have a discussion with a child about gender. There are only two genders which are directly tied to sex. Ask any child.

 

[guanoloco]

Here's what I mean and these kids are even older than I was thinking.

So much for the oppressive patriarchy and toxic masculinity.

 

[EZ Linus]

Children know the difference between right and wrong. I think they have a better moral compass than adults. I disagree with Hubbard as well. A child would be alarmed by this activity which has nothing to do with engrams .

Have a discussion with a child about gender. There are only two genders which are directly tied to sex. Ask any child.

I agree with you here that a child knows, a child who's been healthily nurtured so far would. I think even a child that hasn't had too much bonding with her family may be alarmed as well, and I think both of these backgrounds would have to do with her sense of trust. She would know. It would have nothing to do with engrams, but perhaps it's in our genetic make up to know what feels right from wrong. Early childhood sexual trauma can sometimes be forgotten and buried, but still leave body memories years later. It's a fact.

As for gender, yes. A child absolutely has a sense of gender early on, but this has nothing to so with sex yet. This isn't connected with sexual attraction.

Another thing is that there are not only two genders. Chromosomes are funny that way. Some people are born with a mixture, some people are born with both genitalia, or none, or some. It's only a Western idea to assign a gender (one or the other) when this happens and start immediate surgeries -- usually multiple ones, sometimes up until the child is nearly a teenager.

 

[TomKat]

What the??? What a grossly patronizing and idiotic assumption. If you stopped being a know it all, you'd drop your apologist attitude toward someone who harmed people (at least generally), and stop thinking you know things about other people that you do not.

I agree. But it's an assumption I make when someone can't differentiate between an intellectual, scientific-minded discussion and morality. Just as you can't seem to differentiate between an interpretation of what someone wrote and what they later did in their life to harm others. So, is it safe to assume you're a college drop-out too?

 

[EZ Linus]

I agree. But it's an assumption I make when someone can't differentiate between an intellectual, scientific-minded discussion and morality. Just as you can't seem to differentiate between an interpretation of what someone wrote and what they later did in their life to harm others. So, is it safe to assume you're a college drop-out too?

I think it's you who either dropped out, or didn't pay attention, or read, if you took any psychology classes. It's you that can't differentiate bias. You'd also make a bad detective, had you taken the blue-collar route. Evidence shows that he was harming people well before he published Dianetics, and as he ran it on others. All throughout his life, he justified social, moral, scientific, psychological, and every other thing he went against to push his agenda--all made up fantasy, opinion, and knowing lies. You are trying to differentiate between those lies and some semblance of truth between the written lines, and it is all unknowable. No one knows for sure what Hubbard really thought anything, not really.

All of the above has jack to do with morals, Dr. scientist. And you know NOTHING about my education. Who cares anyway? Do I need my doctorate to participate in this thread? Can you please scan your Ph.D, or Masters certificate and post it on the forum? I'd like to see your CV as well please.